Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Achamian
Right now I want to include 3 Thalia into my mainboard, to better fight TES (lost in today's final against it :( ), Sneakshow, Reanimate, Belcher and other combo decks.
I'm just not sure whether 21 lands are enough to support a splash AND Rishadan Port.
Currently I'm playing this list:
4 Lackey
4 Warchief
4 Matrone
4 Ringleader
4 Vial
3 Chieftain
3 Piledriver
2 Krenko
1 Stingscourger
3 Incinerator
1 Goblin Tinkerer
4 Tarfire
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
11 Mountains
4 Wasteland
2 Port
4 Cavern of Souls
I think of cutting 1 Pyrokinesis, 1 Piledriver and maybe 1 Tinkerer for 3 Thalias and 6 Mountains for 4 fetch lands and 2 Plateaus (14 possibilities to cast Thalia, then, inculding Vial and Cavern of Souls).
Do you guys think I need to cut Ports if I want to play the splash? Or which changes would you recommend?
I played the white splash with this manabase:
4 caverns
4 wastelands
3 plateau
6 fetches
4 mountains
I strongly suggest you to try this out because after a lot of testing it seemed to be the right numbers. You could cut one plateau and add one fetch tho. I don t suggest you to go lower than 9 white sources.
You can easily cut ports, thalia does what ports do but way better. Thalia is able to slow your opponent down (like rishadan ports) while applying pressure to his life total.
Because of her you can give up playing ports, you can play more coloured mana sources to a put faster clock and to cast more reliably RR goblins and gempalm.
If I were you I would keep only aether vial as non creature card in a thalia list.
I would do:
- 4 tarfire
- 2 pyrokinesis
+ 3 thalia
+ 1 gempalm
+ 2 (some other goblin, in my list they were 1 PD and 1 MWM)
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
@LPEuler: against maverick cursed totem is probably the best SB card there is. If you think u are going to face a lot of maverick put 2 totems in SB and you will not regret it.
I think that the most problematic cards they have are equipments. If they have an equipment you don t have an answer for they ll problably win, otherwise you are favoured. So artifact hate is very important here. Pyrokinesis helps a lot but I still think that artifact hate is more important. A combination of artifact hate + cursed totem/pyrokinesis makes it easier. Pithing needle is a less extreme piece of hate in place of cursed totem and works fine against them.
Be carefull not to get mana screwed by wasteland + knight lock.
@all: i find myself in awkward situations when I need to SB. I am always uncertain whether I need to side out some ringleaders or other goblins. Is there a threshold value of goblins in the deck that justifies ringleader #4, #3, #2 and #1? When do you side out ringleaders? and how many?
Input is very much appreciated :wink:
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fimo
@LPEuler: against maverick cursed totem is probably the best SB card there is. If you think u are going to face a lot of maverick put 2 totems in SB and you will not regret it.
I think that the most problematic cards they have are equipments. If they have an equipment you don t have an answer for they ll problably win, otherwise you are favoured. So artifact hate is very important here. Pyrokinesis helps a lot but I still think that artifact hate is more important. A combination of artifact hate + cursed totem/pyrokinesis makes it easier. Pithing needle is a less extreme piece of hate in place of cursed totem and works fine against them.
Be carefull not to get mana screwed by wasteland + knight lock.
@all: i find myself in awkward situations when I need to SB. I am always uncertain whether I need to side out some ringleaders or other goblins. Is there a threshold value of goblins in the deck that justifies ringleader #4, #3, #2 and #1? When do you side out ringleaders? and how many?
Input is very much appreciated :wink:
Thanks for the answer fimo.
I will side in the Cursed Totem (x2), Needles (x3), Pyro (I have 3 but I may side 2 only) and TukTuk x1-2 (I have Tinkerer MD)... Do you think it is good?
What about Stoneblade? It seems to me that they rely too basically on the artifacts and that, as well as you say with Maverick, when the artifact is on play you better not let it hit (I usually block and sac with prospector or stingscourger/gempalm the creature before).
My main concert, as well as yours, comes also from the fact of SBing out goblins. What do you usually SB?
Thanks for your info.
PS: Could you post your Rw list?
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LPEuler
My main concern is the MWM. Everyobody seems running them, even in great number and I have even been adviced (thanks L10) to increase the number but so far I haven't seen them being great. Instead of the MWM I would find very useful adding a 4th Gempalm, another Stingscourger, 2 Tarfires or even Lighting for that purpose.
What do you think? What does your experience thinks?
I think that MWM is what makes Gempalm Incinerator great. Personally I would never play 4 Gempalm Incinerators without 4 MWM. I do prefer to play goblins in control mode. MWM is also good against aggro matchups and matchups that are dependant on sacrifice spells to get rid of creatures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LPEuler
Hello all,
In this sense, I have been adviced by a good player on my shop that against Maverick (At least) one could think about using Cursed Totem
http://magiccards.info/6e/en/278.html
It affects Krenko (totally) and SGC (partially, it still fills the board) but he has told me it can disrupt their deck heavily (Birds, Knight, Mother, Hierarch, Stoneforge...).
What do you think?
I haven't played maverick enough (only once on our local tournament and I was lucky my opponent played a second Jitte to win me the round.) to know for sure what's the best tactic but don't you have other cards in your sideboard (pyrokinesis) that are good vs Maverick? It seems to me that Krenko and Siege-gang, Sharpshooter and are also very useful against Maverick. Also MWM looks good to me against maverick, they give you time to reach midgame.
EDIT: And it also saves you from boarding in lots of non-goblins and thus also less hassle choosing which cards to side out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fimo
I would do:
- 4 tarfire
- 2 pyrokinesis
+ 3 thalia
+ 1 gempalm
+ 2 (some other goblin, in my list they were 1 PD and 1 MWM)
Isn't Pyrokinesis still good? I mean 4 damage for 1 mana is still good, right?
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
About the Maverick MU:
I agree with ´Nelis - you should absolutely favor creatures to fight Maverick. Focus on 3-4 copies of MWM, 2 Siege Gangs, side in Sharpshooter and most importantly: Krenko. This fucker wins in an instant when he gets "online". I have my 2nd Krenko in SB (alongside with 1 Sharpshooter and 2 Pithing Needles) to fight Maverick which is usually enough. Skirk Prospector in MD is also a valuable card to fight Jitte and Batterskull.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Today I played a little 31 men tournament and ended up a little bit unlucky.
I played my GP list and played this way:
1. Round against Thopter Foundry 2:1
Game one I had abaou 80 Token (!!!) and a few other token and with 2 Ringleader and normal draw I did't find Matron for my Prospector (to shoot with SGC), while my opponent had 2 Ensnaring Bridges and 0 cards.
2. Round against Zombardment 2:0
We started 1:1 for me, because he had a wrong decklist. After a mulligan down to 5, I blowed him away.
3. Round against RUGb Delver 2:1
The first game he won with double Goyf while I found nothing
4. Round ID against Spiraltide
5. Round ID against Stoneblade
So found myself at the top 8 paired against the Spiraltide :frown:
The rest of the field was Lands!, Deadguy Ale, Canadian, UW, Stoneblade and Maverick. So everything would have been better than Spiraltide.
So I lost and was out! I think the Spiraltide won the tournament (Final against Lands!)
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
LPEuler,
Don't use Cursed Totem. In fact, Cursed Totem and Suppression Field are sideboard cards against goblins as well! It kills Incinerator, SGC, Krenko, Sharpshooter, and Prospector. All of which are needed against Maverick. To be honest, Maverick is not a hard matchup for us, except for an unanswered Jitte or a powerful Knight of the Reliquary. Looking at your deck, you should have 1 Gempalm, 1-2 MWM in your side board, and 2-3 Pyrokinesis. Pithing Needles are nice too. Much safer than Cursed Totem. If you want, you can always splash black for Perish. It kills all their creatures except for Mom and Thalia. But splashing black is not needed.
PD2,
Nice job. I don't even have SB against Spiral Tide. Well, except to Pyroblasts. Didn't think anyone would play it in this meta. Maybe next time, you can win it all!
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
L10
LPEuler,
Don't use Cursed Totem. In fact, Cursed Totem and Suppression Field are sideboard cards against goblins as well! It kills Incinerator, SGC, Krenko, Sharpshooter, and Prospector.
You can still cycle Incinerator with Cursed Totem on the field.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
You sure? A Stax player used it on me before saying I can't use Gempalm as a cantrip. Cycle is an activated ability and Gempalm is a creature. I don't think the creature necessarily has to be on the field.
Edit: I just checked. You are right.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Ca...tiverseid=3247
Ruling: Cursed Totem does not prevent creature cards which are not on the battlefield from having their abilities activated.
Edit 2: However, Suppression Field does affect Gempalm.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=25660
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
guys, have you evern tried having cursed totem down against maverick? it s basically gg. Mom doesn t give protection, knight of the reliquary doesn t get bigger and doesn t get us mana screwed, ooze doesn t get more than a 2/2, quasali doesn t blow your æther vial and so on... Most important: nothing in their deck can answer cursed totem. it is COMPLETELY another deck you are going to face. I did have 1-2 copies in the SB when maverick was played everywhere around here and it did his job amazingly. If you have 2 sloths in your SB that u think you can invest exclusively for maverick I think that is the best you can do. Right now I switched playing 2 pithing needle which are good against many more decks but are much worse in the maverick MU. As long as you don t name quasali pridemage pithing needle is gonna blow soon or later. Pithing needle is not safe at all. I do side them in because they usually buy me a couple of turns against that jitte but they are strickly worse than cursed totem against maverick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LPEuler
PS: Could you post your Rw list?
here it is what i m currently playing:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 AEther Vial
1 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mountain
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
3 Plateau
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Disenchant
Against maverick I sideboard:
-3 thalia
-2 piledriver
+3 disenchant
+2 pithing needle
@nelis: I think that playing pyrokinesis MD alongside thalia is a mistake. Actually the fact that thalia makes it cost 1 more is not even a big deal. I think that there is no need for playing removals without legs MD at all. Gempalm and stingscourger are great removals that don t create such a card disadvantage, we don t need more. We have the chance to make all our deck (except vial) uncounterable, why giving the blue mage the opportunity to get value out of that counterspell? We play 4 caverns, 4 vials and 4 lackey, we really have the chance of making a fouth of their spells useless. G2/G3 they will side out some counterspells and at that point we can bring in "counterable" spells. There are situations where pyrokinesis just wins you the game in fact I think it is a valuable SB card.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fimo
@nelis: I think that playing pyrokinesis MD alongside thalia is a mistake. Actually the fact that thalia makes it cost 1 more is not even a big deal. I think that there is no need for playing removals without legs MD at all. Gempalm and stingscourger are great removals that don t create such a card disadvantage, we don t need more.
Let's just say that I much rather prefer to use Goblins as removal than non-goblins. You can conclude that from my other replies. So I am agreeing with you on that one. Maybe Pyrokinesis isn't needed at all anymore but that's a conclusion I dare not make at the moment. I need more testing for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fimo
We have the chance to make all our deck (except vial) uncounterable, why giving the blue mage the opportunity to get value out of that counterspell? We play 4 caverns, 4 vials and 4 lackey, we really have the chance of making a fouth of their spells useless. G2/G3 they will side out some counterspells and at that point we can bring in "counterable" spells. There are situations where pyrokinesis just wins you the game in fact I think it is a valuable SB card.
I was only debating if its a problem running Pyrokinesis alongside Thalia nothing more. I think you misinterpreted me, at least that's my conclusion on your quoted reply above. I wasn't advocating to use Pyrokinesis mainboard.* I agree with you that we can sideboard them in game 2 and 3 but I wonder if they're needed against current blue decks anyway.
* EDIT: Oh I see now why you thought that. Your advise to Achamian was about his mainboard not his sideboard. I misread myself. You're absolutely right by not playing Pyrokinesis in the mainboard. So basically we agree on everything. :-)
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
@L10: Yes I will. I hate playing REB or Pyroblast, so I only had Chalices against him.
To cursed Totem: No, we don't want to play it. Our deck is alwas better without that in every matchup. Maybe it will work against Maverick, but why should we make our own cards like Krenko and SGC useless? So we board 2-3 totems (untutorable) to make 2-3 cards (tutorable) bad? Nice move!
You can cycle and shot with Gempalm under Totem. It is a card in your hand, not a creature on the battlefield in this case, so Totem won't work.
@fimo: What is your removalpackage G1? If you won't play Pyrokinesis or spells, that could be countered, there will be not much you play. You can't play only Stingscourger (no real removal) and Gempalm Incinerator (sometimes without Goblins in play), so you have to play noncreature spells.
Pyrokinesis at first do carddisadvantage but often (fe against Maverick) you can hit 2 or 3 creatures.
Against them, if you draw 2 or more Pyrokinesis, it will always be the win, so is against Merfolk (and he only has force).
@All: What removal do you play at the moment? At the moment I am playing a MWM-built wich works very well against Maverick and RUG. I only play 3 Incinerator, 2 Stingscourger, 2 Pyrokinesis, 1 tarfire, 1 SGC. On the one hand, Tarfire is the worst card in my deck and I don't like it. On the other hand, it enables Lackey. Maybe I will play one more Incinerator instead of it.
People like GoboLord are playing Dismember but I am also not a freind of this card in this deck (and won't pay 4 life before it's gonna be countered).
What else could be played? Maybe Mogg Fanatic, but I didn't test him so far (last time I played was many many years ago).
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pee-Dee-2
@L10: Yes I will. I hate playing REB or Pyroblast, so I only had Chalices against him.
To cursed Totem: No, we don't want to play it. Our deck is alwas better without that in every matchup. Maybe it will work against Maverick, but why should we make our own cards like Krenko and SGC useless? So we board 2-3 totems (untutorable) to make 2-3 cards (tutorable) bad? Nice move!
You can cycle and shot with Gempalm under Totem. It is a card in your hand, not a creature on the battlefield in this case, so Totem won't work.
@fimo: What is your removalpackage G1? If you won't play Pyrokinesis or spells, that could be countered, there will be not much you play. You can't play only Stingscourger (no real removal) and Gempalm Incinerator (sometimes without Goblins in play), so you have to play noncreature spells.
Pyrokinesis at first do carddisadvantage but often (fe against Maverick) you can hit 2 or 3 creatures.
Against them, if you draw 2 or more Pyrokinesis, it will always be the win, so is against Merfolk (and he only has force).
@All: What removal do you play at the moment? At the moment I am playing a MWM-built wich works very well against Maverick and RUG. I only play 3 Incinerator, 2 Stingscourger, 2 Pyrokinesis, 1 tarfire, 1 SGC. On the one hand, Tarfire is the worst card in my deck and I don't like it. On the other hand, it enables Lackey. Maybe I will play one more Incinerator instead of it.
People like GoboLord are playing Dismember but I am also not a freind of this card in this deck (and won't pay 4 life before it's gonna be countered).
What else could be played? Maybe Mogg Fanatic, but I didn't test him so far (last time I played was many many years ago).
I play 4 MWM, 4 Gempalm, 1 Stingscourger, 1 Sharpshooter, 1 SGC. I could see playing more removal MD but I'm not sure if I need it.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pee-Dee-2
To cursed Totem: No, we don't want to play it. Our deck is alwas better without that in every matchup. Maybe it will work against Maverick, but why should we make our own cards like Krenko and SGC useless? So we board 2-3 totems (untutorable) to make 2-3 cards (tutorable) bad? Nice move!
@fimo: What is your removalpackage G1? If you won't play Pyrokinesis or spells, that could be countered, there will be not much you play. You can't play only Stingscourger (no real removal) and Gempalm Incinerator (sometimes without Goblins in play), so you have to play noncreature spells.
Pyrokinesis at first do carddisadvantage but often (fe against Maverick) you can hit 2 or 3 creatures.
Against them, if you draw 2 or more Pyrokinesis, it will always be the win, so is against Merfolk (and he only has force).
@cursed totem: I think that a common error that I do and many people do is sometimes not to see the overall benefit of a card considering advantages besides the most obvious disadvantages. There are SB cards that can give you only an advantage without disadvantages, for example, you are against merfolk and G2 you do -1 tuktuk +1 PD. There is no doubt that in the merfolk MU Piledriver will always shine more than any other card you could play. On the other hand there are SB cards that give you an obvious disadvantage even though they benefit of running them overrun the drawbacks. A classic example is chalice of the void. You are playing against RUG delver.... do you really wanna side in 4 chalice of the void to set them at 1? they are gonna counter lackey, æter via, REB, you can t matron for them and they are gonna go on the bottom of the library once you ringleader into them!!!! yes but they are gonna counter 3/4 of your opponent spells so the drawbacks it creates to us are perfectly acceptable. Same thing with cursed totem: it creates an obvious disadvantage to us but the disadvantage it creates to a maverick player is so much bigger that it makes it in my opinion the best SB card for mono red goblins. I agree it is only for the maverick MU.
@removals: there was a point in which I played tons of removal but I came to the conclusion that I prefer playing threats myself. I play 4 gempalm, 1 stingscourger and 1 sharpshooter even though sometimes I go up to 2 stingscourger. I think that 6 removals MD are perfectly fine, let your opponent be the one with headaches stearing at to too many threats on the battlefield
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fimo
@cursed totem: I think that a common error that I do and many people do is sometimes not to see the overall benefit of a card considering advantages besides the most obvious disadvantages. There are SB cards that can give you only an advantage without disadvantages, for example, you are against merfolk and G2 you do -1 tuktuk +1 PD. There is no doubt that in the merfolk MU Piledriver will always shine more than any other card you could play. On the other hand there are SB cards that give you an obvious disadvantage even though they benefit of running them overrun the drawbacks. A classic example is chalice of the void. You are playing against RUG delver.... do you really wanna side in 4 chalice of the void to set them at 1? they are gonna counter lackey, æter via, REB, you can t matron for them and they are gonna go on the bottom of the library once you ringleader into them!!!! yes but they are gonna counter 3/4 of your opponent spells so the drawbacks it creates to us are perfectly acceptable. Same thing with cursed totem: it creates an obvious disadvantage to us but the disadvantage it creates to a maverick player is so much bigger that it makes it in my opinion the best SB card for mono red goblins. I agree it is only for the maverick MU.
@removals: there was a point in which I played tons of removal but I came to the conclusion that I prefer playing threats myself. I play 4 gempalm, 1 stingscourger and 1 sharpshooter even though sometimes I go up to 2 stingscourger. I think that 6 removals MD are perfectly fine, let your opponent be the one with headaches stearing at to too many threats on the battlefield
In this situation I totally agree with you, fimo. I think sometimes you have to look at the advantadges vs the disadvantadges and I think in that particular case it is a win situation. You leave their board with 1-2/1-2 creatures staring at yours which are stronger and in more amount. In my case that I run 3 chieftains I see them even bigger. Yes, you lose Krenko's ability but they lose far more. (At least you have a 3/3 or 4/4 beater :laugh:).
Same goes for Chalice in RUG Delver. If it drops it is the bomb. If it gets countered... one less counter for the Lackey :laugh: and you can always hope to find a second.
About the removal, I never saw it like that but you are right. I run only 3 gempalm, 2 stingscourger, 1 SGC and 1 sharp-shooter and it is true that packing so many creatures no matter how many I can remove I always top-deck something useful (or matron or drop it from my hand).
I think I am going to keep my sideboard with
4 Chalices
3 Pithing Needles
3 Pyrokinesis
4 Graveyard Hate (Combination of Relic and Cage)
1 Destroy-Artifact Goblin (Tuktuk or Tinkerer, I run 1 on MD).
I may do the Totem if I feel there is too much Maverick around, I will ask in my local gamestore. I may add a 4th Pile there but I doubt there is much Merfolks around, 3 are good enough.
@fimo: I like your Bw list but have you tried...
- 3 Gempalm + 2 Stingscourger instead of 4/1.
- 3 Piledrivers + 2 MWM instead of 4/1.
Then a question:
How do you play Thalia? Do you ever use the Cave to Thalia?
@All: Tuktuk vs Tinkerer. What do you like more? I have 1 & 1 at this moment.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
@Fimo: It depends on meta but 6 removal (if you count Sharpshooter to ist) could be not enough. I also dislike Sharpshooter. He is too slow, doesn't enable Lackey and so on, only want him against Elves and Gobos!
To Chalice: Chalice only counters Vial or if you like to play them, REB/Pyroblast. But you never play Chalice and REB in the same Sideboaurd, do you? You can play your Lackey still via Cavern. But the normal play is first turn Lackey/vial and second or third turn Chalice.
I know what you mean, but you will win against Meverick without any Totem, so why boarding them? (ok, that is with my built and doesn't have to be with every Goblin deck). If you need something against Maverick, it is an option.
//Edit: @LPEuler: I played Tinkerer a long time but prefer Scrapper. You can only play Tinkerer if he would have haste. In that case, he is one mana cheaper than Scrapper by needing 2 red mana. Normaly you can use both only one time but the Scrapper leaves back a 2/2 Body and made 1 damage.
When is Tinkerer better than Scrapper?
1. When you are screwed ;)
2. When you opponent plays cards like Dreadnought or Vial
3. Against a second turn Jitte
But normaly, if the opponent has things like active Jitte or SoFiI, he will kill our hastes. In that cases, Scrapper is alway better than Tinkerer. Furthermore, in midgame or lategame, it is more likely havin' a Vial on 4 as havin' one on 2 + a haster. That were my experiences.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
I'm also in favor of more than 6 removal. I'm running the following package right now:
3 Gempalms
2 Stinger
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Dismember
The only MU that gives me headaches ATM is Esperblade (I think I can beat any other popular deck right now). I just don't have the correct strategy yet and I didn't figure out what my core cards for this MU are (feels like I'm not seeing the forest for the trees). Maybe you guys can help me out?
As I see the MU I need to blow up early Stoneforge Mystics and handle later Spirit tokens. Snapcaster Mage and Clique get usually handled by Gempalm Incinerator in response to their CIP triggers and are therefore not problematic. What really eats me is that Esperblade always seems to have Stoneforge Mystic on Turn 2 or 3, which is njot necessarily a problem if they wouldn't discard my answers to it (Dismember, Stinger, MWM and Skirk Prospector). I usually try to build up some pressure in early game (figure that out: they usually don't run more than 4 pieces of counter - they totally rely on their 4-of StoP and 3-5 Discard spells). Then, when Stoneforge Mystic resolves, the tides turn. From this point I try to play it a little like the Maverick MU: grind it out to late game.
So how do you guys approach this MU? Are there other valuable cards that I'm overlooking right now? How do you like Chieftains in this MU?
@ Pee-Dee: I'm still waiting for my Krenko-performance-report :-D
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GoboLord
I'm also in favor of more than 6 removal. I'm running the following package right now:
3 Gempalms
2 Stinger
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Dismember
The only MU that gives me headaches ATM is Esperblade (I think I can beat any other popular deck right now). I just don't have the correct strategy yet and I didn't figure out what my core cards for this MU are (feels like I'm not seeing the forest for the trees). Maybe you guys can help me out?
As I see the MU I need to blow up early Stoneforge Mystics and handle later Spirit tokens. Snapcaster Mage and Clique get usually handled by Gempalm Incinerator in response to their CIP triggers and are therefore not problematic. What really eats me is that Esperblade always seems to have Stoneforge Mystic on Turn 2 or 3, which is njot necessarily a problem if they wouldn't discard my answers to it (Dismember, Stinger, MWM and Skirk Prospector). I usually try to build up some pressure in early game (figure that out: they usually don't run more than 4 pieces of counter - they totally rely on their 4-of StoP and 3-5 Discard spells). Then, when Stoneforge Mystic resolves, the tides turn. From this point I try to play it a little like the Maverick MU: grind it out to late game.
So how do you guys approach this MU? Are there other valuable cards that I'm overlooking right now? How do you like Chieftains in this MU?
@ Pee-Dee: I'm still waiting for my Krenko-performance-report :-D
Hello GoboLord,
Yesterday I tested against some kind of Esperblade (although only BW) and I won by 9-2 despite all his removal (Swords, Inquisitions, Hymn, Vindicates, some sacrifice creature spell, the bw artifact 2/2 that exiles one card... he played jitte and swords, stoneforge, aven mindcesor, dark confidant...). The strategy was to put a lot of pressure on the board from the beginning with hands having at least a lackey or a vial (which normally got discarded/countered) but some other 2CC, 3CC threats... Despite his efforts trying to kill/destroy/discard my goblins I always found the way to recover thanks to Ringleaders, Matron -> Ringleader, Krenkos (they were very good).... 7 haste lords were very useful as well, specially to activate Krenko or to let some goblins do something before they die. If he could drop Jitte/Swords I would search for a prospector if I had many gobbos/tokens or for a stingscourger/gempalm if he had one creature only to attach it to so I could try to race him. If he put counters on the Jitte, just hitting once, it was GG for him. Also mana disruption was very useful, I run 4 Wastes + 2 Rishadans and wasting his duals or tapping his b or w source was very useful, specially at the beginning with lackey and/or vial on play. I run only 3 Gempalms, 2 Pyro, 1 Stingscourger as removal.
Funny match:
T1 he discards my vial. I drop prospector. He is happy because it is not Lackey/Vial.
T2 he discards me 2 cards. I drop piledriver. Hit with prospector.
T3-T4-T5 etc I drop warchief, chieftain, krenkos and nasty stuff that he kills etc etc while prospector keeps killing. In the end prospector took him alone to 8 :D and I finished killing him by drawing Ringleader, filling up my hand and final blow.
All matches were done without sideboard.
Hope this information helps.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
The deck you played against wasn't some kind of ESPERBLADE but some kind of DEADGUY ALE, which is quite easy MU for Goblins (as you figured out yourself). The huge differences is that Esperblade (1) has library manipulation in form Brainstorm and Ponder to draw Stoneforge Mystic in earlier turns and (2) has countermagic to protect their Stoneforge-based tactic. So the MUs are very different from each other.
However, thank you for sharing this information - it might be helpful to someone.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GoboLord
I'm also in favor of more than 6 removal. I'm running the following package right now:
3 Gempalms
2 Stinger
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Dismember
The only MU that gives me headaches ATM is Esperblade (I think I can beat any other popular deck right now). I just don't have the correct strategy yet and I didn't figure out what my core cards for this MU are (feels like I'm not seeing the forest for the trees). Maybe you guys can help me out?
As I see the MU I need to blow up early Stoneforge Mystics and handle later Spirit tokens.
Now that´s exactly why I play 4 Tarfire mainboard. At my area, Maverick, Esper- and Stoneblade are probably the 3 most played decks right now and you usually only lose to a T2 Stoneforge Mystic with no immediate removal on hand.
I really don't care about Lingering souls or Snapcaster Mage, because by the time those cards hit the battlefield, I should have no problems outracing them (especially with an active vial). An early active Jitte is pretty much the only chance for them to win against me.
I know my removal package is high compared to most other lists (I run 3 Incinerator, 1 Stingscourger, 1 Pyrokinesis, 4 Tarfire, Sharpshooter, Tinkerer), but I really really like having my removal whenever I see a Stoneforge Mystic, because against "fair" decks, that´s pretty much the only card I'm scared to face (not the card itself, but for what it does :p ).
For example: at a tournament 2 weeks ago, I was paired against Robert Dersch (he placed 26th at GP Ghent with Esperblade) and G2 he had 2 Stoneforge Mystics in his starting hand and has drawn a third one early enough. I was able to remove all of them simply because I'm playing more removal than most other goblin players (had Tarfire, Tarfire and Incinerator in hand in this case). I'm pretty sure I would have lost this match without a single Tarfire.
All in all I would say having removal against decks like Esperblade is pretty important, because stopping their gameplan against us (means removing early Mystics) is pretty much gg. I think I've never lost against Esperblade if they were unable to connect Jitte to a creature in the first 3 or 4 turns.
