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Is there a specific reason/situation/etc in which you like using Mikokoro? I just don't see the value since you're giving your opponent a draw as well. Do you side it out in certain matchups?
Also, I'm a big fan of 1x Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale in my sideboard. It helps against a lot of decks. Have you tried testing it at all? What are your thoughts?
So the plan now is to turn this into Miracles-Post?
When do we start running 2-3 Jace the Mind Sculptor? :laugh:
At this point, why not entreat or counter balance since we have tops? :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
I've actually often wondered whether Counterbalance would be a good card in the deck seeing as we're already playing 4x top and 4x brainstorm.
The interesting things about the bantpost list that I see are that (1) you're not running any candelabra's (2) you've finally cut away the last vesuva and are solidly in -post territory.
Rock Lee: How has not playing either of them been for you? I've often found getting a second BOG off of a crop rotate the only way to survive against dredge.
@theavish, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea is in there as a way of "countering" infernal tutor with a crop rotation. It beats the line of: infernal tutor, (holding priority) sac a LED and discard hand, tutor Past in Flames, and then recast their GY. After the LED has resolved you can crop rotate into Mikokoro and force them to draw a card. It's also useful for digging for specific cards like when you need to find that moments peace to survive the turn. I think there was some discussion about the card a few pages back that you might be able to search for.
I like the Miracles plan. We used to play Bonfire in the past, and Terminus is even better. Always was afraid of it's normal cc including WW, but it seems to work... Guess I will give it a try, but with 1-2 candelabras for mana fixing
Plus, unlike red, we're incidentially running an extra white source (or two b/c of flagstone if you want to go that route) b/c of Karakas, so the splash is easier to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
Thanks for the explanation, but I'm just a bit confused. If you give them the draw, then don't they just get to draw the card they tutored for? Seems like it's perfect for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathrite_Shaman
I'm just getting my feet wet in Legacy after a good year or so with Modern. I was playing RG Tron before, so I figure 12-Post would be a good transition in that I have a basic grasp on the game plan already. I'm finding that the deck punishes misplays HARD, but I love the deck so much. I'm on a 0-Candelabra list for now, since I can't seem to find them anywhere. I like where y'all are headed in the Bant direction.
Currently 0 candelabra is highly debatable. I have a "flex" slot of 1 atm, and currently it is 1 Ulamog. Cards I'm testing in that slot are Candelabrax1, Oblivion Ring, Ulamog, Jace, 4th Repeal, 4th Terminus, 4th Moment's Peace, 3rd Ugin, the Spirit Dragon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathrite_Shaman
No vesuva has been something I've been testing since including moment's peace. I found moment's peace was close to sufficient without a second bog, but I needed board removal, so Terminus steps up to that. Thusfar I haven't found the need for a second of any utility land, including chasm with this build. Chasm often buys you time to clear off the board, or gain life via thragtusk and/or transition your lands to basics and/or draw counterspells for pop.
Infernal Tutor puts the card they search for into their hand. The tutor, hold priority-activate LED line lets you get the Hellbent effect of turning IT into DT while floating your LED mana to cast what you search for. If you Rotate into and activate Mikokoro in response to the tutor (after they've dumped their hand, but before IT resolves) they're forced to find a second copy of the top card of their deck. It's not even a soft counter, but it's an effective probabilistic counter.Quote:
Originally Posted by theavish
Cards they can draw into are 11-bad cards (4 dark ritual, 4 cabal ritual, 3 infernal tutor, 1 tendrils of agony, with soft-answer of brainstorm into one of those). Other than that, often the mikokoro is an effective 5-6 turn stall.Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
Won another weekly with Bant-post, this time against some heinous matchups of Mono-White Staxx, Belcher, and Belcher again.
Used this list:
// Lands
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [R] Tundra
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [R] Tropical Island
1 [LRW] Forest (3)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [TSP] Island (2)
3 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [SOK] Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [R] Savannah
1 [P2] Plains (1)
1 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [M13] Thragtusk
// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [OD] Moment's Peace
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [AVR] Terminus
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [US] Show and Tell
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 [C13] Bane of Progress
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [ARB] Meddling Mage
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 1 [NE] Seal of Cleansing
Testing will be via riftstone portal a second flagstone, and this flex slot.
Two Belchers! Geez.
Yeah local players often have 4-5 decks built. Come to the event with them all, see if I'm there, then pick whatever nasty matchup they think I can't beat. This time, two friends slung Mono White staxx and Belcher my way, played 'em both. The other belcher player always plays belcher for nostalgia.Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
Incidentally, this build doesn't run candelabra, no more FoW, only 3 trops, and fetches are dirt cheap now. The total cost-to-ride for this deck has taken a huge hit. Outside of Show & Tells, duals, fetches, and ugin/emrakul, the deck is 200$ tops.
And how you beat them?
They mulled a lot and always went the token route.
This list seems pretty sweet. I noticed you're playing 28 lands. How has that been for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
The thing I like about adding a third color is that it adds more power to the deck without suffering the normal consequences of moving from 2 colors to 3 colors.
Round 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
Game 1 Belcher goes for 12 tokens, fogs and terminus.
Game 2 He belches me turn 0.
Game 3 I have a blue land and a counterspell.
Round 3.
Game 1 In win the die roll, land go. He considers going for goblins, says go. I play a second land, when he goes for belcher I have crop into chasm.
Game 2 He mulls to 5, then goes for 10 goblins on turn 2, which get fog'd then terminus'd. He goes for a belcher, but I have a counter for his last mana ramp. he scoops to mikokoro building my hand up when I'm at 7 cards and he has 1.
There have been candleless versions floating around for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
That's really scummy. Personally if they are metagaming for you, I think you should just audible to a completely different archetype. Same color sleeves and deckbox. It's fighting fire w/ fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Kinda. It makes my weeklies extremely entertaining. The experience lends me to believe that this deck doesn't have bad matchups, just more experience needed in them.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Another thing to consider is that the list that has put up the most actual tournament results happens to be the classic "stock" list with two Candelabras or the mono green list that also has Candelabras. Rock Lee is a great post player, but one of the reasons he is in that position is because he is one of the few people (I'd say there are only between 3-5) that are well known and actually put effort into the deck. It doesn't matter how good you are when you have thousands of cards available to test with and only so many people to test.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster