I don't think that's a great reason to run Heath, because at some point you'll come up against an opponent that points out the fact that you can't use colorless mana to activate Heath.Quote:
Originally Posted by esqulax
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I don't think that's a great reason to run Heath, because at some point you'll come up against an opponent that points out the fact that you can't use colorless mana to activate Heath.Quote:
Originally Posted by esqulax
Bah, Magic is less fun when people actually read the cards and make me feel stupid.
Anyway that changes a lot ^^ I can't say if it wasn't a plains I did it with to hymn turn 2 I honestly forgot, but that definitely means that I can cut back on some of those if not cut them all.
It really depends on your basic-landcount. If you play 0-1 Plains Fetid Heath is useless. But when you play more Plains Id really play 1-3 Heaths...
The basic plains is the biggest reason to play Fetid Heath, plains kinda sucks for the deck. But a neccesary evil to be able to play arround wastelands. Heath makes you able to fetch plains t1 and still able to play t2 Hymn. As well as swamp, swamp wasteland into feath for an Elspeth. Imo heath's enables alot of plays no other lands in the game can offer. IMO a 2 colored deck dont really need to run thoes 8 fetchlands some puts into their Deadguys. Heaths makes you able to play more colored sources without geting into Stifles.
Wouldnt play the deck without the land.
Yeah True and the downside has rarely come up for me so far. Still it probably means that Heath will be what I cut to make room for the single Bayou rather than a fetch.
Anyway does anyone else have an opinion wether or not the single Bayou for Choke in an Enlightened Tutor package is worth it?
I've used Jotun Grunt too, and I kind of felt the same. He was a desc SB against Lands for his ability, but even then not the greatest 'cause... well, swing into Maze, yay. Even for "shrinking" Goyfs and KoTR's, I specifically remember playing against a similar deck like that a while back and my opponent simply waited it out knowing Grunt essentially is like 'Fading 2', then proceeded to win. So basically you get your free swing, but he times out and you're in trouble. Maybe as a one-of he works better from your experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by bfeingersh
Im playing it as a 2of Mainboard. Cause in my meta there`re quite alot of BW(X) Midrangedecks, and Jotun is just the mirrorbreaker as Terravore is for Maverick. It just recycles all your destroyed and used stuff and is a 4/4 wall most of the time. I might not play him if there was more Combo to be honest.
Have you seen the new Sorin? He fits the token generating version of the deck just like Elspeth does. He protects himself with 1/1 lifelinkers. The second ability however is very interesting when running bitterblossom and other token generating sources. This guy is gonna need to be play tested thats for sure.
Wow, with the new Sorin, I really feel like revamping Deadguy into Tokenguy. A white base instead of a black base for Spectral Procession would be awesome!
Check this out:
Creatures (8)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
Instant/Sorcery (18)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Vindicate
4 Spectral Procession
Artifact/Enchantment (8)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Batterskull
2 Bitterblossom
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Sorin, Lord of Inistrad
Lands (22)
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
3 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Fetid Heath
Your Curve looks way to high to use with Bob
cmc1= 13
cmc2= 11
cmc3= 11 (if Spectral Procession counts in here, not sure about this)
cmc4= 2
cmc5= 1
with 8 Fetchies and PS Thoughtsize looks like a Sui-Build.
I would leave the SFM-Route and try out something more Pox-like with much permanents and tokens, breeding over a List atm
Spectral is actually 6, curve is 1.55.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Spectral Procession has CMC 6, so it really sucks when you flip it with Bob.
But yeah, the token route is the way to go. I'd try something like this:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thoughtseize / Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
4 Bitterblossom
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of X & Y (I'd pick Fire & Ice)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Sorin, Lord of Inistrad
1 Liliana of the Veil
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Swamp
2 Plains
Sorin seems kind of ridiculous. Just get Bitterblossom out and/or him, you can simply sit back and chump your way to ultimate, then just win. Who even need emblem (unless you needed Skull to trade witha Goyf or something). I'd throw in a couple E. Tutors and maybe a Ghostly Prison, make it even more aggravating.
I think we can have a deck like this with the new Sorin :
4 Scrubland
4 Wateland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Plains
3 Swamps
1 Karakas
3 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Bitterblossom
2 Intangible Virtue
3 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
That list is similar to what I was thinking of running.
My list is
-2 Land
-2 Intangible Virtue
+2 Cabal Therapy
+2 Sensei's Divining Top
Quite sure I would want a split between Elspeth and Sorin in the deck, 2 of each.
Token Generators:
3 Bitterblossom
2 Blade Splicer
2 Elspeth
2 Sorin
Stuff:
4 Bob
4 Stoneforge
1 Jitte
1 Sobm
1 Skull
x Discard spells, Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Inquision of Kozilek, Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords
x Gatekeeper of Malakir
About 22 mana sources, scrubs, Flats / Deltas swamps, plains, Urborg, Wastelands, Heaths, Moxes.
Hate playing with tops as they require more fetchs then we actually need, also the curve is low that its not really needed.
I feel that a Sorin is sufficient.
More than two Sorin doesn't make sense.:wink:
I'm not sure what people will think of this, but looking at some of the lists people are proposing so far... I almost think it needs a Green splash.
Why?
Because pulling off a win with the new Sorin, some of you are trying so hard to win.. all you need to do is simply 'not lose' the way I see it. And to borrow some key spells from Rock, Lands, etc. green gives you a lot of great options
#1 Acceleration
I'm really more and more not a fan of Chrome Mox, or pretty much most Mox. Why? Because look at your lists, 99% of your spells are 1-2cc that's just a waste of CA... and runnin 3, its like you want to see it but not really almost.
Instead, you could run Birds of Paradise or Noble Heirarch. It doesn't cost you CA and gives you a blocker if needed.
#2 Controlling Board
One thing that came to mind was Maze of Ith. Between token chumping and Maze of Ith, they simply won't be able to kill your planeswalkers. But it really isn't reasonable to just toss a Maze in your deck, so I was thinking maybe run ~3 Crop Rotation to fix mana and hold off. I've used in a G/W deck and it works well. And to add to its effectiveness, throw in like ~2 Flagstones of Trokair, its an awesome combo and I've always gotten players going "sick" when I can pull it off.
Also, simply having access to Goyf and/or Witness would be really helpful. Goyf for simply holding board control, and Witness for grabbing the stuff back that got destroyed, countered, discarded or w/e.
Sylvan Library would be worth having, but only if it fits. I would almost have it over Bob to be honest, in a deck like this.
Another spell for W that nobody mentioned that's completely busted... Mother of Runes. She's ridiculously broken in some decks, they can't remove or destroy anything when she's out, and in a deck that's trying to keep its creatures in play and chump she'd be perfect imo.
I dont think green is needed, just play Chrome Mox and a Bernal style deck. Sorin fits its idea well as it was a token based win strategy...
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=42054
I guess that's it then, hyperlink always wins. Thank god for net deck, I guess, otherwise you'd have to think outside of the box aye. :wink: