-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Svknoe
Nice result! I haven't tried the Punishing Fire version in a tournament yet, so I can't quite tell what the best option is.
Since my last report of winning a tournament with BUG Pod I have taken it to two more tournaments. First a 48 person tournament where I got 3rd, going undefeated in the swiss. Then I won a 42 person tournament with it today, losing one match to Jund. It seems favorable, though. I played against UWR Delver, BR Reanimator ,Miracles, something I can't quite recall, Jund and BUG Delver again in the swiss. In the top 8 I played against Miracles again, and the Affinity. Finally I opted to split top2 with a Merfolk player. I may write a report. I think that the deck is good. Most match ups seem somewhat favorable. Miracles is probably bad, though.
Miracles is probably the only match up where we should play the beatdown right away. I hate to say it, but their control elements are bit stronger against us than ours are against them.
A few things for Miracles:
1. Do not pull the Cabal+Explorer trigger too soon. Not only do they run enough basics to mitigate the usual one-sided ramp, but it also thins their deck out, giving them a better chance to rip Entreat the Angels from a top deck, especially with Brainstorm or Sensei's Divining Top.
2. Since we are the beatdown, take every opportunity you can to stick a creature and swing. If you land a Deed, only crack it for 0 (Entreat tokens) IF you would have the creature advantage afterwards. Otherwise, crack it when it's in your best interest.
I don't think Miracles is favorable by any means, just that it's more even than unfavorable. Definitely forces us to play a different game than usual.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Haven't played vs Miracle with Pod yet. It doesnt seem like an overly exciting MU to me. With straight GB last year it was definitely a skill testing and probably negative MU though. That also was before Decay and DRS though as well.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Svknoe
Nice result! I haven't tried the Punishing Fire version in a tournament yet, so I can't quite tell what the best option is.
Since my last report of winning a tournament with BUG Pod I have taken it to two more tournaments. First a 48 person tournament where I got 3rd, going undefeated in the swiss. Then I won a 42 person tournament with it today, losing one match to Jund. It seems favorable, though. I played against UWR Delver, BR Reanimator ,Miracles, something I can't quite recall, Jund and BUG Delver again in the swiss. In the top 8 I played against Miracles again, and the Affinity. Finally I opted to split top2 with a Merfolk player. I may write a report. I think that the deck is good. Most match ups seem somewhat favorable. Miracles is probably bad, though.
Svknoe, congrats. It would be great if you'd write a report, I'd love to get some more thoughts on the deck. Are you still running the riptide pilferers in the board? I tested vs. miracles a bit and I agree it's not a great matchup. The last and best thing I came up with was boarding into pilferers (taking out some strixs and explorers) to pressure them early. Then at least they're working off the top of their library sooner. Like others have mentioned, cracking explorer early isn't the greatest play against them anyway. I also added the sideboarded Aetherling mostly for that matchup, though it hasn't come up yet in an actual tournament. It's possible that finding room for a needle would be better, though needle is awkward to bring in because you want to destroy counterbalance with your deeds and then that would blow up the needle as well. However, an answer to Top and Jace would be fantastic so it might be worth it (also nice to try to stem the bleeding against dark depths decks)
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GtF
Svknoe, congrats. It would be great if you'd write a report, I'd love to get some more thoughts on the deck. Are you still running the riptide pilferers in the board? I tested vs. miracles a bit and I agree it's not a great matchup. The last and best thing I came up with was boarding into pilferers (taking out some strixs and explorers) to pressure them early. Then at least they're working off the top of their library sooner. Like others have mentioned, cracking explorer early isn't the greatest play against them anyway. I also added the sideboarded Aetherling mostly for that matchup, though it hasn't come up yet in an actual tournament. It's possible that finding room for a needle would be better, though needle is awkward to bring in because you want to destroy counterbalance with your deeds and then that would blow up the needle as well. However, an answer to Top and Jace would be fantastic so it might be worth it (also nice to try to stem the bleeding against dark depths decks)
I like the idea of needle. I have struggled with depths and jace. Needle is good at stopping both. Alternatively, randomly stone raining an opponent when they don't fetch seems fine as well
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
I have a lot of experience playing against UWr Miracles. First of all, veteran + therapy does back fire inmediatly, and Thrun is godlike in this MU.... my list also plays Pod and a lot of creatures on CMC 3-4-5 to get rid off counterbalance (harmonic sliver, wickerbough elder and acidic slime). Slime works to destroy karakas also. Carpet of flowers is a MVP on sb (-4 explorer for 3 carpets).
My list is having a lot of troubles with tempo. So i decided to take out all the cards that are bad against those decks.
My original list had 3 drs (went up to 4), 2 decays and 3 deeds (change for 4 decays 0 deeds) and strangleroot geist as a cmc2 with undying... it is hard to cast with the GG cost on turn 2 and it is only a 2/1 haste that I never want... haste is just an useless hability on this deck... i took out -2 strangleroot and put a full package of SFM + 2 equipments main.
why? because I can... SFM is a roundhouse by its own... its easier to pay 1W than GG on turn 2, trading a veteran for SFM with pod is just nuts... activating SFM for Bskull and then trade it for a cmc 3 is also good. i got tired of playing subotimal cards on curve 2... BUG has baleful strix, I had wall of blossoms? elvish visionary? no thxs.
My final list seems something like this.
Creatures [23]
4 Veteran Explorer = Nic fit Staple, 4 of.
4 Deathrite Shaman = Helps for Pod turn 2 and is just godlike.
4 Stoneforge Mystic = best cmc2 on my colors
1 Gaddock Teeg = hatebear for combo, GSZable
1 Scavenging Ooze = Hatebear against loam decks and counter opposing DRS
1 Kitchen Finks = just value with pod... fine attacker/chumpblocker
1 Eternal Witness = gut shots/value
1 Harmonic Sliver = good against sfm decks
1 Orzhov Pontiff = MVP against elves and tnn decks
1 Thrun, the Last Thrun = MVP against miracles and good equipped with bskull
1 Wickerbough Elder = CMC4 for trade with pod
1 Thragtusk = CMC5 good trade with pod for titan, leaves a body
1 Shriekmaw = take out emrakul with show n tell, goyfs, etc cant be spell pierced on turn 2 against delver
1 Grave Titan = good beater... could be sun titan?
Spells [17]
4 Green Sun's Zenith = good engine, helps to play pod turn 2 on the draw (dryad)
3 Birthing Pod = another engine, cant be decayed
4 Cabal Therapy = protection, synergy with veteran and thragtusk/finks
4 Abrupt Decay = best removal ever... i dont like to ask
1 Batterskull = since I lack of deeds main, these one can help in goblins MU and tempo
1 Umezawa's Jitte = same as bskull, but also helps against elves
Lands [21]
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
//SB [15]
4 Natural Order
1 Ruric
1 Progenitus
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Carpet of Flowers
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
So what's everyone's opinion on the Spirit of The Labyrinth as a sideboard card in rector? I like that I can tutor for it and its cheaper in cmc than nethervoid and happens to be a beat stick. Its probably not all around as useful as nethervoid, but it seems like it stops omnitell and elves somewhat.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Svknoe
Nice result! I haven't tried the Punishing Fire version in a tournament yet, so I can't quite tell what the best option is.
Since my last report of winning a tournament with BUG Pod I have taken it to two more tournaments. First a 48 person tournament where I got 3rd, going undefeated in the swiss. Then I won a 42 person tournament with it today, losing one match to Jund. It seems favorable, though. I played against UWR Delver, BR Reanimator ,Miracles, something I can't quite recall, Jund and BUG Delver again in the swiss. In the top 8 I played against Miracles again, and the Affinity. Finally I opted to split top2 with a Merfolk player. I may write a report. I think that the deck is good. Most match ups seem somewhat favorable. Miracles is probably bad, though.
Post your current list, please? (A)
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GtF
Svknoe, congrats. It would be great if you'd write a report, I'd love to get some more thoughts on the deck. Are you still running the riptide pilferers in the board? I tested vs. miracles a bit and I agree it's not a great matchup. The last and best thing I came up with was boarding into pilferers (taking out some strixs and explorers) to pressure them early. Then at least they're working off the top of their library sooner. Like others have mentioned, cracking explorer early isn't the greatest play against them anyway. I also added the sideboarded Aetherling mostly for that matchup, though it hasn't come up yet in an actual tournament. It's possible that finding room for a needle would be better, though needle is awkward to bring in because you want to destroy counterbalance with your deeds and then that would blow up the needle as well. However, an answer to Top and Jace would be fantastic so it might be worth it (also nice to try to stem the bleeding against dark depths decks)
I will probably do that later today, then. Yes, I am still running the Riptide Pilferers. I still think that they are excellent, at least versus storm based and show and tell combo. I used them against TES in the last tournament, and I think they did fine there. The Miracles match up seems winnable, but it is not favorable. I ended up boarding in 7 cards (I'll try to list them in the report), taking out 7 of Explorer and Therapy. It seems fine to keep one therapy on the play to name top. I have hardly played the match up, so I don't know if my following line of reason is correct. Miracles play very well off the top, so I don't want to devote resources to making them do that. It is of course preferable to them having a full grip, but often enough they will end up playing of the top anyways. It is difficult to play around Terminus. We have to manage our board properly to be able to win. Based on my matches I think that 4 power on the board is pushing over extension (unless it is a single creature, of course). 3 seemed enough to kill a Jace or threaten their life total. The exact number will rely on our precise build and theirs. When we have achieved this slight pressure, they will eventually have to deal with it. In the mean time we can devote our resources to finding and resolving a Pod or a Deed. Because of Detention Sphere I would never try to have more than one of each of these in play simultaneously. I generally also try to not cast an important spell if it is possible that they will counter it. It seemed good to beat for 3 a turn while building up a critical mass of must counter spells in hand, to unleash them into a counter wall in a short time frame. If they are playing of the top, it seems hard to counter 2-4 important spells in a row. I think that our most important spells are Pod, Deed and Glen Elendra Archmage. I think that Envelop is great in the match up, as their two most important spells are Terminus and Entreat.
Regarding Strix and Pilferer. Because such a low amount of power is needed to pressure the miracles opponent, Strix is a fine secondary threat. When I have established a board presence, I expect them to terminus it away if it is important to them. I want to always be able to rebuild my board second main phase. Since it cantrips, Strix is a fine card. Good would be pushing it. I would guess that Pilferer is the better turn two threat, and Strix is better late game. Blocking an angel might be relevant, but not the most important thing to do. Note that I have not actually tried Pilferer against them yet.
I think that explorer is horrible against them in general. Cracking it is detrimental in almost all circumstances. I mostly view it as a 1/1 for 1. Due to death rite and Pod costing 3 mana, I think that BUG Pod is much less reliant on Explorer than other Nic Fit variants. It is still very good in most match ups, but not versus Miracles. My point is that we are fine siding it out. I resolved Ætherling once against them, and died to Entreat with Force back up two turns after that. It seems good, though. I think that it is even better against Shardless, which is still common in my area. Needle does seem a little awkward. My game plan includes blowing deed multiple times per game, making needle unreliable. For another plan it might be good. As for winning against Top and Jace, I did not try to answer them directly, but rather win through them. It seems very doable. We can when versus an online Jace over many turns. I am not saying that we shouldn't get rid of those cards if we can do that cheaply, though.
EDIT:
My current list:
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wood Elves
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Shriekmaw
1 Eternal Witness
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Grave Titan
1 Acidic Slime
1 Thragtusk
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Brainstorm
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Birthing Pod
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Watery Grave
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island
SIDEBOARD
3 Riptide Pilferer
1 Thoughtseize
2 Envelop
4 Force of Will
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Golgari Charm
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Aetherling
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Regarding the Miracles matchup, as seen from the other side: Planeswalkers and/or Chains of Mephistopheles are tough. Even something like Garruk Wildspeaker can be problematic. By all means run your own jaces if you can. Teeg can be nasty, too*. Basically, any threat that cannot be stopped by a single sweeper is good against that deck. On the other hand, the difference between a nimble mongoose and a grave titan isn't as big when playing Miracles as it it for most other decks.
Specifics will vary a bit though. Some run 3 force, 0-1 counterspells and 0-1 snapcaster, relying on stuff like counterbalance, flusterstorm and red elemental blast to control the stack, others have a greater number of generic counters. Some run 3 clique, 2 venser, others none of those. So how hard it will be to resolve a planeswalker or a Deed, and how hard it will be to keep it around, can vary a lot.
If you see enlightened tutor, they likely play the helm/rip-combo, but probably very few, if any, creatures.
I don't think many Miracles players have more than one Detention Sphere in their 75, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. Sweepers take care of multiples of creatures, and against Show and Tell, being vulnerable to red elemental blast is bad. Even if you want the effect, you would often rather register an oblivion ring.
Exchanging Explorer for Carpet seems like a good idea.
Try to not be reliant on the graveyard if you can.
Against an unknown opponent playing something rock-ish, many Miracles players would default to taking out counters (sometimes all of them) in favour of more board control, so take advantage of that if you can.
*These are several different approaches to combat Miracles. No, of course I'm not telling you to load up on teegs, jaces AND chains. Pick your weapons.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
plogan
So what's everyone's opinion on the Spirit of The Labyrinth as a sideboard card in rector? I like that I can tutor for it and its cheaper in cmc than nethervoid and happens to be a beat stick. Its probably not all around as useful as nethervoid, but it seems like it stops omnitell and elves somewhat.
It also happens to be great against jace...
If anything, it would replace faith's fetters most likely. But faith's fetters is much better against other fair decks. Depends on meta I guess. I'll do some testing with it.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Ah yeah forgot about Jace. I think it probably warrants a slot somewhere in the 75/76.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
What do you guys think of Nessian Wilds Ravager as a replacement for the Titans? GSZ-able 6/6 for 6 that either fights a creature when it comes into play, or gets 6 +1+1 counters.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
I think that it seems worse than the titans. Letting you opponent choose is a great draw back. Even if you could have it always be a 12/12, I think I would prefer Grave Titan still for raw power.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Svknoe
I think that it seems worse than the titans. Letting you opponent choose is a great draw back. Even if you could have it always be a 12/12, I think I would prefer Grave Titan still for raw power.
I agree, especially since the board will often be clear.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
What do you guys think of Nessian Wilds Ravager as a replacement for the Titans? GSZ-able 6/6 for 6 that either fights a creature when it comes into play, or gets 6 +1+1 counters.
Doesn't seem good at all to me. The titans are great beaters that also generate massive board advantages if left unchecked. The Ravager is just a really good beater. If they answer a grave titan you still have zombies left. If they answer Ravager you don't have much to show for it.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Also, I'm a deck that commonly plays deeds and walkers and even random artifacts like ours, a lot of the time they may just have like a 6/7 goyf who this man can't even fight profitably then
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Qweerios
What do you guys think of Nessian Wilds Ravager as a replacement for the Titans? GSZ-able 6/6 for 6 that either fights a creature when it comes into play, or gets 6 +1+1 counters.
Polukranos, World Eater seems a bit better for it's cost. Plus it hits multiple targets.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Grave Titan generates tokens for Recurring Nightmare and starts Pod chains for DRS when necessary. I can't ever imagine cutting him from the current style BUG Pod lists.
If I'm going to run a 2nd 6CMC fattie, its going to be Aetherling, Oona or Massacre Wurm at this moment, and I'm alternating between them. However, I've also been experimenting with Fierce Empath, Spike Weaver, and a 2nd Scooze in that slot, and I'm pretty torn between all of them.
I like Spike Weaver a lot right now because it addresses 2 things I have issues with: Goblins and Merfolk. Weaver has been helping me buy time so that I can build board presence and setup a Deed-wipe that hits everything. Also if you can drop it before Elves goes off, you get to just sit there and laugh.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KntrellCL
I have a lot of experience playing against UWr Miracles. First of all, veteran + therapy does back fire inmediatly, and Thrun is godlike in this MU.... my list also plays Pod and a lot of creatures on CMC 3-4-5 to get rid off counterbalance (harmonic sliver, wickerbough elder and acidic slime). Slime works to destroy karakas also. Carpet of flowers is a MVP on sb (-4 explorer for 3 carpets).
My list is having a lot of troubles with tempo. So i decided to take out all the cards that are bad against those decks.
My original list had 3 drs (went up to 4), 2 decays and 3 deeds (change for 4 decays 0 deeds) and strangleroot geist as a cmc2 with undying... it is hard to cast with the GG cost on turn 2 and it is only a 2/1 haste that I never want... haste is just an useless hability on this deck... i took out -2 strangleroot and put a full package of SFM + 2 equipments main.
why? because I can... SFM is a roundhouse by its own... its easier to pay 1W than GG on turn 2, trading a veteran for SFM with pod is just nuts... activating SFM for Bskull and then trade it for a cmc 3 is also good. i got tired of playing subotimal cards on curve 2... BUG has baleful strix, I had wall of blossoms? elvish visionary? no thxs.
My final list seems something like this.
Creatures [23]
4 Veteran Explorer = Nic fit Staple, 4 of.
4 Deathrite Shaman = Helps for Pod turn 2 and is just godlike.
4 Stoneforge Mystic = best cmc2 on my colors
1 Gaddock Teeg = hatebear for combo, GSZable
1 Scavenging Ooze = Hatebear against loam decks and counter opposing DRS
1 Kitchen Finks = just value with pod... fine attacker/chumpblocker
1 Eternal Witness = gut shots/value
1 Harmonic Sliver = good against sfm decks
1 Orzhov Pontiff = MVP against elves and tnn decks
1 Thrun, the Last Thrun = MVP against miracles and good equipped with bskull
1 Wickerbough Elder = CMC4 for trade with pod
1 Thragtusk = CMC5 good trade with pod for titan, leaves a body
1 Shriekmaw = take out emrakul with show n tell, goyfs, etc cant be spell pierced on turn 2 against delver
1 Grave Titan = good beater... could be sun titan?
Spells [17]
4 Green Sun's Zenith = good engine, helps to play pod turn 2 on the draw (dryad)
3 Birthing Pod = another engine, cant be decayed
4 Cabal Therapy = protection, synergy with veteran and thragtusk/finks
4 Abrupt Decay = best removal ever... i dont like to ask
1 Batterskull = since I lack of deeds main, these one can help in goblins MU and tempo
1 Umezawa's Jitte = same as bskull, but also helps against elves
Lands [21]
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
//SB [15]
4 Natural Order
1 Ruric
1 Progenitus
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Carpet of Flowers
I like your Junk Pod list. It is reminiscent of the one I posted a few months back before TNN was released and shares the same core cards (4 GSZ and 4 Decay). It was a successful (not tier 1 though) and very rewarding deck to play. The main change here is that you changed the Rector package (Rector, Deed, Recurring Nightmare) for a SFM package. SFM was something I was contemplating for never got around to it because I would have to let go of the Rector package. It trades late game late debilitating interactions for a lower curve and gives the deck much needed life gain via Jitte and Skull. Here are the things that caught my attention:
-3 Birthing Pods. Playing less than 4 Pods in a non-blue Pod deck seems wrong.
-0 Wall of Blossoms and 4 SFM. Playing 4 SFM with 2 equipments and without Brainstorm generally means that the 2nd or 3rd SFM won't be able to fetch anything. You also have no good Pod bodies to GSZ for at 2 when you wish to Pod into a 3drop. You can do it with Teeg and Ooze but you will forfeit a free draw and lose a silver bullet in the process. Wall of Blossoms is definitely a good card all around for Pod because it is still one of the best 2drop Pod bodies availlable. I think a 3/1 split of SFM/WoB would augment your flexibility and consistency.
-4 Deathrites. Like you, I played both 3 and 4 copies of DRS and they are great t1 plays. Issues arise when I get more than 1 DRS and cannot convert them into anything else because I lack a Pod or have better things to do with my Pod than to pod into a 2drop. It is very difficult to make use of a single DRS at times and activating 2 DRS every turn is extremely rare because a single DRS will generally eat 1 land per turn in a GY and we will then struggle to find the mana to ping for 2 every turn when lands are depleted. I believe 3 DRS is the right number for a Pod deck with 4 GSZ for Arbor and 4 Explorers. The 4th copy is redundant and eats up space.
-0 Murderous Redcap. This card was probably my #1 Pod target even in a Rector-Pod deck. It has so much removal potential and Pod potential in general. It kills 2 toughness creatures upon arival, 1 toughness creatures upon departure (block or pod), grants up to 2 Pod bodies for 5drops, removes loyalty counters from PWs, and much more. Even without Recurring Nightmare I highly recommend this card.
-1 Wickerbough Elder. I never liked this card in Pod or any Nic Fit deck for several reasons. The first is that artifact/enchantment removal is already well represented with 4 Decays, 4 GSZ, 3-4 Pods and 1 Harmonic Sliver. The second is that it is a virtual 5drop because you have to pay additional mana for its effect. At 5 mana, Acidic Slime is much better because it has Deathtouch and can destroy lands.
-0 Restoration Angel. This card is extremely good in any Pod deck in general for several reasons as well. I used to play it religiously in a Rector Pod list, but your version seems an even better fit for it given SFM. A 3/4, Flying, Flash body is a powerful tool in legacy and much needed in this deck. It blocks Delvers and Cliques, cannot be Bolted or Decayed, and carries equipments like a champ. Its flickering ability is great when coupled with virtually all of the Pod creatures as it triggers CiP abilities, leave play abilities, resets Persist/Undying, and saves creatures from targeted removal! Combine her with a Thragtusk or a Titan and you've pretty much clogged the board with value.
Questions and concerns:
How is Gaea's Cradle faring? I think it is an interesting addition but I don't know if the opportunity cost is worth it.
Is Volrath's Stronghold necessary? I know how good it is and how minimal of an investment it appears to be. However, Pod tends tend to only want creatures and lands.
Do you need 4 Forests and 3 Swamps? 8 basic lands is a lot for any Nic Fit deck and a healthy dose of basic lands tend to hover around 5-7. It seems to me like additional fetches would give you more color availability and you could definitely do without the 3rd Swamp and the 4th Forest (even the 3rd).
Why non-green fetches (Marsh Flats)? Green is your primary color and green fetches can grab Dryad Arbor to start Pod chains.
Do Pod decks really need a 6drop in general? Isn't Thrun + Equipments enough to take on most games without having access to any 6drops? I would personally take Sigarda over Grave Titan as a finisher on the top of my curve.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Qweerios
-0 Murderous Redcap. This card was probably my #1 Pod target even in a Rector-Pod deck. It has so much removal potential and Pod potential in general. It kills 2 toughness creatures upon arival, 1 toughness creatures upon departure (block or pod), grants up to 2 Pod bodies for 5drops, removes loyalty counters from PWs, and much more. Even without Recurring Nightmare I highly recommend this card.
Alternatively, playing redcap inspired me to play recurring Nightmare and I have since loved the card.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Qweerios
-3 Birthing Pods. Playing less than 4 Pods in a non-blue Pod deck seems wrong.
Pod isn't always amazing and the deck does run 4 gsz.
Quote:
-0 Murderous Redcap. This card was probably my #1 Pod target even in a Rector-Pod deck. It has so much removal potential and Pod potential in general. It kills 2 toughness creatures upon arival, 1 toughness creatures upon departure (block or pod), grants up to 2 Pod bodies for 5drops, removes loyalty counters from PWs, and much more. Even without Recurring Nightmare I highly recommend this card.
Agreed.
Quote:
Do Pod decks really need a 6drop in general? Isn't Thrun + Equipments enough to take on most games without having access to any 6drops? I would personally take Sigarda over Grave Titan as a finisher on the top of my curve.
6-drops help
Nic fit needs to be threat dense with how much we tend to rely on topdecking
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Qweerios
I like your Junk Pod list. It is reminiscent of the one I posted a few months back before TNN was released and shares the same core cards (4 GSZ and 4 Decay). It was a successful (not tier 1 though) and very rewarding deck to play. The main change here is that you changed the Rector package (Rector, Deed, Recurring Nightmare) for a SFM package. SFM was something I was contemplating for never got around to it because I would have to let go of the Rector package. It trades late game late debilitating interactions for a lower curve and gives the deck much needed life gain via Jitte and Skull. Here are the things that caught my attention:
-3 Birthing Pods. Playing less than 4 Pods in a non-blue Pod deck seems wrong.
-0 Wall of Blossoms and 4 SFM. Playing 4 SFM with 2 equipments and without Brainstorm generally means that the 2nd or 3rd SFM won't be able to fetch anything. You also have no good Pod bodies to GSZ for at 2 when you wish to Pod into a 3drop. You can do it with Teeg and Ooze but you will forfeit a free draw and lose a silver bullet in the process. Wall of Blossoms is definitely a good card all around for Pod because it is still one of the best 2drop Pod bodies availlable. I think a 3/1 split of SFM/WoB would augment your flexibility and consistency.
-4 Deathrites. Like you, I played both 3 and 4 copies of DRS and they are great t1 plays. Issues arise when I get more than 1 DRS and cannot convert them into anything else because I lack a Pod or have better things to do with my Pod than to pod into a 2drop. It is very difficult to make use of a single DRS at times and activating 2 DRS every turn is extremely rare because a single DRS will generally eat 1 land per turn in a GY and we will then struggle to find the mana to ping for 2 every turn when lands are depleted. I believe 3 DRS is the right number for a Pod deck with 4 GSZ for Arbor and 4 Explorers. The 4th copy is redundant and eats up space.
-0 Murderous Redcap. This card was probably my #1 Pod target even in a Rector-Pod deck. It has so much removal potential and Pod potential in general. It kills 2 toughness creatures upon arival, 1 toughness creatures upon departure (block or pod), grants up to 2 Pod bodies for 5drops, removes loyalty counters from PWs, and much more. Even without Recurring Nightmare I highly recommend this card.
-1 Wickerbough Elder. I never liked this card in Pod or any Nic Fit deck for several reasons. The first is that artifact/enchantment removal is already well represented with 4 Decays, 4 GSZ, 3-4 Pods and 1 Harmonic Sliver. The second is that it is a virtual 5drop because you have to pay additional mana for its effect. At 5 mana, Acidic Slime is much better because it has Deathtouch and can destroy lands.
-0 Restoration Angel. This card is extremely good in any Pod deck in general for several reasons as well. I used to play it religiously in a Rector Pod list, but your version seems an even better fit for it given SFM. A 3/4, Flying, Flash body is a powerful tool in legacy and much needed in this deck. It blocks Delvers and Cliques, cannot be Bolted or Decayed, and carries equipments like a champ. Its flickering ability is great when coupled with virtually all of the Pod creatures as it triggers CiP abilities, leave play abilities, resets Persist/Undying, and saves creatures from targeted removal! Combine her with a Thragtusk or a Titan and you've pretty much clogged the board with value.
Questions and concerns:
How is Gaea's Cradle faring? I think it is an interesting addition but I don't know if the opportunity cost is worth it.
Is Volrath's Stronghold necessary? I know how good it is and how minimal of an investment it appears to be. However, Pod tends tend to only want creatures and lands.
Do you need 4 Forests and 3 Swamps? 8 basic lands is a lot for any Nic Fit deck and a healthy dose of basic lands tend to hover around 5-7. It seems to me like additional fetches would give you more color availability and you could definitely do without the 3rd Swamp and the 4th Forest (even the 3rd).
Why non-green fetches (Marsh Flats)? Green is your primary color and green fetches can grab Dryad Arbor to start Pod chains.
Do Pod decks really need a 6drop in general? Isn't Thrun + Equipments enough to take on most games without having access to any 6drops? I would personally take Sigarda over Grave Titan as a finisher on the top of my curve.
Thanks for your response and you are right in a lot of points. I didnt like any of my CMC2 on GSZ so I just took them out (wall of blossoms, strangleroot geist, etc) so finally I put my SFM package. I made some changes today before the tournament.
1. I like Pod but drawing them in multiples early game is not good, plus 4 gsz you can fetch almost everything.
2. Doing a GSZ for Wall of blossoms was pretty lame for me... 1G 0/4 random draw vs 1G opposing goyf? no thxs... 1W 1/2 Bskull draw seems better.
3. DRS is godlike and helps for the curve (i had to go up to 7-8 fetchs for them)
4. Murderous Redcap just dont make the cut for me... i had 1 in sb though.
5. You are right, i talked to a friend and took out some of my silver bullets for some bombs... put Linvala instead of Wickerbough
6. I used to play Resto angel (2 copies) and I put them back today... they are just so very good, and flying is also a valuable thing with equipments... being cmc4 is good against decay also and out of bolt range...
Answers:
1. Not being able to fetch gaea cradle anytime I want was bad... it was very random and clogged some initial hands.
2. Volrath's Stronghold is good enough to ensure your top decks... but it is not necessary... just helpful
3. Today I played 3 forest 3 swamp 1 plains and 7 fetchs to feed DRS.
4. I took out marsh flats... not being able to fetch dryad was my main reason.
5. Again, you make your point... Grave titan is great... it must be for 6 mana... but leaving my curve to 5 seems good and I love sigarda as a beater... today I took some games with resto angel equipped... and I would be happy to trade resto for sigarda...
My final list is:
Pod Rock
Lands [21]
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dryad Arbor
Creatures [23]
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Restoration Angel
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Spells [17]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Birthing Pod
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sb:
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
1 Ruric
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Redcap Morderous
1 Orzhov Pontiff
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Re: Dark Depths. I agree here. That card was printed to kill nic fit. Sure, you can play a karakas or StP in your decks but they will only buy you a turn or two since those decks are normaly playing loam, wastelands and crucible (oh and if you destroy curcible they got academy ruins)
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
In the stage depths match up, getting active scavenging ooze seems to be the key.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
In the stage depths match up, getting active scavenging ooze seems to be the key.
I play 2 Pithing Needle in my current Sideboard.
My Maindeck Defense is 1 Deathrite, 1 Ooze, 1 Pulse and 3 Lilianas. The Sorcery-Speed Solutions only work if you get a lifegain online (Thragtusk, Huntmaster etc.), so they can't "Oneshot" you with EoT Token and Attack.
Sideboard Support contains one more Deathrite, 2 Needles and 2 Extractions. Needles helped a lot to avoid the EoT-Attack-Kill. Extraction, Ooze and Deathrite can fight the loam plan, which is the common way (besides Crop Rotation) to get the Lands Combo in Play.
With Needles it is still a hard matchup but you get a opportunity to fight back. Without Needles you can only pray to catch them off-guard if they use loam and you get Ooze online.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
I play 2 Pithing Needle in my current Sideboard.
My Maindeck Defense is 1 Deathrite, 1 Ooze, 1 Pulse and 3 Lilianas. The Sorcery-Speed Solutions only work if you get a lifegain online (Thragtusk, Huntmaster etc.), so they can't "Oneshot" you with EoT Token and Attack.
Sideboard Support contains one more Deathrite, 2 Needles and 2 Extractions. Needles helped a lot to avoid the EoT-Attack-Kill. Extraction, Ooze and Deathrite can fight the loam plan, which is the common way (besides Crop Rotation) to get the Lands Combo in Play.
With Needles it is still a hard matchup but you get a opportunity to fight back. Without Needles you can only pray to catch them off-guard if they use loam and you get Ooze online.
Marit Lage is indestructible so Pulse won't work at all.
Everything else is correct.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
My Maindeck Defense is 1 Deathrite, 1 Ooze, 1 Pulse and 3 Lilianas.
The pulse doesn't work because the token is indestructible.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Qweerios
I really think 4 drs is the correct number. I would play at least 21 lands as minimum... i finally cut the volraths stronghold, but phyrexian tower is just a must have.
I dont feel comfortable playing wall of blossoms... is so underpower compared to others cmc2 (bob, goyf, etc), my deck list plays teeg and ooze to gsz... both of those cards wins against the matches i want them, if not, i will be happy to trade them with pod. May be some deeds on your 75? Also, thrun is great against miracles
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Stages Depths is hard to manage when they go off with Living Wish/Crop Rotation for Hex Mage/Stage/Depths. There is only little interactions to be had there and it all occurs so fast. I don't think this matchup is worth trying to improve since it is so obscure and difficult. Compare it to 12 Post if you will.
@Kentrell,
During several games I couldn't use more than a single DRS' mana producing ability and had more pressing things to do than pay mana to ping my opponent. When you draw 2 you just hope your opponent removes him so you can get a bit of value out of your cards...
Wall of Blossoms is one of my most sought after GSZ and Pod targets when building a chain. You don't always want equipments, casting your equipments the following turns isn't always the optimal play, and Jittes/Batterskulls aren't always the most relevant things in every matchup. I favor Blossom over SFM in a lot of tempo matchups as well when I know my opponent is holding removal, then there is simply no value in drawing a Jitte or a BSkull when you are being pressured by a creature that Blossoms can block.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
I decided to try cutting rector. I'm replacing it with a diabolic intent which is useful in all matchups (gets SB cards like thalia or thoughtseize g2-g3). Rector was my go-to card in order to start recurring nightmare insanity against fair decks but without a pod its hard to get going. Intent for recurring nightmare seems like it could work. Considering that this deck is built to crush all fair matchups, would it make sense to include thalia or the new spirit maindeck? Right now I'm testing 3 thalia main and 3 spirit sb. I'm also considering another Teeg in the sb to to bring in vs combo and to help in the miracles matchup. I'm also going to test pithing needle. Here's my list so far:
3 deathrite shaman
4 veteran explorer
1 gaddock teeg
2 wall of blossoms
1 strangleroot geist
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
1 scavenging ooze
1 boneshredder
1 kitchen finks
1 eternal witness
1 harmonic sliver
1 thrun the last troll
1 restoration angel
1 murderous redcap
1 thragtusk
1 shriekmaw
1 sigarda, host of herons
4 green sun's zenith
4 cabal therapy
4 birthing pod
1 diabolic intent
1 recurring nightmare
lands (21)
1 dryad arbor
3 bayou
1 savannah
1 scrubland
1 plains
2 swamp
4 forest
3 windswept heath
1 misty rainforest
4 verdant catacombs
sideboard:
3 thoughtseize
2 surgical extraction
3 abrupt decay
1 pernicious deed
1 orzhov pontif
1 fleshbag marauder
3 spirit of the labyrinth
1 Gaddock Teeg
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
I don't like multiple copies of thalia because we can't get value off of it by sacing it to pod or looping it with nightmare and it doesn't immediately win the game in certain matchups like Teeg or Canonist do. Though it's probably worth testing. I really like Spirit, it hurts almost every deck we struggle with at the moment.
Rector is really weird, because when you don't have a sac outlet she feels very underwhelming, but in the right moments she can be exactly what you need. I'm having a hard time evaluating her.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Pod doesn't really beat all fair decks. The assumption that Nic Fit is good against midrange is pretty much based on 4 copies of Deed, and Pod plays none. Thalia is a step in the wrong direction as it is usually as good against us as it is against our opponents. Lab Spirit is sweet but falls under the category of 2 CMC Silver bullets that cannot be GSZ'ed...
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Spirit can be rectored out.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Courser of Kruphix 1GG
Enchantment Creature - Centaur (R)
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
You may play the top card of your library if it's a land card.
Whenever a land ETB under your control, gain 1 life.
2/4
I like the guy...
What do you think ?
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Qweerios
Pod doesn't really beat all fair decks. The assumption that Nic Fit is good against midrange is pretty much based on 4 copies of Deed, and Pod plays none. Thalia is a step in the wrong direction as it is usually as good against us as it is against our opponents. Lab Spirit is sweet but falls under the category of 2 CMC Silver bullets that cannot be GSZ'ed...
I guess you're right about Thalia. Maybe the Spirit will be more worthwhile but I'm still not sure if it's worth it in the main. After all, 2 stoneforge + 2 equipments could be in its place. However, I am very sure it will improve the show and tell matchup (which is kind of terrible atm) to stop their cantrips early game and to shut off griselbrand. Plus it hits for 3.
In my experience, Pod still does extremely well vs fair/midrange due to pod into rector--> recurring nightmare ---> thragtusk/shriekmaw. It was even more stupid at the time when I played Reveillark/Sun Titan (when deathrite and RiP didn't exist). Adding stoneforge seems to make the matchup even better.
My main concern now is the Miracles matchup. I think we need Thrun and Sigarda in the main. Something I'm extremely considering is a maindeck Taiga with 4 Slaughter Games in the board. Every Jund Nic Fit report I come across always seems to include wins against miracles because of this card...not to mention it helps against combo as well! With Deathrites, Thrun, Sigarda, Abrupt Decay, Gaddock Teeg and Slaughter Games I think we have a chance.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Played last night and went 0-2. Ive lost confidence in the deck tbh. Round 1 vs Esper Blade. He just ran me out of threats. Literally 18 of my 22 creatures were exiled or in the yard. The game went to 5 minutes left in the round and I just conceded. Gave him the match. He STP's twice, snapped it back once, Supreme Verdict twice, and snapped it back once. Again, batterskull got online and I couldnt beat it. They key in the game was when he was at 2 life, I hade Scooze and 2 Pods on board. I pod away my scooze, planning to get into Murderous Redcap range. Unfortunately my only 3 drop left was Fleshbag Maurauder. Then I got the bye, then lost to Jund Depths. I did get Aetherling online in G2 and won the game. G3 he just naturally got into Marit Lage on T3 and I died.
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
Played last night and went 0-2. Ive lost confidence in the deck tbh. Round 1 vs Esper Blade. He just ran me out of threats. Literally 18 of my 22 creatures were exiled or in the yard. The game went to 5 minutes left in the round and I just conceded. Gave him the match. He STP's twice, snapped it back once, Supreme Verdict twice, and snapped it back once. Again, batterskull got online and I couldnt beat it. They key in the game was when he was at 2 life, I hade Scooze and 2 Pods on board. I pod away my scooze, planning to get into Murderous Redcap range. Unfortunately my only 3 drop left was Fleshbag Maurauder. Then I got the bye, then lost to Jund Depths. I did get Aetherling online in G2 and won the game. G3 he just naturally got into Marit Lage on T3 and I died.
What's your list like? Sounds like in both matchups could've been helped by boarding in Pithing Needles (first for Batterskull, then the second for Thespian's Stage).
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
Played last night and went 0-2. Ive lost confidence in the deck tbh. Round 1 vs Esper Blade. He just ran me out of threats. Literally 18 of my 22 creatures were exiled or in the yard. The game went to 5 minutes left in the round and I just conceded. Gave him the match. He STP's twice, snapped it back once, Supreme Verdict twice, and snapped it back once. Again, batterskull got online and I couldnt beat it. They key in the game was when he was at 2 life, I hade Scooze and 2 Pods on board. I pod away my scooze, planning to get into Murderous Redcap range. Unfortunately my only 3 drop left was Fleshbag Maurauder. Then I got the bye, then lost to Jund Depths. I did get Aetherling online in G2 and won the game. G3 he just naturally got into Marit Lage on T3 and I died.
Why would you play fleshBAD marauder? Against tnn orzhov pontiff is better.... against show n tell, bone shredder can kill emrakul for the same cmc3.
Also, playing 4 drs gives you control of the gy (snapcaster)
-
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EpicLevelCommoner
What's your list like? Sounds like in both matchups could've been helped by boarding in Pithing Needles (first for Batterskull, then the second for Thespian's Stage).
The first match up was all one long game. It went forty five minutes. Yeah needle is a card I like a lot. I'm on BUG pod. Orzohv pontiff isn't really an option
