Tried a 2 Ad Naus 15 land list today. Made me want to vomit. W/o Wish to go to 7-8 tutors (even if Wish doesn't hit the actual wins) you just brick.
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Tried a 2 Ad Naus 15 land list today. Made me want to vomit. W/o Wish to go to 7-8 tutors (even if Wish doesn't hit the actual wins) you just brick.
Has anyone tried playing reanimate in the SB?
The only disadvantage of playing a faster build. I have only -1 business than you but I couldn't argue with your experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriLax
The advantage of a faster build is you don't lose momentum if you mulligan. You can brick on tutors without accelerants the same way you can draw blanks, it's all variance to me.
Regarding Reanimate, it's too random. You Reanimate Jin, they can Reanimate Iona or Sphinx and eat him alive.
Part of the issue is that Ad Naus is not castable off LED most of the time, makes things fairly awkward.Quote:
Originally Posted by death
It comes up once in a while, but eventually becomes OK after I imprint 1 Ad Naus on Mox then go IT, crack LED for the other Ad Naus. Also with Brainstorm/Probe, I can BS to put AdN on top, cast LED, Probe, crack LED. The deck is fluid but I agree it might be running thin on threats. I might think of adding a singleton Grim Tutor or just practice shuffling/mulliganing into nut draws. When David Mayer piloted ANT to a win at Atlanta, I overheard him saying he was mulliganing all day, and that was a deck with 10 business spells (4MT+4IT+2AdN) lol.
Hi there fellow storm players.
I am consideing going to GP Amsterdam. Thing is, I haven't really played competetive magic pretty much since the printing of Mental Misstep. Now that the beast is dead, my goal is to put together ANT list with new meta in mind.
My starting point is straight UB list with Grim Tutors that got popularized by Ari Lax. I really enjoyed stability and consistency it provided.
My initial assumption is that Snapcaster Mage is going to be big. Subsequently, SCM + Spell Snare > SCM, so I assume blue tempo is going to be big. Therefore Wasteland resistant manabase seems good.
Options:
1) stay UB
2) splash G
3) splash W
I do not consider 4c or rainbow good idea.
ad 1) only discard as protection < SM
ad 2) while I like both Xantid Swarm and Carpet of Flowers, they both want / need to be cast early, exposing me to geeting wasted
ad 3) Silence / Orim's Chant seems like the way to go
Issue 2: Grim Tutor. While I liked this card in straight UB, I think given the W splash, I want to replace it with Cunning Wish - maily due to color reasons (I don't like BB + splashing W). Truth is, I have never played this card outside of brief Spiral Tide era.
proposed maindeck:
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
2 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
16x land, 2x W source, 9x fetch (all able to get W), 3x basic, 9/7 fetch/non-fetch ratio. BTW I really liked playing 17x land 0x Chrome Mox in the old list, but since I'm putting Chrome Moxes back, I'm also cutting a land. See below.
4 Duress
3 Silence
IMO 7 protection spells pre-board is the right number. Not 100% sure about the split.
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Chrome Mox
I really don't like the dis-synergy between Cabal Ritual and Chrome Mox. I really want not to play Chrome Moxes at all. But I see no way around these numbers.
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
One more Preordain would be optimal, but I don't know what to cut, if anything.
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Cunning Wish
The biggest change, besides splashing W. I kind of like the Cunning Wish on paper. If anyone has experience with playing this in ANT list, please let me know how it plays.
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
Sideboarding plans are really draft ATM than anything else.
What I want:
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Brain Freeze
1 Angel's Grace
1 Silence / Orim's Chant
1 Pact of Negation
1+ Wipe Away
1+ Echoing Truth
1+ Rebuild
Additional considerations:
- Defense Grid: seems good against tempo, although is susceptible to Spell Snare itself. No idea if playing it alongside Silence / Chant is good idea.
- Thoughtseize / Inquisition of Kozilek: could be useful against permanent based hate, although with C-Wish probably not needed.
- Dark Confidant: never liked this guy in combo (tested him multiple times), although I'm fully aware that there definitely are players who play him and like him. Truth is, he actually might be good against heavy discard in this particular list, at the very least to replace Silence.
- Chain of Vapor / Hurkyl's Recall: One Chain might be OK, otherwise seems like my bounce needs should be covered.
My concerns so far:
1) Is there a way to build stable UBw manabase with Cunning Wish in mind without playing Chrome Moxes?
2) Defense Grid in SB?
3) Dark Confidant in SB?
4) Anything useful for sideboard that I have overlooked (BTW I do not think DD>Shelldock>Emrakul is needed)?
5) Sideboarding procedure while playing Cunning Wish. Basicly, is the correct way to approach this to side out C-Wish and side in what you would normally wish for or leave C-Wish in MD, one copy of desired SB card in SB, side in the rest and side out something else?
Any intelligent criticism / thoughts / suggestions are welcome
- Vilik
TL;DR
ANT for GP Amsterdam meta should play Cunning Wish and splash white for Silence / Chant.
As I can recall the pre-misstep era 2 storm guys I meet at tournaments often had played +/- 1,2 cards exactly the same list after banning of Mystical Tutor and played it until printing of misstep, so I guess it works well
I guess that might be because I'm one of them :) Or at least I belong(ed) to the same meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
On topic:
I'm still contemplating going -2x Chrome Mox, +1x U-fetch, +1x Preordain to the above list.
Yeah, I probably should get my my arse to the local store and get some games in to test this thing...
I'd be interested with the results, t4 Ad Nauseam against Zoo/Burn/Goblins worries me. You may sidestep a Snare by going C-Wish > AdN but Snare can still smack you unless you draw Duress or Tendrils. By t4, Snapcaster Mage is already online so I'm not convinced if C-Wish is a big improvement against it. Also, naturally drawing 3 lands and avoiding Wastelands/Stifle can be difficult. How about Lim-Dul's Vault, if it gets Snared just dig for IT or AdN as usual, at the least it baits a counter and you can set up drawing your Duresses/Tutor/Rituals with it.
After 100 goldfishes with my list on the previous page, here are the resuts:
t2 - 70% (+/- Duress/Pact protection)
t1/t3 - 30%
Haha, RTFLocation =)Quote:
Originally Posted by vilik
Hey everyone.
Yesterday I went to a ~40 people tournament playing ANT.
List:
3 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 LED
4 Lotus Petal
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Ad Nauseam
1 Ill-gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
Sideboard:
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Tropical Island
3 Dark Confidant
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Thoughtseize
Round1 - B/g Smallpox:
lost the die roll
Game 1 - I win pretty easy with AN. I board in Bobs, because I thought he boards out his Smallpox. They don't do much against me.
Game 2 - My Bob gets blown up by smallpox + double Hymn and I can't recover. Well... Bobs go out again. xD
Game 3 - AN turn two with no Land drop that Turn. I reveal(relevant things only): LED, LED, IGG, DRit, AN, Tendrils, IT, IT and some lands in between. No Petal though -.- . I realise I need one more mana to IGG and Tendrils him and have 3 life left. Revealing Thoughseize and Cabal. -.-
0:1
Round 2 - R/g Goblins:
I win the dice.
Game 1 - After he fetches Taiga first turn and playing Lackey I know I have a little time to set up IGG. I do so and win on turn 3 or so.
Game 2 - He mulligans once. So do I. He starts slow and without hate. I play Duress on turn 2 looking for Mindbreak Trap and see nothing relevant and kill him with AN on turn 3.
1:1
Round 3 - WGB Recurringmightmareandrampstuff.dec
He wins the dieroll
Game 1 - He plays Plains on Turn 1 and Forest on Turn two. I just kill him after that. I could have gone for it Turn 1, but without mana Floating and I was not sure he's nonblue.
Game 2 - I fail to bounce his teeg for about 7 Turns with multiple Ponders and Preordains holding the Combo in hand. -.-
Game 3 - I Thoughtseize him turn 1 seeing Extirpate, Mindbreak and Thoughtseize but no Black mana source so I take the Mindbreak Trap. He Plays no black mana on his turn. I IGG him with enough mana to recast Thoughseize after it for Mindbreak trap and still Tendrils him for 22.
2:1
Round 4 - Affinity With Stoneforge and Batterskull
Game 1 - I draw the win on turn two and that's what I do. =)
Game 2 - He's got lethal on Board at some point and I lack one Ritual or an LED to go off. HE attacks with Ornithopter, SFM+Cranial and Master of Etherium. He has Mox Opal, Inkmoth Nexus an Ancient Den and Springleaf Drum. I bounce His SFM even though I realize he can produce BB to attach his plating to the Ornithopter. I doubt I would have drawn anything that won me the game, but okay. I still suck. ;)
Game 3 - I draw the IGG on turn 2 and he does not draw Ethersworn so I win.
3:1
At this point I am happy to not have a negative Record and not facing a single blue Deck all day.
Round 5 - GW
He wins the dieroll
I remember that guy as he sat next to me round 1. He told me he only has Mindbreak and 3 Surgical Extraction in his Sideboard for this matchup and I remeber that. =)
Game 1 - I win with IGG turn 3 after Thoughtseizing turn 2 taking his GSZ (which wanted to get a Teeg) .
Game 2 I ponder turn one. He EOT extracts it taking the one in my hand with it. :(
I need some time to get all the Combo parts and he uses the time to blow up my Island with Beast Within - lucky me I have 3 more fetches in hand getting basics to dodge his two Wastelands. I attack two times taking him down to 11 before finding AN and killing him with Tendrils. =)
4:1
Round 6 - Enchantress
I am 8th after Round 5 and I hope to play against the 7th who's on Enchantress (basically I only wnated to get paired against him, because he's the only nonblue Deck in the top8). That is what happens. After we sit down he offers a draw pointing out we're both safely in top8 and I agree. I never played against Enchantress and know little to nothing about the Deck. 8th playing the Deck on a tournament for the first time seems really good to me. We play it out for fun and practise anyways.
he wins the dieroll.
Game 1 - I keep the first turn kill when I find a mana source: LED, LED, IT, Petal, Cabal, Thoughtseize, CoV. I draw for the turn. Island. YES! First and only turn1 kill that day. =)
Game 2 - Multiple Mulligans on my side and I cant get back fast enough to bounce all the problematic permanents.
Game 3 - He starts with 3(!!!!) Leyline of Sanctity in play. I CoV one of them end of his turn. Playing AN with Petal in play. I reveal (only relevant): LED, Dark Ritual, Petal, Petal, IGG, CoV, IT, IT. I have 3 life and need one mana source to IGG him and play one CoV before it and one after. I reveal the next card: Tendrils. :(
Well good we ID'ed. After the final round prices are given to the top8. Last name on the list is not me. Someone had a better OW% and won last round having 13 points as well. Hmm well... I guess 9th is still good enough for me. =)
4 : 1 : 1
Well so all in all I was really happy with the Deck. I still want to get one Grim Tutor and exchange the second AN for it, but for now I like the Deck. I had very nice opponents all day. All in all an awesome day of Magic.
I was able to play ANT for the first time at a local Legacy tournament, I subbed Inquisitions for most of the Thoughtseizes to try it out, and ran only one Grim Tutor due to some card availability:
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
1 Grim Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Island
2 Swamp
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
2 Rebuild
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Cremate
I went 4-0/8-0 Inquisition hit what I would have taken with thoughtseize each time (although it could bite me not being able to hit FOW) so it needs more testing. The ETW was pretty sweet against the one Hymn to Tourach deck I played against, unfortunately no one played Re-animator so I didnt get to see if Cremate was the correct choice.
Fortunately you didn't have to play reanimator so you could go 4-0, that match up is not too hot.Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hdh
How was the EtW on side?
It was pretty sweet, I was able to do a small storm on T3 netting 10 Goblins to go with my Confidant which earned the scoop. Granted he didnt get to disrupt me as much as I am sure he would like but I think it is worth a slot for those matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia_Bot
It wasn't - but you are not too far away from it. The card you are looking for is Extirpate.Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hdh
Trading 'draw a card' for 'can't be countered' and 'let me look at your hand' isn't too bad, is it?
I agree. I would rather not draw a card then having my graveyard removal dazed or forced resulting in facing jin-gitaxias or Iona.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Has anyone been seriously testing Probe and how does one feel about it? Instead of what? cantrips/Discards?
A person in our group tested Probe. We started with Ari's list and cut two lands and two Grim Tutors. We also cut two Preordain for two Chrome Mox in an attempt to speed the list up. It tested alright against Merfolk and RUG. In the aggro match up, the life loss from Probe rarely caused any issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azdraël
However, we found the decks running a high number of counters like UW and BUG (both tempo and control) were somewhat more difficult to deal with. In those match ups, we found Probe to be underwhelming and found ourselves wanting the 11th and 12th Preordains to dig deeper for answers. We thought about going testing a list that cut two lands and two Grim Tutors and not including the Chrome Mox, but we opted to revert back to Ari's original list because we felt it was stronger against the counter heavy decks. This is especially true now since Spell Snare plus Snapcaster Mage makes running a list with only four Infernal Tutor very risky. Grim Tutor has become better since most lists are moving toward the inclusion of Spell Snare over Spell Pierce.
We also found Probe to be somewhat awkward with Ad Nauseam since you need to count it as minus three life you plan on casting it.
Actually, it is. I would rather be able to cycle my hate card when I don't need it than have it be dead if they get to go off with a Force still up (GL winning then anyways) (also, see Rebuild vs. Hurkyl's Recall).Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord