With running less than 4 you lessen the chance to actually find one or have one in your opener...
Mitigating this with Wishes slows you down and speed is crucial.
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With running less than 4 you lessen the chance to actually find one or have one in your opener...
Mitigating this with Wishes slows you down and speed is crucial.
Silent Requiem, a former solidarity player was/is a strong defender of 3 HT MD and 1 in the side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentient6
The main reason is that you may lose a bit of speed for more consistency.
Why ? Because you will lose games where you dig 20+ cards and fail to find a HT to go-off.
Having access to potentially 6 HT reduces the odds of not seeing one.
And it also reduces the chance of being able to combo on Turn 2 or 3 as well as taking up a valuable SB slot.
Seeing more than 20 cards without hitting HT is a rare cornercase and not worth exploring imo.
Not so rare, unfortunately, and that's why solidarity is no longer as much played as it was in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDK
A lot of high tide players went for the spiral version as you have access to powerful cantrips at sorcery speed which help you dig for missing combo pieces or lands faster & better.
Not to mention that the crucial turn is generally speaking faster (T4 for HT + spiral) and usually more consistent, mainly because it is basically a 2 card combo vs 3 for solidarity (HT,reset & meditate).
Solidarity rules the stack, nevertheless, but it takes more time to sculpt your hand.
There were a lot of people trying to make solidarity a T3 combo-kill deck.
As for now, the most tuned ones (toward kill speed) are taking the SCM + SNAP road in order to be able to kill on T2/T3 (more likely T3).
But the consistency of such a path is very poor once you add opponent's interactions into the equation.
Being removal proof / gravehate proof is a thing in legacy.
Games 1 against fair decks are usually ours (like a lot of combo.deck)
It gets harder G2 & G3.
I don't see the point of improving our kill speed G1 when the only thing that really matter is consistency over 2 or 3 games to actually win a match.
I did test SCM+SNAP heavy config to know if that route could be the one we are looking for.
My answer is no. Indeed, you are sometime able to kill faster but it is way easier for your opponent to interact G2 & G3.
Overall results were just plain worse.
Actually , I will add that the 3 HT config is certainly the fastest and safer one in terms of killing consistency speed (I tested it but I don't play it).
Why ?
Because you have just more virtual HT in your deck which means that you will likely have more chance to try to combo on T4 with a HT in hand (being it wished for at EOT of T3 or you just have it).
But, as you mentioned, I also don't like having to spend a wish for a HT, as I found that it slightly increases your mid combo fizzle rate overall.
I have to agree on Hellspawn here.
Running 3 High Tide maindeck is obviously wrong. Spending you turns cantripping for combo pieces is rough. Don't make it even worse.
I have left this deck alone a long time ago? Why? If you can't win counterwars to push your combo, you won't win.
The deck is awesome to play, is awesome to goldfish, is awesome to run in tournaments. But don't expect this deck to money-finish any tournaments except for your your occassional LGS-tournament.
Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy to discuss a workable list, but I don't feel like discussing whether or not you should run 3 or 4 High Tides.
EDIT: Even running C.Wish in a build with Dig Through Time is not needed at all. Simple goldfishing will get you there.
The big question is, how to consecutively win counterwars and continue the combo.
I've been tweaking with Disrupt and Remand, but this doesn't get me far.
Running mainboard Pact, Trap? :really:
My initial attempt at a Dig Through Time version of the deck:
4 High Tide
4 Reset
3 Turnabout
3 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Snap
1 Brain Freeze
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
2 Peek
2 Opt
1 Remand
4 Force of Will
3 Flusterstrorm
2 Dig Through Time
6 Fetch
12 Island
SB:
1 Meditate
1 Blue Sun’s Zenith
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
2 Wipe Away
1 Turnabout
1 Brain Freeze
1 Swan Song
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Split Decision
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Remand
If I were to cut Cunning Wishes, I'd probably do so for 1 BSZ, 1-2 Dig Through Time, 0-1 Remand. I might actually cut the last snapcaster in that case as well, but I still like having one around, I'd just have to be careful about planning what I keep to flashback when delving. Going to test the list above first against a gamut tonight, and see how it feels.
Well I can't see how you are losing "counterwars" as most standard lists are packing "X" flusterstorm MD...Quote:
Originally Posted by Spigore
For example vs Canadian, you're on his turn 5, lethal incoming.
You missed a land drop, so you're at both let's say 3 lands.
You cast Tide which will obviously resolve. Add 4 mana in your pool, cast Reset.
He Spell Snares your Reset. You force it. He forces back. You fluster. He taps for 6 mana, you scoop with 2 mana in your pool, 5 cards spent, 2 cards left in your hand.
Basically, a combination of 2-3 counters makes you lose the counterwar. Daze being the easiest to deal with, can be a sucker when cast properly on your High Tide. Believe me, this is very common.
Postboard you're dealing with your enemies Pyroblasts and Flusters. :laugh:
Team America is a whole different story. The combination of a well hitted Hymn to Tourach with a fast clock is insane.
Luckily, this match is occasionally better than Canadian. If they tend to draw more creatures than Hymn/Liliana, this should get better.
Again, if you consecutively want to win counterwars, something has to change MD.
Pact seems appealing for this, but then again is very narrow.
In your example, you actually counter the FOW as your opponent has only 5 mana left (because he paid 1 for snare). So your reset shall resolve with 1 mana floating and 3 untapped island => you should be more than ready to make him sweat but only if you have a strong dig/draw spell in your hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spigore
From what I can read, imho, your problem is not "counterwars". It is drawing / having enough cards left to attempt to go-off after passing the counter barrier/discard shield.
I have one question. Does the card Split Decison, from the set Conspiracy, fill with the deck?
I guess you are looking at a new "Twincast".Quote:
Originally Posted by fuga
But as far as Solidarity is concerned, the easier CMC to cast does not make this card any better than a good old twincast.
Maybe you could play it as a 1-of between MD & Side.
Testing with Dig Through Time has been very promising. The card advantage has been great for pulling back towards critical mass against discard-heavy decks, to the point where it won me a game against deathblade through double thoughtseize into resolved liliana. I still think 2 copies is the right number, and I still like having cunning wishes in the deck. The one snapcaster has felt about right, the one Snap has been a little situational, so I'm tempted to cut it if it continues to test badly. The maindeck flusterstorms are nice, but I'm often finding that I want to counter planeswalkers or Counterbalance/top, Which makes me want to switch one out for a spell pierce. Finally, I think I'd like to find room in the SB for Hydroblast, since Eidolon of the Great Revel has been revitalizing burn, and it's still useful enough against anyone with REB, Sneak and Show, UR delver. The second Wipe Away would probably be my cut, though if I wanted two Blasts, i'm not sure what else would go. For now, I like having the extra snapcaster and remand in the board for decks with 4 eldrazi, though that's still the least tested past of my SB. What does everyone think?
I haven't yet tried to develop a list with dig through time. Naturally we will run the card, it is the best thing for this deck in a long while as cards that make the cut in this deck are rarely printed since we're looking for better card draw, countermagic, and blue instants in general. WotC has gotten really creature friendly. Cards that could be cut for DTT:
Snapcaster mage
Cunning wish
Those, to me, are the slots. Both are not very good with DTT as wish exiles itself/doesn't reduce the cost and snapcaster is bad when you exile your graveyard to cast DTT for the least possible ideally UU. Another plus over DTT over wish and snapcaster is that it costs far less as wish adds 3 mana to whatever you get and doesn't inherently produce card advantage. Snapcaster really just adds 2 mana to cast anything from the yard as the body is irrelevant short of snap shenanigans that open us up to creature removal/is less than ideal. When you look at 7 cards you're likely to find what wish/snapcaster would have found anyways AND you get an extra card on top of that. DTT'ing into, say, reset + meditate is nothing short of obscene when combo'ing. Another really, really nice thing about DTT is that it's a shuffle effect for brainstorm mid combo when you typically don't have fetches unless the game really has gone on that long but at that point you should be winning anyways since inevitability is on our side and the number one reason to play this deck still even though some have cut remand from the deck in the context of counterwars remand is the best card in a counterwar by far as well as the brain freeze interaction. I know I cut it personally since the card has been less than impressive as of late especially in comparison to flusterstorm, which can actually counter discard whereas remanding hymn to tourach, thoughtseize, duress, etc. etc. is miserable. Flusterstorm in the combo mirror is vastly superior as well. Had a game against ANT with this where I had flusterstorm + FoW and my ANT opponent couldn't do anything especially when snapcaster flusterstorm came online due to 4 islands. Ended up combo'ing out on turn 12 or something very late like that after he infernaled for duress and put a duress on the stack. Remand in that spot? Not nearly as good due to the 2 cmc and can be played around with boatloads of mana whereas flusterstorm is almost always nigh impossible to play around for a storm deck.
On split decision: It is just a twincast really. You can't counter anything valuable with it so it's identical to twincast. The only playable will of the council card in legacy is council's judgment because you automatically get to vindicate a nonland permanent of theirs no matter what. With this it's just twincast every time and there isn't much difference between countering force of will or copying force of will it turns out.
Either way, excited to brew with DTT in here and hope to revitalize the deck somewhat. Finally get more copies of meditate in the deck as that's really what I miss the most when combo'ing is more meditates. Card is also insane in a grindy game. One thing to note with DTT is that upping the fetch count higher could be correct as each fetch shaves a mana off DTT.
DTT comboes nicely with Brain Freeze.
- Chain a few spells
- BF yourself
- Resolve BF copies when needed to mill useless lands put back with Brainstorm, or when you need to fill the GY for Delve
- Continue combo chain
- Remand your BF, recast it targeting your opponent for lethal
Kind of like how MD Brain Freeze comboed with Snapcaster Mage, Visions of Beyond, and Remand in benthetenor's version.
MD Brain Freeze also helps against Counterbalance, and lets you win easily with Remand (no big combo chain needed).
It wouldn't be better use the old Flash of Insight at this poit?Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTylerGalt
FoI might let you see more cards overall, but the one-shot double-Impulse is definitely relevant from DTT.Quote:
Originally Posted by fuga
I totally agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Ritual
I cutted Cunning Wish way before Dig Through Time was printed. A real sideboard is absolutely a benefit in my opinion.
Serapphus, who should be known here, easily convinced me of that. The combo of wishing for an answer usually is too clunky and doesn't automatically win a game.
The protection from Extractions is negligable, because we usually can still act in response and the High Tide resolved if not countered.
And only for this one case, I prefer running more options in sideboard, which are ordinarily found in time in our deck.
I believe Snapcaster Mage can still be run simultaneously with DTT, but I'll try it without for now.
Split Decision or Twincast on DTT is a real big move and doesn't work with SCM.
It costs UUUU and shows you 14 cards and gives you 4 cards. INSANE!
SCM gave us consistency, we were lacking, but made us resilient to removal in response to SCM-bounce, which can be played around, and to graveyard hate like deathrite shaman.
An early DRS still can hurt DTT, but I think, not as hard as removing the target of SCM.
In my opinion DTT provides us consistency too and improves the win-rate without tides beside the obvious cardadvantage.
I'm getting a real fan of the card and will for sure run 2 of them in my list with or without SCM. But leaving the opponent with a lot of dead cards first game, makes cutting the wishes even easier!
And the synergy with twincast is one of the best arguments for DTT over Flash of Insight! ;)
I can't wait to go off in response to a Treasure Cruise, using multiple Twincasts to copy it during the combo chain, then Brain Freezing my opponent, before letting his Cruise resolve.
Remand is also great against opposing delve spells :p
Omg. Thanks. Now i really want to do this too. Gotta reassemble Solodarity.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTylerGalt
Copying Treasure Cruise with Twincast makes him draw 3 more cards, doesn't it? Remanding Delve-Spells seems really nice.
If you cut Cunning Wish and Snapcaster Mage from Main, I recommend running 1x Noxious Revival instead.
It's not very likely that they cut you off your win-conditions with discard, but if they do, it's no auto-lose with 1x Preboard. Can also be used in other situations.