[Deck] Dredge

I am a recent dredge convert, and have built the manaless dredge deck. I am reading every article and watching every video I can find on manaless dredge. I read your article in "Cutting Room Floor" as well. Thank you for this primer as well as the former article.

What I would like is a sideboarding guide that tells me what cards to remove when I bring in the sideboard cards. I don't want to ruin the main deck by replacing the wrong cards after game one.

The build I am starting with:

Creature [44]
4 Ichorid
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Shambling Shell
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Nether Shadow
4 Street Wraith
2 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Dryad Arbor
3 Griselbrand

Instant [4]
3 Contagion
1 Sickening Shoal

Sorcery [8]
4 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy

Enchantment [4]
4 Bridge from Below

Sideboard [15]
1 Forest
3 Nature's Claim
3 Noxious Revival
2 Sickening Shoal
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Reverent Silence

I look forward to your reply.

Thank you,

Bookwizard

Folks,

There is actually a forum designated specifically for Manaless Dredge in the Established Forum. Any questions, feel free to post them there and I can answer them for you.

Thanks!

Nice work on the top 8 Parcher.

is there any interest in treasure cruise or fatesticher in the main?
i look at fatestitcher and think of synergy with cabal therapy, untapping our lands or tap a hatebear or any pertmanent that threatens our combo,, or when we crack led to activate coliseum with 2 more blue floating. etc...
treasure cruise just seems like a big commitment. anyone playtest it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Timber

Nice work on the top 8 Parcher.

---

Thanks!

Not a bad weekend. Beat Infect, Lands, Miracles, 2X Deathblade, Elves, U/R Delver. Lost to Sneak and Manaless, and drew with BUG.

MD Darkblast worked perfectly. Won both Game 2's against U/R and Elves, and Game 1 against Infect because of it. Also beat a Deathblade deck that for some reason ran Cage over Surgical, due to hardcasting Thugs and Narcos, and DBlasting them to trigger Bridges. Against the other Blade deck, it protected my single Ichorid from a game-winning Plow.

Uncertain about the Seizes. If more Delve cards become commonplace, might have to run anti-hate there. Depends on the saturation of Combo in the upcoming metagame.

Not much else in the way of highlights. Lost Game three to Sneak due to a first turn Seize allowing a second turn Breakthrough. He Brainstorms in response, but I then empty his hand, and force hime to shuffle due to discarding Emrakul. He blind rips Cage, and the Therapies had eaten up all my threats. Whatever. Same deal with the Game 2 against Manaless. I saw one total dredger in 27 cards. So I lose to varience. Part of the deck.

Only other interesting thing was my Round Nine match. I'll paraphrase the dialogue.

GFab: Hi, I'm Gerrard.
Me: Hi, I'm Damon. So, draw?
GFab: No.
Me: No? Uhh...we're first and second seed?
GFab: I know.
Me: So.......
GFab: So let's play.
Me(I know he's on BUG, with like two hate pieces): You got it buddy.(proceed to shuffle up)
Judge(grabs slip): I'll take this. Oh. What's going on?
GFab: We're playing it out.
Judge: Really? Well OK then.(sits down to watch)
Friend of Gerrard: Hey. We're going to get food. You coming?
GFab: We're playing it out.
Friend of Gerrard: Uh....you are playing for seeding? You'll still be in second or third with a draw.
GFab: And what if I want to play through the final?
Friend of Gerrard: Uhh......OK.(sits down to watch)
GFab: High Roll?(rolls a 2)(I roll a 16)
GFab: Oh. Never mind then. Want to draw?
Me(fuming, but exhausted): Sure. Fine.
Judge: What a dick move. Sign the slip.(we do) Let me get your decks so we can check before Top8.
GFab: No. I'm going to eat.
Judge: Uhhh, well we can't wait for you to eat. We want them done as soon as possible.
GFab: You gonna be responsible for it when I leave? No? Then too bad.
Judge: Ok. Wait here. I'll get the Head Judge to discuss this with you.
GFab: Get fucked, nerd. (walks out)[I might have editorialized that last line. But that was the intent of his statement.]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parcher

TOnly other interesting thing was my Round Nine match. I'll paraphrase the dialogue.

GFab: Hi, I'm Gerrard.
Me: Hi, I'm Damon. So, draw?
GFab: No.
Me: No? Uhh...we're first and second seed?
GFab: I know.
Me: So.......
GFab: So let's play.
Me(I know he's on BUG, with like two hate pieces): You got it buddy.(proceed to shuffle up)
Judge(grabs slip): I'll take this. Oh. What's going on?
GFab: We're playing it out.
Judge: Really? Well OK then.(sits down to watch)
Friend of Gerrard: Hey. We're going to get food. You coming?
GFab: We're playing it out.
Friend of Gerrard: Uh....you are playing for seeding? You'll still be in second or third with a draw.
GFab: And what if I want to play through the final?
Friend of Gerrard: Uhh......OK.(sits down to watch)
GFab: High Roll?(rolls a 2)(I roll a 16)
GFab: Oh. Never mind then. Want to draw?
Me(fuming, but exhausted): Sure. Fine.
Judge: What a dick move. Sign the slip.(we do) Let me get your decks so we can check before Top8.
GFab: No. I'm going to eat.
Judge: Uhhh, well we can't wait for you to eat. We want them done as soon as possible.
GFab: You gonna be responsible for it when I leave? No? Then too bad.
Judge: Ok. Wait here. I'll get the Head Judge to discuss this with you.
GFab: Get fucked, nerd. (walks out)[I might have editorialized that last line. But that was the intent of his statement.]

---

What a tool.

I wouldn't have accepted his offer after the roll and would have stared him stone-cold in the face after drilling him with a horde of zombies.

Grats on the top 8 dude.

I'm going to try the Dark Blast MD. I'm always a fan of having different angles. I still like having a DR main for that reason, but I'm going to try the extra land in its stead.

I noticed you only have a singleton Ashen Rider as a DR target. Do you worry that because you only have 1 DR in the whole 75 that it wont be recurred a good number of times? Also do you not like Iona? I find it a house against a span of common decks like Burn, Elves, storm variants, etc..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Que

Grats on the top 8 dude.

I'm going to try the Dark Blast MD. I'm always a fan of having different angles. I still like having a DR main for that reason, but I'm going to try the extra land in its stead.

I noticed you only have a singleton Ashen Rider as a DR target. Do you worry that because you only have 1 DR in the whole 75 that it wont be recurred a good number of times? Also do you not like Iona? I find it a house against a span of common decks like Burn, Elves, storm variants, etc..

---

The only reason I run a Rider as a target is for Lands/Post. Since lands are the only thing I have no other way to interact with. Maze+Tabernacle is a big problem, and Chasm is unbeatable if they have anything to back it up. Even the FStorm hail mary doesn't work since Stage was printed. Having only one of each is rarely a problem, since you have to pick your spot and go all-in against these decks anyway. If one of the two ends up in the last few cards, and they have an unbeatable board state without me hitting Rider, it's a trade-off I'm fine with. Not worth losing more slots for such fringe decks anyway.

I bring Rider in against Show for obvious reasons, and against Miracles when I'm not running additional discard in the SB. That's it. Though there are a few more attrition-focused matchups where I will bring in the DR solo.

Against an unknown opponent on the play what's the correct line with an opening seven of coliseum, gemstone, led, imp, 2xlooting and stink imp? All in with led looting shenanigans or wait a turn for a coliseum activation? I'm thinking about bringing either led dredge or goblins to gp jersey, is it a mistake bringing led dredge to a seemingly blue infested meta?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jimmythegreek

Against an unknown opponent on the play what's the correct line with an opening seven of coliseum, gemstone, led, imp, 2xlooting and stink imp? All in with led looting shenanigans or wait a turn for a coliseum activation? I'm thinking about bringing either led dredge or goblins to gp jersey, is it a mistake bringing led dredge to a seemingly blue infested meta?

---

Part of the problem here is that no two players are identical. For some reason, and I have been wrong a few times. Most control players give off a certain, vibe, much like mono-red players. A very integral part of this deck is being able to pick up tells and develop a sixth sense towards your opponents and trying to put them on a deck while they are shuffling/setting up to play.

Against a totally unknown player that I have absolutely no read on. I slow roll it. Mine into Loot, see what my draw is and continue. Part of the 'x-factor' to your question is we do not know what the two cards off the draw are. They could either vastly change how the hand is played, or be total bricks in which case you only dump one dredger. Going this Route, you also get to dredge/dig one deeper. Assuming you hit nothing of the Faithless for a Second Dredge, you can natural dredge, and see if you hit anything. If you hit something good(more dredgers), I would tap the Gemstone into the second faithless. If for some reason he is a counter player, he may wait to here to counter your spell(I have seen it happen), if that is the case run out the LED and try to go off with the coliseum. If you resolve the faithless, you should be able to just go nuts, and assuming you are running a combo finish, you can end the game on the spot on turn 2 hopefully as long as dredges go your way, and if you cannot factually win the game, typically you can get into such a position were you lock out your opponent or strip anything relevant from their hand.

Other players may greatly differ from my playstyle, but that is one of the things I love about this deck, outside of a few select instances, playstyle can be taken into account and you can play how it feels right to you and not just 'cause reasons'.

~Nox

Hi guys, just got top 8 at Ovino 9 (476 players) with this list:
4 Mana Confluence
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Cephalid Coliseum
1 City of Brass
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Loothing
3 Breakthrought
3 Street Wraith
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
2 Dread Return
1 Griselbrand
4 Bridge From Below
4 Cabal Therapy

2 City of Brass
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ingot Chewer
2 Wispmare
2 Nature's Claim
3 Firestorm
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Ashen Rider

I wrote a detailed report on Tipo1.it (in italian), if you have any question im here :)

PS: a big thanks for all of you, this thread helped me so much building my 75 ^^

How did the street wraiths work out for you? Since you only run 1 Grisel & 2 DR, I guess you go for the grindy way instead of the combo-route, I presume? And haven't you missed the Probes? I'm asking this because I usually play the quadlaser list.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darklingske

How did the street wraiths work out for you? Since you only run 1 Grisel & 2 DR, I guess you go for the grindy way instead of the combo-route, I presume? And haven't you missed the Probes? I'm asking this because I usually play the quadlaser list.

---

I never had a chance to fizzle a DRS using SW, but many times felt needed for get ichorid online.

Imho you have to play at least 3 imp/SW in order to play ichorid consistently, and i feel like imp is really not worth at all in LEDWith, is too slow compared to the other 57.

And for the DR, well, imho you dont have to play a second target, if you get a grisel online you can just drop 4 therapy and let them have a single topdeck, most likely you will win anyway.

Probe would have been great, but is just a card you cant play over a card you have in the 75 imho, let's say you have to make good reads on opponent hand by yourself, because SW give you a solution to a problem, GP give you information you can still be able to get.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noctalor

Imho you have to play at least 3 imp/SW in order to play ichorid consistently, and i feel like imp is really not worth at all in LEDWith, is too slow compared to the other 57.

---

So, if it was up to you, what would you replace Imp with? You can't let the black creature count to low because of Ichorid, so I guess PImp is the least of all evil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darklingske

So, if it was up to you, what would you replace Imp with? You can't let the black creature count to low because of Ichorid, so I guess PImp is the least of all evil.

---

You have 3 slot, you can chose between:
- Street Wraith
- Second Griselbrand
- Mono Phantasmagorian
- Four Ichorid
- Maindeck Ashen Rider

And imho 3 SW is the best choice, maybe 2 SW and 2nd Grisel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parcher

The only reason I run a Rider as a target is for Lands/Post. Since lands are the only thing I have no other way to interact with. Maze+Tabernacle is a big problem, and Chasm is unbeatable if they have anything to back it up. Even the FStorm hail mary doesn't work since Stage was printed. Having only one of each is rarely a problem, since you have to pick your spot and go all-in against these decks anyway. If one of the two ends up in the last few cards, and they have an unbeatable board state without me hitting Rider, it's a trade-off I'm fine with. Not worth losing more slots for such fringe decks anyway.

I bring Rider in against Show for obvious reasons, and against Miracles when I'm not running additional discard in the SB. That's it. Though there are a few more attrition-focused matchups where I will bring in the DR solo.

---

Any chance of a sideboarding bit on all these Petals and Decays?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cipher

Any chance of a sideboarding bit on all these Petals and Decays?

---

Scroll back a few pages:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Dredge/page161

That gerrard comment was hysterical. I would've bashed his face in after that bullshit. Clearly he has never seen pulp fiction.

After trying Parcher's SB I can now say that Lotus Petal is pretty damn sweet. idk about the 2 Thougseizes as I think i would rather them be another DR and an Iona only because my meta has burn and elves in it (although I guess thats what the 3 firestorms are about lol).

Lotus Petal keeps you on parity game 2 and helps you play around Daze. Under better circumstances they can tap out on their turn 1 casting anything and on your turn barring a FOW can drop a land and a petal --> Careful Study/faithless into Breakthrough and close the game out right then before they can really interact. They also speed you up against faster combo decks where Putrid Imp is too slow.

I'm liking the Abrupts as well except for weird spots when Thalia hits play. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Que

After trying Parcher's SB I can now say that Lotus Petal is pretty damn sweet. idk about the 2 Thougseizes as I think i would rather them be another DR and an Iona only because my meta has burn and elves in it (although I guess thats what the 3 firestorms are about lol).

Lotus Petal keeps you on parity game 2 and helps you play around Daze. Under better circumstances they can tap out on their turn 1 casting anything and on your turn barring a FOW can drop a land and a petal --> Careful Study/faithless into Breakthrough and close the game out right then before they can really interact. They also speed you up against faster combo decks where Putrid Imp is too slow.

I'm liking the Abrupts as well except for weird spots when Thalia hits play. :/

---

This was the first time I tried the Seizes, and they were just OK. My thinking was, I needed something additional against Storm and Reanimator, since DR/Rider does very little. They also should be excellent against Miracles, and they fit the slot for anti-Extraction cards, being another way to pre-emptively deal with it.

Replacing them with another DR package is great against Combo, but almost worthless against Reanimator, since not only does Norn shut all DRs off, they can reanimate your Iona if you can't. Probably a wash against Miracles, since Iona shuts them down, and Rider gives you the turn or two you need to race. Probably a little worse against Extraction. Obviously doesn't stop it, but does force them to reevaluate their targets. A field with a significant Deathblade and Reanimator presence would be bad, but otherwise it seems fine.