[Deck] Merfolk

Ok to veer away from the reanimator discussion for the moment, is Lord of Atlantis in the mirror the closest thing Legacy has to a Prisoner's Dilemma?
I mean, if you play Lord of Atlantis, and your opponent plays something that can benefit from it like another creature, your opponent will reap the rewards of your cards efficantly, and visa versa. Is there an incentive to play LoA in the miror?
I might even go as far to say that, if both people play LoA, the game ends much faster and there's less of an opportunity to skillfully win.

Can you guys think of any other magic situation where this theory may be applicable?

Agree to veering off Reanimator - can anyone see anything drastically wrong with my SB'ing plan on page 165?

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Originally Posted by AcidFiend

Agree to veering off Reanimator - can anyone see anything drastically wrong with my SB'ing plan on page 165?

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Only commenting on the MUs I've had experience with, also without any knowledge of your MD:

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Originally Posted by AcidFiend

NO Bant: +3 Submerge, +2 Llawan, +1 Spell Pierce, -3 Standstill, -2 Echoing Truth, -1 Daze

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What does Llawan even do against NO Bant?

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Zoo: +3 Relic, +3 Submerge, +2 Needle, -3 Standstill, -3 Daze, -2 ET

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Honestly I would not board out ET. My preference is taking out 3-cost Merfolk (Thrashers or Soverigns, I think they're too slow)

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Ichorid: +3 Relic, +1 Crypt, +2 Propaganda, -3 Standstill, -3 Daze

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Looks good.

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Merfolk: +2 Llawan, +2 Propaganda, -3 Standstill, -1 Lord

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Maybe side out another Lord for a Spell Pierce. Something you could also try is siding out Vials for Needles. You're siding out Standstills so Vial is slightly less important, and if they're relying on Vial and Standstill you just kinda fucked them over.

On a general note, I personally hate Pithing Needle and would replace it with some more Spell Pierces or some Blue Blasts, but you don't have to do that if you don't want to.

(Don't listen to me, I'm bad at this game.)

I wouldn't take out daze vs ichorid, especially on the play. You really need your counter spells to counter there discard outlet along with breakthrough etc. Even on the draw they are still good to stop their spells, if breakthrough resolves with no hate on board its pretty much gg. (imo)

I agree about the needle, I love needle but not in Merfolk. Why would you bring it in vs Zoo? I don't even think relic is all that good vs zoo, but if that is all you have. I think your sb should include some threads or mind harness. If you have thrasher I would take them out vs zoo but not lords, all 4 standstills and maybe even cursecatcher. Is he really even all that good vs zoo? I wouldn't side out echoing truths either. I would bring in propaganda before relics.

For pox what do they use from the graveyard? Seems like you would need your counters to fight off all their disruption.

Stax why would you bring in relic and drop standstill, stand still vial is how you beat stax

I would drop the needles for more cards vs zoo such as threads or mind harness, and maybe a 3rd propaganda? I would think that with 3 propaganda you can drop the empress also.

I would also cut spell pierce before I sided out daze, I have tested spell pierce and the first 4 turns I am always tapping out to play something such as vial, lord, lord and keeping a mana open doesn't seem to be what merfolk wants to do

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Originally Posted by dyzzy

What does Llawan even do against NO Bant?

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Bounces Prog.

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Originally Posted by Forbiddian

Bounces Prog.

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Touche. Dunno why, but was thinking of Survival Bant.

I'd rather side in more Spell Pierces either way.

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Originally Posted by SlopeeJ

I wouldn't take out daze vs ichorid, especially on the play.

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I don't think I'd ever board out Daze on the play against anything. Maybe Lands, but beyond that?

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Originally Posted by luckme10

Can you guys think of any other magic situation where this theory may be applicable?

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The classic example of this is Standstill, though there are plenty of examples that have been around forever such as Winter Orb and Ghazban Ogre.

Also, regarding Lord of Atlantis in the mirror matchup, there are worse things that you could board out, but I've found that Vial-ing them in after blockers are declared can win games often enough that they're worth keeping in. Basically, you just never drop them until you have more creatures on the board than your opponent, it's pretty simple to figure out when it would be a bad idea to cast it in any given mirror matchup.

Personally though, Standstill is the number one card that I board out in the mirror, because it's just too hard to make sure it works out in your favor, since they have equal assets to try to exploit it.

Thanks for the replies guys :)

I didn't do a SB list for 'on the draw/on the play', but the times I'm boarding out Daze was assuming I'm on the draw.

I've used Relic a number of times against Zoo and found it to be decent. Shrinks their Goyfs and prevents Lavamancer from shooting all your dudes.

Anyways I'll keep working on it!

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Originally Posted by AcidFiend

Thanks for the replies guys :)

I didn't do a SB list for 'on the draw/on the play', but the times I'm boarding out Daze was assuming I'm on the draw.

I've used Relic a number of times against Zoo and found it to be decent. Shrinks their Goyfs and prevents Lavamancer from shooting all your dudes.

Anyways I'll keep working on it!

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Isn't the plan for being on the play more important?

Is this still worth playing, with all the Zoo and Goblin decks putting up big numbers? I've got a big tournament tomorrow and don't know what to play.

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Originally Posted by Mayk0l

Is this still worth playing, with all the ANT and REANIMATOR decks putting up big numbers? I've got a big tournament tomorrow and don't know what to play.

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Yes it is. But yeah, Zoo and Goblins are tough. And what Goblin decks are those?

Six in the top sixteen of Indianapolis? I'd say it's still worth playing.

Goblins is kind of stuck right now. Goblins is having trouble thriving because while it beats Merfolk, it's slightly unfavored against the deck that beats Merfolk even more often, Zoo.

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I don't think I'd ever board out Daze on the play against anything. Maybe Lands, but beyond that?

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I would probably take out daze or atleast 2 vs zoo because losing a land vs zoo is hard to recover from. I also bring in 9 cards vs zoo so lots of stuff has to come out.

I still wouldn't board out daze vs Ichorid even on the play, they only get a couple of lands. They only have so many ways to get rid of cards in your hand (cabal therapy) and only so many ways to get rid of your graveyard hate.

There is a series of Legacy Tournament happening around my area for the next 4 weeks (which is making me happy)

I have a lot of options and Merfolk is one of them. I am trying to make this deck as optimal as possible.

Here is my currently list:

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12 Island
4 Wasteland
3 Mutavault

4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Merfolk Sovereign

4 AEther Vial
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
3 Stifle

Sideboard:
3 Echoing Truth
3 Hydroblast
3 Propaganda
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Kira, Great-Glass Spinner
1 Pithing Needle

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I have heard different stories of how good Umezawa's Jitte is. I currently only own one (but I also own a single Swords of Fire and Ice). Would one be enough? (replacing one Merfolk Sovereign on the main)

So far, on my playtesting, I havent had any problem with no Etruths on the main. Although I havent really extensively testing against aggro.

Speaking of aggro, Tormod's Crypt used to be Relic of Progenitus. Relics have been good slowly neutering graveyard dependent cards such as Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Grim Lavamancer, etc. But with the recent rise of Reanimator, I feel that I need to deal with the graveyard right away. Is this a wise switch? And how would Relic do anyways against Reanimator? Is our matchup against them really that good?

Should I abandon Stifle, put E-truths on main and replace that last 3 spots with something else?


Any more you guys would like to add? Thanks!

I just bought UW Merfolk to a local tournament and I posted my report on the report section.

Just wrote this in case anyone is interested in reading it ;)

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Originally Posted by Raptor

I just bought UW Merfolk to a local tournament and I posted my report on the report section.

Just wrote this in case anyone is interested in reading it ;)

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Hello,
I've read your report. The list you ran had 3 Sejiri Merfolk, how was it ? Was the 1st strike and lifelink worth it ?

As for your sideboard, just wondering why not run oblivion ring over disenchants so it could also double up as a removal aswell and save space from 3 pte and 3 disenchants.

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Originally Posted by _erbs_

Hello,
I've read your report. The list you ran had 3 Sejiri Merfolk, how was it ? Was the 1st strike and lifelink worth it ?

As for your sideboard, just wondering why not run oblivion ring over disenchants so it could also double up as a removal aswell and save space from 3 pte and 3 disenchants.

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Honestly, in this tournament for my team mate and I, it was not that impressive.
He always got burned when he relevant or it was overkill today.

Although, in intensive playtest, it was REALLY good versus Kitchenfinks, goblins, merfolks, elves. (which we thought that would be really present)
Since I don't run jitte, the lifelink can be really relevant and the first strike is always nice when you vial it in for a little surprise. Having a lord instead of it probally wouldn't have change anything.

For disenchants, it provides a definitive answer for an artifact or enchantment. It can't be gripped, Oblivion ring'ed, destroyed by Qasali Pridemage or by trigon predator.

Also, comparing it with path, it comes out 2 turns later which is REALLY relevant and considering I run 4 mutavault 4 wasteland, I don't always have the 3 lands when I play agaisnt a deck that has removal(zoo). Plus, path is an instant so you can Path a lord or something in order to kill a tribal or such things. Not to mention you don't waste a whole turn just doing O ring.

@Raptor
I've noticed that you only ran 4 plains aswell im guessing Sejiri Merfolk doesn't go online often. You said in your testing he was really good, what was his role a life gainer ? a muscle creature ? etc.

I know his a 2cc beater i've tried to bump the 2 curve of merfs before and tested grimoire thief and it was so so thus dropped it and went to 12 lord setup.