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I did read the article. He said that this list wasn't worth playing because of all the Pyroblasts/Red Elemental Blasts running around. I agree with that and wouldn't touch a Thopter Foundry list unless the meta shifts a lot due to whatever happens (or doesn't happen) with the banned list on Monday. So I was curious as to why he was bothering to even post the decklist. Must be just for reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
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Originally Posted by drocker23
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Originally Posted by dionykos
Thanks Philipp! I was just about to message you to ask about this, I've been tinkering with something similar myself. Time to test!Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer
Regarding the above list, unless you're extremely afraid of Null Rod/Gaddock Teeg, I think EE > CJ in the SB.
I know this may sound dumb, but I've liked cj against the omnitell and Sneak and show decks. If they don't flip against show and tell off counterbalance, they'll at least handle sneak attack or omniscience. I do like ee however againt other things and think both ee and cj would be necessary in a miracles listQuote:
Originally Posted by Philipp2293
No, it does not. You normally die the turn your opponent resoves SneakAttack or Omniscience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombo175
I disagree. I've been in situations where I was able to untap after those were cast and remember that's even if your cj didn't flip off snt on counterbalance. Your death is not guaranteed aftet either sa or omni resolving. Maybe I play against scrubs or just have amazing luck. Cj also stops cunning wish, but I guess clique does too so I lost my pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
In the 90% of the matches against Omnitell you die in the same turn you opponent resolve the enchantment.
Vs Sneak and Show instead the dead are not sure because he required mana for play cantrip or activated the Sneak.
In each situation, if you have side in all the helping cards for this matchup, Council's Judgment can help you for increase the number of cards with converted casting cost 3 for Counterbalance.
Certainly in G2 i fill my deck with all the counter (Reb and Flusterstorm) and Vendilion Clique.
I have some doubt about card like: Pithing Needle, Containment Priest, Wear/Tear, Council's Judgment.
Omnitell is not even a deck.
Chalice of the Void
Canonist
Priest
Reb
SnapMagCounterbalance
Trinisphere
they are all very effective against it and every 75 cards in the format play some of these.
SneakShow can rely on Through the Breach and Sneak Attack, but only that. and they are resolved anyway by Containment Priest.
We're worrying of nothing.
I'd rather be afraid of DnT and UWR rampage
Sorry, but Omnitell is pretty well-played in this current meta. Alot lists are being played online.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
From the perspective of Omnishow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Chalice of the void is sometimes a problem. The rest of the deck in which Chalice sees play is not (including trinisphere).
Canonist is annoying but not great. Unless you present lethal or have an answer to omniscience you are dead a turn or 2 later anyway.
Priest is terrible
Reb is very nice, but can be played around with Boseiju, Defense Grid or counterspells.
Counterbalance is great if you float a 3, otherwise it's just fine.
Snapcaster is also very nice.
Without hatebears in the sideboard (mostly meddling mage) I think the miracles matchup is about even or slightly unfavored. Omnishow is a very real deck.
UWR can be problematic because of all the different decklists there is, sure. Philipp talked about this earlier... it's impossible to sideboard correctly for example.
DnT is easy if you know how to play the matchup (especially if you have sfm+batterskull).
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Originally Posted by Poron
I hate being afraid of Death and Taxes. Even though they aren't your typical creature deck, they're still a creature deck. And you would think a well timed Terminus or two would be enough to put the game away (like how it is against elves). But NOOOOOOO =/
BTW, what is UWR rampage?
I am playing both Miracle and Omnishow and your statement is just plain wrong. Nowadays wasteland is at an alltime-low, so you should be playing Boseiju somewhere in the 75. Miracle just loses to this card, as well as all the Jeskai decks out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
I am playing a Ub version myself, with 2 Boseijus main, 1 in the Sb, with 3 Massacre coming in for potential hatebears like Meddling Mage and I can assure you it is very very strong in this metagame. Especially with Dig through Time, which is insane in this deck.
Even with Ominiscience they still have to resolve cantrips to win.
If you have a Canonist they can't
if you have a Counterbalance they don't cantrip
if you have a reb you counter their Cunning Wish or worse.
Boseiju + Show and Tell are all but an Instant win against Miracle. I have been testing Omnitell and, imho, its fragility is embarassing.
It can lead to turn 1 Emrakul, yes, but we play Reb, Flusterstorm and FoW for that..
Miracles certainly does not just lose to Boseiju. Sure, you get to resolve an uncounterable Show and Tell. Unless the card you put into play is Greslebrand, in which case OmniTell does not run, Miracles is well equipped to fight whatever permanent or spell you try to play next. Not everyone has ditched Karakas on the Miracles side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Achamian
The problem is Miracles' threat density. If Miracles allows OmniTell to sculpt a perfect hand, not putting threats onto the board, even CB is not enough sometimes.
That's not how OmniTell works. To fight Miracles, it all starts with uncounterable cunning wish, then uncounterable or split second bounce CB at Miracles player's turn. In SB games, Omnitell can get an explosive starts by doing turn 1 defense grid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
In today's meta, Canonist is a bit narrow.
OmniTell can defeat a resolved CB, as long as you don't present a threat.
Yes, Wish is a magnet to counter, but that's not the point.
The important cards in this MU are Clique and Karakas, in my opinion. You certainly want to be able to set CB and float 3 and 5 as a goal, but you cannot rush to get to that state.
A player who knows how to play use Bosejiu on Cunning Wish, take Wipe Away and play it on our Counterbalance in our EOT.
In his turn i re-use Bosejiu on Show and Tell and go to the victory research.
in the meantime you die to snapcaster and clique beatdown. seriously Omnitell is not and shouldnt be a point of concern. redblasts are just too good. and one has virtual 7+ copies of it.
Council's Judgment on its own is a decent card. And its good in the maindeck because its so versatile. However not worth playing in the sideboard because its with 3 mana pretty expensive and a sorcery.
ok that's just 2 turns and 4 life (CWish + Rushing River/Wype Out).
You play 4 CB, I am quite sure you can see it, also, double.
actually thats 2.5 turns since a good miracles player could simply stack two 3 CMC on top so you would not only need boseiju for wish and show tell but also to resolve wipe away...
overall so many plans on Boseiju which is a 2x at most..
People run Boseju in Omnitell?
:eek:
With all those UR(W)(B) not running Wasteland including Miracles makes Boseiju more reliable then Defense Grid. Also i would like to be paired against Miracles anyday. Not completely a buy, but its not hard to beat either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher
I'm not sure Miracles is well equipped to fight Emrakul off of Omniscience. Karakas (most players do not play this anymore, especially in my austrian legacy scene, where pretty much everyone is running Phillips lists more or less, and even if they do it's only a 1-off) does nothing unless you also have a REB in response to casting Emrakul _and_ some additional number of protection against Wishes, Digs or my own counterspells at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
Mono blue and UB Omnitel have more tools to deal with Counterbalance. For the URb Omntitell deck, with an incredible amount of top performances at the last SCG btw (almost identical lists), Miracles is a lot harder to beat. No room voor Boseiju (and often no room for a copy of Dream Halls), no instant speed answers and no Wipe Away (or Trickbind).
Besides that, the meta currently looks very hostile against Omnitel, on paper.. But I can tell you by experience that it's actually very good right now! Dig Through Time is an inredible boost, and very easy to cast! In the past, discard and Liliana were a nightmare for Omnitell (which even had to pack white Leylines to fight it), but now discard is almost completely gone. The popular UR lists are easy to beat. However, once they pack Therapy's in the board it al becomes pretty rough ^^!
But now back to Miracles!
I join the -3th Jace +1 DTT for now :laugh:. But honestly, I didn't like it as much during testing as I thought I would...
Phillip, thanks for the article! I will like it in a min, to get more content like that! And I hope we'll see it sooner next time!
PS: It's very sad that there won't be a BoM in Annecy this may =(! It is always an awesome tournament.. Last time I top 8'd Vintage and finished 27th in Legacy. I played 7-1-2 with Miracles, and would love to play it again by your side ^_^! But maybe in the second half of 2015! And I'll do my best to go to either Prague or Milan. Lille is a certainty ofc ;)! Miracles ftw!
Meta-ing against one deck isn't always the best idea, but there's probably no(t much) harm in running one or two Wastelands for problem lands like Boseiju, or maybe it's time for Blood Moon to join the fun again.
But today, it's a Deck-to-Beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Omnitell is a good match up. Worst case scenario they go Boseju into SxT omniscience but even then U can respond with REB/Pyro on omniscience when they play a spell.
Then they in response you with a free brainstorm into a free hardcast force and suddenly you are out of ideas, and also probably dead.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Nah.. no way they can do that
Way.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Some Omnitell player tries to "ambush" you with turn 2 Show and Tell into Emrakul. The logic is that it's low-risk-high-reward when you don't have all the combo pieces. Karakas discourages that path. If Omniscience's involved, it's a totally different animal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Achamian
Omnitell turn 2 Show and Tell:
you put down Karakas
Omnitell puts down Emarakul
That's huge for Miracle.
Omnitell turn 3 Show and Tell:
you put down Karakas
Omnitell puts down Omniscience.
Now, this is where it gets tricky. If Omnitell puts down Emrakul as the 1st spell after an Omni's on the board, it's pretty much over. However, sometimes Omnitell player likes to just rush to get Omni onto the board. Say Omnitell player doesn't have any more Ponder/Brainstorm after and Miracles player gets to live another turn. Miracles then can cast Clique on Omnitell player's draw step when it's Omni's turn again. Miracles player then can attack for 3 and then bounce-recast Clique on Omnitell player's every draw step after that, which is why I made the comment that Karakas and Clique are very important.
Clique is great vs all the combo...but the real problem is the speed of the Omnitell.
Bosejiu come into play tapped, and this is great for us...
On the play we have 4 turns for search Clique and 3 lands...in this way we can cast Clique in resp of Show and Tell.
On the draw it's different because we have 1 turn minus.
Surely the correct line is to just Red Blast their Shows and Halls? Then they just can't play Magic. No-one is winning a counterwar against us when they are two mana down on the first Spell.
With the soon to be inclusion or the new monastery mentor perhaps it may be time for the resurgence of moat? Here's the list i'm thinking of running.
http://deckbox.org/sets/860509
Regards!
If there is one deck that doesnt care alot about Mentor its Miracles , the match up will play the same like UR Delver.
What about it's inclusion in more midrange decks like stoneblade? Do you think that will increase their popularity? And if so, isn't moat a good card against those strategies?
I think as long as Delver is a popular choice, Engineered Explosives will continue to be better in a token - infested meta.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
oh that's sure. EE is such the next meta sweeper that I'm thinking about 1 Academy Ruins MD or SB
I have sell 2 Moat last week because after 6 months of test i don't have a good response from this sideboard cards in this meta.
Moat is a good card vs tribal (merfolks, goblin, elves) and mid range like deathblade and jund but and I have good results vs this deck..but...at the end...I always preferred other cards for my 15...
In the specific, imho, Humility work better than Moat because, for the same casting cost, resolve more problems (activated and trigger ability)
Moat is not even good against tribal. Merfolk can bounce it. Goblin can seige-gang; if they splash White, certainly can wear//tear, elves just gsz for sage. That's not to mention DnT and Goblin run ports to tap down your White mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
aex, moat was never good and with the new set there's no resurgence of Moat. The thread is about Miracles. If you cling onto the idea of Moat, build another deck around it.