Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silverflame
To be fair, there is 1 card our ingenious friend suggested that might actually make sense. Mindless Automaton on the stax build. It can pseudo protect you from black vise and discard by adding counters to it and it's a good target to receive ravager counters. I'm not totally sold on it as it would be hangarback 5-8 and it cries for a steel overseer, but it seens fringe playable to me.
I designed the Scars Of Mirrodin fast lands :tongue: Those were good. I take credit for that.
You forgot me likely posting this, if I didn't I should have, at least I post new suggestions even if they're not an Ugin planeswalker , the rest of you talk about the same stuff that has been gone over before . Mindless Automaton could be good in a Welder build . A more interesting Welder discussion could be Welder re-animator . And get off the boo hoo please that this deck needs Metalworker/Grim Monolith, it doesn't, MUD is MUD
from Charlie-in-the-Mox on MTGO
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
4 Ratchet Bomb
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Crucible Of Worlds
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern Of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mutavault
3 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
Side,
2 Zuran Orb
2 Defense Grid
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Spellskite
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Razormane Masticore
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
That's a MUD Stax build. He doesn't need Grim Monolith, Metalworker, or Forgemaster, because his top end spells has a CMC of 4. Stax builds also needs to tempo their way through, to maintain lock. I think the (nameless one)'s Stax-less Stax build has 3 Grim Monolith and not Metalworkers. My list has no Grim Monolith, Metalworker, or Kuldotha Forgemaster either. But that's because these decks are fundamentally different at what they are trying to accomplish. Forgemaster builds are fundamentally a ramp combo deck. Stax are fundamentally a prison control deck.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
L10
That's a MUD Stax build. He doesn't need Grim Monolith, Metalworker, or Forgemaster, because his top end spells has a CMC of 4. Stax builds also needs to tempo their way through, to maintain lock. I think the (nameless one)'s Stax-less Stax build has 3 Grim Monolith and not Metalworkers. My list has no Grim Monolith, Metalworker, or Kuldotha Forgemaster either. But that's because these decks are fundamentally different at what they are trying to accomplish. Forgemaster builds are fundamentally a ramp combo deck. Stax are fundamentally a prison control deck.
my thoughts exactly, since the banning of dig, welder seens much more interesting and the stax list became more powerful. I like the idea of using ravager and would like to see more input about that list if possible.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silverflame
my thoughts exactly, since the banning of dig, welder seens much more interesting
The thing(s) that is witholding me from playing Welder is that Ugin is much less attractive to play in those lists. Is it even optional to play MUD without running Ugin? Can we justify that?
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silverflame
my thoughts exactly, since the banning of dig, welder seens much more interesting and the stax list became more powerful. I like the idea of using ravager and would like to see more input about that list if possible.
Welder has been doing great for me. I am still at the R&D stage but this is my current list:
http://i.imgur.com/amL83Lal.jpg
Stax is good. But sometimes, you get all locks, and no actual win con, and that gets frustrating. For example, if your opponent has RIP out, and you can't recur Mishra's Factory beats. Another example, you play Sphere of Resistance but not being able to cast Lodestone Golem before the opponent is able to establish their board. Delver of Secrets can sometimes just go under everything you are trying to do and you don't have a Ratchet Bomb to answer him. I am currently not working on a Stax build, but Black Vise seems interesting.
Ravager is strong in conjunction with Hangarback Walker and Trike. MGB likes it in his list. The problem with me about porting Frobots to Legacy is that Frobots are strong in Vintage are solely due to its match-ups in Vintage, which are UR Delver Decks, Dack Fayden, and Pulverize. We don't have to fear these cards in Legacy. Also, in Vintage, I can go something like:
T1: Shop, Mox, Mox, Revoker (on Mox Sapphire), Thorn, Go
T2: Ravager, Tolerian Academy, Hangarback for 4.
Clocked my opponent for 3 Turns and he was out. I had a Tangle Wire out too. Frobots in Vintage is wild explosive. I can't say the same for Legacy. It seems to be working well with MGB though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobmans
The thing(s) that is witholding me from playing Welder is that Ugin is much less attractive to play in those lists. Is it even optional to play MUD without running Ugin? Can we justify that?
Fry plays a list with Daretti and Ugin, but no Welder or Lodestone Golem (opting solely for Trinisphere).
In a Welder list, Ugin is perfectly viable in the SB where Welder isn't strong. For example, Welder is very weak against Death and Taxes because they will be expecting him (preemptive Revoker) and that both Containment Priest and Grafdigger's Cage would be a even greater blow-out, being able to deal with both Welder and Forgemaster. They also have access to RIP too. Against D&T, I usually take both Welder and Daretti out for Sharpshooter, Ugin, etc.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
can you explain your choices and reasoning for this welder build you are making
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
L10
(Awesome Mountains! Very jealous.)
How has Sharpshooter been working for you? I'm putting together something based off the Vise-Stax discussion over in Developmental Decks, so maybe Sharpshooter would have a home there, too.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
whats that set of tokens between the wurmcoil tokens and the daretti emblem? never seen it before.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
movingtonewao
whats that set of tokens between the wurmcoil tokens and the daretti emblem? never seen it before.
I think they are Myr Tokens. Which is a bit odd because I don't see Myr Battlesphere or another way to generate Myr Tokens. Maybe I missed something.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
movingtonewao
can you explain your choices and reasoning for this welder build you are making
Yeah sure. I won't give you the whole run down since this deck is still in beta, but I will give you my reasoning for some card choices.
Goblins Welder: I am only playing with three copies just in case I have a turn 1 Chalice. If that's the case, I need to wait until I get a Cavern of Souls or my opponent to blow up the Chalice. But I want to at least three so I still have a good chance of him in my opening. Also, since I am only playing 4 CoS + 6 Red Sources, I feel safer playing with three copies of Welder as a splash card.
Lightning Greaves: Three has always been the magic number for me as the number of Lightning Greaves I play in Forgemaster builds. The one turn difference to activate Metalworker, Forgemaster, Welder, Steel Hellkite, or swinging for the kill with Blightsteel, is simply not trivial. I don't mind having multiples because I can always Forge away the extras. This deck also has 24 creatures, so Lightning Greaves tends to always be equipped by something. Even a protected Revoker has a ton of value.
Phyrexian Revoker: I mainly have it in the main to clamp down cards that can ruin our strategy in the MD, like DRS and Ooze. This also frees up space in the SB. Phyrexian Revoker is also just really good at clamping down every powerful cards. Just ask any DnT player. Also, much like DnT, we can reset Revoker with Welder if a more threatening target comes up. Very happy with it so far.
Staff of Domination: This is a flex spot. It can also be Crucible of Worlds. I am liking it so far because it can win games out of nowhere, as well as buying one turn against SnT and Reanimator. When you Tinker it out to combo off with Metalworker, make sure you have three mana floating. This is because when your opponent tries to plow Metalworker, you can use the three mana to untap Metalworker and continue with the combo. By the end of the combo, Metalworker will get exiles, but the damage has already been done. Crucible is the other option to recur Wastelands and Great Furnace.
Steel Hellkite: Steel Hellkite can steal games in spots that Blightsteel can't, like when the opponent already has board presence and you can't afford to swing with Blightsteel. This is also why I love Lightning Greaves. Swinging with a hasty Steel Hellkite and EE the opponent's board the same turn is a very strong power move, and can usually win games alone.
Sundering Titan: This is also a flex spot. It can be Myr Battlephere instead. Not sure what to say, really. Sundering Titan + Welder has always been broken against any deck that plays dual lands, and usually leads to concession too. Sure, sometimes it eats my own Mountain, but that's fine. Myr Battlesphere is also good with Welder shenanigans, feeding Forgemaster, fightign against the mirror, going through Maze of Ith, and beating down planeswalkers.
Daretti: Pretty insane planeswalker. His best ability is actually his +2, because it allows us to start the Welder engine going as well as fixing our hand. I am only playing with two copies because I only have 6 red sources.
Mindslaver: This is a tech I borrowed from hartigan. Directly from the man himself, "I only board this in against slow (very very slow) controlling decks to mess them up, it has been INSANE against lands, I played lands once at the IQ and won by slaver-locking them and killing them with their own glacial chasms". So far, I am liking it. Combos with Great Furnace and Crucible of Worlds for full lock. Comes with Wurmcoil for partial lock.
Blood Moon: Kill Lands. Kills 12-Post. Kills BUG. Some decks simply can't play Magic with Blood Moon in play.
Sharpshooter: See below.
Tormod's Crypt: Pretty insane with Welder since it is a recurring Grave hate. With Crucible + Great Furnace, it is basically a one-sided RIP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stuart
(Awesome Mountains! Very jealous.)
How has Sharpshooter been working for you? I'm putting together something based off the Vise-Stax discussion over in Developmental Decks, so maybe Sharpshooter would have a home there, too.
Thanks! Those Arabian Mountains are some of my favorite cards in my collection.
Sharpshooter is great because people, literally, never expects them from a MUD deck. Against DnT, 100% of the time, they board out Mother of Runes, because she is literally just a Eager Cadet. If Sharpshooter sticks, it is pretty much lights out for DnT, Elves, Infect, and Pyro. Sharpshooter is especially good against Elves because their only out is Abrupt Decay. My deck also has three copies of Lightning Greaves so most of the time, Sharpshooter is protected with haste. Sure, Sharpshooter costs more with Lodestone Golem, but I think it's power level is worth the price, whatever that may be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wilkin
I think they are Myr Tokens. Which is a bit odd because I don't see Myr Battlesphere or another way to generate Myr Tokens. Maybe I missed something.
I normally have Myr Tokens ready just in case I want to swap out for Myr Battlesphere over Sundering Titan in the main. Actually, I have a maybe-board of 60 some odd MUD cards just in case I need to adjust for the meta. For example, if I go the the store Gamer's Edge, I know to expect 3-4 regular Lands players out of like 16 people, so I'd put in an extra Mountain, Blood Moon in side, and maybe some Pithing Needles. Also have all these token with me all the time:
http://i.imgur.com/4pH7DBXl.jpg
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
L10:
I have Whipflare in my board to deal with pesky things since I don't run Welder in my list, but I do like the idea of Sharpshooter, Think I'll try it out when I give my Welders a workout again, Cavern on Goblins would be wonderful. As an extra-ish red source I play a single Solemn Simulacrum, plays well with Forgemaster and a welding Daretti.
I also actually put my Blightsteel in my sideboard because with DTT getting banned, there is a decrease in creatureless/creature light decks and bring it in whenever there is a combo or a control deck with few answers to a hasty BSC.
I am working on a list, and I plan on sharing it in a few weeks once I've played with it more and fiddle with some numbers a little more.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
I may try Solemn Simulacrum in place of Staff of Domination and Myr Battlesphere in place of Blightsteel Colossus. Though, I currently don't have issues with Blightsteel. I have stolen quite a few games post-DTT with BSC on Turn 2 or Turn 3, thanks to Greaves.
What do you think about Revoker in the main? Do you think it's needed?
Yeah. Let me know. I am always interested in your lists, Fry.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
L10
Fry plays a list with Daretti and Ugin, but no Welder or Lodestone Golem (opting solely for Trinisphere).
In a Welder list, Ugin is perfectly viable in the SB where Welder isn't strong. For example, Welder is very weak against Death and Taxes because they will be expecting him (preemptive Revoker) and that both Containment Priest and Grafdigger's Cage would be a even greater blow-out, being able to deal with both Welder and Forgemaster. They also have access to RIP too. Against D&T, I usually take both Welder and Daretti out for Sharpshooter, Ugin, etc.
Well, the thing with welder builds in general is that it is harder to get to 8 mana (and hold that). Grim Monolith mostly stays tapped. Your City of Traitors often leave. Ancient Tombs become a liability and Metalworker either gets removed or lacks artifacts in your hand. Cloudpost manabase delivers another angle, and a pretty reliable one. The thing i often feel when playing Welder are the explosive starts or game stealing plays it can deploy, that, or you run out of gas as it has more of an all-in approach and never recover.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
I think this a matter of play style. I tend to play more mid-range than aggro, even though I can do broken things in the first few turns. For me, Welder is really a means to get value off of Forgemaster, counterspells, and discard spells. I am not playing an all-in Welder list. If I
were, I'd be more inclined to drop Chalice to include cards like Faithless Looting, Lotus Petal, and the fourth Welder. Instead, I play cards like Revoker and Daretti to give myself more protection and inevitability. The problem with going all in with the Welder plan is that strong grave hate like RIP exists, main deck grave hate like DRS and Ooze exists, and the deck sometimes falls
apart without Welder. I have no issues using my mana to untap Grim Monolith if it's the right call, or weld it out from the grave.
You are correct that City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb can be liabilities, and that Metalworker usually hits the bin. Though, Metalworker tends to live longer in my list due to the four Chalices and three Greaves. However, in my current list, I am not playing Ugin for those reasons you listed, and that I don't want to wreck my deck’s mana curve. If I were to include Ugin, I'd have to include cards like Thran Dyanmo and Voltaic Key to help with mana.
In Fry's list, since he plays with 23 lands, Solemn Simulacrum, no Wastelands (he plays Darksteel Citadel instead), and no Lodestone Golems, casting Ugin hasn't really been an issue.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
The wife's at a conference in Stanford this week, so I'm obviously playing Magic. Went over to Whose Turn Is It Games, whose weekly I haven't gone to yet. Only 6 people tonight; I guess they're more of a Limited/Standard shop. Since I haven't posted it lately, my list was:
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone
4 Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil
1 Platinum Empirion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel
2 Ugin
4 Monolith
4 Chalice
3 Trinisphere
2 Greaves
1 Staff of Domination
1 Coercive Portal
1 Staff of Nin
1 Spine of Ish Sah
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls
12 Post
1 Platinum Angel
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Contagion Engine
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Crucible
1 Tsabo's Web
2 Tormod's Crypt
Round I: rogue Grixis Tezzeret brew: 1-2
- Game 1: MUD does exactly what it's supposed to do and I win. All I see from him are Grixis duals and Counterbalance, so I assume he's on some type of super secret Miracles tech.
- Game 2: (Thinking he's on Miracles, I don't sideboard) . . . He surprises me with a Turn 1 Welder. I'm confused. It's followed up with Pithing Needle (on Forgemaster) and Ensnaring Bridge. I hardcast several ridiculous cards, like Blightsteel and Wurmcoil, but can't do anything thanks to Bridge. He gradually picks off my good creatures with Welder, swapping them for Chalices in my graveyard. Eventually he's got a ton of artifacts (Top, Bridge, Mirrodin lands, etc), he puts down a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, and ultimates me a few turns later.
- Game 3: (+1 Spine, +2 Pithing Needle, +2 Crucible, -2 Ugin, -1 Forgemaster, -1 Monolith, -1 something else. Trying to minimize what Pithing Needle can shut off.) Same deal as last game, but he's suddenly rife with Kolaghan's Commands and Rakdos Charms. Ugly, ugly match. My only solace is that he went 3-0; neither his DnT nor Reanimator opponents could figure out his deck any better than I could.
Round II: Storm: 2-0
- Game 1: A quick Trinisphere + Lodestone does it.
- Game 2: (-1 Greaves, -2 Ugin, +1 Platinum Angel, +2 Thorn. I probably should have boarded in Tormod's Crypt, but I wasn't thinking about Past In Flames.) Same deal, basically. He's off to a slow start, so I land a Lodestone. Shortly thereafter Sundering Titan cleans it up.
Round III: BUG Delver: 2-0
- Game 1: My opponent was just getting into Legacy, and it seems to me like he picked a hard deck to start off with! Pretty grindy game: he whittles away my hand via Liliana and Thoughtseize, while also dropping a Delver, a Confidant, and a pair of Deathrites. Fortunately, I'm dropping Posts, being smart about my discards, and paying attention to his Delver/Confidant information. As a result, when I hit 8 mana I've got an Ugin in hand and know he only has a Brainstorm. Brainstorm gets him nothing, I wipe the board with Ugin, and that's that.
- Game 2: (+2 Crucible, +2 Ratchet Bomb, -2 Forgemaster, -1 Coercive Portal, -1 Spine.) He Turn 1 Thoughtseizes away my Crucible :cry: I respond by Wasting him off his land. He struggles to catch up on mana, while I get down a pair of Lodestones via Cavern and proceed to beat face.
Thoughts:
- I struggle with rogue brews I'm unfamiliar with. Does anyone have tips on adapting to decks that you haven't seen/don't understand?
- I never realized how devastating an opposing Welder or 2 can be to MUD.
- Storm seems like a cakewalk for us, though I assume TES is harder than ANT. Has everyone else found that?
- 3 Caverns is too many. I'm cutting 1 for a 2nd City of Traitors.
- I really like Wasteland. I've found that playing it Turn 1 can fuck up a lot of decks: nuking a dual can throw off their whole tempo, while it's fine to delay our mana development 1 turn if we're gonna have Ancient Tomb/City/the 12-post package online soon. That's especially been true vs the various Grixis/BURG/BUG Delver builds, and even more especially true with Crucible. To those of you not playing Wastes: how are your Delver matchups going?
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
UBr Tezz isn't exactly rogue, but isn't exactly commonplace either. Good thing he didn't cast Dack. I would have kept in Ugin.
Quote:
- I struggle with rogue brews I'm unfamiliar with. Does anyone have tips on adapting to decks that you haven't seen/don't understand?
If you are fighting against a deck you are unfamiliar with, I think it is generally best to minimize SB, as it can dilute your strategy. The only cards I really care about are their win con, and if I have a SB card that can hedge against that, it is all I probably put in.
Quote:
- I never realized how devastating an opposing Welder or 2 can be to MUD.
Welder, the bane of Shops since forever. Red in general has the best artifact hate. Though, I guess Energy Flux is technically the best artifact hate.
Quote:
- Storm seems like a cakewalk for us, though I assume TES is harder than ANT. Has everyone else found that?
TES is harder because they can, and do, go off in T1 or T2. TES is quite popular here, which is why I am partial to Thorn over Trinisphere. ANT tends to have a hard time against MUD, probably the worst match-up next to Miracles, because we tend to go off by T3 or T4, and by that time, a lock place is already in place. I only recently took out two Hurkyl's Recall from my SB because I am hedging that due to the DTT ban, Metalworker and Chalice-based strategies would get less popular. Though, recent innovations from the Facebook group is starting to hedge against decks that can deploy lock pieces by Turn 2, as a way to go under the Miracles match-up. One of the innovations is the three Empty the Warrens tech, which Caleb Scherer used to win the recent SCG 5K. What this does is help make ANT a T2 to T3 deck, due to the increase in threat density. From testing, I can generally make 4-6 Goblins by T2, which then allows me to flashback Cabal Therapy to shred my opponent's hand even more. I will try to go off again in two turns for another 4-6 Goblins. Rinse and repeat until my opponent die, much like the Grinding Station method. MUD is still very much in the advantage though.
Edit:
I meant 4-6 Goblins, not 8-12. I must have been very tired.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Went 4-0 in a small local tournament.
4 metalworker
3 Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
2 Staff of Domination
1 Staff of Nin
2 Lotus Petal
2 Grim Monolith
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Lightning Greaves
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Spine of Ish Sah
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Wasteland
SIDE. 4 Pithing Needle. 2 Powder Keg. 1 Ratchet Bomb. 2 Tormod's Crypt. 2 Faerie Macabre. 1 Batterskull. 1 Sphere of Resistance. 1 Bane of Bala Ged. 1 Crucible of Worlds.
Round 1. Sneak/show. Won in 2. Newish player
Game 1. I spam a couple of Lodestones in the first few turns to slow him down. He show and tells in Griselbrand. I put in Wurmcoil Engine. He draws 7 but that forces him to block Wurmcoil when I swing. He's able to Show and Tell in Emrakul a turn later but I have 2 Lodestones and 2 Wurmcoil Tokens so he's dead even if he blocks.
Game 2. Show and Tell. I put in Ensnaring Bridge. I later put in a Pithing Needle. So his Sneak Attack is no good. I Forgemaster away for a Blightsteel for the win.
Round 2. Elves. Win in 3.
Game 1. Mull to 4. I don't bother playing anything. Most people put me on Deadguy Ale so I figure, I'm dead anyway why bother showing what I am playing?
Game 2. Turn 1 Trinisphere via Petal and Tomb. Turn 2. Metalworker with City of Traitors. Turn 3. Staff of Domination. Turn 4. Win. Opponent kept a 1 lander.
Game 3. Turn 2 Trinisphere. Turn 3 Another Trinisphere. Turn 4. Steel Hellkite that on his turn gets blown up by a Reclamation Sage. Turn 5. Ugin shows up. GG.
Round 3. Rug Delver. Win in 2.
Game 1. He has the first turn Delver that flips (He mulled to 6 and kept the scry on top). But on my first turn I land the Chalice on 1. I take a few smacks but I'm able to Metalworker and Staff combo.
Game 2. Chalice on 1 again early. He keeps a greedy 1 land hand. SO I waste him and it's over.
Round 4. Shardless Bug. Win in 3.
Game 1. Chalice on 1 does the trick. Wurmcoil was Liliana'd away but I put too many things into play.
Game 2. No Chalice. Hymn gets rid of Batterskull and something else relevant. A critical mistake. I have no other cards in hand, I topdeck a Cavern and plop it down. I now have 6 mana. I name Construct. I had another cavern naming Golem. Should have named Wurm.....since I topdeck Wurmcoil Engine that gets countered.
Game 3. Chalice on 1. His hand was Goyf and lots of 1's. And draws into more 1's.
Notes:
-Love the Cloudpost Mana. So abusive and it makes the deck less reliant on Metalworker.
-Sideboard notes. I like the 4 Needles. I usually name Wasteland but today it went in vs Elves and Sneak Attack. Sometimes when I board in Needles, the Chalices come out like eg. vs Death and Taxes. Sometimes they both go in, such as vs Lands. Needle has a whole lot of things to name from Wasteland to Stage. And Chalice is probably going to be set at 2 for Loam and possibly 3 for Krosan Grip.
-Trying out a Bane of Bala Ged in board. Have yet to see it. It was a Sundering Titan in Board but I wanted a different threat.
-Also trying out a singleton Crucible of Worlds in board. Have yet to see it but I don't board it in very often.
-2 Staff of Domination is great. I tried out a Coercive Portal. It was alright but Staff can end the game with Metalworker and even without it, with Cloudpost mana I've drawn 3 or 4 cards a turn. And today I used the Staff to tap down a Goyf to allow Wurmcoil to swing for the win.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wilkin
Went 4-0 in a small local tournament.
4 metalworker
3 Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
2 Staff of Domination
1 Staff of Nin
2 Lotus Petal
2 Grim Monolith
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Lightning Greaves
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Spine of Ish Sah
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Wasteland
SIDE. 4 Pithing Needle. 2 Powder Keg. 1 Ratchet Bomb. 2 Tormod's Crypt. 2 Faerie Macabre. 1 Batterskull. 1 Sphere of Resistance. 1 Bane of Bala Ged. 1 Crucible of Worlds.
Round 1. Sneak/show. Won in 2. Newish player
Game 1. I spam a couple of Lodestones in the first few turns to slow him down. He show and tells in Griselbrand. I put in Wurmcoil Engine. He draws 7 but that forces him to block Wurmcoil when I swing. He's able to Show and Tell in Emrakul a turn later but I have 2 Lodestones and 2 Wurmcoil Tokens so he's dead even if he blocks.
Game 2. Show and Tell. I put in Ensnaring Bridge. I later put in a Pithing Needle. So his Sneak Attack is no good. I Forgemaster away for a Blightsteel for the win.
Round 2. Elves. Win in 3.
Game 1. Mull to 4. I don't bother playing anything. Most people put me on Deadguy Ale so I figure, I'm dead anyway why bother showing what I am playing?
Game 2. Turn 1 Trinisphere via Petal and Tomb. Turn 2. Metalworker with City of Traitors. Turn 3. Staff of Domination. Turn 4. Win. Opponent kept a 1 lander.
Game 3. Turn 2 Trinisphere. Turn 3 Another Trinisphere. Turn 4. Steel Hellkite that on his turn gets blown up by a Reclamation Sage. Turn 5. Ugin shows up. GG.
Round 3. Rug Delver. Win in 2.
Game 1. He has the first turn Delver that flips (He mulled to 6 and kept the scry on top). But on my first turn I land the Chalice on 1. I take a few smacks but I'm able to Metalworker and Staff combo.
Game 2. Chalice on 1 again early. He keeps a greedy 1 land hand. SO I waste him and it's over.
Round 4. Shardless Bug. Win in 3.
Game 1. Chalice on 1 does the trick. Wurmcoil was Liliana'd away but I put too many things into play.
Game 2. No Chalice. Hymn gets rid of Batterskull and something else relevant. A critical mistake. I have no other cards in hand, I topdeck a Cavern and plop it down. I now have 6 mana. I name Construct. I had another cavern naming Golem. Should have named Wurm.....since I topdeck Wurmcoil Engine that gets countered.
Game 3. Chalice on 1. His hand was Goyf and lots of 1's. And draws into more 1's.
Notes:
-Love the Cloudpost Mana. So abusive and it makes the deck less reliant on Metalworker.
-Sideboard notes. I like the 4 Needles. I usually name Wasteland but today it went in vs Elves and Sneak Attack. Sometimes when I board in Needles, the Chalices come out like eg. vs Death and Taxes. Sometimes they both go in, such as vs Lands. Needle has a whole lot of things to name from Wasteland to Stage. And Chalice is probably going to be set at 2 for Loam and possibly 3 for Krosan Grip.
-Trying out a Bane of Bala Ged in board. Have yet to see it. It was a Sundering Titan in Board but I wanted a different threat.
-Also trying out a singleton Crucible of Worlds in board. Have yet to see it but I don't board it in very often.
-2 Staff of Domination is great. I tried out a Coercive Portal. It was alright but Staff can end the game with Metalworker and even without it, with Cloudpost mana I've drawn 3 or 4 cards a turn. And today I used the Staff to tap down a Goyf to allow Wurmcoil to swing for the win.
Thank you for your report! I'm glad someone else is enjoying 2 staff of domination in the main as well. AND pithing needle in the sideboard as an answer to wasteland. I want to try out bane of bala ged at some point as well, but I'm worried his non-artifactness is going to make him less amazing. It's also hard to justify him over Karn Liberated in the same slot. Does your metagame have a lot of graveyard based decks? I noticed you have the 2 faerie macabre and 2 tormod's crypts. I've found 2 tormod's crypts is enough for graveyard decks, since trinisphere or chalice can hose dredge, or at least slow it down a lot. Trinisphere or chalice also hoses reanimator pretty well, so the pre-board matchup is pretty good already. Post-board vs reanimator we can board in show and tell goodies (like spine of ish sah, which has multiple purposes as well). I guess it's probably helpful vs lands.dec and life from the loam strategies though...
Do you miss having 4 wastelands, or have you not noticed much of a detriment?
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
-Bane of Bala Ged should be probably be Karn Liberated. Want to try something different to see if it's any good. So far haven't seen it all it, the fact that it's an Eldrazi and not an artifact is only a huge deal if I have Lodestone Golem already out. So....it could matter but it's not a factor on whether I'll play Bane or not. I play 2 Ugins main and there are times where Ugin costs 9 or 10 because of Lodestone. Or worse yet, because Ugin is more expensive I can't cast it. Annoying but still worth it.
-There are a few Lands decks where I'm at and Reanimator is making a bit of a comeback with Dig Through Time gone so I felt it was necessary to have some Graveyard hate.
-Personally I find Trinisphere doesn't slow Dredge down enough. An Ichorid and a Bridge from Below is more than enough pressure.
-Not terribly concerned with only 2 Wastelands. It's only really there for problematic lands like Academy Ruins or Maze of Ith etc. I only wasted in the game I mentioned since I saw the opponent miss a Land drop after a Ponder.
-Yeah 2 Staffs are great. I combo a fair bit with Metalworker now that I have 2 Staffs of Domination. I tried 2 Staffs of Nin but I found it too clunky as there are already plenty of 6+ mana drops in the deck.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
L10
If you are fighting against a deck you are unfamiliar with, I think it is generally best to minimize SB, as it can dilute your strategy. The only cards I really care about are their win con, and if I have a SB card that can hedge against that, it is all I probably put in.
. . .
TES is harder because they can, and do, go off in T1 or T2. TES is quite popular here, which is why I am partial to Thorn over Trinisphere. ANT tends to have a hard time against MUD, probably the worst match-up next to Miracles, because we tend to go off by T3 or T4, and by that time, a lock place is already in place. I only recently took out two Hurkyl's Recall from my SB because I am hedging that due to the DTT ban, Metalworker and Chalice-based strategies would get less popular. Though, recent innovations from the Facebook group is starting to hedge against decks that can deploy lock pieces by Turn 2, as a way to go under the Miracles match-up. One of the innovations is the three Empty the Warrens tech, which Caleb Scherer used to win the recent SCG 5K. What this does is help make ANT a T2 to T3 deck, due to the increase in threat density. From testing, I can generally make 4-6 Goblins by T2, which then allows me to flashback Cabal Therapy to shred my opponent's hand even more. I will try to go off again in two turns for another 4-6 Goblins. Rinse and repeat until my opponent die, much like the Grinding Station method. MUD is still very much in the advantage though.
Cheers L10. I think that's probably a good rule of thumb for sideboarding. I tend to overreact and want 5+ board pieces, but that throws off my deck composition.
Thorn v Trinisphere is an interesting point. I'm regularly underwhelmed by Trinisphere. My line of thinking tends to be: "So Chalice is shutting off their 1 drops, and Lodestone can make their 2-drops cost 3. What's the point of Trinisphere, then?" Of course, there are obviously a bunch of problems with that thought, and who knows how many times a Trinisphere has looked to me like it isn't doing much, but it's making my opponent sweat? That said, Thorn has been devastating against Storm decks, and after playing some Vintage Shops, I wouldn't mind testing it out maindeck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wilkin
Went 4-0 in a small local tournament.
. . .
-Love the Cloudpost Mana. So abusive and it makes the deck less reliant on Metalworker.
-Sideboard notes. I like the 4 Needles. I usually name Wasteland but today it went in vs Elves and Sneak Attack. Sometimes when I board in Needles, the Chalices come out like eg. vs Death and Taxes. Sometimes they both go in, such as vs Lands. Needle has a whole lot of things to name from Wasteland to Stage. And Chalice is probably going to be set at 2 for Loam and possibly 3 for Krosan Grip.
-Trying out a Bane of Bala Ged in board. Have yet to see it. It was a Sundering Titan in Board but I wanted a different threat.
-Also trying out a singleton Crucible of Worlds in board. Have yet to see it but I don't board it in very often.
-2 Staff of Domination is great. I tried out a Coercive Portal. It was alright but Staff can end the game with Metalworker and even without it, with Cloudpost mana I've drawn 3 or 4 cards a turn. And today I used the Staff to tap down a Goyf to allow Wurmcoil to swing for the win.
Nicely done! Some thoughts & questions:
- Yes, Cloudpost is the best land ever printed :cool:
- I'm surprised to see Ensnaring Bridge in the maindeck. Have you run into problems with it shutting down your board and not having a Forgemaster to get rid of it? I'm assuming you must have a lot of Reanimator & Emrakul decks in your meta.
- How have you liked Batterskull? I was thinking about testing it.
- I highly recommend Crucible. That said, there's a lot of Delver in my meta and I'm running 4 Wastes, so the Crucible-lock has been great for me.
