[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

Sadly i don't own LED either but appreciate the link. Definitely interested but, a long way off..

I have everything for the older style lists but the Goryo's so might try work something out.

LED seems to be the stumbling block to both of the new variants!

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Originally Posted by hovercraft

Yeah I found it a bit strange how much Marit Laige was my main win con too. In your old non green fins version, and with goldfishing I found Griselbrand is much more common too. A lot of the marit laige routes were after people used discard or counters against me to stop/take away my reanimation combos so that's one factor. I also didn't play against DnT or Miracles. Maverick was the only STP/Karakas deck I played against and he didn't have either card during the 2 games. 3 of my 4 matches were on stream if you are curious: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/251153585 Match 1, 3 and 4. Forgive my misplays and the general chatter, we have a pretty casual legacy group.

I love Collective Brutality as well, but space is definitely tight. I do think you could maybe trim 1 Hexmage(or Stage) and potentially 1/4 Living Wish to test some CBs. I actually ran 18 lands not 19(cut 1 fetch) on Monday too, with the extra card being Unmask #2. This might have helped me draw gas, but I did still mull a lot. I do like how Hexmage can be pitched to Unmask and can sometime just be a planeswalker removal spell.

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One thing I noticed is the first time you drew with Griselbrand you just drew 14 right away. Always draw 7 at a time. When you draw an LED (especially with 14 more cards to come) abandoning those 7 cards for BBB will go a long way to prevent fizzles. Sometimes you even draw two LEDS in those first 7 and can make black and green for wish. You will almost never fizzle from that spot.

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Originally Posted by NedB37

Sadly i don't own LED either but appreciate the link. Definitely interested but, a long way off..

I have everything for the older style lists but the Goryo's so might try work something out.

LED seems to be the stumbling block to both of the new variants!

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Try Corpse Dance in the older lists! I've never tested it there, myself, but seems like a reasonable substitute on a budget. As someone else mentioned, you can't make Griselbrand off of a dark ritual alone with Corpse Dance, but it does have some other advantages. It can reanimate Children of Korlis, which Goryo's Vengeance cannot. Maybe buyback is relevant sometime?

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Originally Posted by Jblinder

One thing I noticed is the first time you drew with Griselbrand you just drew 14 right away. Always draw 7 at a time. When you draw an LED (especially with 14 more cards to come) abandoning those 7 cards for BBB will go a long way to prevent fizzles. Sometimes you even draw two LEDS in those first 7 and can make black and green for wish. You will almost never fizzle from that spot.

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Cool thanks, I can see the logic there. I generally have just been drawing to 14 right away most games, so I should slow that down. I'm looking forward to getting more reps in with the deck, nothing quite like drawing your whole deck out with Griselbrand.

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Originally Posted by Acclimation

Want to run Corpse Dance? Only own 2?

Well, I have the deck for you! http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...e-Griselbrand)



As far as Goryo's not seeing as much play, 85% of the GY hate played is targeted, and Silent Gravestone has been insane in shutting those down. Since Goryo and Gravestone are a nonbo, people have been playing either the Depths version with Exhume (Tinfinland or Ice Station Zebra) or being extra rad and chaining together Magus of the Mind activations with Bizarro Stormy or running the mono-Black version for some reason.


There is absolutely nothing stopping you from rocking a more traditional Tinfins list with Goryo's. Deck is still good, but the meta is a bit friendlier to the other variants right now, in my opinion, because of Silent Gravestone.

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For a reanimation package, I cannot recommend enough the shallow grave/exhume/reanimate picks. All the reanimation spells tag all creatures, except for Emrakul, who is the last of my concerns. It also dodges the nonbo with silent gravestone as sideboarding usually goes an even swap of (reanimate:gravestone).

I can confirm that in my local meta which is a lot of fair decks (D&T, Mav., Delver), silent gravestone has been great.

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Originally Posted by Kobra_D

For a reanimation package, I cannot recommend enough the shallow grave/exhume/reanimate picks. All the reanimation spells tag all creatures, except for Emrakul, who is the last of my concerns. It also dodges the nonbo with silent gravestone as sideboarding usually goes an even swap of (reanimate:gravestone).

I can confirm that in my local meta which is a lot of fair decks (D&T, Mav., Delver), silent gravestone has been great.

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Sure, in this deck or the BG version I can see that. I don't like Exhume in Bizarro stormy though, as you really really want Magus of the Mind to have haste.

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Originally Posted by .dk

Sure, in this deck or the BG version I can see that. I don't like Exhume in Bizarro stormy though, as you really really want Magus of the Mind to have haste.

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I can see that, Bizarro stormy is pushed into the all-in turn it seems. I just always liked exhume because it gave me one more way to stick children. For one reason or another it has been easier to stick children than it has to land a griselbrand. That is probably hugely biased because I simply will remember the times that I start to combo and fizzle way more than the times my combo is disrupted so take it with a huge grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by Acclimation

As far as Goryo's not seeing as much play, 85% of the GY hate played is targeted, and Silent Gravestone has been insane in shutting those down. Since Goryo and Gravestone are a nonbo, people have been playing either the Depths version with Exhume (Tinfinland or Ice Station Zebra) or being extra rad and chaining together Magus of the Mind activations with Bizarro Stormy or running the mono-Black version for some reason.


There is absolutely nothing stopping you from rocking a more traditional Tinfins list with Goryo's. Deck is still good, but the meta is a bit friendlier to the other variants right now, in my opinion, because of Silent Gravestone.

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It definitely seems like Silent Gravestone obviates the need to run Goryo's Vengeance completely. Neat.

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Originally Posted by Kobra_D

I can see that, Bizarro stormy is pushed into the all-in turn it seems. I just always liked exhume because it gave me one more way to stick children. For one reason or another it has been easier to stick children than it has to land a griselbrand. That is probably hugely biased because I simply will remember the times that I start to combo and fizzle way more than the times my combo is disrupted so take it with a huge grain of salt.

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Confirmation Bias can be very real. :) But what you describe is one reason when ran more Reanimates as well in later lists. Think the last time I played the deck, I was on 4 Shallow Grave, 3 Vengeance, 2 Reanimate. Reanimate was also always pretty good with Mentor out of the sideboard too.

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Originally Posted by .dk

I was on 4 Shallow Grave, 3 Vengeance, 2 Reanimate.

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This was my exact config before going Burning Wish / LED / Exhume etc. It's always pleasurable to have them discard a card and take the traditional route of reanimating their creature.

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Originally Posted by scottpou

This was my exact config before going Burning Wish / LED / Exhume etc. It's always pleasurable to have them discard a card and take the traditional route of reanimating their creature.

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Yeah, I've definitely won more than 1 game by reanimating a tarmogoyf or something.

Maindeck Changes:
-2 Thoughtseize, -1 Exhume, -1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
+2 Unmask, +1 Act on Impulse, +1 Laboratory Maniac

-1 Bloodstained Mire, -1 Marsh Flats
+1 Bayou, +1 Gemstone Mine

I've gotten stuck a couple times without being able to discard for free so I swapped 2 thoughtseize for 2 unmasks. I really wanted enchantment hate available again as a BW target, and after swapping AoI in for an Exhume, Reverent Silence had it's spot back. I've noticed miracles decreasing in play a bit, and if Emmy is out of the main, Emmy and SI (the anti-miracles package) can conveniently become Baubles in the sideboard. Also while not ideal, this maindeck config can produce a pass the turn pile if graveyard/storm is cut off.

Current list:

CREATURES (6):
4 Griselbrand
1 Children of Korlis
1 Laboratory Maniac

INSTANTS AND SORCERIES (33):
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
1 Exhume
1 Unburial Rites
4 Faithless Looting
4 Burning Wish
1 Act on Impulse
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Unmask

OTHER SPELLS (7):
4 Lotus Petal
3 Lion's Eye Diamond

LANDS (14)
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Gemstone Mine
2 Swamp
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs


SIDEBOARD:

WISH TARGETS (8):
1 Exhume
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 By Force
1 Reverent Silence
1 Doomsday

DD (7):
3 Doomsday
2 Edge of Autumn
2 Conjurer's Bauble // 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, 1 Shelldock Isle

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Originally Posted by scottpou

Maindeck Changes:
-2 Thoughtseize, -1 Exhume, -1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
+2 Unmask, +1 Act on Impulse, +1 Laboratory Maniac

-1 Bloodstained Mire, -1 Marsh Flats
+1 Bayou, +1 Gemstone Mine

I've gotten stuck a couple times without being able to discard for free so I swapped 2 thoughtseize for 2 unmasks. I really wanted enchantment hate available again as a BW target, and after swapping AoI in for an Exhume, Reverent Silence had it's spot back. I've noticed miracles decreasing in play a bit, and if Emmy is out of the main, Emmy and SI (the anti-miracles package) can conveniently become Baubles in the sideboard. Also while not ideal, this maindeck config can produce a pass the turn pile if graveyard/storm is cut off.

Current list:

CREATURES (6):
4 Griselbrand
1 Children of Korlis
1 Laboratory Maniac

INSTANTS AND SORCERIES (33):
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
1 Exhume
1 Unburial Rites
4 Faithless Looting
4 Burning Wish
1 Act on Impulse
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Unmask

OTHER SPELLS (7):
4 Lotus Petal
3 Lion's Eye Diamond

LANDS (14)
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Gemstone Mine
2 Swamp
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs


SIDEBOARD:

WISH TARGETS (8):
1 Exhume
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 By Force
1 Reverent Silence
1 Doomsday

DD (7):
3 Doomsday
2 Edge of Autumn
2 Conjurer's Bauble // 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, 1 Shelldock Isle

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I do prefer laboratory maniac in the main over emrakul since it plays nice with LED; I also REALLY love killing people with labman. however, i don’t think either should be in the main. Gaddock Teeg is the only card I can think of where you will be able to draw the entire deck but not be able to burning wish for a lethal tendrils. There may be more situations I can’t think of, but not many, especially pre-board where they can’t surgical your wishes. Those corner cases will certainly cost you fewer games than drawing labman over some sort of business spell will. I think that any fins version using wishes should finsh games from the sideboard—it’s one of the advantages in that you have one fewer dead draw.

Edit: I think I get it now. You need labman on wish for doomsday lines. Probably ignore but I’ll leave this up.

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Originally Posted by Jblinder

... I don’t think either should be in the main... any fins version using wishes should finsh games from the sideboard—it’s one of the advantages in that you have one fewer dead draw.

Edit: I think I get it now. You need labman on wish for doomsday lines. Probably ignore but I’ll leave this up.

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100% agree. If I was on a reactive, mentor, or depths sideboard, I would not have Labman in. He's just required for a pass the turn DD pile if you can't storm out.

Also my default sideboarding has been:

-3 Griselbrand, -1 Exhume, -1 Unburial Rites, -1 Cabal Therapy, -1 Unmask
+3 Doomsday, +2 Edge of Autumn, +2 Conjurer's Bauble

Obviouslly it can be different. Sometimes I'll leave the Therapy and Unmask in and -2 Probe or -2 Shallow Grave. Often times those decisions are based on the opponent and not their deck. Sometimes, entomb -> griselbrand to pressure them to Surgical/FoW is how you turn your entomb into a discard spell.

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Originally Posted by .dk

Try Corpse Dance in the older lists! I've never tested it there, myself, but seems like a reasonable substitute on a budget. As someone else mentioned, you can't make Griselbrand off of a dark ritual alone with Corpse Dance, but it does have some other advantages. It can reanimate Children of Korlis, which Goryo's Vengeance cannot. Maybe buyback is relevant sometime?

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I have 1x Goryo's on the way for now and will supplement with 2x Corpse Dance, until i can trade for more.

My body is ready!

Although, still not settled on the list to go with...

So a couple friends and I were going through old cards and removing anything valuable for us to sell/trade for more duals/tabernacle. (Side note: HOW are Spore Frog over $2?! Well we pulled out almost 40 of those. Time to crash the market.) When one friend turns to me and goes: "Hey can you fit 1 of these into TinFins?" He was holding Burnt Offering. I reread the card since I forgot what it was, and yeah I'm now trying 1 of those out. If mid combo, I sac Gris for 8 red and/or black mana and it's enough to always kill via Wish. I took out an LED for now, but I'm thinking I want to go back to 3 LED. Am I crazy to try and fit 1 of these in here?

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Originally Posted by scottpou

So a couple friends and I were going through old cards and removing anything valuable for us to sell/trade for more duals/tabernacle. (Side note: HOW are Spore Frog over $2?! Well we pulled out almost 40 of those. Time to crash the market.) When one friend turns to me and goes: "Hey can you fit 1 of these into TinFins?" He was holding Burnt Offering. I reread the card since I forgot what it was, and yeah I'm now trying 1 of those out. If mid combo, I sac Gris for 8 red and/or black mana and it's enough to always kill via Wish. I took out an LED for now, but I'm thinking I want to go back to 3 LED. Am I crazy to try and fit 1 of these in here?

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Purely from a flavour perspective; i love it.

Sacrificing children to a burnt offering? Perfect. You could argue Sacrifice does the same job in non-R lists?

Also, on Sporefrog, see both Meren and now Muldrotha in EDH. It's amazing in recursive graveyard decks. The foil is something crazy like $40.

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Originally Posted by NedB37

Purely from a flavour perspective; i love it. Sacrificing children to a burnt offering? Perfect. You could argue Sacrifice does the same job in non-R lists?

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It is a dead card until mid-combo, but boy has it been nice. I'm wondering if it's just overkill and win-more though. On the shallow grave combos it's overkill because storm count only needs to be 7 to Tendrils for 14 with the attack phase. However, on the exhume hands burnt has really been helping when mana gets tight to get the necessary spells off. I'm on the fence and will continue testing.

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Originally Posted by NedB37

The foil is something crazy like $40.

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Yeah we have 4 foil too. More USea's coming in hot! I still think its insanity.

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Originally Posted by scottpou

So a couple friends and I were going through old cards and removing anything valuable for us to sell/trade for more duals/tabernacle. (Side note: HOW are Spore Frog over $2?! Well we pulled out almost 40 of those. Time to crash the market.) When one friend turns to me and goes: "Hey can you fit 1 of these into TinFins?" He was holding Burnt Offering. I reread the card since I forgot what it was, and yeah I'm now trying 1 of those out. If mid combo, I sac Gris for 8 red and/or black mana and it's enough to always kill via Wish. I took out an LED for now, but I'm thinking I want to go back to 3 LED. Am I crazy to try and fit 1 of these in here?

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Funny, that card is cool. Richard Cheese and I tested that around 2012 or so. It's... almost good. I found the biggest bottleneck when comboing with Tin Fins is usually initial mana sources, not getting a critical mass of mana. The biggest issue with it is that it doesn't help any of the decks weaknesses, and reinforces it's strengths. It's a sweet card though :)