[Primer] Nic Fit

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Originally Posted by Nargoron

Then there is a question if it worth it to keep veterans and not rather go for mox + chalices ... or keep one vet and GSZ. But its interesting build and if works well then your clock is pretty fast and have huge card advantage. Against delver i can image this as very succesfull deck.
Only problem is that everything is up to creatures (no walkers) so for example Miracles will be pain...

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It's not. That's weaker mana acceleration. Beating Miracles isn't trivial, but it's not impossible either, they don't have any CA engines so you can just string together enough 2 for 1's that they run out of resources. I've beaten the deck many times.

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Well... yes. If you want only card that can remove oponents creature and sac your veteran then Innocent Blood is go to.
But i need equipment carriers (2x stoneforges and 2x equipment in deck), and i have recruiter, Pod and so on...

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Pod is even more of a reason you don't want to use a card like Executioner. In order to Pod into it you're giving up 2 creatures to get 1 off the field. Pod wants to build a board state. I should mention that I played Pod for well over a year, I have a very negative opinion on it from playing it. The deck slots are just too tight. Between your must haves as concessions to the format and the deck (23 land, 14 spells, 4 pods) you can run 19 creatures. Pod needs a minimum of 25 creatures in order to have a functional curve (7 1's, 6 2's, 5 3's, 4 4's, 2 5's, 1 6). In just that, the math for the deck doesn't work out in the format. But, assuming you ignore that... there's essentially one viable build for Pod which is to jump around the curve in order to maximize your options, but it suffers from consistency because you can't make a deck creature dense enough in Legacy. Cards like Ranger of Eos, Woodland Bellower, Voice of Resurgence, Entomber Exarch, Reveillark, Thragtusk, Recruiter of the Guard, Renegade Rallier, Eternal Witness, and so on.

The problem with something like SFM in Pod is that you have to pack your deck with non creatures. Just playing Jitte is more effective than playing SFM for Jitte even though you give up the tutoring. There's also the issue that most of the best cards to put in Pod are non green which plays havoc with your GSZ count.

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So i'll keep testing him... Agree that 3cmc is crowded :/

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Diabolic Edict beats both Emrakul and Griselbrand at a mana less.

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Crop is allstar card, i wish to find space for one copy ^_^

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You won't find the space in Pod. Especially not with SFM.
4 GSZ
4 Therapy
1 Deed
1 Deluge
3 2 CMC removal
3 1 CMC removal
4 Pod
2 SFM targets

That's already 22 non creatures. So you're 4 cards over budget just to pack in the interaction you need to make the deck work in the format.

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Originally Posted by Brael

It's not. That's weaker mana acceleration. Beating Miracles isn't trivial, but it's not impossible either, they don't have any CA engines so you can just string together enough 2 for 1's that they run out of resources. I've beaten the deck many times.



Pod is even more of a reason you don't want to use a card like Executioner. In order to Pod into it you're giving up 2 creatures to get 1 off the field. Pod wants to build a board state. I should mention that I played Pod for well over a year, I have a very negative opinion on it from playing it. The deck slots are just too tight. Between your must haves as concessions to the format and the deck (23 land, 14 spells, 4 pods) you can run 19 creatures. Pod needs a minimum of 25 creatures in order to have a functional curve (7 1's, 6 2's, 5 3's, 4 4's, 2 5's, 1 6). In just that, the math for the deck doesn't work out in the format. But, assuming you ignore that... there's essentially one viable build for Pod which is to jump around the curve in order to maximize your options, but it suffers from consistency because you can't make a deck creature dense enough in Legacy. Cards like Ranger of Eos, Woodland Bellower, Voice of Resurgence, Entomber Exarch, Reveillark, Thragtusk, Recruiter of the Guard, Renegade Rallier, Eternal Witness, and so on.

The problem with something like SFM in Pod is that you have to pack your deck with non creatures. Just playing Jitte is more effective than playing SFM for Jitte even though you give up the tutoring. There's also the issue that most of the best cards to put in Pod are non green which plays havoc with your GSZ count.



Diabolic Edict beats both Emrakul and Griselbrand at a mana less.



You won't find the space in Pod. Especially not with SFM.
4 GSZ
4 Therapy
1 Deed
1 Deluge
3 2 CMC removal
3 1 CMC removal
4 Pod
2 SFM targets

That's already 22 non creatures. So you're 4 cards over budget just to pack in the interaction you need to make the deck work in the format.

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Ehm, yea..
I tried Junk Pod few years ago and i agree with all of your points. Right now, the Pod is just one copy as extra spice instead of Recurring Nightmare. There are mus where its really helpful, but i agree that often its just sooo damn slow. But its so cute card :(

@Brael: Sorry for the slow response, but here's the Dark Confidant list I ran:

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
4 Siege Rhino

4 Path to Exile
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Mirri's Guile
1 Sylvan Library

It's very unpolished and needs a whole bunch of work, but it was also a lot of fun. Games pretty much played out in one of two ways. Either the deck didn't get off the ground and fell flat on its ass, or it ran like a dream, drew cards left and right and steamrolled the opponent. At some point I had a game vs. D&T where I had 2 Confidants and a Tracker on the board and managed to draw between 3-5 cards per turn for several turns straight. I still lost that game b/c my opponent had an Eldrazi Displacer and TKS that he bounced at the end of my draw step (multiple times, if he needed to) to prevent me from finding answers to his stuff, but it was still pretty damn awesome.

Guile stacks up great w/ Confidant, since you just stack the triggers on top of eachother and draw cards however is convenient for you.

The only things I felt the list lacked were utility and punching power (so probably Sigarda). Next time I'd probably dump 2 Trackers for a QPM and a Sigarda and see how that works out. I did like having that many Trackers, you threaten to draw so many cards that every single one has to be answered.

Hitting hard is a reason I like Chameleon Colossus. Protection from black is very relevant and the card gets big. I've experimented on occasion with Mistcutter Hydra too. Hydra is a bad GSZ target but a fantastic one for Bob.

I do like Guile, I like Library a little less in this type of setup. I always have trouble finding the space though.

The utility aspect was probably because of the Library+Guiles, using 4 slots on that is a lot.

I think this can goes in some Nic fit decks :

http://www.magic-ville.com/pics/big/bbd/023.jpg

Nope ?

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Originally Posted by grokh

I think this can goes in some Nic fit decks :

http://www.magic-ville.com/pics/big/bbd/023.jpg

Nope ?

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Oh this absolutely goes in a nic-fit shell. I just grabbed a couple big garruks and hoping to get a couple more ugins and nicol bolas planeswalker by days end.

Oh yes, hipster granny Rector is going to happen.

The real story from Battlebond is that Foil Veteran Explorers are now possible.

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Originally Posted by grokh

I think this can goes in some Nic fit decks :

http://www.magic-ville.com/pics/big/bbd/023.jpg

Nope ?

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That card is very, very good. I don't think it's out of the question to consider Karn Liberated or Garruk, Apex Predator. If you're going to go to the trouble of working in this new Rector it should be for something that goes above what you could already do with 4 mana. Garruk, Primal Hunter and Nissa, Vital Force are both very good and castable on their own. Including 1-2 6+ casting cost pw's seems ok in Rhino Fit. It competes with Siege Rhino, which is rough, but maybe going PW Junk Fit with Elspeth, Sun's Champion may be better.

Depending on where the pre-order price lands I might pick up a set of these.

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Originally Posted by Brael

Pod is even more of a reason you don't want to use a card like Executioner. In order to Pod into it you're giving up 2 creatures to get 1 off the field. Pod wants to build a board state. I should mention that I played Pod for well over a year, I have a very negative opinion on it from playing it. The deck slots are just too tight. Between your must haves as concessions to the format and the deck (23 land, 14 spells, 4 pods) you can run 19 creatures. Pod needs a minimum of 25 creatures in order to have a functional curve (7 1's, 6 2's, 5 3's, 4 4's, 2 5's, 1 6). In just that, the math for the deck doesn't work out in the format. But, assuming you ignore that... there's essentially one viable build for Pod which is to jump around the curve in order to maximize your options, but it suffers from consistency because you can't make a deck creature dense enough in Legacy. Cards like Ranger of Eos, Woodland Bellower, Voice of Resurgence, Entomber Exarch, Reveillark, Thragtusk, Recruiter of the Guard, Renegade Rallier, Eternal Witness, and so on.

The problem with something like SFM in Pod is that you have to pack your deck with non creatures. Just playing Jitte is more effective than playing SFM for Jitte even though you give up the tutoring. There's also the issue that most of the best cards to put in Pod are non green which plays havoc with your GSZ count.

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I beg to differ.

I've played successfully Abzan Nic Fit POD into several top 8.

- 3 POD is the better choice
- 3 veteran / 3 DRS or 4 veteran / 3 DRS or 2 Veteran / 4 DRS
- You play 21 lands (usually 1 utility if Karakas, none in BUG)
- You play a dryad arbor which push your number of creature in the deck between 22 and 24.

The best options are:
- BUG -> access to Strix + FOW + Brainstorm. But you have to sacrifice GSZ. Power level of creature is low. Games tend to be long.
- ABZAN -> access to SFM (BSK + Jitte are enough). Sigarda + Dromoka are real contender. BSK + Sigarda is gross...

1) Bug is the best against non fair decks & control
2) Abzan is the best against Tempo & Midrange

POD is a viable deck, certainly not the best in the current meta (or not) but don't underestimate its potential.

My two cents.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

That card is very, very good. I don't think it's out of the question to consider Karn Liberated or Garruk, Apex Predator. If you're going to go to the trouble of working in this new Rector it should be for something that goes above what you could already do with 4 mana. Garruk, Primal Hunter and Nissa, Vital Force are both very good and castable on their own. Including 1-2 6+ casting cost pw's seems ok in Rhino Fit. It competes with Siege Rhino, which is rough, but maybe going PW Junk Fit with Elspeth, Sun's Champion may be better.

Depending on where the pre-order price lands I might pick up a set of these.

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I will add Ugin to this list and maybe Nicol Bolas, he is great but clunky with his mana.
A Rhino list without Rhino with some tweaks might be enough in the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Matsu

I will add Ugin to this list and maybe Nicol Bolas, he is great but clunky with his mana.
A Rhino list without Rhino with some tweaks might be enough in the beginning.

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I wasn't thinking big enough, lol. I was thinking it might be a good idea to have a way to 'cheat' the pws into play but also be able to pay for them if the game goes long enough. Karn/Garruk/Ugin are all actually quite reasonable in the late game. Nicol Bolas, while incredibly powerful, isn't castable with the current Junk mana-base.

I would think it would be a straight swap with Rhino to get the Rectors in, change around the toolbox of creatures a little (not too much), so we're looking at the most about 7 cards to slot in: 4x Rector, 3x bomb PW. I would probably go Karn, Ugin, and Garruk Apex Predator. A Thragtusk needs to go back in because of the loss of Rhinos, but that shouldn't be too hard.

Rough list:

4x Vet
3x Deathrite
4x New Wreck-ter
1x Thragtusk
1x ScOoze
1x Witness
1x Meren
1x Sigarda
1x Pridemage/RecSage

4x Therapy
4x GSZ
3x StP
2x Decay
3x Deed
1x Ugin
1x Karn
1x Garruk
2x Library/Guile

22x lands (Arbor, 8-10 fetch, 3-5 dual, 7 basic, 1-2x utility)

I'm also thinking that Elspeth, Sun's Champion could be good here. With the pw's being so powerful a Deed could be cut for Elspeth, another land, a Thoughtseize, Vindicate, etc.

Sideboard could have some silver-bullet PW's like Liliana of the Veil for sacrifice effect, Garruk PH for grinding, Gideon otT to *not* lose, etc.

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Originally Posted by ReAnimator

The real story from Battlebond is that Foil Veteran Explorers are now possible.

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Yup!

On Granny Rectors - all you need is Ugin, 6 mana Elspeth and you-can't-win Gideon.

Ugin kills fair, Elspeth kills Eldrazi & Show and Tell, Gideon kills combo.

My stuff has been ordered :laugh:

I think you're almost obligated to build:

4 Academy Rector
4 Arena Rector
2 Eureka

8 Nic Fit
4 Thoughtseize
4 GSZ/Flex

22-24 Lands

10-12 Kill Cards (Walkers, Enchantment Bombs, Pernicious Deed)

Too bad Eureka is $500...

I will try something like this:

8 Fetchlands
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
1 Island
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Siege Rhino
3 Arena Rector
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Collective Brutality
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Innocent Blood
1 Toxic Deluge

2 Sylvan Library
1 Pernicious Deed

1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Because Flavour Delver and Czech pile are over represented Deluge should be played in the main.

And here's my first 60 for PlanesRector Fit:

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Phyrexian Tower

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Lingering Souls
4 Arena Rector

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Mirri's Guile
1 Sylvan Library
3 Evolutionary Leap

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge

1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Gideon of the Trials

Ugin beats fair decks and Elves!, Elspeth beats Eldrazi & Sneak & Show, Gideon beats fast combo. Whipe the board/lock them out and chain the other planeswalkers together to close out the game quickly.

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Originally Posted by Claymore

I think you're almost obligated to build:

4 Academy Rector
4 Arena Rector
2 Eureka

8 Nic Fit
4 Thoughtseize
4 GSZ/Flex

22-24 Lands

10-12 Kill Cards (Walkers, Enchantment Bombs, Pernicious Deed)

Too bad Eureka is $500...

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Eureka, doubling season, walkers......yep. magical Christmas land in my pan....I mean deck. Also, been a while.


Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

So... Pros and cons for both Rector variants.

Academy Rector/Nyx Fit

Pros:
- Completely shuts down strategies both during your own turn and your opponents
- Lockpieces can't be destroyed via combat

Cons:
- Doesn't necessarily answer an existing board presence
- Sometimes needs 2 lockpieces to completely shut down the opponent

Arena Rector/PlanesRector Fit

Pros:
- Immediately impacts an existing board presence
- Closes games out more quickly

Cons:
- Your opponent can still play Magic
- Is vulnerable during your opponents turn (or your end step)

Any other thoughts, anyone?

Just why does elspeth beat sneak & show?
With ominiscience, he will play the extra turn, attack elspeth if you have enough permanents to keep elspeth in play and still have a 15/15 spaghetti monster.

Also would a mix of Ac-rector + Ar-rector + Gamekeeper be a consideration?
What would be the targets? :)

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Originally Posted by Tylert

Just why does elspeth beat sneak & show?
With ominiscience, he will play the extra turn, attack elspeth if you have enough permanents to keep elspeth in play and still have a 15/15 spaghetti monster.

Also would a mix of Ac-rector + Ar-rector + Gamekeeper be a consideration?
What would be the targets? :)

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Sneak & Show comes in 2 flavors. OmniShow tends to go for Release the Ants if they know what they're doing so you're dead either way. Sneak & Show goes for the big creatures. You're probably still dead to Sneak Attack, but can survive Show and Tell.

All-the-Rectors just becomes a clunky mess. Too many high cost cards and too many cards that do nothing once you have them in your hand. You want to run as few high mana cards as possible to deal with as much of the meta as possible.