[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

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Originally Posted by raudo

Recall went mental

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Unrestricted in swedish 93/94

Soooooo ... foil Mox Diamond jumped from 120€ to 500$ overnight thanks to a buyout of less than a dozen on TCG it seems. Ridiculous.

I guess I will put aside ~16 grand and buy up all LEDs this weekend, just to show how stupid easy to manipulate the current market it. Will be fun to see how everyone reacts if a RL card without promos is suddenly on shortage and priced like Unlimited Moxen. You have 2 days. Enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

I guess I will put aside ~16 grand and buy up all LEDs this weekend, just to show how stupid easy to manipulate the current market it. Will be fun to see how everyone reacts if a RL card without promos is suddenly on shortage and priced like Unlimited Moxen. You have 2 days. Enjoy.

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This kind of already happened. Remember this?
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...t-Buyouts.html

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Originally Posted by ESG

This kind of already happened. Remember this?
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...t-Buyouts.html

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Wasn't effective. Mox Diamond and Cradle just show with how little copies/investment one can flip the market price upside down. LED is far too reasonable still for the current price spiral. Yet.

Price is not a trivially simple value. Most ways people estimate price are limited, in one way or another.

It is apparent what is happening. A person decides to purchase all of the reasonably affordable copies of an old card that has some play-ability and limited number of copies readily available. The metric that people latch on to is saying that the price is now determined by a very small number of inappropriately priced remaining copies for sale.

The metric is pretty flawed. I cant exchange the copies in my personal collection for cash using the prices it calculates once a buyout event unfolds. The metric is good for cards currently or recently in print, as there is generally a large supply and movements are based on tournament performance. For old reserved list cards, the value it reports as a price around the time of a buyout is very misleading. I wouldn't ever act as if there is real money backing that price.

So, boiled down, people are upset/happy that a bad metric is saying the price of cards is swinging wildly. Sure, it gives us something to discuss, but that is about it. The metric isn't the price, it would benefit our group to stop acting as if it is. There are price movements that are backed by reality, such as the increases related to the developing interest in 93/94 and pauper. These are just my opinions.

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Originally Posted by ramanujan

Price is not a trivially simple value. Most ways people estimate price are limited, in one way or another.

It is apparent what is happening. A person decides to purchase all of the reasonably affordable copies of an old card that has some play-ability and limited number of copies readily available. The metric that people latch on to is saying that the price is now determined by a very small number of inappropriately priced remaining copies for sale.

The metric is pretty flawed. I cant exchange the copies in my personal collection for cash using the prices it calculates once a buyout event unfolds. The metric is good for cards currently or recently in print, as there is generally a large supply and movements are based on tournament performance. For old reserved list cards, the value it reports as a price around the time of a buyout is very misleading. I wouldn't ever act as if there is real money backing that price.

So, boiled down, people are upset/happy that a bad metric is saying the price of cards is swinging wildly. Sure, it gives us something to discuss, but that is about it. The metric isn't the price, it would benefit our group to stop acting as if it is. There are price movements that are backed by reality, such as the increases related to the developing interest in 93/94 and pauper. These are just my opinions.

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i do see lots of suckers on the facebook groups selling and others are buying into the hype though. i also see a lot of cards disappearing from MKM. still going even at the higher prices which normally sit there for quite some time once these buyouts start.

Why people prefer ugly looking ftv mox diamond instead of original? I dont get it.

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Originally Posted by raudo

Why people prefer ugly looking ftv mox diamond instead of original? I dont get it.

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Because it sparkles and people are dumb and equate that to special. I've always hated foil cards - they don't prove a card is hard to get and/or their own dedication, they just prove gullibility. They show that a person has quite literally bought into the idea that an item of lesser quality is better because "ooOoo shiny" and because the people at WotC have told them that scarcity should equate to desirability. This was a game intended for young adults and older - then WotC decided to market it to children. Somehow there are people who don't realize that shiny cards aren't anything other than a marketing ploy.

not going to stick up for foils, but i'm pretty sure it wasn't wotc who came up with the idea of supply/demand, or even rarity/value. i remember sports cards having foil versions long before magic cards. (not that this was super innovative for their time either, but just pointing it out)

don't forget to drink your ovaltine!

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

not going to stick up for foils, but i'm pretty sure it wasn't wotc who came up with the idea of supply/demand, or even rarity/value. i remember sports cards having foil versions long before magic cards. (not that this was super innovative for their time either, but just pointing it out)

don't forget to drink your ovaltine!

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I wasn't claiming WotC did some genius thing, just that people are dumb and easy to convince to buy something which is genuinely less quality than the other.

That's very easy to prove with any number of things.

Eg. Trump, Applebee's, etc...

Now AN Serendibs are spiking.

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Originally Posted by Teluin

I wasn't claiming WotC did some genius thing, just that people are dumb and easy to convince to buy something which is genuinely less quality than the other.

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You are missing all the positive things that foils do for you, a non foil player. Foils make more rarities, it's not just C, U, R, M it's those with foil versions, C, CF, U, UF, R, RF, M, MF. All that matters is that someone wants them and is willing to pay for them, the lotto ticket nature of them adds value to boosters and boxes, for players and stores, while making the non foil versions cheaper over all. PR promos and other printings add to this as well, to help suppress parts of the market.

If you remove foils and promos from the products, all cards suddenly get more expensive.

of course it's marketing, but humans like different aesthetics, if they didn't there would only be black sleeves, and blank play mats, but look there is a whole rainbow of colours and images to choose from. People like foils not just cause they are harder to get, or are a cheaper quality, people like to differentiate themselves and their possessions in different ways.

Card art is irrelevant to how the game works on any level, but do you think magic would be great if all cards were just text based?

Card art is vital to how the game works on a fundamental level. If you force something I'm not looking at the title to id the card, I'm looking at the art. Art makes for quick identification of cards and a smoother game play. In fact for most of Legacy I feel you could play the game with just the cards art without any text or Mana cost and most of the experienced players would have no issue.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Card art is vital to how the game works on a fundamental level. If you force something I'm not looking at the title to id the card, I'm looking at the art. Art makes for quick identification of cards and a smoother game play. In fact for most of Legacy I feel you could play the game with just the cards art without any text or Mana cost and most of the experienced players would have no issue.

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While I get your meaning, the opposite is actually true. A card's art is superfluous, proven by the fact cards have multiple arts. Meanwhile they all have the same text.

That is also untrue. Wrath of God has a ton of different text and Lightning Bolt now has the ability to do something it was never able to on printing.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

That is also untrue. Wrath of God has a ton of different text and Lightning Bolt now has the ability to do something it was never able to on printing.

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It is true if you read what I wrote honestly instead of picking nits. :tongue:

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

That is also untrue. Wrath of God has a ton of different text and Lightning Bolt now has the ability to do something it was never able to on printing.

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Actually bolt always said one target. We just added a target;)

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Card art is vital to how the game works on a fundamental level. If you force something I'm not looking at the title to id the card, I'm looking at the art. Art makes for quick identification of cards and a smoother game play. In fact for most of Legacy I feel you could play the game with just the cards art without any text or Mana cost and most of the experienced players would have no issue.

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Card art is very important for a whole host of reasons and the game would be wayyyyy shittier without it for a bunch of reasons, but it's not important from a game mechanics perspective. You can play the game just fine without art, it is just less enjoyable and smooth, but the game doesnt' need art to function or play. The distinction is small but important.

Thing is text does change. Just not often.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...3641&type=card

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Art makes for quick identification of cards and a smoother game play. In fact for most of Legacy I feel you could play the game with just the cards art without any text or Mana cost and most of the experienced players would have no issue.

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The number of judge calls I have received courtesy of all-foreign decks at competitive-REL events suggests otherwise :tongue:

I agree with the art thing. Sometimes I do need clarification on odd interaction with opposing foreign stuff, but generally it's fine. Invocations do slow me down though because they all look the same and I need to attempt to decipher the stupid font they chose to figure out what is being cast against me, but maybe it's just inexperience in not seeing those eye sores enough. But since they are so rare I probably won't ever see them that much. What I'm trying to say is that invocations are aids in cardboard form

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I agree with the art thing. Sometimes I do need clarification on odd interaction with opposing foreign stuff, but generally it's fine. Invocations do slow me down though because they all look the same and I need to attempt to decipher the stupid font they chose to figure out what is being cast against me, but maybe it's just inexperience in not seeing those eye sores enough. But since they are so rare I probably won't ever see them that much. What I'm trying to say is that invocations are aids in cardboard form

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what really pisses me about art/border change is that the ease of recognition was one of the arguments for initial frame change... then we get art changes for no other than financial reasons than infinite boarder changes for sake of doesntmatteranymore easy short/mid term marketing

Mox Diamond being bought out again.

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Originally Posted by ParkerLewis

Mox Diamond being bought out again.

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Are these worth more than real diamonds yet?

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Originally Posted by Zllig

Are these worth more than real diamonds yet?

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They are, because you didn't mention karat

Nether Voids are disappearing everywhere

I'm getting back into the game and I've been putting together a couple decks. Prices are pretty bad, as most of you are aware. I made a spreadsheet a couple years ago of all staples and playables of the format to be my future buylist or goal of cards I wanted to acquire and posted it here. Anyway, I just found it and thought it was hilarious how some the prices have changed in a span of just over two years. Some are good from reprints but damn some have spiked. List.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Soooooo ... foil Mox Diamond jumped from 120€ to 500$ overnight thanks to a buyout of less than a dozen on TCG it seems. Ridiculous.

I guess I will put aside ~16 grand and buy up all LEDs this weekend, just to show how stupid easy to manipulate the current market it. Will be fun to see how everyone reacts if a RL card without promos is suddenly on shortage and priced like Unlimited Moxen. You have 2 days. Enjoy.

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Glad I picked up a Jet on Wednesday! [emoji26]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Abyss buyout is over. I saw about 30 listed from one seller over the last 3 days. I reported to mkm in case they want to try to manage some of this behavior.

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Originally Posted by Jak

I'm getting back into the game and I've been putting together a couple decks. Prices are pretty bad, as most of you are aware. I made a spreadsheet a couple years ago of all staples and playables of the format to be my future buylist or goal of cards I wanted to acquire and posted it here. Anyway, I just found it and thought it was hilarious how some the prices have changed in a span of just over two years. Some are good from reprints but damn some have spiked. List.

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Welcome back!

Also, Bone Flute made the spreadsheet?

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Originally Posted by ESG

Welcome back!

Also, Bone Flute made the spreadsheet?

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Thank you, ESG!

Haha I have no idea why it would be there. I haven’t updated it in a long time. I had started adding whatever random stuff I saw from mtgtop8 and threads here, so it had to of showed up somewhere. Or I got trolled.

Man, with the way prices are rising recently I'm half-tempted to just sell my entire collection. I think I'd make something like a 200% profit on what I paid for my collection if I just dumped it all onto an online buylist... But I'm scared I'd be missing out on even more if I get rid of it now.

Turns out buying all those Kaladesh/Zendikar Masterpieces/Expeditions when they first came out wasn't a bad idea.

I am very interested how this buyoutmadness is gonna end. I think there are alot of different peolpe trying to make money of the RL. Different people choosing different cards, I mean basically every card on the RL is spiking. Playabillity is only a marginal factor. Sure looks like a buble to me cause current the self fullfilling prophecy works: "Buy cards on the RL and you are sure to make money cause they are rising"

The mantra of "don't worry the RL cards are gold" is very similar to a lot of other precrash markets. Wonder why that is? :eyebrow:

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Originally Posted by MorphBerlin

I am very interested how this buyoutmadness is gonna end... Sure looks like a bauble to me

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Hah! A bauble... I like that. :tongue:

Two months ago I was officially priced out of my goal of collecting a single copy of non-power from the earliest sets. So I've mentally come to terms with selling that part of my collection. I'm currently joining every Facebook group I can that acts as a marketplace for these cards.

I'm now dancing on the razors edge of 'waiting for the value to increase' and 'selling before others like me are similarly priced out'.


I don't think the buyout madness will end in a burst bubble... I suspect prices will continue to rise until the audience that is interested in such items shrinks and makes it difficult to turn cardboard into cash in a reliably quick and easy manner. At that time it becomes a poorer 'investment' and prices will somewhat stabilize and possibly contract. There's gotta be a point where someone who bought out Gwendlyn Di Corci realizes they'll never sell their 50 copies for $150 each...

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Hah! A bauble... I like that. :tongue:

Two months ago I was officially priced out of my goal of collecting a single copy of non-power from the earliest sets. So I've mentally come to terms with selling that part of my collection. I'm currently joining every Facebook group I can that acts as a marketplace for these cards.

I'm now dancing on the razors edge of 'waiting for the value to increase' and 'selling before others like me are similarly priced out'.


I don't think the buyout madness will end in a burst bubble... I suspect prices will continue to rise until the audience that is interested in such items shrinks and makes it difficult to turn cardboard into cash in a reliably quick and easy manner. At that time it becomes a poorer 'investment' and prices will somewhat stabilize and possibly contract. There's gotta be a point where someone who bought out Gwendlyn Di Corci realizes they'll never sell their 50 copies for $150 each...

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Once upon a time I was trying to get playsets of every thing and I started with the oldest sets. I never did get all the way through Arabian Nights though, but I got close, because I never did manage to focus on just the one. So, now I have stupid things like three Libraries and other junk like three Nether Voids, which are stupidly expensive now. Thing is, while my plan will never come to fruition, I don't have any real incentive to sell. My job pays my bills, so, why sell now?

Even if the bubble bursts, I don't care, because I never bought them to make money, I bought them to play Magic.

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Originally Posted by H

Once upon a time I was trying to get playsets of every thing and I started with the oldest sets. I never did get all the way through Arabian Nights though, but I got close, because I never did manage to focus on just the one. So, now I have stupid things like three Libraries and other junk like three Nether Voids, which are stupidly expensive now. Thing is, while my plan will never come to fruition, I don't have any real incentive to sell. My job pays my bills, so, why sell now?

Even if the bubble bursts, I don't care, because I never bought them to make money, I bought them to play Magic.

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Still, if you miss out on an opportunity to maximize your return on these cards you missed out on a lot of extra cash. Sure, you have a job to pay your bills but missing out on thousands of dollars still sucks.

you can dump the 2 other libraries to finish playsets of other old cards. :)

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Originally Posted by H

Once upon a time I was trying to get playsets of every thing and I started with the oldest sets. I never did get all the way through Arabian Nights though, but I got close, because I never did manage to focus on just the one.

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Buy a booster box of Arabian Nights.

The Beauty of these old expansion sets is that EVERY Rare is in EVERY booster box ONCE. Back then you bought 4 boxes and had your playsets of every Rare.