[DTB] Blade Control

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HSCK

I think Sphere is pretty bad, but I do like Red because Pyroblast and Moon are so important right now.

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Lightning Bolt is pretty decent as removal #5 that can also go to the face when creature removal is not needed, I wouldn't necessarily call it bad removal.

Other options red gives you include Wear/Tear (which I find generally a little better than Disenchant), Pyroclasm and Sudden Demise.

Mostly Im preferring red right now for the Pyroblasts. With Omnitell the premiere combo deck that is also pretty easy for folks to pick up (as opposed to say ANT), Miracles still the premiere control deck, and with Grixis and BUG big threats (basically, with Dig Through Time decks being all-dominant), Pyroblast is stronger than ever in Legacy.

IMO, the big question shouldn't be do you play Pyroblast, it should be do you play any maindeck (which I think is a meta call; I'd play at least one in any large tournament)?

I am currently preparing for some upcoming legacy events and am considering an Esper Stoneblade / Deathblade variant. I want to try a Bitterblossom / Stoneforge package for improving mainly my miracles matchup and maximizing the effect of the equipment in the deck while still maintaining a high spell count to be able to combat the unfair share of the meta.

Currently I work within a basic frame of:

20 lands

2 pieces of equipment (1 Batterskull, 1 Jitte)
7 removal spells
10 counterspells / discard
7-8 cantrips (4 Brainstorm, 3-4 Ponder)
2 Dig through Time

= 28 spells which leaves approx. 12 creature slots

Could you give me some advice how the rest of the creature spells should be chosen?

Thank you in advance,
Philip

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThE_jOkEr

I am currently preparing for some upcoming legacy events and am considering an Esper Stoneblade / Deathblade variant. I want to try a Bitterblossom / Stoneforge package for improving mainly my miracles matchup and maximizing the effect of the equipment in the deck while still maintaining a high spell count to be able to combat the unfair share of the meta.

Currently I work within a basic frame of:

20 lands

2 pieces of equipment (1 Batterskull, 1 Jitte)
7 removal spells
10 counterspells / discard
7-8 cantrips (4 Brainstorm, 3-4 Ponder)
2 Dig through Time

= 28 spells which leaves approx. 12 creature slots

Could you give me some advice how the rest of the creature spells should be chosen?

Thank you in advance,
Philip

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I am so your man!!!!! I have a custom hybrid that I developed years ago then, when I got back in I put this together with the upgrades available. I have had a lot of positive results testing, but I have seen I am weak against Mono Red. Other than that I have strong match ups against Miracles, Infect, "Fair decks delver/deathblade/etc...", and the rest in peace/tutor package helps against lands.

Lands (22)
4 Flooded Strand [ONS]
1 Island [DDH]
1 Karakas [LEG]
1 Marsh Flats [ZEN]
4 Mutavault [MOR]
1 Plains [DDH]
3 Polluted Delta [ONS]
1 Scrubland [3ED]
3 Tundra [3ED]
3 Underground Sea [3ED]


Creatures (9)
3 Spellstutter Sprite [LRW]
3 Stoneforge Mystic [WWK]
3 True-Name Nemesis [C13]


Other Spells (29)
1 Batterskull [NPH]
3 Bitterblossom [MOR]
4 Brainstorm [5ED]
2 Enlightened Tutor [6ED]
4 Force of Will [ALL]
2 Myth Realized [DTK]
3 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce [ZEN]
3 Standstill [ODY]
4 Swords to Plowshares [DDF]
1 Umezawa's Jitte [BOK]


Sideboard (15)
1 Chill [TMP]
2 Containment Priest [C14]
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant [MD1]
1 Enlightened Tutor [6ED]
2 Ethersworn Canonist [ALA]
2 Flusterstorm [CMD]
1 Humility [TMP]
2 Rest in Peace [RTR]
1 Vendilion Clique [MOR]
2 Zealous Persecution [ARB]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThE_jOkEr

I am currently preparing for some upcoming legacy events and am considering an Esper Stoneblade / Deathblade variant. I want to try a Bitterblossom / Stoneforge package for improving mainly my miracles matchup and maximizing the effect of the equipment in the deck while still maintaining a high spell count to be able to combat the unfair share of the meta.

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FWIW I think Bitterblossom is generally too slow and outclassed by Lingering Souls.

I'm having a hard time with my mana base. Half of the time I flood and the other half I get screwed. I have already dropped the basic swamp that has been a real troublesome inclusion, but it didn't matter. Here is my mana - base for reference:

21
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Scrubland
2 USea
3 Tundra
2 Flats
3 Delta
4 Strand
2 Wasteland

The deck is 61 cards, 61st card is A single Ponder. I have no room for more. List or one almost the same just a page or two back if you want reference to the full list.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

I would suggest altering your deck to run 4 copies of Ponder along with 20-22 lands. Ponder will help you find what you need, when you need it, and is arguably much more powerful than running multiple copies of 'business' spells. Ponder does a lot to help make land drops on time and avoid flooding as well.

21 lands is where I'm at, so I'd saying that's correct, I have no room for the Ponders. Go back two pages and check out the list, there simply is no room. I was thinking that maybe my numbers needed altered between basix/fetches/duals. I love the wastelands, they are strong, at least in my meta.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

2 SCM
4 SFM
2 TNN
3 Mentor

1 BSkull
1 Jitte

3 StP
2 JCouncil
1 SVerdict
1 Jace

3 DTT
4 Brainstorm
3 Probe

3 CTherapy
1 TSeize
2 Pierce
4 FoW

1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Scrubland
2 USea
2 Tundra
1 Marsh Flats
4 Strand
4 Delta
2 Wasteland

Here are my suggestions:
-1 TNN
-1 DTT
-1 CJudgment
+3 Ponder

You have plenty of board control, you don't really need to have a 2nd TNN. DTT is difficult to cast multiple times, especially in the early game. You have Snapcaster Mage to flashback CJudgment if you find yourself needing to cast it more than once in a game.

Ponder does the following:
-fuels DTT
-activates Mentor
-finds lands, counterspells, discard, removal, threats, etc.
-also helps avoid drawing into multiple copies of the aforementioned cards when you don't need them.
-increases the reliability of your sideboard cards by helping to find them earlier and more consistently

If I were playing Esper Blade, I would also strongly consider finding room to play Deathrite Shaman. That card is sooooo good, and a justification for dipping into Black in the first place. I personally don't feel that discard alone is enough to justify running Black as your tertiary color instead of Red, but DRS is arguably worth it.

To do that, I would consider the following further changes:
-1 Land (probably a fetch or basic Island)
-2 S. Pierce
-1 TSieze
+4 DRS

This way you become an even stronger Midrange deck. Then I would put a few more anti-Combo cards in your sideboard to help mitigate the loss of the Spell Pierce and TSieze.

Just my personal opinion, feel free to play the deck however you want.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

21 lands is where I'm at, so I'd saying that's correct, I have no room for the Ponders. Go back two pages and check out the list, there simply is no room. I was thinking that maybe my numbers needed altered between basix/fetches/duals. I love the wastelands, they are strong, at least in my meta.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

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IMO, 21 lands is reasonable only if you're playing at least 2 Ponders.

Note: -1 Stoneforge, +1 Ponder to the above list before my testing explained below.

After some testing, I found that imo Dark Confidant is better here than Shaman. Here's what I tested as far as changes go to the current list, although the slots I chose to use was the stoneforge package, making this the incorrect thread to post in.

-2 SFM
-2 equipment
-2 TNN

+4 Dark Confidant
+2 SDT

I also tested this next configuration removing the same 6 cards:

+4 DRS
+1 Daze/Ponder (just depends on your style, I prefer the daze, as it's less durdling)
+1 Spell Snare (counterspell would be fine here also)

These changes are both plausible. That said, I prefer not dropping Mentor so early, as even though I felt when I first started playing the list that would be best, after a lot of testing and a 5 round tournament with a cut to top 8, I found that generally controlling the early game is often the correct line of play. This is where discard is most potent, as are soft counters and FoW. The reason I like Confidant better is because he helps fuel this plan moreso than DRS, and DRS opens the deck up to graveyard hate like leyline/RIP, even more than just DTT.



From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

Can someone help create a red splash sideboard guide for me an other newer players?

I will list some things and what I think could be appropriate to use them in, but I need help siding things in and out.


Pyroblasts/REB for omnitell
Flusterstorm for storm
Wear / tear for Death and Taxes or miracles
Blood moon for delver or mud
Grafdigger's Cage/containment Priest for dredge or reanimator
Ethersworm canonist for storm or omnitell
Pithing needle for Death and Taxes or miracles
Meddling mage for storm or combo
Rest in piece for dredge, reanimator, or delve cards.
Sword of feast and famine for elves or other creature decks.
Chill for punishing fire or burn.

Thanks,
Please let me know of anything I missed or potential cards

Yeah, looks like you just did. If you want an actual sideboard, post a list, and other than forgetting Vendilion Clique and Containment Priest, both of which are better/more relevant than Canonist or Meddling Mage, you did a pretty okay job. Oh, but Sword of Feast and Famine is generally for the combo matchups, as the discard effect is solid and it allows you to play out your hand as normal while still having mana open for permission spells during their turn.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

So my list that I am working with right now is as follows

MB
4 strand
3 delta
2 mesa
3 tundra
2 volcanic
2 island
2 plains
1 mountain
1 karakas

1 venser, shaper savant
1 vendilion clique
1 snapcaster
2 true-name
4 stoneforge

4 force
4 swords
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
2 bolt
2 spell snare
2 spell pierce
2 counterspell
2 dig
1 batterskull
1 jitte
1 jace
1 council's judgement
1 supreme verdict

SB
1 canonist
1 wear / tear
1 blood moon
1 pithing needle
1 containment priest
1 meddling mage
1 grafdigger's cage
1 flusterstorm
1 Elspeth, knight errant
1 sword of feast and famine
2 rest in piece
3 red elemental blast

This is for an unknown meta at the moment. I have debated Elspeth in the main over a bolt. If that happens, I can add some burn hate like Chill

This feels like bad UWr Delver. You also missed Sulfur Elemental in your sideboard guide, and to a lesser extent, there's Izzet Staticaster, both are strong against mentor, Staticaster is good against that as well as YP, Bitterblossom, Bob, Snappy, Clique, and etc. Lose the Venser, at 20 lands, playing him to any real effect is...unlikely. also, it's Rest In Peace, not Piece. Sorry, but it's been driving me nuts. Drop the Mage and Canonist for 2x more Clique in the board for the Miracles, SFM mirror, and combo (all) matchups, they outperform the others by a good margin. Sword of Feast and Famine is too slow these days with 16 cantrip, mono-colored A+B combo decks everywhere that if I were you, I would just drop it and instead play another Blood Moon, or a singleton Engineered Explosives/Echoing Truth/Sulfur Elemental for Mentor. If Miracles 2.0 is a thing in your area I suggest the Elemental as it is an ongoing effect that they have to deal with to win.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

Thank you for your thoughts.

Sorry about the RIP error. The speech to text on my phone and I must have missed it. I have venser for omni matches specifically, but as I haven't played much with this deck in my meta, which has elves, death and taxes, mentor miracles, and some jund and burn. I suppose I will at least take out venser to add something. And thanks for sulfur elemental and izzet staticaster - never thought of those. You recommend to drop the Mage and canonist for 2 more clique. By this, so i can understand, you mean take out snapcaster, venser, and canonist in total to add different cards. Would it be worth 3 total cliques in main in your opinion? I would then have an open spot for izzet staticasternever in the board. How is this a bad or poor delver list and how can I improve that?

About my "feels like bad Delver" statement, I mean playing red in this kind of deck just feels like that, it's not something that you are doing wrong, just how red in Stoneblade feels to me and is why I don't play it.

I understand wanting to play Venser against Omni, and it probably works once in a while, but I think more often than not it's
Either pitched to force, put back with brainstorm, or is dead in hand thanks to only 20 land.

Do you really have good success with 2x Spell Snare? I can't bring myself to even play one. It just feels bad to me. Also, In my opinion I think 2x bolt isn't worth it. 3x is as low as I would go, otherwise I feel like it's wasting slots that could do more.

I would drop Venser for another Snapcaster Mage and I would drop the Meddling Mage and Ethersworn Canonist out of the 75 and use those 2 sideboard slots for 1 Clique and 1 Sulfur Elemental. If you want a 3rd Clique, drop the sword of Feast and Famine out of the 75 and add a 3rd. Don't play more than 1 Clique main.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

Alright. I understand where you are coming from. I am thinking of staticaster in place of sulfur elemental. It depends on if I am facing elves a lot or not. As far as snare goes, I find it really useful in some games and not others. They may change to something else. I am trying to make this more aggressive, so if I cut the snare, I can finish the set of bolts. I haven't seen the additional clique in many sides, but I will give that a try for mirror, miracles, and storm(are those the ideal matches?) What are thoughts on counterspell? If I go more for an attrition, I think counterspell shines more, but then spell peirce losses a bit. Yet, in an aggressive build, peirce and snare shine a little more than counterspell. In any case, should I keep the main judgement is that too slow?

I would cut a snare and a counterspell for 2x more bolts. Alternatively, playing 3 bolts and upping Pierce to 3 is an option as well.

I love CJudgement in the main. So much in fact, that I play 2x. I'd leave it.

If elves is a concern as well, perhaps instead of Elemental or Staticaster, just good ol' Pyroclasm could be the way to go.

Yes on the Clique for the matchups you said. Clique is also really good against Show and Tell lists. Playing Clique in response to S&T and taking their Omni/Emmy so they have nothing but a land (or nothing) to play off it is really fun, and essentially counters the S&T. Taking care of both the a and the b part of a+b combo with one card is really good, especially when it is a clock, too.

EDIT: This is to say that on my testing with Bob, further testing has revealed that dropping DTT #3 for SDT #3 is a solid decision. Flipping 8 is not a good feeling, especially when following a flipped FoW.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

My current esper list
1 snapcaster mage
1 vendilion clique
1 tasigur, the Golden fang
1 true name nemesis
4 stoneforge mystic

1 supreme verdict
1 engineered explosives
1 counterspell
1 councils judgement
1 batterskull
1 Umezawas was jitte
2 Jace the mind sculptor
2 lingering souls
2 ponder
2 dig through time
4 Swords to plowshares
4 brainstorm
4 thoughtseize
4 force of will

4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
1 Marsh flats
3 tundra
2 underground sea
1 scrubland
2 island
1 plains
1 swamp
1 creeping tar pit
1 Academy ruins
1 karakas

SB
2 meddling mage
2 rest in peace
1 containment priest
1 cabal therapy
1 spell pierce
1 perish
1 pitching needle
1 surgical extraction
1 supreme verdict
1 zealous persecution
1 sword of feast and famine
1 disenchant
1 notion thief


Thoughts, questions concerns? Been really happy with tasigur as well as true name souls split, kind of want to make room for a second snapcaster and not sure I'm totally happy with sb

Long-time miracles player here (my last posts in this thread were April '14 :rolleyes:). I played UWR blade briefly last year when it showed up in a somewhat unrefined form piloted by Shane Remelt, but I just picked it up again as I believe True-Name Nemesis, Rest in Peace, and Land Disruption are better in the meta than Miracles is.

I settled on this list in particular since it's one of the few that's playing MD Wastelands instead of SB Blood Moons -- UWR Blade Control. It went 1/283 in Japan and there are several videos of the pilot during the tournament: vs. RUG Delver; vs. Omni; vs. Storm. Sakamoto pilots it extremely well. There's a lot of plays I wouldn't usually make, but they end up working for him.

Sakamoto Ryosuke UWR Blade
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic

2 Pyroblast
2 Spell Pierce
3 Dig Through Time
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

1 Council's Judgment
4 Ponder

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Arid Mesa
1 Plains
1 Plateau (!)
2 Island
2 Wasteland
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard
2 Flusterstorm
1 Wear // Tear
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ajani Vengeant (!)
1 Containment Priest
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Pyroblast
2 Rest in Peace
1 Electrickery
3 Meddling Mage


I ended up switching:

• Plateau -> Mountain -- the 4th basic has been great, but I have noticed that WW is somewhat annoying to get for the Council's Judgement)
• Ajani Vengeant -> Nahiri, the Lithomancer -- I'm not really sure what Ajani does better than Elspeth, and I just wanted to play test Nahiri
• Electrickery -> Izzet Staticaster -- I don't own an Electrickery, although I can see how it may be better