[Deck] 12 Post

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Originally Posted by AppendixG

Has anyone tested Tower of the Magistrate as a Crop Rotatable way to deal with Batterskull and (to a lesser extent) other problematic equipment? Currently, I've added one to my sideboard that I trade out with Mikokoro.

I know that with Repeal, Batterskull isn't typically a huge problem but it never hurts to eke out every little advantage that you can.

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don't need it. also Maze of ith is just better.

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Originally Posted by winglerw28

I think saying that the decks being created being drastically different from the core strategy of the "Turbo Eldrazi" plan is reasonable. Minor changes like going from 12 to 9-10 posts has been pretty standard, but splashes haven't.

A derivative deck has to start somewhere, however. Are we supposed to make a "I'm not sure what this is but want feedback from people who have no experience with post" thread? I'm totally fine moving to a new thread if enough people want it, but I dislike people jumping on the bandwagon of deriding a modified list simply because it is different. Coming in and saying that these lists look like a joke could come off as hostile towards new people trying to look at the deck - "I think we should focus more on the core strategy we had before, we are likely trying to be too cute with what we are doing" is a lot more useful and constructive than the hidden message of "This is unacceptable and totally different than what I expected and looks really bad!".

The post strategy is all about inevitability, resilience, ramp, and giant monsters/planeswalkers. Some of the lists might be wonky, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily a fundamentally different strategy.

Edit: For clarity, this isn't targeted at you specifically, nor am I saying that you are being unreasonable or rude or anything. I just wanted to push the point that we should have more meaningful reasoning when trying to show why we don't agree with any given post.

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I agree with this. As far as thread goes, I think the best approach is to consider what is 'core', what are the 'threats', and what techniques/lines of play are best to get around those threats. For me the core of the deck is titan, eldrazi, and posts. All online, I first played the Top 8 Murata list, then the Mono-Green list and for the last 4-6 months have been testing the list I posted some pages back. Many people have debuted their own lists, which are all variable being influenced by individual playstyle and local meta's. However, I would say that despite this all lists are attempts to overcome a host of threats that are overall persistent, fairly constant and more or less unchanging. In other words the top threats that dominate the format are generally the same, and consequently are the most played. Delver, reanimator, omni, MUD, storm, are in my experience the most difficult. Why? I think the answer is ultra-fast combos, land destruction, and control. These are in sharp contrast to post which is generally a slow deck, heavily reliant on its lands, and has few threats that are fairly expensive. I would like to see this thread take the approach of identifying common threat themes and strategies/cards that work well against those themes. For instance in addition to 3x crop rotation, I play 4x stifles because it does land protection, can be used offensively, and has a variety of utilities (storm). Beginning a match my ideal starting hand would have a tropical/island with one or more land protection in hand, maybe a post or fow. After the draw, we can talk about surviving the next couple of turns against specific decks, and most importantly, weakpoints of the build and how to cover them.

I also get the impression that post is somewhat spread out, as if the core is too small, and not well fortified by multiple copies of support (1 cavern, 3x SNT). Thus 4 titans, 8-12 posts, 3 eldrazi and requisite green mana only accounts for a little over 1/3 of the deck. I do think that resolving titan is the surest path to victory.

Titan in hand, mana to play it, resolving it by turn 4 or having an impervious strategy to stay alive (against combo) until it does.

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Originally Posted by Ponders

I agree with this. As far as thread goes, I think the best approach is to consider what is 'core', what are the 'threats', and what techniques/lines of play are best to get around those threats. For me the core of the deck is titan, eldrazi, and posts. All online, I first played the Top 8 Murata list, then the Mono-Green list and for the last 4-6 months have been testing the list I posted some pages back. Many people have debuted their own lists, which are all variable being influenced by individual playstyle and local meta's. However, I would say that despite this all lists are attempts to overcome a host of threats that are overall persistent, fairly constant and more or less unchanging. In other words the top threats that dominate the format are generally the same, and consequently are the most played. Delver, reanimator, omni, MUD, storm, are in my experience the most difficult. Why? I think the answer is ultra-fast combos, land destruction, and control. These are in sharp contrast to post which is generally a slow deck, heavily reliant on its lands, and has few threats that are fairly expensive. I would like to see this thread take the approach of identifying common threat themes and strategies/cards that work well against those themes. For instance in addition to 3x crop rotation, I play 4x stifles because it does land protection, can be used offensively, and has a variety of utilities (storm). Beginning a match my ideal starting hand would have a tropical/island with one or more land protection in hand, maybe a post or fow. After the draw, we can talk about surviving the next couple of turns against specific decks, and most importantly, weakpoints of the build and how to cover them.

I also get the impression that post is somewhat spread out, as if the core is too small, and not well fortified by multiple copies of support (1 cavern, 3x SNT). Thus 4 titans, 8-12 posts, 3 eldrazi and requisite green mana only accounts for a little over 1/3 of the deck. I do think that resolving titan is the surest path to victory.

Titan in hand, mana to play it, resolving it by turn 4 or having an impervious strategy to stay alive (against combo) until it does.

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Well put. I agree with comments on the core of the deck.

I'm also about to try stifle! I think that's a pretty nifty addition no one would expect. The fact that it also hits wasteland is excellent too. I'm dreaming of hitting a craterhoof trigger.. What else do you target often?

Stifle sounds great! Countering Wasteland is great, but Stifle on Fetchland would be great as well, since most decks won't be able to sac a Wasteland in the next 2-3 turns after they have already lost a land... Second big target would be Planeswalker ultimates, especially Lilly :-D

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

Well put. I agree with comments on the core of the deck.

I'm also about to try stifle! I think that's a pretty nifty addition no one would expect. The fact that it also hits wasteland is excellent too. I'm dreaming of hitting a craterhoof trigger.. What else do you target often?

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Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster mage, Batterskull, wasteland, tendrils of agony, fetchlands, knight of the reliquary, aether vial, kuldotha forge master, narcomeoba, eldrazi triggers, grisselbrand, jin gitaxis, goblin lackey, helm of obedience, phyrexian dreadnaught.


so i guess if you are worried about ETB effects, storm, or gaining tempo against fetch land use its good. Also, if you are running trinket make and decide to include stifle, 1 of phyrexian dreadnought isn't bad for a 1 of inclusion.

after googling this someone suggested putting stifle on a scepter...not the worst idea i ever heard but probably not recommended for this deck.

****EDIT : Stifle hits miracle triggers too.

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Originally Posted by apple713

Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster mage, Batterskull, wasteland, tendrils of agony, fetchlands, knight of the reliquary, aether vial, kuldotha forge master, narcomeoba, eldrazi triggers, grisselbrand, jin gitaxis, goblin lackey, helm of obedience, phyrexian dreadnaught.

so i guess if you are worried about ETB effects, storm, or gaining tempo against fetch land use its good. Also, if you are running trinket make and decide to include stifle, 1 of phyrexian dreadnought isn't bad for a 1 of inclusion.

after googling this someone suggested putting stifle on a scepter...not the worst idea i ever heard but probably not recommended for this deck.

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Storm! You are absolutely wright! Great idea to have an out against storm main

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

Well put. I agree with comments on the core of the deck.

I'm also about to try stifle! I think that's a pretty nifty addition no one would expect. The fact that it also hits wasteland is excellent too. I'm dreaming of hitting a craterhoof trigger.. What else do you target often?

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Trickbind has been one of my pet cards for quite a while. While it does cost an additional mana, I find the fact that I can guarantee it will resolve to be a great boon. It can also be a one-shot surprise against Sneak and Skill players as you can keep them from using extra red mana to just activate again.

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Originally Posted by apple713

Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster mage, Batterskull, wasteland, tendrils of agony, fetchlands, knight of the reliquary, aether vial, kuldotha forge master, narcomeoba, eldrazi triggers, grisselbrand, jin gitaxis, goblin lackey, helm of obedience, phyrexian dreadnaught.

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You missed a few...Delver of Secrets, any miracle trigger, equip costs, etc. :-D At it's core, stifle is basically a tempo card which could be sufficient enough to buy time. Time is what 12post needs to win, so it might be worthwhile checking out. The surprise factor is also totally worth it!

One can assume that storm would have cabal therapy/duress/gitaxian probe'd you so they would have knowledge of the stifle. They should be able to play around it, however, its another hoop they have to jump through to achieve victory.

You haven't lived until you stifle a kuldotha forge master.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Probably the most "deep end" build I've brewed sofar. Here is Dragonpost:

// Lands
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
3 [FUT] Grove of the Burnwillows
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [BD] Island (2)
1 [R] Volcanic Island
1 [R] Taiga
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [TSP] Forest (1)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Punishing Fire
4 [OD] Moment's Peace
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [CNS] Dack Fayden
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [BNG] Kiora, the Crashing Wave
4 [NE] Accumulated Knowledge
2 [DOT] Sarkhan Unbroken
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 [SOK] Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
SB: 3 [UL] Crop Rotation


no dragons were involved or harmed in the building of this deck.

Plenty of tuning to happen here. Fow could easily be sb'd with crop and 1-2 utility lands main'd. That is probably the better build, but I am enjoying testing this preboarded version.

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Can you provide some guidelines as to your choices? it's been a while since I played thus seeing so many colored walkers is really new for me. If you're going so overboard with the walkers, Eureka might be an idea. I remember you playing SnT after all.

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

You missed a few... lion's Eye Diamond.

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People should get their shit together with this Stifling mana abilities thing. This is surprisingly common misconcept.

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

You missed a few...Delver of Secrets, any miracle trigger, equip costs, lion's Eye Diamond. :-D At it's core, stifle is basically a tempo card which could be sufficient enough to buy time. Time is what 12post needs to win, so it might be worthwhile checking out. The surprise factor is also totally worth it!

One can assume that storm would have cabal therapy/duress/gitaxian probe'd you so they would have knowledge of the stifle. They should be able to play around it, however, its another hoop they have to jump through to achieve victory.

You haven't lived until you stifle a kuldotha forge master.

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Format wide, there are a lot of things you can do with stifle and I see that most of the favorites have already been mentioned. I once hid a copy topdeck with sensei's against a storm player. Flickerwisp, Aven Mindcensor, are two that I didn't see mentioned, SDT is another.

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Originally Posted by apple713

Also, if you are running trinket make and decide to include stifle, 1 of phyrexian dreadnought isn't bad for a 1 of inclusion.

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I would advise against Dreadnought simply because it does not gain a lot other than just being a really big body. Generally the deck likes to play towards value creatures effects over just simply a beatstick (after all, we don't play Tarmogoyf even though he's in our colors and a simpler 2 drop). Kind of why we stick to doing things like this.

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Originally Posted by Ponders

Format wide, there are a lot of things you can do with stifle and I see that most of the favorites have already been mentioned. I once hid a copy topdeck with sensei's against a storm player. Flickerwisp, Aven Mindcensor, are two that I didn't see mentioned, SDT is another.

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theres nothing about aven mind censor that can be stifled. his ability is a replacement ability. when looking for things to stifle look for "when" or "whenever" or ":". Typically abilities that include "instead" would not be triggered abilities.

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Originally Posted by Ponders

Format wide, there are a lot of things you can do with stifle and I see that most of the favorites have already been mentioned. I once hid a copy topdeck with sensei's against a storm player. Flickerwisp, Aven Mindcensor, Mangara are two that I didn't see mentioned, SDT is another.

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I once stifled a mulligan. Guess who won that game.

If anybody has any experience with Stifle effects, it is Zotmaster. He has been trying them forever now, since even before Treasure Cruise. Watching him play them, I am not on board myself but cannot deny that they have been effective for him.

I am looking for feedback on the following build, as I've wanted to try Intuition for a very long time. Post runs many 3-ofs and can set up some powerful Intuition piles. If you have all three Eldrazi or Ugin you can just set up the "pick your poison" pile of three win conditions.

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// Creatures
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Trinket Mage

// Planeswalkers
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// Instants and Sorceries
4 Brainstorm
3 Repeal
3 Intuition
3 Show and Tell
3 Crop Rotation

// Artifacts
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Engineered Explosives

// Land
3 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
2 Vesuva
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Academy Ruins
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas

// Sideboard
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Force of Will
3 Swan Song
2 Flusterstorm
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

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Essentially a more conservative, back to the roots approach that still has some new technology in there. I am unsure if I'd rather Dragonlord Dromoka be Silumgar, the Drifting Death to kill True-Name Nemesis, Dark Confidant, and Young Pyromancer + tokens. Dromoka certainly is a better clock and I think closing the game out is stronger overall, but I'm not sure.

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Originally Posted by winglerw28

If anybody has any experience with Stifle effects, it is Zotmaster. He has been trying them forever now, since even before Treasure Cruise. Watching him play them, I am not on board myself but cannot deny that they have been effective for him.

I am looking for feedback on the following build, as I've wanted to try Intuition for a very long time. Post runs many 3-ofs and can set up some powerful Intuition piles. If you have all three Eldrazi or Ugin you can just set up the "pick your poison" pile of three win conditions.



Essentially a more conservative, back to the roots approach that still has some new technology in there. I am unsure if I'd rather Dragonlord Dromoka be Silumgar, the Drifting Death to kill True-Name Nemesis, Dark Confidant, and Young Pyromancer + tokens. Dromoka certainly is a better clock and I think closing the game out is stronger overall, but I'm not sure.

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I really like this take on intuition. Adding shuffle effects is a huge plus! With academy ruins, some artifact creatures might be more attractive to loop instead of dragons, I don't think they're powerful enough for the colors and CMC.

I'm stone set on MD FOW these days, and intuition might provide that extra control I'm looking for.. I may try it over ponder.

*adds shiney heaven of spirit dragon to cart*

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

I really like this take on intuition. Adding shuffle effects is a huge plus! With academy ruins, some artifact creatures might be more attractive to loop instead of dragons, I don't think they're powerful enough for the colors and CMC.

I'm stone set on MD FOW these days, and intuition might provide that extra control I'm looking for.. I may try it over ponder.

*adds shiney heaven of spirit dragon to cart*

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Another thing to consider (somewhat controversially) is that Primeval Titan may be somewhat overrated. If you can cut Primeval Titan for Explorations you can make the deck a much more proactive deck while not sacrificing the ability to play Force of Will due to lack of card spots.

Based on a conversation I've been having with Zot, removing Show and Titan makes room for Ancient Stirrings and Wurmcoil, which would fit the intuition build excellently as well.

Edit: I also just thought of something - cutting Prime Time could make our Intuitions better by giving us Titania for a pile of Ugin + Titania + Haven or Wurmcoil + Ruins + Titania.

Edit 2: Also, Crucible of Worlds seems strong as well. Exploration + Crucible + Chasm is niiice.

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Originally Posted by winglerw28

Another thing to consider (somewhat controversially) is that Primeval Titan may be somewhat overrated. If you can cut Primeval Titan for Explorations you can make the deck a much more proactive deck while not sacrificing the ability to play Force of Will due to lack of card spots.

Based on a conversation I've been having with Zot, removing Show and Titan makes room for Ancient Stirrings and Wurmcoil, which would fit the intuition build excellently as well.

Edit: I also just thought of something - cutting Prime Time could make our Intuitions better by giving us Titania for a pile of Ugin + Titania + Haven or Wurmcoil + Ruins + Titania.

Edit 2: Also, Crucible of Worlds seems strong as well. Exploration + Crucible + Chasm is niiice.

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I was about to talk about crucible too: if you plan to remove S&T and Titans in favor of Exploration, you should play a couple of crucibles because you could Intuition for posts and play them from the grave, essentially ramping like titan does.
You lose a big body, a win condition and a repeatable search effect in liu of a lower curve, a more versatile tutor and an insurance against LD decks.

The more I think about this the more I like the idea behind this build... Building upon these ideas, maybe I will try this:

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// Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Trinket Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

// Planeswalkers
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// Instants and Sorceries
4 Brainstorm
3 Repeal
3 Intuition
3 Force of Will
3 Crop Rotation
1 Dig Through Time

// Artifacts and Enchantments
4 Exploration
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pithing Needle
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds

// Land
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Vesuva
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Academy Ruins
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas

// Sideboard
1 Force of Will
3 Swan Song
2 Flusterstorm
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Karn Liberated
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ensnaring Bridge

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This build has resiliency, reach, inevitability, and combo protection. Arcane Laboratory or effects such as Thorn of Amethyst might be better in this build than some of the counterspells out of the board, but I didn't want to hedge so much against storm that there were no sideboard cards for Sneak and Show.