[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rizso

My board is:
2 Perish
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Mortarpod
1 Manriki-Gusari
3 Engineered Explosives

Got quite good matchup again blue decks (uw-blade, RUG-delver), dredge and about even even withmaverick (really depends on their board) but below 50% against burn, UR delver / burn, zoo as well with random decks elves, random combos.

---

Have you tested Extirpate versus Surgical Extraction? I like Surgical's casting cost when paired with Hymn to Torach and they're functionally pretty similar versus Snapcaster.dec, but versus Reanimator, Thopters and anything Loam based Split Second can be a gigantic difference in the power of the Lobotomy-effect.

Also do you find Relic of Progenitus to be needed as further graveyard hate with Surgical Extraction? Versus Dredge you have SFM -> Mortarpod and presumably some number of Liliana of the Veil to combat Reanimator.

What's the thought on the Engineered Explosives?

IMO mana cost is way more important then the split second.

Thoughts for engineered explosives are quite simple loads of 0-2 cc permanents are being played atm. Being able to sweep away 2x delvers for just 2 mana in a card is quite big as well able to play arround random counterbalances and chalice of the voids. Also it splashs into the dredge matchup where it blowsup zombie tokens.

Just 3 Surgical Extractions wont be winning the dredge matchup. Deck doesnt run brainstorm and snapcaster. Really never use Surgical for the Lobotomy-effect.

Most of the board cards splashs into diffrent matchups.

Joe Bernal is 4-0 with a lingering soul powered Deadguy in the legacy open atm.

I've just started testing this archetype again recently (having played around with it a bit around Zendikar) with the new tools offered in Liliana of the Veil, Lingering Souls and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad it seems like it's gained a lot of ground.

Locally lately my meta's been: GW Zenith, UW Blade decks, RDWs, little to no combo, so my list is tuned to that. I figured I would offer it out for feedback, anyway here's what I'm currently trying...

Land 22
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Fetid Heath
2 Swamp
1 Plains

Sorceries 13
4 Vindicate
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lingering Souls

Artifacts 8
3 Chrome Mox
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Creatures 7
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants 4
4 Swords to Plowshares

Planeswalkers 4
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Enchantments 2
2 Bitterblossom

Sideboard 15
3 Extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Perish
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Darkblast
1 Bitterblossom
1 Mortarpod
1 Nature's Ruin

Initially the Sword of Feast and Famine has felt like the loosest slot. I'm considering trying to fit a Sorin, Lord of Innistrad or Loxodon Warhammer in that slot. Having the Lifelink - provided by either - would be nice to support the combination of Thoughtseize, Dark Confidant and Bitterblossom. I'd consider Batterskull, but I feel like any time you go for it early, the SFM get's removed and it's stranded in hand for days, w/o counter/Mom protection it's hard to keep SFM on board if your opponent doesn't want it there. Loxodon Warhammer also appealed to me as a means of pushing tokens through stand offs to hit in at Planeswalkers. Looking at the Sideboard, perhaps 1 of the Perish effects would serve better as a cheaper removal spell maybe a Deathmark or Ghastly Demise. IDK, just some ideas I was looking for more input on.

Do think your list needs more Bitterblossoms, its one of the strongest cards in the deck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rizso

Do think your list needs more Bitterblossoms, its one of the strongest cards in the deck.

---

It's definitely very strong especially against UW Blade decks / control in general. I find it a tough card to always work with against agro.

My issue with going up on numbers of it is casting multiples is rarely desirable. I'm running somewhat heavy on pointed discard with the idea that all 7 of my discard spells can hit Spell Snare and 5 can hit Force of Will, so I can hopefully push Blossom onto the table reliably when I do get to them. I'm running the 3rd Bitterblossom to board in against control, along side Pithing Needles for Jace and Extirpate (over Plows and Chromes). I could try the 4th, but honestly the control matches, while grindy, feel pretty favored with the current threat density.

In my experience Bitterblossom can be a troublesome card to draw into in the midgame if you're in unfavorable board state as well. The fact that it takes that extra upkeep to start providing blockers can be all the difference - especially if they have a removal spell. So I've been trying the 2/2 split of it with Lingering Souls. Souls is great against Blade too, but it's immediacy can make it better against agro.

It might not be right, but that was the logic behind it anyway.

I have not tested your deck but in most cases, I like to run three Bitterblossoms. You are right about it being a what-to-do-with-it card to draw in midgame when you are behind in health or creatures or both. Maybe with Lingering Souls. 2 would just fine.

But why Chrome Mox and Sensei's Divining Top? I am more in favour of more removal or discards or maybe even creatures. Doom Traveler? Nighthawks?

Congratulations to Joe Bernal and Jeff Cosgrove for taking innovative BW and BWG builds into the Top 16 at Memphis today.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...0&city=Memphis

I can hardly believe that a card such as Zealous Persecution has turned out to be playable in Legacy, even in the best possible deck for it and with a lot of X/1's seeing play.

At any rate, much of this Top 16 seems unusual for today's Legacy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wert

I have not tested your deck but in most cases, I like to run three Bitterblossoms. You are right about it being a what-to-do-with-it card to draw in midgame when you are behind in health or creatures or both. Maybe with Lingering Souls. 2 would just fine.

---

Yea, as admitted, I'm not sure it's correct. Versus Blade Control I go up to 3, versus 39Lands, I'd go up to 3, etc. My meta has a fair amount of RDW where frankly Bitterblossom is outright bad, as 1 copy, as 3 copies, it's bad. I mean the 2 copies come out games 2-3 as well as the 2x Thoughtseize for the 2x Timely Reinforcements and 2x Leyline of Sanctity and a couple Extirpate over Confidants. It's not perfect, but I think Bitterblossom can be a large liability against any agro decks that are packing substantial removal - Zoo, RDWs, sometimes RUG Delver etc. And as we both acknowledged Lingering Souls is no slouch against control decks, especially with Cabal Therapies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wert

But why Chrome Mox and Sensei's Divining Top? I am more in favour of more removal or discards or maybe even creatures. Doom Traveler? Nighthawks?

---

Chrome Mox is there because my curve has 10 2 drops, 10 3 drops and 2 4 drops, with Sensei's Top, Lingering Souls, the Jitte and the 2 Swords tying up more mana than there CMCs. Admittedly the deck has a lot of turn 1 play @ 16, but the deck is piled with heavier casting cost 2+ for 1s - SFM, Dark Confidant, Bitterblossom, Lingering Souls, Elspeth and powering into any of those can negate the Chrome Mox investment. Accelerating into Planeswalkers, equipment, and token producers can be great.

For Discard effects I can't see going too much higher in density of them. Conventionally lists have 8 with 4 pointed and 4 Hymns. I run 7 with 3 having Flashback. I could run Hymn to Torach, I concede that I haven't tried it in a post-Dark Ascension list. Coming off of testing with Nic Fit I liked the power of Cabal Therapy in the current meta where Delver of Secrets and Stoneforge Mystic provide free information over blind shots.

Sensei's Divining Top is there to provide some midgame dig or advantage versus control. It being 1cc and non-creature makes it a more reliable form of card quality than say Dark Confidant, that Blade Control has Spell Snare and STP for; Maverick similarly can regularly invest it's Plows into Dark Confidant with my list only having 7 creatures and SDT dodges QPM or BUG/Nic Fit's Deeds. Most of the midrange opponents are running some form of non-creature dig: Sylvan Library, Brainstorm, or Jace, the Mind Sculptor; so I think having Sensei's Divining Top provides a similar way to mitigate late game draws.

I may be running 1 too many land cards in the list. In my testing 22 has felt appropriate, I've gotten stuck occasionally and flooded occasionally, but overall it's felt appropriate getting to 5 mana over the first 4-6 turns; which feels ideal for the list that allows Equipment + Equip; Lingering FB; Vindicate/Lili + anything 2cc; etc.

I guess if the question is the combination of the two- Chrome Mox providing acceleration at the cost of cards, and Sensei's Top providing card quaility at the cost of tempo and mana. They are somewhat antisynergistic, but by the same token they help versus different matches - Chrome Mox helps catches the deck up against fast decks - Zoo, Combo, Burn, etc - versus control they come out where there is no real pressure on board and grinding out is totally viable. I haven't boarded Top out yet, I think the card quality is valuable in any match up, but it shines more in the midrange and control matches, where the game develops more slowly and one can slow-roll and sink mana into it over time - with 9 fetches and 3 Stoneforge Mystic for a dozen shuffle effects.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DLifshitz

Congratulations to Joe Bernal and Jeff Cosgrove for taking innovative BW and BWG builds into the Top 16 at Memphis today.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...0&city=Memphis

I can hardly believe that a card such as Zealous Persecution has turned out to be playable in Legacy, even in the best possible deck for it and with a lot of X/1's seeing play.

At any rate, much of this Top 16 seems unusual for today's Legacy.

---

Interesting BW Decklist, I was wondering why no Sorin when he fits right into the deck like a glove with mana accel like Chrome Mox you can play him by turn 3, pressuring opponent with vamp tokens, or pumping them with his emblem. Anyway I like the Zealous Persecution in the MD, pumps our guys and kills opposing X/1 creatures and weaken many others, it maybe quite significant especially against a Gob deck (with no chieftain in play) going for an alpha strike or even agaist elf combo decks. The only problem now is what to remove for it since the deck is already tight as it is.

No Thoughtseize and IoK but only 4 Cabal Theraphy and 4 Hymn to Tourach, going for quantity versus quality? I currently work with 2 Thoughtseize, 4 Inquisition of Kozilek and 3 Cabal Theraphy, works quite well especially for a token build. First turn IoK/TS, next turn Cabal for something in his hand, next turn play Lingering Souls then flashback Cabal to get rid of other possible nuisances. Quite annoying since I can strip my opponents hand by turn 3 or 4, then the token swings FTW.

Another thing I notice is the lack of Vindicates in the MD or in the SB, although it is lackluster sometimes. I was considering to move mine in the SB since drawing into it can be quite annoying when all I can Vindicate is a land.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DLifshitz

Congratulations to Joe Bernal and Jeff Cosgrove for taking innovative BW and BWG builds into the Top 16 at Memphis today.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...0&city=Memphis

I can hardly believe that a card such as Zealous Persecution has turned out to be playable in Legacy, even in the best possible deck for it and with a lot of X/1's seeing play.

At any rate, much of this Top 16 seems unusual for today's Legacy.

---

The top 16 decklists aren't representative of larger tournaments. I cannot find an exact attendance number, but seeing as how GP Baltimore was being held the same day as this SCG Open, I think it is safe to say this was one of Starcity's smallest turnouts. Anyway, GO DEADGUY!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fetterfool

The top 16 decklists aren't representative of larger tournaments. I cannot find an exact attendance number, but seeing as how GP Baltimore was being held the same day as this SCG Open, I think it is safe to say this was one of Starcity's smallest turnouts. Anyway, GO DEADGUY!!

---

According to the entry here there were 94 players.
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7757

Now they may have lost players to the GP but that still seems a significant turnout. There were 153 for Charlotte and 234 for DC.

Event size/field aside, I think the most interesting piece this deck brings to the table is Zealous Persecution. It's an interesting way to get more value out of the token producers and works on a tighter curve than Elspeth or Sorin. The deck also dropped Vindicate, which I guess may be in part due to the addition of Persecution, giving one a different way to get value against creatures or pump tokens to knock out a Planeswalker. While it doesn't give the utility of potentially attacking mana, I suppose the lower curve allows one to get more value out of Wasteland since it becomes much less needed as a mana source. The 8 Flashback spells seem like a good way to pad the 3 Liliana, allowing the deck to hold back a Plow or Persecution in hand while ticking up and pitching off 'half' spells.

To me it seems like a well thought out and constructed list, a bit different from the lists most of the Source had been brewing, but worth exploring.

Updated my version to try out 4 Lingering souls, 4 Bitterblossom, only jitte and batterskull as maindecked equipments, 2 sorins 1 elspeth main & 1 in elspeth in the board. As well rearrange the discard suit a bit.

4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Liliana
4 Swords to plowshares

4 Bitterblossom
4 Lingering Souls
2 Soring Lord of Innistrad
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Board
1 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Perish
2 Path to Exile
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Mortarpod
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind

I like having extra spot removal in the SB, but lately I have started getting a little annoyed with Path and how bad it is at handling early creatures. I would like my removal to still cost 1 though, so the options are kinda limited.

Do you guys think that Ghastly Demise could work in this deck or is it just too unreliable having cards in the graveyard?

Also Tragic Slip crossed my mind for a brief instant seeing how it is both able to take care of early creatures and later ones for only one mana. Still it is probably way too clunky having to activate morbid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by esqulax

I like having extra spot removal in the SB, but lately I have started getting a little annoyed with Path and how bad it is at handling early creatures. I would like my removal to still cost 1 though, so the options are kinda limited.

---

I have had some luck with Darkblast. Kills unflipped Delvers, Lavamancers, Bob. And if played during upkeep can take down a two toughness creature. If Lingering Souls increases in popularity, the ability to recur Darkblast becomes even better I think too.

That said, I'm usually satisfied w/ 4 Plowshares and 2 Vindicates.

STP and Vindicates are the norm, other than those two cards I placed into the MD a couple of Zealous Persecution, wipes out several of mavericks creatures like, Mom, hierarch and Thalia, kills goblins with 1 toughness, as well as Vendillion Clique in UW Stoneblade and Spirit Tokens in Esper. It can also allow us to save our STP's for larger creatures like Goyf's and KotR. And synergizes really well with Diabolic Edict and Liliana's edict ability (avoids allowing your opponent to sac a lesser creature).

The +1/+1 is just gravy and can be useful for an all out alpha strike as well as clears the field of X/1 blockers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slikwilly

I have had some luck with Darkblast. Kills unflipped Delvers, Lavamancers, Bob. And if played during upkeep can take down a two toughness creature. If Lingering Souls increases in popularity, the ability to recur Darkblast becomes even better I think too.

That said, I'm usually satisfied w/ 4 Plowshares and 2 Vindicates.

---

Thought Dark Blast is quite bad against Lingering souls. It requires you to use dark blast 4 times to get rid of that 1 linger souls...

Replaced all my vindicates in the deck. Might put some in the board but in the main deck I much rather have some Liliana's.

Hi to all,

Need some deck improvement, here's my deck list;


5 Swamp
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
2 Plains
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Mother of Runes
4 Lingering Souls

4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshare
4 Vindicate

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

i used this deck but in a different build, small legacy event 2 win & 2 lost...

Win to Zenith Control and B/U Stoneblade

Lost to Hightide and R/U Delver

i need a effective sideboard?

any suggestions, Thanks!

Your average CMC is quite high. Maybe drop a Nighthawk and a Vindicate or two and add Cabal Therapy?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slikwilly

I have had some luck with Darkblast. Kills unflipped Delvers, Lavamancers, Bob. And if played during upkeep can take down a two toughness creature. If Lingering Souls increases in popularity, the ability to recur Darkblast becomes even better I think too.

That said, I'm usually satisfied w/ 4 Plowshares and 2 Vindicates.

---

Why not try Disfigure? -2/-2 is pretty good and takes out a lot of early threats.