Sorry I haven't posted in a while. I've been in training to be a summer camp couselor. What's the advantage to running Sakura-Tribe Elder over another Explorer? Without Meren I really don't see the benefit.
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Sorry I haven't posted in a while. I've been in training to be a summer camp couselor. What's the advantage to running Sakura-Tribe Elder over another Explorer? Without Meren I really don't see the benefit.
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On-demand sacrifice. You don't always have a CT/Tower/Intent when you need one.
I'm guessing blocking isn't much of an out because there aren't too many creature decks? How's the Punishing Jund matchup? Is it superbly grindy?
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STE over Vet:
- Ramps on its own (without needing a sacrifice outlet)
- Denies Jitte counters / Lifelink triggers
- On-demand sacrifice against Bridge from Below
- If you need an equipment holder, slightly less awkward with Deed
- Fetches Swamp so you can cast Therapy and actually sacrifice Veterans
Is it more of a meta choice then? I would run it but the Eldrazi decks run one Jitte in the sideboard and there are zero dredge decks in my meta. But I lack black fetches so should I run one? Is Meren good against Eldrazi? Sorry for the myriad of questions, I'm pretty tired. I've gotten roughly 5 hours of sleep every night for the past two weeks and it's starting to wear down on me.
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Points 1, 2, 3 and 5 are identical. Lol.
@cavalry: It's mostly personal preference.
They're all variants on 'you can sacrifice it on its own' but that has relevance in multiple different scenarios.
If you don't see much Dredge or DnT, and you're able to get to 14 Black sources in your mana base, you can probably just run Veterans and be fine.
Going with this the next time I get to play. Going to give Ranger of Eos a try. I really like that the tutor package still keeps the creature count up, which is something SFM doesn't have going for it. Also, enough of this list ended up as Humans that I thought Cavern could be interesting so I'm giving it a shot over the 6th basic (or perhaps, it should be over the Marsh Flats). The removal count is a little lower than I would prefer, but that's the tradeoff on this style build. Once it gets going drawing into removal is easy. Not sure how I feel about Meren, I might prefer it to just be another Rhino.
Does anyone have thoughts on Endless One vs Hangarback Walker? One is twice as big, the other flies and makes extra fliers. Both technically work for a loop with Meren and clue tokens to quickly jack up exp counters. I also like that if either dies, it's trivial to put them on top, redraw (even 0 to Bob), and have them come back bigger than before.
Land 22
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
Creatures 19
1 Endless One
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Dark Confidant
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Spells 14
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Vindicate
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
Artifact 3
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Enchantment 2
2 Pernicious Deed
Sideboard 15
1 Carpet of Flowers
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Tidehollow Sculler
Despite getting some sweet alters done for my deck (pics coming soon), I'm kind of been taking a break. I haven't stopped posting results from Leagues because I haven't been winning, but because I haven't been playing. I've just got really bored of the format on modo now, my local scene is full of boring people and overwatch is a lot more entertaining. Plus, I was heart broken when senpai Jbone noticed me but didn't teach me how to beat miracles (you just posted your list! we wanted the report :P but no worries, life is busy). So yea, hopefully the metagame shifts a bit sometime soon...
@Brael, Why are you running a tutor package for one Range of Eos? You can't Green Sun'z Zenith for it obviously. You're just as likely to draw the Endless one as tutor for it...
Ranger probably works better in Pod. But if you're trying it, I recommend a list that overplays for it so at least you get a feel of what the card does for you quickly in play testing and then cut back on them later. Cut the courser and a Rhino and run 3 of them so you have 3 times the chance of playing one while you're testing, see if you like it and then work on the numbers from there.
Also, if you want to run one of them, I think hangar back is better than endless one, simply because it gives you more options, is more defensive (especially in the skies (a weakness of our deck)) and has synergy with our sacrifice effects. ie lingering souls has been card in legacy in a lot more decks than a vanilla X/X for X has been, but I'm open to being wrong :)
I could go up to 2 Ranger, but it's generally the same logic as why I ran some equipment with 1 SFM. It's a way to double up on the hits. Not being able to GSZ for it is fine, you don't tutor up your GSZ's or your SFM's either. Remember though that I do have a lot of control over my draws with Top and Ranger is a card that could come down late. Right now the role is as a value card (3 for 1 minimum) and a way to double up on some utility, for example getting a late game DRS without having to blow a GSZ on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
I've never been a fan of overplayng cards to get a feel for them, but 2 could be right.
That was partially my thought too but with the Tower hands Endless One is much more explosive, I think it plays better with Volraths too.Quote:
Also, if you want to run one of them, I think hangar back is better than endless one, simply because it gives you more options, is more defensive (especially in the skies (a weakness of our deck)) and has synergy with our sacrifice effects. ie lingering souls has been card in legacy in a lot more decks than a vanilla X/X for X has been, but I'm open to being wrong :)
I thought about including an Intent for the X cards so I could sacrifice, get Volraths, and then replay them hopefully bigger than before, but that has just left me even more confused.
Basically, I think it comes down to StP. Hangarback gets blown out by it much worse.
Why does hangar back get blown out by Stp more? Because it's slower? Endless one gets blown out by decay or deed or Liliana more :P
Hangarback is XX, it's half the body for the same cost. You're paying extra because of the potent dies trigger. STP completely stops the dies trigger. Hangarback is better for sure against Decay or Deed, there are tradeoffs to be made. Ultimately I'm hedging towards Miracles here which exiles primarily and kills very little. Liliana is a non factor in my opinion. If you're tutoring off of Ranger you have the Ranger body and you have the other thing it tutored. If you're not, it's usually not hard to have another creature on the field. Of course, you can sacrifice the walker and get a bunch of tokens which is a nice upside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
There's a lot of points in either direction here. BG will destroy W will exile.
Split top 4 at Mythic today for $300 and a bye for next month. I'm not going to go into specifics because I'm trying to play this one fairly close to the vest for now and I don't want a lot of attention drawn to it in advance of Eternal Weekend. Suffice to say that it's a new version based around Sneak Attack (which many of you know I've played around with before, but never really focused upon to the point of taking it to an event). I took down Grixis Control, TES, Elves, and Goblins on my way, with a very close 2-1 loss to Food Chain and an ID in there somewhere.
So yeah...not really going to give out a lot of free information about this one, but The Truth is Out There...
Man, you're a tease. I'm probably going to eternal weekend....and maybe SCG Baltimore depending on work stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I'll message you on FB. I'm also going to be more open with it once we hit early October. The key is that I'm almost certainly going to be on this new version for Eternal Weekend, and I don't want it to become known in the mainstream before then, because I think it is extremely powerful.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone2016
Jund Sneak Fit..?
Hmm... Probably with a side order of spaghetti monster..?
Guys, this question might sound daft but, it's well meant... what is the reason to play this over Deadguy Ale? (I will be asking this same question on the 'other side' thread, just trying to understand if I'm missing something in my own comparison of these two decks)
Thanks!
Why would you play anything over anything? What is your thought into putting this question?Quote:
Originally Posted by jmlima
If your looking to straight out win, then pick a tier 1 deck.
Picking one of the NicFit variants can be a specific local meta choice.
If your looking for the 'experience' then that is very personal.
What NicFit offers:
The toolbox nature of the deck.
Pernicious Deed.
Cmc > 3 creatures.
Not die to wasteland.
Get to play some actual magic.
It never bores.
Closest thing to Survival of the Fittest (pre Vengevine).
Beating T1 decks makes your opponents cry (they hate loosing to standard/edh cards).
This awesome thread.
Be the coolest kid at your lgs.
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I'm not overly familiar with Deadguy but my understanding of their deck is that they try to win the game through discard and card advantage. Discard is the core part of their strategy and then they want to pull ahead with Bob, it's a much more focused strat. Nic Fit is more broad, you have a bit of discard, a bit of CA (or a lot in the case of some builds), but how you're winning is through board presence more than anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmlima
Anyone have any generic advice for help with the matchup of the Rock (BGW) version vs. Eldrazi? It seems pretty rough as it can be hard to get going especially if they get that turn one chalice for one.
Bobmans, that was actually beautiful and made me smile, thanks :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Not sure what your deck-list looks like but. . . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Corgimancer
If your on the play game 2, blind Therapy for Chalice
Abrupt Decay, Abzan's #1 answer to chalice and 2-3 copies should be enough
Qasali Pridemage is a card worth considering for main deck or side board, if Chalice is that much of a problem in your meta
Although it doesn't maximize the combo, I've found myself in those situations just casting Cabal Therapy in face of Chalice on 1 regardless, then on the next turn Green Sun's Zenith for one and tutor for Veteran Explorer (Which gets around Chalice) and just flashing back anyway just to ramp up, giving yourself a good mana base that should get you to a spell that can get rid of chalice of the next turn (I.E. Deed, Maelstrom Pulse, Vindicate, Engineered Explosives)
Gaddock Teeg is not a card that necessarily works well against Eldrazi (If it is in your main-deck, it will most likely be boarded out), but does prevent late game Chalice (late game chalice shouldn't be a worry though if your mana is established) as well as Eldrazi decks that have All is Dust in the main.
And you could just always test the player themselves by simply casting your one drop. It is the responsibility of the chalice player to always announce that the spell will be countered, if a chalice player simply nods and doesn't in someway announce that the spell is countered, the spell is technically resolved and then you do your best to act like you didn't get away with something. It's a bit of controversial trick but if you want to play to win, it's a route worth considering.
Hope this advice was generic enough for you
If you survive the early game you can eventually outclass them. I run Rhino Fit so you can just start chipping away at them until their lands will kill them. Tireless Tracker is an all-star here, along with Thragtusk. Just focus on staying alive for the first 5-7 turns, not killing them. Gain life whenever you can and you will win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corgimancer
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That should be your gameplan in general. Disrupt, stabilize, kill. Answer their first threats, establish a board position and grind them out. We're a control deck, we don't start off as the beatdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack
Did a test run today with my build, opponent picked mono red sneak attack because it did well at the last open. Ended up playing 7 games and I went 6-1, with the 1 being a close loss and the other 6 being very lopsided.
Never drew Ranger but Endless One was fantastic and better than Hangarback would have been, so that's a point in it's favor, another point is that it can dodge the Chalice lockouts. Running mostly Humans the Cavern of Souls was fantastic and it let me somewhat operate through multiple Chalices.
Loved having Sylvan. Just all around good stuff there. Sylvan/Arbor was a pretty neat interaction with both Meren and Volraths.
Once again, the card advantage of this build is unreal. I was able to generate 5 card
s off a Tracker in one game, 4 off a Bob in another, 2 off Courser every time he showed up, the usual Shriekmaw/Witness advantage. On average by the time the games were over I was up 8 or 9 cards on my opponent each game, maybe even more. What I know is that I was able to use all my mana every turn and still have to make decisions on what to do 15 turns into the game, because I just had so many ways to spend mana.
The decks good but I did miss my 4th Top so much that I brought it in during every postboard game. Used the Mentor/Top combo once. It's possibly even stronger here than it is in Miracles because it's yet another must answer threat.
I highly recommend the build if you want to feel like you're playing a blue deck in this format, but don't actually want to play blue.
I played a few test games with the 4-colour build last night against 4C Delver. Went pretty well overall.
- Stabilizes well, particularly against Goyfs, since Strix is so good.
- Might not want Glen Elendra Archmage, since we can't tutor for it. Might be better off as a Meren.
- Jace is probably worth running the second Island for.
Well, there was a scapewish deck in the top 32 (only 4-3) in Legacy Festival on Sunday, but it is worth a look.
Creature (16)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Wood Elves
Sorcery (14)
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift
Instant (2)
2 Abrupt Decay
Artifact (2)
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Enchantment (3)
3 Pernicious Deed
Land (23)
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Sideboard (15)
1 Scapeshift
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
2 Pyroclasm
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Slaughter Games
1 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
I'm still tuning and playing around with my Abzan Explorer Pod list. I have mixed results but it's a work in progress.
Meren has gone out and come back in along with some SB tweaks. I know that the Garruk is a little cute and is probably better suited as a Sorin, Grim Nemesis, I'm just not to the point of giving up yet.
Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 Aven Mindsensor (Considering replacing with Courser of Kruphix)
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Seige Rhino
1 Restoration Angel
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
Non-Creature
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Diabolic Intent
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Birthing Pod
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Batterskull
Lands
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest (I have considered increasing my basics count and lowering the fetches)
2 Swamp
2 Plains
Sideboard
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Containment Priest
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
Edit*
Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions about my proposed changes? I also had Garruk, the Veil Cursed online last week vs Shardless Sultai and found myself wishing that I had a Sidisi Undead Visier (the exploit tutor) that I could find with Garruk. Is that too deep or do you think that another tutor in Sidisi would be useful in this toolbox?
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I think you don't have enough interaction with your opponent and cards like Tireless Tracker are not what you want in a Pod list because it doesn't give you enough. For that matter you seem short on a lot of creatures that generate Pod value.Quote:
Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions about my proposed changes? I also had Garruk, the Veil Cursed online last week vs Shardless Sultai and found myself wishing that I had a Sidisi Undead Visier (the exploit tutor) that I could find with Garruk. Is that too deep or do you think that another tutor in Sidisi would be useful in this toolbox?
Okay, so I think that I understand that you are saying that it is lacking in general, Tireless Tracker doesn't fit in Pod, and that I lack interaction. Are you suggesting that I cut the Tracker for more interaction. What type of interaction to you mean? General removal, hand disruption, ... I'm sorry for being dense but I see you critique but don't quite understand what you are suggesting to improve the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
You need removal spells. Legacy is a high power format, you can't just let your opponent do as they please while you hope to do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by AtticusBlaqk
You also need a plan for the games you don't get Pod, which will be many because it's attractive FoW bait.
Okay, I think that I understand. You're suggesting that I add something like Maelstrom Pulse, StP, PtE, etc to the main instead of trying to rely on the Deeds alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
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Yes. There's nothing wrong with Deed, but it's not a catch all and you just need a certain quantity of removal. Some removal can be creature based such as Murderous Redcap and Qasali Pridemage but you need ways to remove things. I would shoot for at minimum 12 ways to kill various things, and atleast 10 ways to kill creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by AtticusBlaqk
On top of that, I'm not a fan of your creature selection. Among other things I think you really want Voice of Resurgence in there, and I think you really want ways to jump around the curve. Ranger of Eos into multiple Deathrite Shamans is extremely powerful (in Modern it was the strongest line the deck had until DRS's banning) and another powerful line is Rhino into more Rhinos. I would lower the curve some, Pod doesn't need to go up to 5 and 6. Stopping at 4 with maybe 1 5 (Shriekmaw is great, it's another creature based removal) is all you really need.
Cuts I would recommend are:
Teeg - Stops your GSZ and your Pod, not really what you want here.
SFM - Voice does a better job at doing what SFM does
Tracker - This is a 2 for 1, but what Pod really wants is creatures that provide multiple lives for 1 card.
Reclamation Sage - Pridemage does this better
Liliana - Does nothing when you Pod into it or out of it. You have to Pod into it, and then have another creature die for it to do something. And even when that happens you can't really Pod out.
Mindcensor - Good card, not good in this deck
Sigarda/Thragtusk/Dromoka - Cap yourself to 1 5+ drop. I would go Shriekmaw myself since you're cutting on GSZ's. Another option could be Reveillark.
Intent - I'm just not a fan of the card, others will tell you different.
Dryad Arbor - You're not really running any of the cards that play tricks with this, I would just run another land instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I could have saved you a lot of time. Just use this in the future:
#playadifferentdeck
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Do you have a list you don't mind sharing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
Been really interested in a scapeshift version. Would just playing a temur version be out of the question, or do you feel it has to be 4 colors or jund?Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone2016
If you play RUG you lose out on Cabal Therapy. You're pretty much locked into green and black as colors. Read the primer at the start of the thread, it goes into the Scapeshift lists quite a bit. Never played them myself but I think the 3 color builds (green/black/red) have the most success.Quote:
Originally Posted by apolloscr33d
I also could have saved time by telling you to add a whole bunch of stuff and then not suggesting where the cuts to add those things come from. I could have saved the most time by not answering your questions, you're the one who posted asking for others opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by AtticusBlaqk
Lol, no problem, I just wasn't expecting a total rewrite. It doesn't feel like my deck anymore and that is likely a good thing. You make some good points and I acknowledge them. I think that if we were to stick to playing pod this would be a great direction to get the most value out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I appreciate the input. Next time I'll use a more openly friendly reply. Maybe something like, 'Man, I knew my baby was ugly but you didn't have to go that far'
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Went 4-0 last night at another event.
(Let me know if nobody cares about these reports and I'll stop)
Tried splashing red for a bit more combo hate, worked fairly well for me. The red cards in the board went in over 3 thoughtseize. I kinda feel like I want one back. Taiga came on over Scrubland (no double white in the deck). So still balancing that area.
Quite happy in my removal package. Again I don't like too much because it takes away from the main plan. Popping a deed a game is usually more than enough, and with tops you end up seeing something.
Deck: Nic Fit.dec
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:20
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Primeval Titan
Spells:17
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Lands:23
2 Bayou
4 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:15
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Duress
2 Path to Exile
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Plague
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Slaughter Games
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Sneak and show
G1 turn 3 show emrakul-k
G2 a very delicate combination of therapy and surgical that all failed allowed me bait out the forces and brainstorms to zenith for a teag. Jit him up and beat in.
G3 a bit of disruption and turn 5 he shows in emrakul, I show in titania. He swings, I sac lands, make dudes, counter swing.
2-1
Burn
Rhinos. He also did more damage to himself with eidolons than he did me.
2-0
Aggro loam
G1 explorer>tower>titan beats for the win
G2 landed titania, he took out it and token with lily/abrupt. Meren gets her back and go again for win.
2-0
Rhino fit.
Playing against a friend, we collaborate a lot and the decks are similar, but he runs a lot more removal than I do.
G1 I'm applying more pressure then he is, and 1 for 1 removal doesn't help vs etb and instant value cards. Win
G2 I don't see a zenith or a top all game, he closes with primeval titan and rhino loop with tower/stronghold-loss
G3 should have gone to time, but he made a greedy attack, I karakas his meren he left for blocks out of the way to win turn 4 of 5. If it kept going it was anybodies game. - win
2-1
In the end I wanted to bring in some thoughtseize for show and tell which I didn't have, so I'd like to up the side count to 2 Duress and a tz, other than that, very happy with the list.
Please comment, it's very much a work in progress
Niiiice. I've always wanted to do this against Sneak and Show.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4554551//