[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

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Originally Posted by apistat_commander

- So after two weeks of getting crushed by midrange Green decks, I think that I really need to devote more SB space to green creature hate. Rough//Tumble is great against swarm decks but pretty poor against all of the other creature based strategies. I was considering Mind Harness, Cursed Totem, or Gilded Drake. Harness seems pretty powerful for one mana, but I don't know how many turns I can afford the Upkeep cost against Wasteland decks. Cursed Totem wrecks Maverick but Knight is still bigger than all of your creatures. Gilded Drake seems good against the big bomb decks (Reanimater, 12-post, some variants of Nic Fit) but I don't know if I really want to give Maverick/other creature decks a 3/3 flyer. Suggestions?

- I am continually disappointed with expensive answer cards in the SB. Neither Krosan Grip nor Sulfur Elemental felt quick enough against the decks that I wanted them. I know that Grudge is less flexible than Grip but every time I actually want artifact removal, I really want it to be cheaper. Three mana spells are fine against Miracles but that is pretty much the only deck I can say that about (hence the Sulfuric Vortex being worth the slot). Sylvan Library was reactive/underwhelming all night. I think that I prefer SB cards that are more brutal (Pyroblast, Submerge, Vortex) and really give you a better shot at winning games.

- 2 Envelop is probably too many unless you expect to see a lot of Miracles. Even then, I would probably prefer having 3 Pyroblast effects as that deals with half of the threats that you are worried about and Stifle/Pierce/Force can pick up the rest.

- I play against a ton of Wasteland decks, so I am going to try a miser Life from the Loam in the board. I don't know if it will be any good but it seems like it is at least worth testing. I play fine off of a single land but resolving Loam once in the mirror should give you enough lands to pull ahead.

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With all the discussion surrounding sideboard construction, I thought it might be helpful to list the sideboards from the 1st and 2nd place decks from the latest SCG Open:

Sideboard:
1 Gilded Drake
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Submerge
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Life from the Loam

Sideboard:
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Sulfur Elemental
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Krosan Grip
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Submerge
1 Life from the Loam
2 Rough / Tumble

With regard to the Maverick matchup, its worth noting that both decks also played 1 Dismember and 2 Forked Bolt in the maindeck. Both of those choices seem to be concessions to the Maverick match up. If Knight of the Reliquary is a persistent problem, I would suggest Scavenging Ooze as an alternative to the 4th Tarmogoyf given that it can eat lands out of your opponent's graveyard.

I'm not sure what your maindeck burn package looks like but a minimum of 2 Forked Bolt and perhaps the addition of Dismember combined with a more focused sideboard may help improve the matchup. Looking over the sideboards from the top decks this weekend, it would seem that

4 Submerge, and perhaps Grim Lavamancer and Sulfur Elemental are the routes to take post game one. The Maverick matchup is very difficult and play testing, more than deck construction, will help increase your win percentage.

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Originally Posted by Fossil4182

With regard to the Maverick matchup, its worth noting that both decks also played 1 Dismember and 2 Forked Bolt in the maindeck. Both of those choices seem to be concessions to the Maverick match up. If Knight of the Reliquary is a persistent problem, I would suggest Scavenging Ooze as an alternative to the 4th Tarmogoyf given that it can eat lands out of your opponent's graveyard.

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I have tried Ooze a few times and I was always disappointed. Against most of the decks where I wanted him, my opponents could Waste me off of green mana pretty easily. I just don't think that Ooze fits with how I play the deck.

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I'm not sure what your maindeck burn package looks like but a minimum of 2 Forked Bolt and perhaps the addition of Dismember combined with a more focused sideboard may help improve the matchup. Looking over the sideboards from the top decks this weekend, it would seem that 4 Submerge, and perhaps Grim Lavamancer and Sulfur Elemental are the routes to take post game one. The Maverick matchup is very difficult and play testing, more than deck construction, will help increase your win percentage.

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I am currently down to one Forked Bolt main. The Spell Snares offer more value in most of my MUs and I just don't see enough creature decks to warrant additional removal. I really like Forked Bolt but it simply didn't do enough against most of the decks I face. I was hoping to gain my edge mainly out of the SB, but I may need to adjust the mainboard and go back to a 4 Pierce/2 Forked Bolt set up. I was probably playing less than optimally. As I noted in my report, I kept a one-land hand on the mistaken impression that Punishing Mav didn't have space for Wastes. I was wrong and got crushed because of it.

I've played a lot against maverick and my conclusions are:

It is a pretty tough matchup that I respect in the european meta. Good players will know how to beat RUG and you need to play very tight and design MD & SB optimal to try to get even. A positive matchup is hardly possible.

Concerning the strategy:

Delver is gold; especially early. Defending Delver with Pierce/Force is more important than in other matchups. LIke goose beeing the best creature against UW decks, flying is delvers big asset, since they have so many ground creatures. They have inevitability and once fallen behind it is pretty tough to come back. Wins are mostly not clear wins like crushing them and it usually feels like it is juuust enough tempo/life loss advantage before they stabalize. On the other hand they will have wins where they just crush you...

Concerning specific card choices:

Fire//Ice is bad, because it costs 4 under a thalia.

Forked Bolt is good, but most of the time you cannot wait for the 2 for 1. Mother thalia have to be killed on site and it is also sometimes correct to kill hierarch immediately.

Altough Stifle has more targets you can imagine, it is not effective in disrupting the opponents mana development (where it would be helpful). All other stifle targets are a net loss of cards and usually a desperate play. People will remember stifling a mother or a trigger of jitte for the win, but these situations are ultra-narrow and not a result of a favourable game state.

Force of Will is very good! Protecting your threat by countering swords or a goundblock is winning. The 2 for 1 is ok when gaining enough tempo. We cannot just trade 1:1 like against other decks and just play another creature, since they stabalize better.

Spell Pierce: I like Pierce over Snare, altough snare has its merits against Thalia. To me Piercing their Swords & Path on my delver is way more important.
Also GSZ, Jitte & Sylvan are super good targets.

Daze: Good on the play - bad on the draw! duuuh... but this is more true here than against other decks.

Nimbe Mongoose & creatures: I've heard people say "cut him", but I find him better than Goyf. They both loose to ooze & knight and if threshold is reached win against the rest. Mongoose being cheaper and not targetable makes him better imo. Anyway all creatures have to stay in for threat density.

Never played Ooze, because of his general antisynergy with the deck. Th plan to beat a knight like this won't work too much I think. Not enough mana...

SB:
Grim Lavamancer: Did not test him too much. Similar to Oooze I don't like the antisynergy of it beeing manaintensive - not to speak of mongoose. So I tried him instead of mongoose from the board but the poblem is - you kill something - they play something... it will never stop until your GY is empty or their creatures are too big. So you need to attack while killing stuff anyway. So T1 Delver for sure, then they play mother, then you have to bolt or ponder for bolt,... no problem if you play turn 1 lavamancer, but how do you make sure you have 2 cards in GY wihtout casting a cantrip? Maybe you cannot play T2 Delver & activate lavamancer in turn 2 as well. Try it out and proof me wrong but I switched mongoose for lavamancer for a while and was not successful.

Submerge vs. Mind Harness
I play a 2/2 split
Mind Harness is the better card, because having a 2 for 1 for 2-3 turns can be the game ending play you need .
Intelligent also will play around submerge a lot and not activate their knight - it is also hardly necessary. Still Submerge is exactly what you need in terms of gaining the tempo advantage you need to win. My favourite target is dryad arbor.

Rough//Tumble.
I never wanted it - but think it is the best option. Very good against tribals - seldomly against maverick you cant get that much value because mother and thalia have to be killed on sight. Still it will do enough to deserve its spot.

Krosan Grip - dont bring it in. THeir 2-4 enchantments have to be countered. Sylvan LIbrary is in fact a negative tempo play and you can sometimes let it happen if you attack and have answers to their follow-up plays.

Sulfur Elemental: Decent, altough it is still tough to let a mother live - can only be done if you are sure of the mana. Problem is if they waste and/or play thalia you cannot cast your cantrips proberply to get the 3 mana. They might have enough time for ooze/knight and you suddenly lost. Meaning I would not lay all my eggs in the sulfur basket (unless safe or desperate) and use him as a lategame surprise kill + swam kind of thing.

My MD consists of
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
1 Dismember

SB
2 Submerge
2 Rough//Tumble
2 Mind Harness
which I bring in for - 4 Stifle & 2 Daze (draw), -1 Daze or 1 Spell Pierce (play)

If I expect more Maverick in my meta I would add more Submerge and also try out electrickery. 1 mana instant kill for their early stuff with a rare instant forked bolt effect for 2 mana.

Mind harness also has serious upside versus goblins. holding lackey back for a few turns or having a blocker that isn;t blue and trades with piledriver is pretty awesome where submerge is dead in that match.

Have people been trying Hidden Gibbons? I've used it for a while, and it was gold against mirror and cantrip-heavy decks (Stoneblade, UW Miracles and Combo in general). G for 4/4 Ape isn't a bad thing, and it's like an one-sided Standstill for the mirror.

My latest list doesn't include it though, here it is:

4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
2 Forked Bolt
1 Sylvan Library

SB: 3 Submerge
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Envelop
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Rough/Tumble
SB: 1 Krosan Grip

Seems good. Envelop is T3HSH1T in this latest metagame, with all those Terminus and Show and Tells. Spell Pierce is getting weaker and weaker, since everyone now expects it and plays arround it like there's no tomorrow (which isn't a bad thing, imho). If I were to put Hidden Gibbons in my sideboard again, it would be definetely: -3 Surgical +3 Hidden Gibbons, and just hope that I won't face any Dredge or Reanimator, lulz.

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

SB: 3 Submerge
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Envelop
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Rough/Tumble
SB: 1 Krosan Grip

Seems good. Envelop is T3HSH1T in this latest metagame, with all those Terminus and Show and Tells. Spell Pierce is getting weaker and weaker, since everyone now expects it and plays arround it like there's no tomorrow (which isn't a bad thing, imho). If I were to put Hidden Gibbons in my sideboard again, it would be definetely: -3 Surgical +3 Hidden Gibbons, and just hope that I won't face any Dredge or Reanimator, lulz.

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other than terminus and entreat what is envelop hitting that REB/pyro cannot that you care about, stifle also hits miracles? your storm match up is already very positive, GSZ is annoying but I don't think you are bringing it in vs those decks. I guess innocent blood maybe?

I do like hidden gibbons though (I have toyed with playing one) and I don't think you need that much grave hate. I go back and forth on grip and vortex, grip does answer alot but costs three, whereas vortex is another hard to deal with win condition that is good versus the slow control decks.

my board is similar (still in flux and changes weekly/ what I expect to see), my main is close to yours( -library, -1 daze +2 spell snare) before it was 4 pierce 3 daze 1 dismember, but I have been disappointed to draw it at times. although it does do a ton of work when it is relevant.

Envelop is super good right now. Cannot be compared to red-blast at all. Sure Stifle also helps, but that does not mean that a 1 mana hard counters for the 6 game deciding spells against the best/most popular control deck is not a good idea. Also storm is not a "super positive" matchup and spell pierce is often awkward. Spell Snare is better that pierce in this matchup as a hard counter for their business: burning wish & Infernal tutor - Envelop does the same job. But more important than Storm is the popular Omnitell matchup. Overmaster + Burning Wish and Show & Tell himself are hit. Envelop is almost "strictly" better than pierce in this matchup and especially against overmaster pierce is awkward.

So to the question what are the important spells that envelop hit that red-blast does not:
Terminus
Entreat the Angels
Burning Wish
Infernal Tutor
Overmaster

and less popular
Faithless looting
All black discard and land distruction spells
Price of Progress and other burn shit

Miracles & Show & Tell is certainly something you want to prepare for and having a card that hits both matchups hard while beeing good against other less popular decks (storm, dredge, pox, burn, nic fit) make it a good sideboard choice.

"Envelop is super good right now. Cannot be compared to red-blast at all."

I agree with you catmint. At the same time some number of reb/pb is important too, but definitely a split between them.

"Also storm is not a "super positive" matchup and spell pierce is often awkward."

Once again I agree with you, would go so far as to say that it is not even good. Something between decent and good depends on the decklist ofcourse.

True, I also play 2 red-blast. Envelop does not compete with red-blast imo, but more with flex slots like Krosan Grip, Sulfuric Vortex and stuff...

I am also surprised how clear I sometimes loose to a very skilled storm player with RUG. They have a lot of good tools either 7 chant effects or cabal therapy + other discard to attack our strategy of taxing counters. A good storm player also seems to have the optimal timing to go off exactly the turn before they would die. The biggest reason why storm is not more popular is because it is much more difficult to master. Neverteless I think it is an even fight if there is no skill advantage.

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Originally Posted by catmint

True, I also play 2 red-blast. Envelop does not compete with red-blast imo, but more with flex slots like Krosan Grip, Sulfuric Vortex and stuff...

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Envelop is good but I would have to see a ton of Miracles before I would want to run more than a single copy. It does have some powerful applications (you missed Glimpse of Nature/Perish in your list) and I really love hard counters in this deck as people put most of their energy into playing around the taxing counters.

Hidden Gibbons is a powerful card but I just don't think it fills a need in the deck. It is awesome in the mirror but Submerges, REBs, and tight play are generally a solid strategy. It is pretty poor against aggro. It is okay against combo but additional countermagic is probably better as you don't want to give them the option of controlling your clock. It can up your threat density against control decks but depending on what you are facing there are probably more flexible answers you could be including in your board.

Envelope seems like an interesting sideboard option. However, I'm still a fan of REB and Flusterstorm over something narrow such as Envelope.

Red Elemental allows the RUG player to counter

Brainstorm
Force of Will
Spell Piece
Divert
Misdirection
Cunning Wish
Jace, the Mind Sculptor*
Delver of Secrets*
Any Merfolk*

in addition to:

Ponder
Preordain
Show and Tell
Time Spiral

*Targets REB can blow up once in play.

Anything that REB can't target (IE non Blue Instants and Sorceries) is covered by Flusterstorm. While Flusterstorm isn't a hard counter, I would contend its better post board than Envelope. In a traditional control deck, I would run Envelope since it answers a specific set of cards. However, two of the fundamental tenets of RUG is the flexibility of its cards and its ability to capitalized on tempo. Comparing Flusterstorm to Envelope, I do not think one could claim Envelope is strictly better than Flusterstorm. While Envelope is situationally preferable and a hard counter, I would prefer Flusterstorm for three reasons:

1. Flusterstorm has flexibility allowing it to be played in a plethora of match-ups. Any match up where one would want more copies of Spell Piece (to target Instant and Sorceries), Flusterstorm can be included and is always at least as good if not better than Spell Pierce.

2. Most of the time, Flusterstorm is functionally a hard counter. Combined with Stifle and Wasteland, Flusterstorm gets much more potent since in nearly all instances, your opponent will have to pay for Flusterstorm. In a tempo mirror or tempo/control match-up, Flusterstorm is one of the most effective counterspells because of how it can control the stack.

3. Flusterstorm is almost impossible to counter. As a result of the Storm mechanic, its nearly impossible to trade for Flusterstorm in a 1:1 ratio. For example, in the Show and Tell match-up, Envelope is countered by Red Elemental Blast (which is boarded in). However, Red Elemental Blast (and nearly every other counterspell) is mostly irrelevant against Flusterstorm. Flusterstorm is the most effective taxing counter because it forces your opponent to either pay mana or waste free counterspells to remove copies off the stack. The only cards that effectively trade with Flusterstorm are Mindbreak Trap (when free) and Flusterstorm. Even in the Miracles match-up, Flusterstorm allows RUG to potentially counter Miracles under a Counterbalance lock.

I've been running envelop for a while now but I have a lot more combo in my area then most people.

Anyways to people having problems with the maverick/deadguy/death and taxes match ups try eletrickery. I know it seems dumb but it actually has some very important subtle aspects to it.

Most of the time we are using forked bolt or lightning bolt to kill a turn one mom so that we can use our non-red removal on other actual threats such as confidant, stoneforge, and ooze. Being one mana is very key here so that mother of runes doesn't untap. Instant speed is also nice even though it's usually irrelevant. Once you make it past turn one electrickery can still kill a thalia for 2 mana unlike rough//tumble but still has the capability of the small two for one blowouts against turn one hierarch/dryad arbor into turn two mom.

Electrickery isn't going to deal with a knight of the reliquary or scavenging ooze however and those are two very real very scary creatures for threshold. Usually my game plan is to just try and keep them on turn one or two by removing all their early guys and ignoring the big guy, if it manages to get past my counterspells, and hoping I get a submerge.

Flusterstorm sucks at countering Terminus. The counter-argument is: AH, STIFLE RAPES TERMINUS AS WELL. But Terminus is a mid-to-late game casting, and by then you should have already stifled some Fetchlands or Stoneforge Mystics, and Spell Pierce won't cover that. Against UW control, if they resolve Terminus (in turn 3, 4, 5), you just lost. They'll bring some Jace or Stoneforge action, and you're dead. It's THE most important spell to be countered in that matchup.

Envelop is better against UW, I think. Flusterstorm is better against combo, but we already have a pretty good matchup against combo, so I don't see it as necessary.

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

Flusterstorm sucks at countering Terminus. The counter-argument is: AH, STIFLE RAPES TERMINUS AS WELL. But Terminus is a mid-to-late game casting, and by then you should have already stifled some Fetchlands or Stoneforge Mystics, and Spell Pierce won't cover that. Against UW control, if they resolve Terminus (in turn 3, 4, 5), you just lost. They'll bring some Jace or Stoneforge action, and you're dead. It's THE most important spell to be countered in that matchup.

Envelop is better against UW, I think. Flusterstorm is better against combo, but we already have a pretty good matchup against combo, so I don't see it as necessary.

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I have to completely agree with this. I run flusterstorm, envelop, and pyroblast in my sideboard but that's because I have a crazy combo meta. The flusterstorms are only coming in against combo. Against miracles the only cards we really care about are counterbalance and terminus if we think about it that way a mixture envelop, pyroblast, and stifle are the best ways to combat those cards.

Flusterstorm is nice since it really is hard to counter but it kind of sucks if it's the only counter in your hand. What can and will happen a lot is that they will miracle a terminus with two or three mana open and just pay two. Flusterstorm is good at the end of a counterwar but terrible when it's the only thing you have.

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

Flusterstorm sucks at countering Terminus. The counter-argument is: AH, STIFLE RAPES TERMINUS AS WELL. But Terminus is a mid-to-late game casting, and by then you should have already stifled some Fetchlands or Stoneforge Mystics, and Spell Pierce won't cover that. Against UW control, if they resolve Terminus (in turn 3, 4, 5), you just lost. They'll bring some Jace or Stoneforge action, and you're dead. It's THE most important spell to be countered in that matchup.

Envelop is better against UW, I think. Flusterstorm is better against combo, but we already have a pretty good matchup against combo, so I don't see it as necessary.

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If RUG is playing in the mid-late game against UW control, then its already lost. Yes, Stifle can be used as an answer to Terminus, but in the same vein, allowing UW control to reach the late game means the RUG player is going to loose anyway. RUG doesn't have a true mid - late game plan; in this match up, RUG is the aggro deck.

The other counter argument is there is a high probability that by the mid - late game, the UW control player will have an active Counterbalance and Top in play. While Envelope is a hard counter, it is worthless under a Counterbalance lock. Flusterstorm can at least force them to pay for the mana and the RUG play can unload all of their dead cards in hand to increase the spell count even under a Counterbalance lock.

I'm also not convinced combo is a positive match-up for RUG. If the match-up is positive, its only by the narrowest of margins (probably 55 - 45). Even people who pilot RUG at a high level only put the match up at 50 - 50. Its even worse combo deck is running Silence or Orim's Chant.

I disagree on the "you lost if you are in the mid to late game".

Depending on your hand you might not want to overextend - just make some damage fight over key spells (counterbalance, jace) - let him terminus your mongoose -> play another one. Let them play their 6+ lands, play with 3 lands and send the rest back - there you go "ancestrall recall". Postboard I minimize daze & spell pierce and win a fair share of long games!

If you always play like an aggro deck because you are sure to loose going late you might just really loose to 1 terminus resolving.

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Originally Posted by Fossil4182

I'm also not convinced combo is a positive match-up for RUG. If the match-up is positive, its only by the narrowest of margins (probably 55 - 45). Even people who pilot RUG at a high level only put the match up at 50 - 50. Its even worse combo deck is running Silence or Orim's Chant.

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Arguably, RUG is what drove 'combo' out of the meta (when you refer to 'combo,' I assume you mean Storm). Thalia is the other factor, but she isn't seeing much play anymore and Storm decks are still non-existent.

Who are these people that put the match-up at 50-50? Silence and Orim's Chant are difficult to play around, and to a greater extent, Cabal Therapy (usually naming Force of Will), but RUG has enough of a clock and enough disruption to stop Storm.

When you board against Storm, you want to cut creatures and burn. You drop some number of Tarmogoyfs and perhaps Nimble Mongooses (depending upon whether or not you play Thought Scour). Only leave in burn if you know they are playing Dark Confidant or Xantid Swarm.

The strategy is to drop an early Delver or Thressed Goose and ride it to victory. With your hand manipulation (aka card selection), mana destruction (aka Wasteland), Stifle (stop fetchlands or Storm triggers), and your taxing and hard counters (Daze, Spell Pierce, Force of Will, Envelop, Flusterstorm, REB, PB, etc.), combined with a relatively fast clock, RUG should be better than 50-50 vs. Storm. At least it is in my experience, but maybe I'm not playing against the most experienced players.

The only thing worse for Storm than RUG is BUG because BUG has discard in addition to its fast clock. Decks like UW can be tough, but they have a slow clock and that slow clock gives the Storm player time to sculpt a strong hand.

Also, I just want to note that no match up (at least not between two tier I or tier II decks), is usually better than 60:40. There are extreme outliers, but most Magic matches, when you account for variance and take two competent pilots with properly constructed decks, are going to very somewhere between a 40-60 split. When you review the Hatfields' 'Too Much Information' on StarCityGames.com, the very best decks are always under 60% win-rate against the field. I realize individual match-ups will vary outside this range, but a 55-60% game-win percentage is very strong for any deck. RUG is usually at the top of the list when the Hatfields publish their analyses.

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Originally Posted by Water_Wizard

Also, I just want to note that no match up (at least not between two tier I or tier II decks), is usually better than 60:40. There are extreme outliers, but most Magic matches, when you account for variance and take two competent pilots with properly constructed decks, are going to very somewhere between a 40-60 split. When you review the Hatfields' 'Too Much Information' on StarCityGames.com, the very best decks are always under 60% win-rate against the field. I realize individual match-ups will vary outside this range, but a 55-60% game-win percentage is very strong for any deck. RUG is usually at the top of the list when the Hatfields publish their analyses.

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This is right on. For those of you out there that disagree, read this article. It might be a bit of work for those with limited mathmatical backgrounds, but the data doesn't lie.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...acy-Opens.html


On the topic of recent results, I went 3-1 this week at locals and ending in third place. It was one of those awkward three way ties for the 9 pointers... where I lost to a player who lost to a player that I beat. At any rate it was a good night.

Round 1: Pox - I was a little worried about this match up as both discard and land destruction can really cripple our deck. Contrary to my thoughts going into the match, I was able to counter basically every relevant spell my opponent cast while applying the beats in both games one and two. I think in the two games of 5-8 Pox and Smallpox cast, one Pox resolved. It actually hurt y opponent worse than me. I was able to only sac, one creature, land, and discard one land. He lost two lands and his last card. The life loss put him at lethal a turn faster. So this round ended 2-0.

Round 2: RUG - You guys know how the mirror works. My opponent won the die roll and had the burn to finish me off after I stablized in game one. I was able to kill all his dudes and keep a threshed goose and a goyf on the board. However when you are at single digit life, all it takes is a burn spell or two. Game two I think I cast 6-7 Tarmogoyfs. I saw all 4 of mine and had to recast them a few times due to Submerges. I was able to take that one down. In game three I got stuck in a tough spot with one goyf of my own and one that I had Mind Harnessed. My opponent had 3 tarmogoyfs... so this match up turned out to be based on who could draw the most Goyfs. He was able to power the win out in game three. I will note that Mind Harness did a considerable amount of work for me. If my opponent hadn't drawn, Gofy, Goyf... he would have been really dead. Sometimes that happens though. 1-2

Round 3: Pox - What is with this sudden incursion of Pox decks? Anyway game one my opponent is able to get a Nether Void to stick on turn two off of a Dark Rit. It is worth mentioning he Therapied a FoW out of my hand on turn one. I scooped at this point; however, in hindsight, I should have played it out as I had two lands in play and knew the top two cards of my deck were lands. My opponent was on one land. So I likely would have been able to cast things before he was. But I didn't want to durdle around. The next two games were pretty easy, I was able to counter all of his key spells while beating him down with duders. One notable play I made was a Brainstorm in response to an Inqusition of Kozilek. I found a FoW and two land. So my opponent got totally blanked and saw, Fetch, Fetch, Wasteland, and FoW. That was pretty awesome. 2-1

Round 4: Sam Black Zombies - What is with all of these discard decks? Easy mode... play guys, attack (their dudes are unable to block) and counter Lingering Souls if possible (as these silly spirit tokens can block). Your counter magic here is kind of weak as 8 of their threats can come right back from the graveyard. So your counter magic should be saved for their removal for your threats and Lingering Souls. Souls isn't really that good unless we are a Delver only plan. Anyway both games I was able to stick a few threats and just ride to a quick beatdown win. Game 2 was a bit closer. There was a good bit of combat math that had to be considered. But I was able to breakthrough both times. 2-0

So to further explain the final standings, the guy I lost to in the last round had beat the other RUG player who I had lost to. So the other RUG player ended first, the Zombies player ended second, and I ended third. It was a bit of a let down of a finish but still netting money/store credit is always a win, especially when you can do it in a Legacy event.


Edit: There is a local Legacy event in my hometown this weekend. It will be a largely unknown meta. The area doesn't have a large legacy following either, so I am guessing some of the decks will be incomplete/not tier one. As such, I figured I would ask the question here, what would you guys make your sideboard look like for an event like this? I am pretty sure two of my friends will be playing and they will likely be playing BUG Delver/Bant and Bant. Any thought would be appreciated. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

Have people been trying Hidden Gibbons? I've used it for a while, and it was gold against mirror and cantrip-heavy decks (Stoneblade, UW Miracles and Combo in general). G for 4/4 Ape isn't a bad thing, and it's like an one-sided Standstill for the mirror.

My latest list doesn't include it though, here it is:

4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
2 Forked Bolt
1 Sylvan Library

SB: 3 Submerge
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Envelop
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Rough/Tumble
SB: 1 Krosan Grip

Seems good. Envelop is T3HSH1T in this latest metagame, with all those Terminus and Show and Tells. Spell Pierce is getting weaker and weaker, since everyone now expects it and plays arround it like there's no tomorrow (which isn't a bad thing, imho). If I were to put Hidden Gibbons in my sideboard again, it would be definetely: -3 Surgical +3 Hidden Gibbons, and just hope that I won't face any Dredge or Reanimator, lulz.

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I want Hidden Gibbons to be good. Always loved the card. However, Hidden Gibbons into a Terminus is pretty bad (kinda funny).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Metalwalker

I want Hidden Gibbons to be good. Always loved the card. However, Hidden Gibbons into a Terminus is pretty bad (kinda funny).

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Yep, it would be funny if Terminus was an instant.
(Tsabo's Decree telling ape would work, if it was a playable card)