Neeley, any thoughts to boil over choke in that match up? It comes down later, but instant speed surprise is nice, and they can't undo it with a decay. Maybe just straight up blood moon from the red versions? Boil is nice against miracles too.
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Neeley, any thoughts to boil over choke in that match up? It comes down later, but instant speed surprise is nice, and they can't undo it with a decay. Maybe just straight up blood moon from the red versions? Boil is nice against miracles too.
I assume you are talking about Punishing Maverick? So I think boil is worth a spot, I tried 2 winter orbs in the board and wasn't impressed. I think a 1/1 split between choke and boil would be good and will probably try it in the next league I play. I don't think blood moon is the right fit in the deck. I do believe G/W/b is the best version and Thalia trumps punishing fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
My buddy whom has played Maverick maybe twice before 4-0'd tonight with my deck. He said new Thalia is insane. I think Maverick has pretty solid positioning in the meta currently. Sadly right after I get the fun of tireless tracker new Thalia comes in and takes over
Sorry, but I think the last list you posted didn't have new Thalia. Can you share the new list?Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Again, probably better off being black with decay, but the red does provide some interesting options. I also think a straight GW version may be viable again
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Ajani Vengeant
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Rogues Passage
1 Dryad Arbor
SB:
2 Pyroblast
2 Electrickery
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Boil
1 Life from the Loam
1 Krosan Grip
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Faerie Macabre
Another 5-0 with same list
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13088&d=276468&f=LE
NEELEY,
I've started trading into Maverick as my first legacy deck and I actually did a physical fist pump when I saw your deck on mtgtop8 once again. I've made an account to ask a dumb question and to share my list. First the list (pretty stock stuff from reading here and researching for months:
Creatures:26
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Tireless Tracker
Spells:12
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Lands:22
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
2 Plains
2 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:15
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog
And the dumb question... I noticed your list doesn't run the new Thalia. Is she not available on Magic Online or do you just not run her? Also, another dumb question. I'd really like to run Titania as a singleton, but is that just too cute?
Finally, if anyone has any critique of my list, please let me know. I'll be playing against friends on infect, burn, candleless high tide and at a local shop with an unknown small meta.
Main: Hierarch is generally superior to Birds in GWb. 2nd basic Plains is also unnecessary, unless you're concerned about the Burn deck (Canopy or Cavern is probably ideal here in a vaccuum).Quote:
Originally Posted by Vervandi
Side: Bojuka Bog is a bit weak unless you're also playing Crop Rotation. Run Surgical Extraction or RIP instead. If Burn is a concern run Duress instead of Thoughtseize.
I thought birds would be better to produce black and hold a sword? Are the DRS and the lands enough to hit black, especially after sideboard?Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphix
I want that plains to eventually become a Canopy, but I'd like to wait until it is reprinted in a supplement set. I do have Cavern I could slot it in now if that would be better.
Wouldn't either surgical extraction / RIP be harder to find than bog since at least KOTR can search for it?
Good point about Duress / Thoughtseize. If you've played legacy for a while, do you find that duress hits most everything that Thoughtseize would have been hitting anyway?
Your list is pretty light on black spells so the added benefit of exalted is pretty good, especially with Thalia. Bog with active knight is fine, but that is turn 3 at the earliest. Which against many of the graveyard stategies is really really slow. Rotation turns it into a possible turn 1 play. Duress/TS are coming in generally against combo and maybe control a bit, where those matches 95% of the time you're taking a non creature. So having an extra healing salve against burn is pretty niceQuote:
Originally Posted by Vervandi
Birds is situationally better for the reasons you mention, but Hierarch is generally better due to the Exalted trigger and also being able to attack by itself. If you really want to run Birds you can do a 3 DRS/1 Hierarch/1 Birds split.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vervandi
You're a little light on grave hate as is (just 4 DRS, 1 Ooze, and 1 SB slot), so I'd consider dedicating an extra SB slot to GY hate. That way you can run 2 of whatever GY hate card and you'll be more likely to draw it. Other thing to try is cutting the 2nd Canonist for E-Tutor and play just 1 RIP you can tutor for. There are lots of different ways you can build your SB with this deck.
Looking at your list again I notice you have 2 Bayous instead of the usual 1 Bayou-1 Scrubland split. 4 fetchable White sources is a good number, so if you're going to stay on 2 Bayou I think the 3rd Savannah might be a better switch for the 2nd basic Plains. 2 fetchable Black sources is enough for your list as is, going up to 3 is only warranted if you're playing multiple copies of Decay in the 75.
Agreed that discard is almost never pointed at creatures when playing this deck...I'm honestly baffled by the near universal adoption of Thoughtseize over Duress, as the life loss can be relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
My thanks to both of you.
I really like the idea of the Enlightened Tutor / RIP combo in the board because E. Tutor can find other things as well. I guess it is kinda like a psuedo SFM in a way. (Oh my god, I just realized it fetches Cannonist, man the little things that can be done with this deck!)
EDIT: I just remembered something about RIP. Would that be bad with KOTR? Would Wheel of Sun and Moon be better here?
The reason I wanted to go 2 Bayou, 2 Savannah over 1 Bayou, 1 Scrubland , 2 savannah is because I actually own a bayou, and the 8 fetches. So it saves me money to buy a Bayou instead of a Scrubland and 4 verdant catacombs and the mana base seems pretty similar.
What would be your opinions on Savannah vs Horizon Canopy for that plains replacement down the road? Would Savannah being fetchable be more important than the cantrip?
I'm going to take your advice on the Noble Hierarch over BOP. With the pridemages it seems like you could almost have a little exalted subtheme going on, for what it is worth, not to mention, it probably feels better drawing a hierarch late game than it does a bird to either suit up or grant exalted to something else.
I'll definitely try the duress over thoughtseize.
One last question...I had mentioned Titania earlier. Is that just too cute / expensive for this deck? I think I am a little hung up on her interactions with so many other things in the deck, but maybe she is better in something like nic fit? Is she totally unplayable here?
If this is where you're at right now, I wouldn't worry about the manabase stuff too much. The best thing for you to be doing is sleeving up the deck and playing games with it, not trying to eek out small percentage points of consistency, that stuff can wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vervandi
RIP hurts us a little, but hurts the decks we bring it in against much more (Reanimator, Dredge, Lands, even fair decks like Shardless/Team America BUG & Canadian Thresh). Sure, Deathrite Shaman becomes Squire and Knight becomes Gray Ogre, but our deck still functions through it. Knight has plenty of utility tutoring up lands, and Exalted + Equips + Mother mean your men are still good in combat. Exalted beats are a very real thing and win many games. I miss playing all 4 Hierarchs a lot because of this.
I've never played Titania in Maverick, but I'll say that I've never wanted a 5-drop bomb in the deck. This topic gets discussed ad nauseam every few pages so you can go back and find stuff on it.
I've played Titania before. She's meh. I never wanted to green Sun for her. Sigarda has been sick though
I took a little break from Maverick and have been playing a lot of Loam lately, not putting very many 5-0's with, only 1 i think. But now I have played maverick the last couple weeks and doing very well with, in a league currently sitting 2-0. People consider Maverick a fringe deck on MTGO because of miracles being good vs the deck. They even say things like "man people will play anything in legacy, even when its position terribly", I just laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vervandi
I don't see the point of the new Thalia and haven't even wanted to test her( I could be wrong).
Birds is a no go here, deff hierarch. We have scryb and mom to get through with equipments. If you aren't playing decay main you only need 2 black sources so I would change foothills to catacombs so you can get your scrubland(not in your list). 2 plains is not neede but the 2 forest I like.
I have never really tried the big threats in Maverick, I want my deck to be consistent and not get stranded with something I can't cast.
Hope this helps!
Is 6 Thalia working for you? I haven't played Maverick in a looong while and can't help but think this new Thalia is feast-or-famine. Lots of folks raving about her when she works. I'm just baffled people aren't complaining about her legend-ruling herself (Guardian into Heretic no bueno).Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
After lots of testing in different shells, THC needs to be ramped into in order to work. Maverick is pretty good at that, luckily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
She doesn't legend rule herself, BTW. The legend rule is about actual card names, not character names. Planeswalkers have a subtype that is their character name. For example, JTMS and Jace, Telepath Unbound both say "Planeswalker -- Jace."
Creatures don't have something similar. It's not "Creature -- Human Soldier Thalia." So you can have both TGoT and THC on the board at the same time.
Yeah old Thalia into new Thalia is legal and super sick. She's definitely worse the later the game goes on, like old Thalia, but dudes coming in tapped is pretty huge. Also like I said earlier, she's nuts versus elves
So I think if you want to play her, you probably want to run a 4 noble, 4 DRS version to utilize her being a 3 ccQuote:
Originally Posted by maharis
Nah, don't need to. Megadeus' build above already has 4 Noble, 1 Bird, 4 GSZ for first turn acceleration. You could maaybe run 6 dorks 4 GSZ but more starts getting irresponsible IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by NEELEY
Yeah 9 ramp pieces counting GSZ is plenty. You just have to mulligan most hands that don't have acceleration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
I also think Stoneforge should stay in the deck but I know that's the popular area to cut. Thing is, first strike + Jitte is so awesome and since we're adding more first strikers, seems like we should have an equip plan as well.
I like 1 SFM, 1 Jitte, 1 Sofai. If I added another stone forge it would be at the expense of like my 2nd scavenging ooze, but I have really liked having the 2nd ooze.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
Thank you very much for the response. After considering all the great advice I have received in this thread, my revised deck list looks like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by NEELEY
Creatures:26
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar (These may become something else after I get some experience with the deck)
1 Tireless Tracker
Spells:12
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Lands:22
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
2 Plains (one of these will become something else down the road)
2 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:15
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Duress
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke
I went 4-1 in 2 different leagues over the last couple days. The first one I tried 3 decay main and it was okay, I cut the batterskull, stoneforge and pridemage. The other league I played 2 new Thalia(along with 4 of the old) and played 3 nobles with the 4 DRS. I think I loss my last round to dredge on a mulligan to 5 in game 3 and turn 2 gsz for DRS wasn't fast enough because I drew nothing but lands after. Just a couple updates that the core of the deck is strong and still wins a lot
@Double Thalia situation: Thank you for clarifying this! Hmm maybe I should play SCG this weekend. Debating it.
I'd probably run something similar to Vervandi's list.Quote:
Originally Posted by NEELEY
I've been away from competitive stuff maybe too long. I don't want to throw away an event and embarrass myself.
How come lists no longer run Teeg and Sigarda 1.0? Those were auto included, but perhaps I don't understand some things nowadays.
There's potential in a pure GW list that banks on dork -> 3 drop. With double thalias, you're also capable of locking down the opponent while eating away with a small army.
Agree with everything you've said. My list I've posted could very easily cut red and go to straight GW and be successful I'd think. I'm on 3/3 Thalia Split, Sigarda, and Teeg. Other than miracles I've been pretty successful with the listQuote:
Originally Posted by Warden
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
All GOOD list run Teeg, I don't know who wouldn't run Teeg with storm and miracles being some
of the best decks in the format. The reason to play black is DRS, not playing it gives you a huge disadvantage. It would be hard to close games without him. Sigarda seems great I just never play anything other than KOTR to keep my curve low and more consistent.
Warden,
Keep in mind I am not running Teeg in main because the guys I am playing with don't run anything it would be good against. I would definitely run it main and one in the side going to some sort of real event. It's just a meta call for the small group of people I am playing with, none of which are playing Miracles.
P.S. Karakas came in today. So close to finishing the deck!
You said someone in your group is on High Tide? G. Teeg is great in that matchup. They generally have to cast either Turnabout or Time Spiral to start really going off, and Teeg stops both. Sure, they have the answer in game 1 of Wish-->Wipe Away, but he's definitely a pain for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vervandi
I'll definitely keep that in mind, thanks muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Seraphix
Played a couple blessed alliance tonight in my sideboard. It seems like a decent card. Got to kill a Marit Lage with it. Unfortunately my opponent made another the next turn and I died a couple turns after that because the alliance gained me 4 life too. Idk. Card seems pretty playable. Life gain, non targeted removal for true name or lage or even just a delver, hell even combat tricks.
Been doing well with my list recently, 4-0'd my last two local weekly events. Similar list I posted last page. Went up to 3 Abrupt Decay in the main and I love it - the swamp has been pulling it's weight towards casting them as well.
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
SB
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Choke
1 Sylvan Library
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
Pretty sure I don't want new Thalia or big drops or anything, just keeping it sleek and simple for the most part. Surgical has been good to me, feel like it really improves our lands matchup especially when combined with already having Shaman and Ooze. Has game against combo as well and it's just nice having instant speed interaction as a G/W deck, especially for 0 mana.
I've actually been goldfishing with various builds. If possible, I'd love to hear your logic about Thalia 2.0 before tomorrow morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascalyote
The times I included her in the deck, the opening lines of play were insane. However, the list needs to adapt. I've been at a crossroads of "do I go Decays or Thalia"....as @Vervandi appears to use the shell I like. I can't figure out if I like 2-3x Thalia 2.0 more than 2-3x Abrupt Decay.
I've been playing a Bant deck with 7 dorks and new Thalia and she has been pulling her weight. She makes wasteland insane and is really good against Eldrazi. If you can get a wasteland machine going and your opponent is playing fetches, watch out. I definitely think she is worth a slot here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
Regarding new Thalia it's mostly a matter of there's too many good cards for this deck and you're going to have to make sacrifices along the way - I like her, cool artwork and character too. So many cool cards I want to play like Sigarda, Planeswalkers, etc. but alas they don't fit.
The cards people are playing new Thalia instead of seem to be either the abrupt decays or the stoneforge package, but those are better against more decks I feel, and are better against miracles (and why would I want to make my miracles matchup worse). Stoneforge is a source of card advantage in a deck that lacks it. I used to have decays in the board but it literally almost came in every matchup (except storm or something - but new Thalia isn't exactly stomping on that deck either) so it's just in the maindeck now and I haven't regretted putting it there.
I don't think we need new Thalia to make Wasteland good because we already have 8 copies of Knight to do that, and eldrazi is going to have much more problems with an established Knight than a Thalia (especially because her body doesn't handle their actual threats), however I admit Sword of x/y is a feel bad in the matchup (though decay hits mimic/jitte/chalice to turn on plow, and some other stuff)
Not the best person at describing my reasoning but there it is - no pro or anything so if you feel you can make a list and rock new Thalia than you do you, she's a cool card and would love to see more of her around tbh.
@Maharis,
New Thalia is much better in Bant because old Thalia is way more appropriate to Maverick and as Rascalyote stated, there are better options for the cost for Maverick.
Hi,
I'm looking to build into Maverick as I love the feeling of GWx decks, and my LGS has a very strong legacy scene in which I'd like to play.
Being new to the format, I obviously don't have any duals, wastelands or most staples, I'm looking to build the deck progressively with budget options (Shocks instead of duals, more lands to offset the loss of Wastelands).
Here's the list I've come up with which seems to be the most budget friendly while still being the play decently and learn the deck more and more:
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Swamp
3 Temple Garden
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Choke
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Pithing Needle
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Zealous Persecution
Do you have any suggestions to improve the mana-base, maybe some better creatures (regarding Thalia, Heretic Cathar maybe), including the Depths/Stage combo or a better sideboard.
I'm on iPhone so this will be brief before I drive.
Played Maverick for the first time in months. Felt soooo good.
7 rounds today at Cuse.
I'm sitting 4-0-1 through 5 rounds. Was 4th seed at that time. I can't draw to make t8 so I have to play. I lose in 3 to the eventual 1-seed. I go into final round at 4-1-1 needing a win and can't beat shard less. Game 1 I run through him misplacing. Game 2 he toxic D's for 7 and I cannot comeback against his ridiculous top decks. Game 3 I have to mull to 5 due to "7 card no lands" and "6 cards no lands". He had the god 7 vs my poor 5. I'm frustrated I felt the my momentum leave me but also VERY pleased I can be on hiatus and not practice only to land 27th (plus was in contention for T8 the final 2 rounds). New Thalia is ridiculous. Decays were okay. SFM was pretty much MVP against my bracket all day. Worst case she drew out force of will pitching something important of theirs. I'll take 27th because I really shouldn't be salty. I had a lot of luck getting to where I finished.
So let's talk about this guy:
http://static.starcitygames.com/www/...6Preview01.png
Green Sun's Zenith is one of my favorite cards but between this and the new Thalia I think it might be time to explore some alternative builds.
4 DRS
4 Hierarch
4 Thalia GoT
4 Recruiter of the Guard
3 Knight
3 Thalia HC
2 QPM
2 Scooze
2 SFM
4 STP
2 equips
2 Sylvan Library
2 Abrupt Decay
22 lands inc. 4 wasteland
That's the obvious way to go. I think with 8 dorks Eldritch Evolution or Natural Order is also a possibility but they don't play great with old Thalia.
Why not both . . . with both it would seem that you would be incredibly consistent.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis