[Deck] Non-LED Based Dredge/Ichorid Combo

This is the deck I will probally bring at the next tournament :
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 Undiscovered Paradise

4 Putrid Imp
2 Tireless Tribe
4 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
1 Flame-kin Zealot
1 Cephalid Sage
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba

4 Bridge from Below
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Dread Return
3 Firestorm

My meta has many aggro deck such as merfolk, and got many control, where I need the firestorm to start the dredge engine game 1. Not a lot of combo, so I don't really want to run the 4th therapy, and I cut a tireless tribe for the fire storm.

My Sideboard will be :
4 Pithing Needle (I prefer running these then Null Rod because I don't like being vunerable to spell snare / daze / wasteland)
2 Ray of the relevation
2 Wishpmare
3 Ancient Grudge (versus Dragon Stompy, explosives..)
2 Chain of vapors
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Ancestor's chosen

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimirynk

Edit: I was wondering what you guys bring in and what you take out vs goblins(3color)?

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Running my new build that has the 2/2 thug split, 2 sages, 3 returns, and 2 breakthrough. I'd go -1 thug, -1 sage, -1 return, -1 careful study (this would be -2 study if i still ran 3 breakthrough) for 3 needles and 1 ancient grudge or 1 chain of vapor (for random stuff like lotv if ever). ^^

Ive tested this list against gwu thresh earlier and it seems to be running fairly well, I haven't been missing the 3rd breakthrough and the 2 sages have been MVP as usual. I configured this deck to be a tad slower and more consistent especially for blue decks, Im still going to test this against faster decks like red burn, gobs, and see if it can keep pace with them.

// Lands 14
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Tarnished Citadel

// Sorcery 13
2 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
3 Dread Return

// Instants 2
2 Darkblast


// Enchantments 4
4 Bridge from Below

// Creatures 27
2 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Narcomoeba
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Putrid Imp
3 Tireless Tribe
3 Ichorid

// Sideboard: 15
SB: 1 Reveillark
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation
SB: 3 Wispmare
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void, 1 Ancient Grudge/3 meta slots
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Chain of Vapor

After testing my board:
4 ancient grudge
4 chain of vapor
4 pithing needle
2 ray of revelation
1 inkwell leviathan


I'm in love with 4 ancient grudges, they come in over needle in all the match ups were I would side them in.

It makes hands infinitely better due to the fact you don't have to mulligan into your answers, you just slow roll players and therapy their hand. The only thing you have to worry about is a play ripping a relic/crypt but in the first 3/4 turn you usually either win/set up a fatty creature/zombie hord and a crypt/relic won't matter.

might end up cutting x needles and maybe x covs.

@jimirynk: Im a little iffy about using grudges over needles vs crypt/relic. The point of using needle is to prevent the opponent from ripping their crypt or in some cases forcing them to rip it early. Dredging into grudge to kill off their crypts would still make them able to crypt off our gy which is not really what we want to do though because we still need losing stuff. We can cast it but having to wait for two mana timewalks you too much. I run 1 grudge because i dont have the 4th needle and there are a lot of naughts and ensnaring bridges randomly showing up in sb cards these days. I may run 2 grudges in addition to 3 needles for artifact hate because its great to be diverse in answers too. Slow rolling against non-blue decks that run artifact hate isn't really that good because they are more or less capable of keeping pace with this deck. Grudges are great but i wouldn't run them in place of needles though. ^^

Edit: I'm currently testing between Inkwell Leviathan vs Reveillark at the sb slot for the beater vs blue deck. Any thoughts on this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bum_man

Edit: I'm currently testing between Inkwell Leviathan vs Reveillark at the sb slot for the beater vs blue deck. Any thoughts on this?

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Inkwell is better vs. blue they can't get it off the table or block it, I side out lark for inkwell because he's such a beast.

Hey guys, this sunday i have my 40-man tournament which i will be playing with this deck :wink: . Im trying to get my sb updated a little, and get 1 paradise for my maindeck. Could someone please help me with what to board cause i'm a little worried about that. I'm going to try to get the sideboard posted by Jimirynk(sorry if i spelled it wrong :frown: ) but im never sure what to board out against what decks.

Thanks, Maarten

@maarten: The opening post has a summary of basic sideboarding strategies for the deck. If that isn't enough then, what decks are you expecting to see and which of them are problematic per se? ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bum_man

@maarten: The opening post has a summary of basic sideboarding strategies for the deck. If that isn't enough then, what decks are you expecting to see and which of them are problematic per se? ^^

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Ok :P i see now :). So you usually take out some breakthrough's and 1 sage, 1 DR (except if ur boarding an other DR target in i guess). But how about the merfolk match?? Could you perhaps make a list of what cards u may NEVER board out? that would be awesome :laugh:

thanks, Maarten

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1maarten1

Ok :P i see now :). So you usually take out some breakthrough's and 1 sage, 1 DR (except if ur boarding an other DR target in i guess). But how about the merfolk match?? Could you perhaps make a list of what cards u may NEVER board out? that would be awesome :laugh:

thanks, Maarten

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I looked at your list, do try to make the 3rd thug into darkblast for more consistency in seeing them.

You actually have more slots you can go -3 breakthrough, -1 blast, -1 Return, -1 FKZ for 4 needles and a ray of revelation for their propaganda, and may be inkwell, if not don't take out the FKZ. ^^

Just take out breakthrough vs blue decks, take-out either one of the two thugs vs red or any black variant or one of the two blasts vs blue. Vs Rock or any black variant try to side-in Chains first to see if they have leyline, jailer or whatever.

I'm happy with this at the moment:

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 Undiscovered Paradise

4 Putrid Imp
4 Golgari Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug(having 12 dredgers is amazing and its ichorid food)
3 Tireless Tribe
2 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame Kin Zealot
3 Dread Return
4 Ichorid
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Narcomoeba
4 Bridge From Below

SB:
4 Null Rod
2 Pithing Needle
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Wispmare
3 Firestorm
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Reveillark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bum_man

I looked at your list, do try to make the 3rd thug into darkblast for more consistency in seeing them.

You actually have more slots you can go -3 breakthrough, -1 blast, -1 Return, -1 FKZ for 4 needles and a ray of revelation for their propaganda, and may be inkwell, if not don't take out the FKZ. ^^

Just take out breakthrough vs blue decks, take-out either one of the two thugs vs red or any black variant or one of the two blasts vs blue. Vs Rock or any black variant try to side-in Chains first to see if they have leyline, jailer or whatever.

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Okay, so vs blue u want ur pithing needles//ray of revelations in, vs black chains and maybe needles for deeds, vs red u might want ur inkwell in and for the rest???? I think i'll be fine :wink: thanks alot,

Maarten

@Maarten: my last post confused even me so to be clearer:

Vs Blue-You need needles and inkwell here
Vs Merfolk and BANT-Apart from the the ones above, you'd probably play rays too because these decks play propaganda apart from hate.
Vs Red-You don't need the inkwell that much. All you need in this match-up generally are the Needles and the Darkblasts for their fanatics and the like.
Vs Black Variants-Chain and Darkblasts Game 2 to see if they have leyline or not. If they have leyline or wheel of sun and moon you can opt to replace the chains with wispmares or rays. Darkblasts are key in this match-up because of the possibility of Jailer post-board.

Hope this helps. Good Luck in the tournament. ^^ Post how you faired after. :laugh:

@Joe_C: How is your list against fast decks like red burn, goyf sligh, goblins, affinity, etc.? Im playing a list that is just 3 cards different from your list, Im just wondering how you did against them especially pre and post-board. I haven't tested against these yet, just looking for your experience regarding this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bum_man

@Maarten: my last post confused even me so to be clearer:

Vs Blue-You need needles and inkwell here
Vs Merfolk and BANT-Apart from the the ones above, you'd probably play rays too because these decks play propaganda apart from hate.
Vs Red-You don't need the inkwell that much. All you need in this match-up generally are the Needles and the Darkblasts for their fanatics and the like.
Vs Black Variants-Chain and Darkblasts Game 2 to see if they have leyline or not. If they have leyline or wheel of sun and moon you can opt to replace the chains with wispmares or rays. Darkblasts are key in this match-up because of the possibility of Jailer post-board.

Hope this helps. Good Luck in the tournament. ^^ Post how you faired after. :laugh:

@Joe_C: How is your list against fast decks like red burn, goyf sligh, goblins, affinity, etc.? Im playing a list that is just 3 cards different from your list, Im just wondering how you did against them especially pre and post-board. I haven't tested against these yet, just looking for your experience regarding this.

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Thanks :). I will try to get a small report asap!

maarten

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bum_man

@Joe_C: How is your list against fast decks like red burn, goyf sligh, goblins, affinity, etc.? Im playing a list that is just 3 cards different from your list, Im just wondering how you did against them especially pre and post-board. I haven't tested against these yet, just looking for your experience regarding this.

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I havent had the opportunity to test much lately. MWS hasnt been working for me and I dont have a local group to play with at the moment. When MWS picks up again if I play these matches I will take notes as much as possible. I would say Reveillark is good against sligh/goblins since they can nail bridges out of out graves easily enough. Pretty much trying to win fast is our best option

Also, ancestor's chosen is really solid against aggro. Most red aggro cant deal with a 4/4 first striker, even if they kill it, we can bring it back for more life gain again.

Testing this board when I have a chance:

3 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
3 Unmask(just to help resolve rod, doubles as awesomeness against combo)
2 Wispmare
1 Chain of Vapor(may become a flashback spell)
3 Firestorm
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Reveillark

@ everyone.
The point of this deck is to make sure YOU WIN GAME ONE.
If you can cut 1 card from the main deck to help your troublesome match ups(goyfsligh, merfolk, goblins, affinity) why wouldn't you?
I run lark in my maindeck which gives me an advantage game 1 vs otherwise 50-50 match ups..
Do to this fact I win a lot of games with dredge.
I'm not saying if your not running lark your bad, what I'm saying is if you beat every deck but gwu thresh and you side in a inkwell and stomp them.
RUN IT IN YOUR MAIN.
Save room in your board for 4x's.

So please cut 1 card from all your decks and make it something to give you an edge on iffy game 1s.

Also if you care about this deck and you take it seriously try 4 ancient grudges and test it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimirynk

@ everyone.
The point of this deck is to make sure YOU WIN GAME ONE.
If you can cut 1 card from the main deck to help your troublesome match ups(goyfsligh, merfolk, goblins, affinity) why wouldn't you?
I run lark in my maindeck which gives me an advantage game 1 vs otherwise 50-50 match ups..
Do to this fact I win a lot of games with dredge.
I'm not saying if your not running lark your bad, what I'm saying is if you beat every deck but gwu thresh and you side in a inkwell and stomp them.
RUN IT IN YOUR MAIN.
Save room in your board for 4x's.

So please cut 1 card from all your decks and make it something to give you an edge on iffy game 1s.

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On the contrary, this deck is about winning games 2 and 3. Dredge has been the strongest combo deck in the format after flash got the axe. Its unbelievable resiliency to basic disruption strategies and its unorthodox yet fast approach to winning makes it a monster pre-board. This deck doesn't have a lot of problems in winning game 1 because most of the time you can just pull-off the combo and win before they do. Replacing cards in the deck so as too weaken the combo pre-board for a card like say Inkwell Leviathan for blue match-ups is not a good plan.
Let's say Inkwell improves your blue match-up, and you board in inkwell in place of a sage. It will improve your blue match-up (which you already have above 65-35 chance of beating) for the price of making the combo inconsistent and a tad slower. More often than not you'll need to race almost all, if not all the opponents your up against. That means by running mainboard inkwell you further improve your already good match-up in exchange of slowing down making your game against most other match-ups inconsistent.

This goes the same for Reveillark, You replace sage with a lark against goblins, affinity, etc. It does improve those match-ups relatively but it slows you down which makes other match-ups like say combo much worse. This is the reason why I prefer running darkblasts over thugs is for this match-up. It solves the problem creatures while at the same time it doesn't slow you down because its a dredger. You can now combo-off and win against them at a consistent turn 3 or 4 unlike lark where you completely move to a different gameplan.

All i wanted to say is game 1s are probably the only thing that all dredge decks are good at. This is why it is important to test a particular build against a lot of other decks to see if they do well against all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bum_man

On the contrary, this deck is about winning games 2 and 3.

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I agree 100% but you still need to win game 1.
Having 1 extra thug or 1 extra breakthrough isn't whats making you guys win games 1 its the deck it's very strong.
I run 1 lark and 1 sage as I said before to almost guaranty game 1 even vs. your problematic match ups.
If you think winning games 2 and 3 is hard have fun trying to win both after you lose game one to a mogg fanatic.

Hey guys, i took the 11th place in my tournament this day. I had a chance making T8, but i made some playmistakes and had 1 really stupid paring, i'll try writing a full report tomorrow with my list and sb and stuff :smile:
Now im going to bed.

Night

Parcher suggested Greater Gargadon as a SB card for LED ichorid. In actuality, its not a bad choice.... I am trying a playset in my board myself.

@ Joe c.
Came in first today at a tournament playing my list.

I beat landstill twice and aggro loam.
I only sided in 4 ancient grudges all day, just saying.
If anyone interested ask questions.