Sorry, I can't agree with Oust, Sorcery speed is too bad IMO, why not run Path?
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Sorry, I can't agree with Oust, Sorcery speed is too bad IMO, why not run Path?
Vs. the decks he would side it in Oust seems better, especially as a Lackey solution. But it depends on the Meta, with less Goblins PtE gets better.
Thnx Tao for the reply.
I'd never like to give my opponent basics especially goblins. It also counteracts with the LD subtheme.
I agree mother of runes is awesome. I just dont see it's use vs Merfolk and perish. What does mother do against perish?
I got this in the side for now:
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [WL] Null Rod
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 [ROE] Oust
SB: 1 [IN] Dueling Grounds
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [ROE] Lone Missionary
How effective is a 1 off macabre without ways to recur it? Would jotun grunt be nice recycling cards?
I enjoyed having the Iona combo for g1 and occasionally on g2. She still steals wins vs. random chunks of the field.
I think it might be particularly good against Ub merfolk. They have green sweepers, but are low on the lord count which means they generally do not kill as fast. Iona shuts down the blue beasts and dodges the sweep. After you play her, figure out if they have enough to kill you, if not, go get pridemage asap as this will stop Jitte or vial.
Mom is still good against Ub folk as she blocks any creature all day and messes up submerge. Especially if they get a jitte but no flyers, as she prevents counters from adding up.
At least she stays alive so that not everything dies, a board of 2 MoR, Goyf and KotR is much less vulnerable to Perish than one with only Green creatures. Merfolk has become a much tougher matchup recently with the addition of Coralhelm Commander first and then Perish. Still favorable, but certainly no bye anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waikiki
Disrupt them once, then kill them before they can recover, that is the plan. This deck does not intent to go to the very late game. But you play the Witness, so you can easily use the Faerie even a second time. If you have reasons to use another engine (expecting Extirpates on VeVi for example) I would say use Genesis or Squee, not Grunt. No experience which one is better in SB, with Genesis you can grind them down them while Squee is much quicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waikiki
Played a local tournament this weekend: 17 players, 5 rounds of swiss. I finished 1st place going 5-0.
Hereīs my list:
// Mana
3 [u] Savannah
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [LG] Karakas
5 [7E] Forest
1 [MI] Plains
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [US] Gaeaīs Cradle
// Creatures
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
3 [7E] Birds of Paradise
3 [FNM] Mother of Runes
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
3 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
2 [WW] Stoneforge Mystic
1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
// Removal and Engine
4 [u] Swords to Plowshares
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 [P3] Loyal Retainers
SB: 1 [CF] Path to Exile
SB: 1 [WW] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [JP] Maze of Ith
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
I played against:
Dredge: 2-0
Zoo: 2-1
UG Survival Madness: 2-0
UB Merfolk: 2-1
URb Dreadstill: 2-0
The list is so much fun to play with the Swords/Mystics and I really like it as is right now. I made it kind of a mix between a GW-Maverick.dec and the "traditional" GW-Survival.dec. This way the deck becomes even less dependent on SotF as it already was before, due to the powerful equipment package and Stoneforge Mystic.
I made some minor changes to the manabase as well: adding another basic forest and the 4th Wasteland. Not playing a full set of Wastelands doesnīt feel right anymore. They are just so good.
I played the deck with the inclusion of SM+equipments at 3 events so far:
Local "Haßloch" tournament, finishing 7th out of 53 players (4-1-1)
German Legacy Champs, finishing 30th out 204 players (6-3)
and this weekend, where I won with 5-0.
Actually, this weekend was the very first time, that I played without Iona/LR in my maindeck. And surprisingly, I didnīt board them in during any of those five rounds. Iīm not quite sure how I feel about this right now. Not playing those cards seems kind of strange - but besides MonoR Burn or some random mono coloured deck I guess I wouldnīt board them in any more =^.^=....- especially since people started running Karakas all over...
For now, it feels much better to me, running just more "gas" in those two slots. Thus, I added another Mystic and the second Sword. And honestly: I probably wonīt go back. Having only one "dead" draw in the deck (Squee) also makes Mulligans less frequently (and thanks to Birds, now Iīm even able to cast Squee, if I need an endless chump blocker^^).
I want to add some thoughts about my Sideboard, too:
Maze of Ith: I boarded in Maze EVERY single game this weekend (and as far as I remember I also did so during the last two tournaments). That card is sooo!! good against any kind of creature deck that Iīm probably going to add another copy of it to the board and am reconsidering a maindeck slot for it. Together with KotR even better!
Enlightened Tutor: Came in also quite often and provides much flexibility by creating virtual space in the sideboard.
Ethersworn Canonist: Surprisingly good against UG Survival Madness! I hear Vengevine requires casting TWO creature spells... ;P, also tutorable with ET.
EE: Just great! Won two matches against Zoo, where I blew up his entire board. Really nobody expected me to have this card, thus I really benefitted from surprising factor. My opponents overextended their board several times and were left with no chance after I ripped EE! Even better with Birds! I really consider running ET+EE maindeck, since they are so strong in presenting solutions to so many board situations.
I also want to point out that I really like the single Scryb Ranger (Iīm even tempted to run a 2nd copy)! Obviously pretty cool combined with KotR or MoR, but also great against Coralhelm Commander (which weakened the Merfolk MatchUp quite a bit imo, due to its flying ability, thus I wanted a decent answer to this), Vendilion Clique(!), Rhox War Monk and other blue stuff. And obviously another flyer with built in protection to wear equipments!
I think right now, there are many ways, that one can play a G/W dec - but to me, this one is the most enjoyable!
congratulations on your finish. Could you give some detail about how the matchups went? What where the key plays to win or was it a walk in the park.
Thanks! Since I wasnīt planning to write a report, I didnīt take any notes. Still, hereīs what I recall from the different matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waikiki
Round 1 against Dredge. I go firstand open with Hierarch, 2nd turn survival, activate for gaddock, then KotR=>Cradle, StoneforgeMystic SoLaS, Win. Opponent leads with Careful Study, dredges Moeba+ Dread Return+ Sth. irrelevant, drops Putrid Imp, attacks a few times with Ichorids, but fails to dredge any Bridges so thereīs no real danger for me.
2nd game I have Bird+Survival turn two again (actually now, I recall sideboarding Iona/LR in - but this really was the only match), with Retainers in hand I go for Iona, drop it to fetch Faerie Macabre, play + sac Retainers, Iona hits play, Faerie removes two Bridges the following turn and I proceed to win two turns later.
Round 2 against Zoo. I go first again. Drop Hierarch/Bird. Opp. drops Nacatl. I plow it and play Survival.He doesnīt have Qasali, so I chain Finks after Finks and thereīs no chance he can ever win this. ;)
Game 2 I mull to 4 => I loose. Game three, Iīm stuck on two lands for a while, plow his first thread. Mother in play. He trys to bolt my bird, I path in response to get my third land, then drop Kitchen Finks. Later I draw survival, get another two finks, he plays triple goyf and qasali. I go eot Enlightened for EE, blow his whole board and three Finks + KotR + SoFaI take it home.
Round 3 against UG Madness Survival. I go first. Forest, Hierarch. He does the same. I drop KotR,resolves. He plays Wild mongrel, discard Rootwalla, discard Venegvine, attack for 5 (KotR is 4/4 at that moment, so I donīt block obv). On my turn I play Survival which gets forced. He plays nothing and attacks with Vengevine. I block with KotR and activate it before damage (somehow he didnīt see that coming, so obviously a very bad play of his), Vengevine dies. I draw Jitte, play it, it resolves. Attack with Knight => he concedes.
Game 2 He goes Forest, Hierarch. I drop MoR. He drops land => attack. At that point, I knew already that he must have kept a very mediocre hand with no pressure since he didnīt play anything on turn 2. So I proceed to drop Hierarch, then Kitchen Finks (still no pressure on his side),then aim for KotR which gets Forced. But since he seems to draw nothing but lands and rootwallas, Kitchen Finks take it home (protected by MoR)
Round 4 against Merfolk. Iīm not sure who went first in this match. What I do remember is, that I opened on Hierarch, he on Vial. I add two MoR to the board, which both resolve. I try Survival, which gets forced. Meanwhile he drops some Silvergills and LoA into play which I block with MoR, so not much damage gets through. I think later on I resolve a KotR and also drop a Bird. He vials Coralhelm Commander and plays Jitte. But thanks to Birds of Paradise, thereīs no way he can get any counters to his equipment, since Birds always block Coralhelm with protection blue. At some point of the game after we stall for a couple of turns I resolve Stoneforge Mytsic which fetches SoFaI. From there itīs only a couple of minutes til I win.
Game two is very close.My board is: Tarmogoyf+ Jitte+ 4 lands+Cradle, my hand KotR+Hierach (which I both drew for this turn, one via Canopy eot) His board is silvergill, coralhelm (level4), Mutavault, LoA(still summonsick).We traded some creatures during last turns. He has one card in hand. Iīm on four life and had to use Jitte counters to survive his Coralhelm. Heīs on 5. (Goyf is 5/6). So I attack with goyf, he chumps with LoA. I plan to drop both creatures and equip Jitte to Hierarch. Unfortunately his last card in hand is daze, so I have to tap cradle to pay for hierarch but am one mana short to equip it with jitte. So Hierarch can only chump and I donīt get additional counters on Jitte. I draw no solution on my turn and we proceed to game 3.
I lead with Forest, Bird/Hierarch. he drops Vial I guess. The main point of that game is a situation where he misblocks my goyf (he didnīt see the exalted trigger) and looses two of his creatures in the process. He doesnīt draw the solution he would have needed (namely perish) and conceeds to a resolved Jitte.
Round 5 against Dreadstill. I go first. Drop land Bird/Hierarch. Survival gets countered. He plays Dreadnought/stifle. I have double plow (or Plow/ Qasali). One of them resolves. Also, I resolve a KotR who takes it home.
Game 2 I manascrew him with double waste. I also resolve Survival and proceed to win from there on.
I've played 2 tourneys, one on sun (35 players) and the other on mon (17 players) with this version:
Sunday
// Lands
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
5 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
3 Horizon Canopy
// Creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Vengevine
1 Basking Rootwalla
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Loyal Retainers
// Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Survival of the Fittest
// Sideboard
SB: 4 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
Monday
MD
-1 Savannah +1Canopy
SB
Im not sure, I think -1 Path + 1 Crypt or maybe -1 Teeg + 1 Crypt
I went 4-1 on Sun (GW Sur 0-2, DDFLT 2-1, Soldiers 2-0, New Horizons 2-0, Dragon Stompy 2-0) and 3-1 on Mon (Fish 2-1, Elves 1-2, Dragon Stompy 2-1, Ichorid 2-1).
This version is more like Survival Elves with an more valid aggro plan, than like the original GW Sur, you resolve SotF or FS, combo and win.
I'm super satisfied with Shamans and VV so far, they enhance the control mu and increase the threat density in general.
Well, its quite late and I'am to lazy to explain anything right now, but feel free to ask.
didn't you feel the canonist counteract with vengevine too much ?
1.) Isn't 5 basic forests a bit overkill, or is more basic land green needed with Fauna Shaman?
1.) 2 Pridemages seem low to me, even with 4 FS. How did this work out for you?
You can still go for 1 VV less and cast Canonist as the 2nd critter...Quote:
Originally Posted by Waikiki
Just kidding, I board 2 VV out vs DDNT and even 3 vs TES (+Faerie), if I get SotF online, I simply survival for more hate hears/Mother/Iona, since combo isn't playing E.Truth or R.River.
I think I'll split Teeg and EC 3/3, since Canonist is better vs. storm in general.
1a. I never had problems getting w mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp2293
You play rarely more than 1 (g)w spell each turn, but on the other hand you don't like gettin wasted in the early game, especially vs. goblins and fish.
1b. Yes, you really need more g mana to fuel SotF and FS.
FS is like playing Worldly Tutor each turn, or at least for 2 turns, if you go for Iona and you really want as much mana as you can get in the first 4 turns.
And I don't play Karakas, since Im normaly the only one in Bochum, who is playing Survival, would do it on bigger tourneys with a more "random" meta.
2. I had the same concerns, so I started with 22 lands and 3 QPM, and had to add the 23th land again because of the curve/8SotF, qpm is by far the wakest card you play.
The difference betwenn drawing a QPM in the first 3 turns with 3 MD and 2MD is like 10% (~40 vs ~30), and it matters only if your opponent drops 1st turn vial, or 2nd turn CB/SotF, plus you have FS now to combat CB.
Boath matches I've lost were quite bad luck.
I've thrown g1 in the mirror away (well, that wasn't that unusual) and got screwed by a single Wasteland in g2 .
Vs. Elves I got screwed in g2 keeping a 2 land, hand with Goyf, QPM, Mother, FS and Knight, he simply dopped all the manaelves and casted Warcaller kicker 3 in turn 4 or 5, in g3 I had to mull to 4, but I would sill have won boath games, if I had drawn any of my 7 "StP"...
How strong is Mother of Runes from the people who have played her? I haven't put her in yet because it seems to be against the aggro attitude of the deck, but I'm seeing almost every list here running 3-4 of her. What all scenarios do you use her for?
She's simply awsome, Stalling the Board until you find something, protecting you beater from Stp and/or other removel or just give your big Knight protection get through the last damage. At least nearly every deck needs to kill her before she loses her summoningsickness or it's a 2:1 trade and many rounds of protection until he find two removel.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShaun
I have been in quite a few situations like that, with mother setting up a knight kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigero
She is not against the aggro attitude of the deck, GW Survival is not just trying to race. It is about keeping constant pressure on your opponent and dominating the board with cost effective threats. MoR is one of those and in the current Metagame with Zoo, Merfolk and Goblins I wouldn't play any other number than 4.
Imagine being on draw vs. Zoo: They play T1 Nacatl, you play MoR. Then they will have to decide to kill it right away and have no 2-drop / a secodn one-drop instead or have her block Nacatl next turn AND eat a Burn spell. That are 6 life she saved you with card parity for only one Mana. On the play she is of course insane.
Vs. Merfolk with their lack of spot removal she turns combat into a nightmare for them.
Vs. Goblins she is a potential Lackey blocker on the draw. Not the most reliable, but certainly better than nothing. In the later stages of the game she also makes the combat very tough for them.
Vs. Countertop she forces them to use their Sword on T1, either messing up their Countertop timing or making their Sword useless for the rest of the game (so your Knights and Vengevine will live anyway) and vs. Combo she protects your hatebears from Bounce/Removal.
The only matchups in which she is underwhelming are Enchantress, Landstill and Staxx, but those are rarely played anyway and vs. LS she still trades with a Sword.
So I played GW survival in the PTAmsterdam side event going 4-1.
2-0 Goblins
0-2 Naya Control
2-1 UG Madness
2-1 Zoo
2-1 4c CB top
The deck was really awesome and I had alot of puzzling to do to getting wins. There are really some hard choices to be made ;) My only loss was just bad play and some unlucky stuff. G1 I should have mulled and game 2 after cycling all my canopies I still draw land.
After several weeks reading this thread silently because my English isn't the best on these boards, I've been wanting to play this deck more and more in a Tourney around here.
So I played a very similar list from Venice's #326 for a Top2 in a 45 Tourney man. I ruined the mana base a little just trying to fit 2 Rhox War Monk which were quite relevant in some games. As Monks are my only 2 blue cards in my 61/15 I'm posting this in the GW thread instead of the SurvivalBant one. I never had problems casting them thanks to the 7 Birds/Tropical. That high number of Birds was something I wasn't sure enough initially but now I'm totally sold on them because they enable so many powerful T2 plays. Finally I sleeved up:
GWu Survival
//Mana
3 [R] Savannah
1 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [ZEN] Wooded Foothills
1 [LG] Karakas
3 [UNH] Forest
1 [UNH] Plains
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [US] Gaeaīs Cradle
// Creatures
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
3 [4E] Birds of Paradise
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
2 [WW] Stoneforge Mystic
2 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
// Removal and Engine
4 [u] Swords to Plowshares
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [TE] Choke
SB: 3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 [P3] Loyal Retainers
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
Pairings were:
2-0 Brad Nelson's GBW Junk
2-0 Monoblack
0-0 Goblins (he is a Teammate)
0-2 UBG Landstill (this seemed almost unwinnable to me and never saw Choke :(
2-0 4c CounterTop
2-1 UB Depths featuring Dark Confidant, StifleNought and cheap countermagic.
Top8: 2-1 GRB AggroLoam (Pulses, Confidants, Goyfs, Terravores, Crushers, Chalices)
Top4: 2-0 BW Pox
Final: 1-2 TES
My highlight of the day was winning G1 to TES (LOL) thanks to double Monks and him going for 12 Goblins on Turn 3 (not a good hand after several cantrips). The deck performed extremely good all day long so props to Venice for developing it. I also loved how whenever you don't have drawn/resolved Survival you aren't keeping crap in your hand in the form of Retainers or Iona. In fact I only boarded them against TES, Monoblack and AggroLoam and I was only able to Reanimate Iona against Monoblack. I'm still asking myself if it's worth these slots anymore because nowadays everybody has Karakas/2 colour removal or they simply can't do the job early enough.
I was really hoping the new Elspeth would be playable in this deck. Having her printed at 2ww, 1gw, 2gw could have found a spot MD or SB. Instead she is 3ww which is pretty much the nail in the coffin. Too bad.
The thirth match was just awesome. I must say you are a master piloting that deck, good games!Quote:
Originally Posted by Waikiki