I tested a list with 2 Moxes and some Gemstone Caverns, and ended up not liking either... Maybe it was just bad luck, but Mox did not convinced me...Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
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I tested a list with 2 Moxes and some Gemstone Caverns, and ended up not liking either... Maybe it was just bad luck, but Mox did not convinced me...Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
I didn't test Caverns but I really must convince you to play Chrome Mox :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
The card is just great, in any way it can be great. Tempo-boost and mana-fixing in general; Turn-1 Instigators; Daze-proof Lackeys. I even side it out whenever I side Pyrokinesis in, cause of the card disadvantage (and because most often you don't need that many land in MU where you need Kinesis).
Give it another try in a list with 4 Instigators and 3-4 Chieftains! Or: Give this list to your friend for the weekend:
//Lands [22]
4 Wasteland
16 Mountain
2 Chrome Mox
//Core [26]
...
//Others [12]
4 Chieftain
4 Instigator
4 Removal of your choice
//Sideboard
4 Chalice
3 Pyrokinesis
8 cards of your choice
I mean it: try it, PLEASE!
Just realized the tournament is only the other weekend.. but I can probably make him test it for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
But -2 Chiefain, +1 Squad, +1 removal.
Also, I need to find myself some Chrome Moxes... =p
Hey guys! Been lurking on this thread (actually the old one from about page 100) for months while getting the cards I needed for Goblins. I said I'd post when I got to the end.
I'm new to the format and I'm going to a Legacy event this Saturday. I've been playtesting against my friend's decks and otherwise have no idea what I'm getting myself into. I have no experience against Combo.
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
14 Mountain
26 Core
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Stingscourger
2 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Siege-Gang Commander
Sideboard
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mogg War Marshal
I'm going in against an unknown meta but have been told to expect 1 or 2 of everything...
I have what I'd need to splash G or B but don't like opening myself up to Wastelands and Stifle. Yesterday my build was Rg for Krosan Grip and Back to Nature but was told I'm worrying too much about my Enchantress matchup when it is unlikely I'll play it...
I decided to go with an aggressive mono-red build and let everyone else worry about dealing with Goblins rather than stressing out against certain deck types. Once I have some experience and a better knowledge of my local meta I'll consider splashing colors.
Is anything in my list glaringly wrong? Anything I'd be stupid not to change? I've learned a lot just from reading the posts in this thread (and the last one). Excellent Primer! You guys are very good at explaining your opinions rather than shouting them and I haven't noticed any trolls... just a couple of instigators =)
Just a few things I would change:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
- What's the reason for MD Chieftains? I'm guessing to combat Plague? With no MD Instigators to abuse the +1/+1, I'd relegate Chieftains to SB. Besides, games 2 and 3 is when Plague comes in, so you won't need Chieftains until then.
- SGC is awesome, but in your list with 22 lands, I'd say stick with 2. I know we all love Lackey >>> Commander, but Lackey triggers are unreliable, and opposing decks are better equipped than ever to deal with T1 Lackey. 3 seems too overkill and will probably result in more dead draws early on.
- I'm a big MWM fan, so I prefer my MWM's in the MD. They are just so good against fat creature decks, plus they power up Incinerator.
Otherwise, I like the rest of the maindeck.
I've been trying to work on a mono red SB myself. Tell me how yours works out.
@ Gobolord:
i tried your List this Sunday in Hassloch/Germany with ~50 Visitors. The list was similar to yours
I made an solid 3/3
Games I lost:
Round 1: Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils
I made Mulligan on 5 to get a Hand that seems a bit fast, cause i know what he's playing. He starts and finishs at Turn 2! Next Game i boarded in Chalice of the Void and either take Mulligan on 5 without seeing Lackey/Instigator or Chalice. I start slow, he has the 3rd Turn Kill...
Round 3: NO Bant
Game 1 i didn't get any Lackey or Instigator, so i saw an Turn3 Progenitus... no chance to race, GG. Game 2 same!
Round 4: Goblins
I have the Mirror, Game 1 she(yes!) has such things as Ringleader into Ringleader into Ringleader witch 2 Vials... she win. Game 2 I make some Action and stalls her till she has Goblin King... :/
Over all, in my first 4! Matchesi didnt get any Hands allowing me to make "Mountain, Lackey, GO" or something else...
I ruled against Aggro Loam, UGB *****, UWr Stiflenought.
Feelings about the list: Playing 4 Chieftains was great against Engineered Plague! I never had a Mox Start and the Time i had the Moxen, I wished i drew Lands! I also couldn't never use the Instigator, because i only drew him in lategame.
Anyhow, i will still try the list again, cause i think it has potential and perhabs i won't have DDFT on Round 1 and that bad draws in the next Time!
Actually he does run 3 SGCs: 2 in the regular 26 Core slots and 1 extra copy. This makes it reasonable to even run a full playset of Chieftains (because he wants to be aggressive). Then, however you should watch your manabase, because 8 colorless sources could clash with your frequent RR-manacosts.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherday
4 MD Stingscourger are also shouting for more Chieftains (because their 2/2-bodies can be used to attack)
I don't know wether the Tinkerer in MD is needed since you plan is to win before any worrysome artifacts enter the battlefield. You could think about putting him into SB.
I already knew he was playing 3 SGC, but I can see how my previous comment may have come off differently. I was just trying to say that adding a 3rd 5cc card doesn't necessarily make the deck more aggressive. About Chieftain, I'd be more supportive of MD chieftains if there was actually 16 red sources in the main, but yes, Haste + Stinger rules!
My bad, you are right. I just didn't read you former post properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherday
I didn't mean that 3 SGCs make his list aggressive (you are right with what you said about Lackeys unreliability) but 4 Chieftains do make his list aggressive.
What does everyone think is the right number of lands to play in a two-colored build with full sets of Wastes and Ports? I have been running 23 in my r/b list, but I recently changed to 22 because of losing games due to mana flooding. Do you think that 22 is enough to effectively play the mana denial game? So far I haven't had any problems with it.
I've been testing two black cards as late: Cabal Therapy and Mad Auntie. Both have been really good. I haven't been able to test Auntie too much since I'm only running one, but I like it alongside a singleton Chieftain. It is much easier to cast than Chieftain because you don't need to worry about the double red casting cost. It allows for "reusable" Piledrivers, "unlimited" chump blockers, and helps against Firespout and Zoo's burn.
Cabal Therapy has been awesome against so many decks, winning me so many games. I've brought it in against MUC, Landstill, Junk, Sneak and Show, Countertop, etc. Basically anything with enchantments, combo pieces, or firespouts. It can easily rip an opponent's hand apart in the first few turns, especially when played in conjunction with a full playset of MWM (like I am testing now).
double post again...
I've always played my R/g build with no less that 24 lands (4 Ports, 4 Wastes, 8 fetches,5 Mountains, 3 Taigas) with no trouble at all. I don't like to miss my land drops, and 16 red sources enable me to reliably cast a Warchief on turn 3 against non-Daze decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TossUsToLions
Just my personal opinion, but I'd say 23 lands is minimum for Gobs, I mean our curve goes up to 5cc for crying out loud.
I'd seriously try R/b, but I don't want to fork up the money for Badlands. I wish I could go back to when I bought my Wastelands and Ports for $10 each, and non-blue white-border dual lands and FoW's were going for $20-$25 each. Funny how THAT used to to "expensive" lol. Ok, getting off topic.
Has Vial Goblins lost its touch or has it just been under represented? I can't remember seeing a single list in any of the bunch of big Scg events.
If we were basing the DTB forum on current meta trends, vial gobbos would be out and Affinity would be in this forum. Thoughts?
I've been playing with 2 Chrome Moxen in the ADHD build for a while now. I really like it, although the opinions within our team are divided about it. But it's not only good for a turbo-boost start, I've also had situations where I just kept it on hand because I never wanted or needed to pitch a Goblin to it, but then I threw down a Ringleader wich netted a bunch of Goblins. Then I could play the Mox for an extra Piledriver FTW. I like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Check out this vid, it's by a teammate of mine who plays the deck for the first time on MTGO daily. Despite a few obvious playfails, it's a very informative video I think.
Team ADHD's Goblins in a MTGO Legacy Daily
Tourny Report!
I played in a ~20 man tourny last night with Rb goblins. Here's the details-
61 Cards
Artifacts
4 Aether Vial
Creatures
4 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
2 Warren Instigator
Tribal Sorceries
2 Warren Weirding
Basic Lands
6 Mountain
1 Swamp
Lands
1 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Rishadan Port
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
4 Pyrokinesis
2 Nature's Ruin
2 Perish
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Shattering Spree
1 Pulverize
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
R1 - Monored Goblins
G1) My opponent, while shuffling his deck, realized there were only 59 cards in it. I told him not to worry about it, that he could play with 59 or bring 1 in from his sideboard. He opted to pull out his binder and grab the card he needed. In doing so I couldn't help but see that he flipped to the Red section and grabbed a goblin. I new it was the mirror so I mulled to 5 looking for removal or a blocker. I found a Gempalm and kept. I never feel good about making informed mulligans G1, but when your opponent tips their hand to you you cannot help but make judgements based on that. I was on the draw. My opponent went Mountain, Vial, go. Thank God. I played Lackey. My opponent missed his land drop and his 1 drop off of Vial, and the game was mine from there.
I sided Weirding and Instigator out, 4 Pyros in.
G2) Much like G1, only my opponent didn't have a 1-drop at all, and I had multiple Gempalms.
1-0
2-0
R2 - Player X - Natural Order/Show and Tell
G1) I'm on the draw and keep an opening 7 of 3 Aether Vials, 3 lands, and a Gempalm. I know it's a risky keep (and in fact I'm certain I'll lose this game while we're playing), but Player X keeps an equally weird but potential filled hand. By the time turn 4 rolls around Player X has 2 Hierarchs, 2 Birds of Paradise, a Dryad Arbor, and he's hitting me for 2 a turn with exalted Birds. I have Vials at 3, 2, and 1. I hit Matron into Ringleader and start filling my board. Player X then casts Natural Order into Terrastadon to blow up his excess lands and give himself a horde of 3 3/3s. By this time I'm able to Vial a SGC and Chieftain into play, so his 3/3s are kinda neutralized by my pumped goblins (not the first time this has happened either. Chieftain is fantastic). I have enough Goblins that I can Gempalm his Terrastadon to kill it once you include combat damage, the rest of the blocks trade, and Player X scoops.
I sided 2 Nature's Ruin and 2 Perish in,1 WW, 1 Gempalm, and 2 Instigators out.
G2) Player X mulled to 5.
2-0
4-0
R3) - BW
G1) He was on the play and led with Mom. I landed a 1 drop. He played a 2nd land and Inquizition of Kozileked me. Rough start. I started Porting his swamp on his next turn, and he missed his 3rd land drop. I was able to keep his manabase shaky the rest of the game and eventually won.
I sided out Instigators for artifact hate.
G2) He gets an Engineered Plague in play, but I Matron up a Chieftain and play double Piledriver for the win. I neutralize his Mom by Vialing in Stingscourger, targeting Mom. He taps Mom in response (giving herself ProRed) and I Gempalm Mom in response.
3-0
6-0
Top 8) - Blue MUD
G1) I'm on the draw for the 7th time today. He plays Mishra's Factory, go. I play Mountain. Lackey, go, and immediately think I might have made a misplay by not just Wasting the Factory instead T1. He plays a 2nd land and passes the turn without playing anything of significance. I Waste his Mishra's and connect with Lackey, putting something mean into play. He plays a phyrexian revoker which I Gempalm and it's over soon thereafter.
I side out Instigators and a Gempalm for all my artifact hate.
G2) He plays land, go. I play Mountain, Lackey, Go. He plays land, Chalice at 1. I win. Somewhere along the line a Tukltuk Scrapper scraps his Chimera.
4-0
8-0
Top4 split the cash.
I thought I should write this report not because of any strategic or metagame insight I gleamed from last night, but because my games showed just how easily Goblins takes control of the game on turn 1. Mulling to a 1 drop forces your opponent to have answers. It throws them off their gameplan which allows you to implement yours more easily. There are really no other 1 Drops that can dictate the course of the game like Lackey and Vial. Top, Mom, NH, BoP, no other one drop I can think of has the same raw power of Vial and Lackey.
I'd also like to point out that my opponents had bad games last night. The Goblins player couldn't get anything going. Player X's deck really crapped out on him. The BW deck faltered in the midgame and the MUD deck kept openers too slow to disrupt my goblins. I didn't feel like I had too many decisions to make. The deck just played itself, did what it does and took the games down.
Congratulations on your result. You shouldn't underestimate Top and Hierarch though, just as you shouldn't overestimate Vial and Lackey. They both depend on decent other cards in your hand, which can make them quite sucky. Also, when you keep a hand where you depend on either Vial or Lackey and your opponent has a way to neutralize them, you're pretty much screwed. That said, they are awesome must-answer cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Thanks for the report and congrats! I think the fact that you side out Instigators every single time is a good indication that they can be dropped. Also it seems like you can very easily cut a land (you have 23) or a Chieftain to get to 60 cards.
@jrw1985 : Congratulations.
I think it is weird to drop Instigators against NO/Show, since it is there basically to speed your deck up, like against other combos where he's good...
For some reason I just like playing 61 cards. 22 lands always seemed a little light, but there was nothing I wanted to cut for the last land, so I just bumped it to 61.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomsday
Instigators are basically there because they're never dead G1 (unlike Tinkerer or Sharpshooter or other common 1-ofs) and they seem better right now than MWM. Once Instigator hits play your opponent is required to have removal for it. MWM was there more for chumping, so it seems less necessary in a format with less Zoo and no Vengevines.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
I disagree that Instigator speeds the deck up, since I can't play it T1 nor on T2 (if I've played a Port/Waste as my land drop). And though I wouldn't board it out against Storm combo (since they have 0 blockers), he's extremely easily chumped in a deck like Show n Tell (remember how Player X had 5 man dorks G1?). Really, he's just a scary dude that people need to answer or they'll lose, which generally means more synergystic Goblins can skate by for a while (Warchief, Piledriver, Chieftain AKA goblins that make your other goblins better, which WI doesn't).
Another reason not to cut him is I only play him as a 2-of. I can't think of any other 2cc goblin that would make the deck noticably better. Maybe some more Stingscourgers? But they do the opposite of WI. WI forces your opponent to have answers. Sting kills himself. WI puts your creatures into play. Sting removes your opponent's creatures from play. Actually, Stingscourger is starting to sound decent...
If I bring Goblins to the Open in LA, should I tailor it to beat Zoo or TA? Zoo will show up to crush TA, 'Folk, and Affinity, so really, I need to answer those 4 decks. Is this feasible? Should I splash? Or no? Keep in mind, I'm not expecting much combo, if any.