Also, I heard some one was playing a BUG variant that seemed really interesting.
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Also, I heard some one was playing a BUG variant that seemed really interesting.
I play a BUG variant? are you local to the Baltimore DC area?Quote:
Originally Posted by HSCK
Yeah, I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampart
Then you probably have seen me playing that BUG variant. I was pretty active in the NOVA/Baltimore legacy scene for a couple years before I had my kid. Its a lot harder to make it out to play nowadays.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSCK
Anyway here is my list of what I am currently playing on MODO
4 Cloud of Faires
4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Eternal Witness
4 Elephant Grass
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Seal of Removal
2 Words of Wind
2 Seal of Primoridium
1 In the Eye of Chaos
1 Mirri's Guile
8 Forest
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Tropical Island
1 Dryad Arbor
Sideboard
3 Mana Maze
2 Back to Basics
2 Abundant Growth
2 Chill
2 Doomwake Giant
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
Let me know how is goes if you decide to play it.
Crispin
I just want to mention that this deck looks awesome.
Any of you have any success with it? What are its strengths and weaknesses?
How do you define success? in all seriousness. I have gone 6-3/7-2 at some of the SCG Legacy Tournaments, I have taken down a local weeklies before. I don't define that as successful because I have been much more successful with other legacy decks like Storm, Painter or Lands. The goals I have when I play competitive legacy hasn't been meet with this deck and I am not sure that it can meet those goals with the given card pool. That being said I find it interesting to play and something I come back to time and time again. I guess it is my pet deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboninja
All enchantress variants have the same sort of strengths and weaknesses. its good against fair decks and bad against unfair decks (which is an oversimplification as you could write a thesis on the topic). Its basically a turn 4-5 prison deck with a proactive plan of removing all your opponents stuff from play. The deck is highly customization with a good core that works for most meta's that are not completely degenerate. This version of enchantress like its more popular G/W counterpart is really kind of tough to play, its very technical with all the triggers, how the stack and how your cards interact with your opponents and its not very forgiving if you make a mistake. So its not very beginner friendly.
Not sure that answered you question completely but ehh
Thanks for the response, it was just what I wanted.
Has anyone considered a version with an all-basics manabase and mainboard 4 Root Maze 4 Back to Basics? Seems like that would hate all over the entire Legacy format. (Other than maybe like, Death and Taxes.) Fetchlands lol. And then maybe things like Energy Flux. They also have decent synergy with Elephant Grass and Words of Wind.
The main weakness of this deck is fast combo and I don't think those cards do anything to help the abysmal unfair matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Illissius
Root Maze slows down LED and Petal! TES can hardly go off Ad Nauseam without Petal and Chrome Mox.
Root Maze slows down every other deck one turn.
It's not SO bad.
Turn 1 growth.
Turn 2 growth and cloud of faeries. Maze and Back to basics. GG.
Root Maze sounds fun in Legacy to me.
Not only against just unfair decks, also hilarious with random fetchlands in general.
Root Maze does not slow down Lion's Eye Diamond. What this deck want to beat Storm is Sphere of Resistance. It works against Elves, and Food Chain as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboninja
Edit: Also, Gaddock Teeg
It actually wants Mana Maze or In the Eye of Chaos, Teeg is also good here. While cards like Sphere of Resistance are powerful in the right shell, this is not the shell. With Sphere in play you would basically have to destroy it before you could go off which means your still running cards like Seal of Primordium after board which is pretty bad against storm, it also slows your development which means that you can't catch up to there speed. Its not like you playing classic enchantress with an extreme top end and bomb after bomb utilizing Serra's Sanctum to provide you mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
The real issue as I see it is that U/G Enchantress is too slow. A turn 4/5 deck on average is not just going to race a turn 3 deck on average. So we either get faster or make them go slower. Getting faster isn't really an option unless earthcraft gets unbanned, you get the nut Cloudstone Curio hand or you start running leyline or something like that. Due to the lack of white cards Mana Maze and ItEoC are you best options on color. I don't know what else you really do given the card pool. Also to be fair I am not sure that all combo is bad, I think that Elves and Storm are pretty bad, But I would prefer playing against SnS, Reaniamtor or Infect over the other too any day.
Root Maze and B2B is cute and I can see that working in a super fair metagame, the issue would be is that it takes up to many slots. you would have to run like 2 Root Mazes and 3 B2B's to properly slot the cards and I am not sure that is better then anything else.
Root Maze doesn't stop LED and ANT, the more common storm variant, relies far less on Ad Nauseam. I guess it's better than nothing vs storm game 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboninja
Been testing this list for a little bit, mostly based on Chris Andersen's latest article with 2 changes main and a W splash for SB cards
7 Forest
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
2 Cloudstone Curio
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Eternal Witness
1 Abundant Growth
1 Song of the Dryads
1 Words of Wind
4 Elephant Grass
4 Seal of Removal
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Mindbreak Trap
4 Green Sun's Zenith
SB
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
2 Mana Maze
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Carpet of Flowers
Seems good so far.
I see there has previously been a lot of debate in this thread about Cloudstone Curio, the card seems very good from my limited experience:
- If you have Cloudstone + Enchantress you can loop your 1-mana enchantments to draw cards, often this is better than looping to bounce the opponent's permanents with WOW (and is more mana-efficient).
- You have access to a much less demanding infinite-mana combo (1 Wild Growth and 2 Cloud of Faeries)
The above are the main 2 benefits, but you can also consider:
- You can bounce creatures by playing creatures: If you have a lot of mana enchantments then you can go infinite with only 1 Cloud of Faeries by looping CoF+Argothian. You can fetch into arbor to bounce your Argothian (to save it from a wrath or something). You can also bounce Eidolon this way to replay it and draw cards. You can also do this at sorcery speed by GSZ for Arbor. This can be like a ritual if you bounce Faeries.
- If your Elephant Grass is keeping you alive and you can't afford to pay for it anymore you can bounce it with Curio and replay it again.
- You can bounce Song of the Dryads to replay it on a different target
- You can bounce Abundant Growth to draw cards
- You can bounce Carpet of Flowers to replay it again and get mana in your second main
- Bounce Witness/RecSage (A lot of those things can be also done with WoW but it doesn't cost extra mana with curio and letting yourself draw a card is often better than bouncing your opponents worst permanent).
If you are playing this deck with 2 WoW and you haven't tried Curio I recommend you at least try a Curio in place of a WoW. Once my opponent exiled my 1 WoW with Thought-Knot Seer, and I still managed to win the game just by drawing my deck and attacking with Faeries while hiding behind Elephant Grass and Seal of Removal.
Maybe Mindbreak Trap (or the last WoW) should be Venser? Once you have infinite CoF mana with the Curio combo you can bounce all your opponent's permanents with it and then it will act as a Counterspell. You can also just play it mid-game to bounce a Chalice of the Void or something but you won't surprise any combo players like you can do with mindbreak trap sometimes.
With Curio the Abundant Growth trick made me look at other enchantments that are cantrips. One that caught my eye was Spreading Seas; it's also a combo with Carpet of Flowers, and the 'blood moon' effect can be useful in some matchups but I'm not really sure if this is worth it.
In the SB I think the 3 creatures and the Leylines are key but the rest I'm not completely sure about.
EDIT: Decklist errors
Curio has the issue of being pretty mana intensive and not netting you anything until you start going off vs. more WoW which will draw you multiple cards. I'm really glad other people are talking about this deck again though.
Curio is 3 to cast and costs 0 to do anything, WoW is 3 to cast and costs 1 each time you want to do something.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSCK
WoW will (probably) draw you cards when you cast it because it is an enchantment which is certainly a plus for WoW over Curio.
If you are topdecking and you have enchantresses in play then WoW is also better than Curio because you can guarantee that you will 'draw' an enchantment.
But say you have Curio + Enchantress I don't see how WoW is better when you are going off.
Have you tried Curio online? it seems like a slog to use with out the ability to create a loop. I would definitly play a couple Curios IRL though, its like easy modeQuote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
I don't play on MODO but it shouldn't be much different to twin or eggs once you get used to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampart
Its a little different, Your not moving through your deck at the same velocity and its more like the bomberman combo which takes a million clicks to use. I should just buy a couple and try it out. My worry is that I already have clock issues with the slow matchups so I don't want to be clocked out.Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
Again I would definitely try two in real life tournaments