Printable View
So Chromatic Sphere is always superior, unless someone wants to Disenchant the Chromatic Star? Ok. Can you explain to me why people use Terrarion in Affinity instead of Chromatic Sphere?(Off topic I know, but it perplexes me.)Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilver
The off topic answer is that it gives the double black mana for Cranial Plating, that it gives a red then black to cast Atog and Disciple. It gives WU for Meddling Mage. It also draws you a card when you sac it to ravager or atog. Which is why Chromatic Star will be good in affinity.
:wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living
I think its pretty obivous why it is that much better: You get the cantrip if its cracked for mana or not. Terridon is sometimes played in sphere's place for that reason: sometimes you just want to draw the card without having to manaburn, and just sac it to ravager for a battlegrowth.
After fiddling around with the Chromatic Star and figuring out what's better between it and Sphere, I dedcided to run both... :D
4 City of Traitors
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass/Forbidden Orchard
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Helm of Awakening
4 Spoils of the Vault
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
3 Meditate
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
3 Tendrils of Agony
Sideboard
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Regrowth
1 Night's Whisper
1 Infernal Contract
1 Promise of Power
1 Firebolt
1 Simplify
1 Echoing Ruin
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Defense Grid
I decided to cut the eggs entirely because the 2 mana needed to filter were an issue sometimes...
Any other things from TS that we can potentially use?
You run a Diminishing Returns main? Obviously it's nice with Infernal Tutor and Hellbent, but you should really post your Wish-board as well.
3 Meditate is really high as well. And you run a very strange manabase - no fetches or Landgrants.
But it's good to know that you think that Star > the other Eggs - I was definitely also thinking of cutting the Eggs altogether and you just helped me in that decision.
I run a Returns main for those occasions when I feel like I don't have enough cards in hand to chain 10+ spells into a Tendrils... What better way to restock your hand than with a Draw7? :tongue:
Meditates are really for the draw that the deck sometimes needs... Though I'm contemplating on dropping them and the Returns for 4 Duress, as protection... Is that the right call?...
Also my mana base is as such because as Roopey pointed out, revealing your hand with Land Grant is a huge liability against control, and I've had a troubling amount of games lost because of the 1-2 life lost from cracking fetches... And 5-color lands at least ease your mind a bit from thinking of the proper land to fetch, and that's a good thing with all the thinking that you do with Nausea.... :tonuge:
That deck really isn't Nausea anymore. Nausea is based on a low mana curve and mana efficient cantrip effects and strong tutor power. This deck is based on a more rounded out mana base and higher cc drawing effects.
OK, here's where I've gone with Nausea.
Nausea 2.1
// Mana
4 City of Traitors
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Land Grant
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
// Cantrip
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
3 Shadowblood Egg
3 Sleight of Hand
2 Night's Whisper
// Other Shit
4 Burning Wish
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Helm of Awakening
4 Spoils of the Vault
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Meditate
// Sideboard
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Night's Whisper
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Promise of Power
1 Regrowth
1 Infernal Contract
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Simplify
1 Echoing Ruin
1 Firebolt
4 Xantid Swarm
OK, here are the big changes:
1 Tendrils - I really, REALLY hated drawing Tendrils when I was comboing - I almost always just Wish or Infernal Tutor for it. So I went down to just one in the main. It sometimes sucks drawing it when you go off, but you can fire off a smaller one to stay alive and then keep comboing next turn. Sucks, but it happens. Taking it completely out of the main means that you can only Burning Wish, and I use Infernal Tutor just too much to do that.
No Taiga - I never Land Granted or fetched for Taiga. Ever. I have enough Red to support Burning with in the Shadowblood Eggs and the 8 Chromatics. I figured that Burning Wish is one of the spells you cast at the end of your chain, so it's better to use Tropical Island for the Sleights and the Meditate when you fetch up lands early. Either way, having one less land and one more spell seems pretty good in the abstract, right?
Night's Whisper - Obviously only 2 seems untuned, but I like it better than Brainstorm and I had 2 empty slots. Anything Blue would increase my dependency on non-black mana, and I like Rituals too much to do that.
I mean, I don't actually have a Legacy playgroup right now; the best I can do is goldfishing, and I've been having some amazing hands. Turn 2-3 seems pretty regular for this build. I'd LOVE to get another Infernal Tutor in the deck; thinking about cutting a Whisper for it. Chaining Infernal Tutors into Thresholded Cabal Rituals, or Helm'ed Rituals, and LEDs when you are about to Burning Wish (my favorite)... Infernal Tutor is such a good card.
Thoughts? I'm pretty sure that cutting the Taiga is such a major move that it would require more than me sounding off on how good it is :>
Hi Drkdstryer
I have picked up Nausea as my deck for Legacy. So I started goldfishing and it seemed pretty awesome. I only disliked the Brainstorms because of not enough shuffling effects (replaced them with Sleights) and Meditates, I have left just one in the deck. But the rest was really good, Turn 2-3 all the time. So I practiced a lot and felt OK to start playing with it.
And here is the bad part, my first games showed a need for Duress and some bounce. And proved Spoils to be just too dangerous against many decks, turn 2-3 I was at like 14-11 life...so I cut them down to 3.
Also 1 Ill-Gotten Gains MD seems good to me. And why do you have so many Egg efects? 4+4+3 seems too much to me.
So anyway here is my view on Nausea, the things I am still considering is cutting the Taiga for a fetch land, because there really is no need for it with all the mana filtering and dropping Sleights for one more Tendrils and Duress and one MD bounce - Chain of Vapor.
// Mana
4 City of Traitors
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
4 Land Grant
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
// Cantrip
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
2 Shadowblood Egg
3 Sleight of Hand
// Other Stuff
4 Burning Wish
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Helm of Awakening
3 Spoils of the Vault
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Meditate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
3 Duress
SB is the same, I will start thinking of it more after I find the MD optimal.
I've cut the Land Grants for Fetches like Roop did, and haven't looked back since. Seriously, being able to get lands that tap for two useful colours and not having to show your hand is such a huge boon for the deck. My control matchup is pretty decent, and I don't seem to need the MD duresses. I might cut a few eggs for them though, see how they work. Anyway, I advise everyone to test cutting the land grants. I'm pretty sure you won't be dissapointed.
Well and how many lands do you use? 11 like before (4 Grants, 4 Cities and 3 Duals) or more? Because the Cities are a huge boost giving two mana and grants giving a free storm count. Also with so many lands in the deck and so many countrips it must be hard to get hellbent without a use of LED. It just seems to me that when you change the lands you get a lot closer to just change the whole deck to be an IGGY POP. The way Nausea plays is a lot different, its just balls to the walls (or how you say it in english). If you change the mana base to be more safe against control and Wasteland and then remove the Spoils because of more safety you just get the Veggie Tendrils deck. And thats not why I have picked exactly this deck.
Just my 2 cents (can anyone please explain this to me? I get the idea when and how to use this phrase but dont understand the origin of it, thanks).
My build uses this manabase:Quote:
Well and how many lands do you use? 11 like before (4 Grants, 4 Cities and 3 Duals) or more? Because the Cities are a huge boost giving two mana and grants giving a free storm count. Also with so many lands in the deck and so many countrips it must be hard to get hellbent without a use of LED. It just seems to me that when you change the lands you get a lot closer to just change the whole deck to be an IGGY POP. The way Nausea plays is a lot different, its just balls to the walls (or how you say it in english). If you change the mana base to be more safe against control and Wasteland and then remove the Spoils because of more safety you just get the Veggie Tendrils deck. And thats not why I have picked exactly this deck.
Just my 2 cents (can anyone please explain this to me? I get the idea when and how to use this phrase but dont understand the origin of it, thanks).
4 City of Traitors
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
1 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
So I'm using 1 more land then you are. The point of this is that you retain the aggro-smashing properties of nausea, but rather than taking it up the ass once a control deck sees you don't have any mana except for the grant and they counter it, you don't have to worry about that anymore. The extra storm doesn't matter usually, and having lands that basically only tap for mana of one kind really sucks when you can have them tap for two colours. There's a drifference between playing balls to the walls combo and just running suboptimal cards for a rather trivial speedbump.
My 2 cents
Have anyone thought about not using colored lands at all. Here is a thread http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/...f76bf8298e2a63 about Workshop Tendrils, so I thought like using 8 lands that give two colorless mana and about 12 Sphere/Star/Egg effects would be sufficient enough. The counts may be different, but you get the idea.
I'm thinking that's probably a bad idea. Hear me out on this:
This increases your reliance on Helm of Awakening, since in any other case the eggs will just be -1 mana. Secondly, what lands would you use? I can think of City of Traitors, Crystal Vein and Ancient Tomb. Tomb can't be used here since the lifeloss tends to add up real quickly between spoils and this. Crystal Vein needs to be sacced for its 2 mana, meaning it won't be worthwhile most of the time. Lastly, you become unable to play any tutors or draw prior to drawing off, seeing as your lands will only produce colourless mana. In theory, it doesn't seem like such a good idea, but the extra mana might offset the drawbacks, I'd have to test to be sure, but those are my initial thoughts.
Well I tried it over MWS and its not very good. You need something like 8-10 lands that produce two mana - all your comments are true, the additional life loss hurts and Crystal Veins sucks. And then the count off egg effects must be also more then 12, something like 14 seemed good to me (but you know how MWS shuffler sucks). So after all you get just the Easter Eggs deck, which is not very good. Im going back to original Nausea.
Well I see that you follow this thread Zir - may I ask you to post your decklist? Im trying your manabase and would like to know your opinion about the Duresses main. Whether its good to have Duress to get rid of their counter or another threat which they must counter or die.
Mana
4 [EX] City of Traitors
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [b] Volcanic Island
1 [u] Underground Sea
1 [A] Badlands
1 [u] Bayou
4 [MI] Dark Ritual
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [VI] Helm of Awakening
Eggs
4 [MR] Chromatic Sphere
3 [OD] Darkwater Egg
3 [OD] Shadowblood Egg
Business
4 [MR] Spoils of the Vault
3 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [JU] Burning Wish
3 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
3 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [OV] Meditate
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [FD] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Ruin
SB: 1 [OD] Simplify
SB: 1 [OD] Chain Lightning
SB: 1 [R] Regrowth
SB: 1 [OV] Infernal Contract
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 4 [US] Duress
SB: 2 [SC] Xantid Swarm
This is my list for a quite aggro-orientated meta, pre-TS. If you're playing more control decks than I am, adding 4 Duress to the main is definately a good move, but you'd have to cut back on the draw effects, seeing as Dureess is a pretty bad draw when comboing. I'd play something like this:
Mana
4 [EX] City of Traitors
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [b] Volcanic Island
1 [u] Underground Sea
1 [A] Badlands
1 [u] Bayou
4 [MI] Dark Ritual
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [VI] Helm of Awakening
Eggs
4 [MR] Chromatic Sphere
4 [TS] Chromatic Star
Business
4 [US] Duress
4 [MR] Spoils of the Vault
2 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [JU] Burning Wish
3 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
2 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [OV] Meditate
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [FD] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Ruin
SB: 1 [OD] Simplify
SB: 1 [OD] Chain Lightning
SB: 1 [R] Regrowth
SB: 1 [OV] Infernal Contract
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 4 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 [TS] Grapeshot
As we need more decklists (and a bump), my 2 cents:
4 City of Traitors
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Badlands
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
3 Tendrils of Agony
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Burning Wish
1 Shadowblood Egg
4 Helm of Awakening
3 Infernal Tutor
2 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Spoils of the Vault
4 Chromatic Star
2 Night's Whisper
1 Grapshot
// Sideboard
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Echoing Ruin
1 Simplify
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Firebolt
1 Infernal Contract
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Pyroclasm
1 Grapeshot
1 Defense Grid
1 Regrowth
I cut green because I cut Land Grant. Land Grant is a nice card because it adds stom count, doesn't cost you 1 life and you can play it even if you have already played a land- this is important for Infernal Tutor. But showing your opponent your hand has been one of the worst things you can do with this deck, as far as I've seen. Your opponent just knows quite well what you want to do and which cards are your keycards. Control gains a lot off Land Grant, as does Cabal Therapy. And even if your opponent is playing neither -Land Grant gives him/her an advantage which can be game-deciding.
Without Land Grant, green is totally useless- you always get the 1 green for Simplify off the 8 Chromatics, the 4 Petals or even the LEDs. And you usually tap Bayou for black anyways.
For the 8 Chromatics, they are WAY better than the eggs because they cost 1 less and the only card the eggs are better with are the cities.
3 Tendrils is also a must-play, because we have to rely on double-Tendrils vs Control.
The Tutors have been the greatest improvement ever since they just win games. 2 LEDs + Wish/Tutor or LED+Tutor/Wish+ Helm are game because of the Iggy.
I also cut blue because I didn't like Meditate- it costs too much mana, is not fast and you don't want to rely on 4 cards because often that just isn't enough. With Meditate gone, blue felt strange in the deck and I'm testing Nights Whisper (again...) atm. I also test the 2nd Iggy main because it happens that you don't have enough red to keep the cycle going or you have the Iggy in the hand you want to discard for LED.
Another option is Rite of the Flame, since we could need even more acceleration, but sadly it's a little bit offcolour...
As for the Whispers, mb they Brainstorms are better, but another card that probably belongs MD is Grapeshot. It's just great against Meddling Mage and it can "replace" up to 3 missing storm-copies (we have an answer to Lacky, STRIKE!).
The manabase has suffered a little bit since I play 4 Bloodstained Mires, which is a problem because of Needle, maybe I'll again replace 2 of them with Polluteds. A great improvement on the other hand are the basic swamps- with all those Loamdecks rising and Wasteland still being a problem for the deck, especially in multiples, Basics often felt so god damned good...
I've not really changed the SB since I was too concerned with the MD -only Grapeshot has been a card that had to be in there. Empty the Warrens could also be considered (especially if you are running Rite of Flame) -it can win games where you don't have the mana to get your stormcount high enough, maybe it's worth going for.
Against Control, relying on double-Tendrils has been the best plan so far- Duress is the best option after that, because Grid is often too slow and Xantid Swarm is easily hated (yeah, mb they Side the hate out/have none, but we just cut green, you know...).
Thoughts? :P (and excuse my English... )
If somebody legitly wants to talk about this deck you can't just kill it back off, if you did, then kill off Slavebringer...
OK, so i'm wondering how many duals i should run, is green really worth it?