[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

@Surfkatt: Gratz!

@HoneyT/Punishing Fit: Why Maelstrom Pulse Maindeck? Punishing Fit has so many Removal and i remember Pulse was mainly for Walkers (not so much in the current meta and we still have the PFire-Engine) and sometimes Batterskull. I thought about Reclamation Sage here, with Zenith it is less random, can block and attack and seems overall better in a heavy Removal Deck (3x Deed, 3x Decay, 3x PFire, 3x Liliana and i also use 1 Garruk Relentless).

My signature includes my current Punishing Fire build - it contains HoneyT's Maindeck Pulse (but as i mentioned, i thought about a switch) but a different Sideboard. Carpet of Flowers are my 2 Flex slots here, which can also be Grip, Toxic Deluge etc.

@Surfkatt: Congratulations. I was looking over the top 8 in your tournament and was just wondering who you defeated in the quarter finals.

Team ScapeWish +1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bryanzoll

@Surfkatt: Congratulations. I was looking over the top 8 in your tournament and was just wondering who you defeated in the quarter finals.

Team ScapeWish +1

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I played against Harlie with Death and Taxes. Not quite a bye since he is a good player but pretty close. Especially since he has only 1 cataclysm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surfkatt

I played against Harlie with Death and Taxes. Not quite a bye since he is a good player but pretty close. Especially since he has only 1 cataclysm.

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Nice win.

Against U/R delver did you land huntmaster at all and how did it compare to baloth? (if you didn't land baloth a theory-crafted response works too)

Hello fellow Nic Fitters! It has been a long time for me since I have been active in any discussions on this board. I have a renewed interest and faith in the deck and modified my old Junk list (I refuse to call it Abzan). I play tested this list against a friend of mine who was on UWR Stoneblade. We played 6 game ones alternating who was on the play. I am curious to know what other people feel could improve match ups that are out there in the current meta. I will provide the list and some of my playtest notes below.

Main Deck (60)

Creatures (15)

1 Deathrite Shaman
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan

Spells (23)

3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pernicious Deed

Lands (22)

1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Swamp
3 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

In my play testing one of the things I felt was that Liliana is really bad right now. Almost borderline unplayable. There was almost no situation where I felt advantaged after having resolved her. With so many decks able to cast cheap threats her "sac a dude" mode just becomes a three mana sorcery speed removal spell because there are almost always creatures left over to take her out, or she just eats a bolt. My friend was deathly afraid of Deed and I always liked having it against delver and stoneblade decks. I went down to 3 Veteran Explorer from the original 4. drawing him late game was less than exciting. after our play test sessions I want to make the following changes.

out:
1 Veteran Explorer
3 Liliana

In:
1 Siege Rhino
1 Fleecemane Lion
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Deathrite Shaman

Rhino was awesome every game I got him into play and love just knowing he was in the deck. I wanted to cut another Explorer for the reasons outlined above and DRS adds another early game play and a potential win condition. I have been wanting to try out Fleecemane Lion for a while. I don't know how good it will be but I like have another early threat to apply pressure and can turn into another hexproof monster that dodges removal and stonewalls all the x/1's and x/2's in the format. Deluge is a concession to the fact that deed is sometimes too slow and can be played around when on the field. Another avenue I am considering is taking out Grave Titan and lowering the curve by adding a fourth Rhino, the other option to add another five drop int eh form of Baneslayer Angel.

One of my problem areas currently is the sideboard. I am not sure what to put in it. I currently have the following but am open to changing it.

Sideboard (15)

1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Thoughtseize
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Council's Judgment

Alright, as posted before, I ended up winning my local IQ the other day with Scapewish. Given that it took place in New Jersey it was a decent turnout (45 players) and most of them where reasonably experienced with Legacy which is a good thing (or so I thought). Normally experienced players make good deck choices like Delver, Miracles, or death and taxes which makes any Nic Fit deck a great choice. Unfortunately this was not completely true which I found out later, the hard way. For now, lets talk about the list:

Scapewish

Main Deck:
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Primeval Titan
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wood Elves

2 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Scapeshift
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sarkhan the Mad

3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills



Sideboard:
1 Dryad Militant
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
3 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Scapeshift
1 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Vraska the Unseen

JK, the deck is mostly stock. I will point out a couple cards that are a little out there.

1 Sarkhan the Mad: I wanted a noncreature threat that had some inherent synergy with the deck. Turning random dorks into dragons is sweet, drawing cards for free is sweet (Top), and living through deed is sweet. Unfortunately he ended up doing nothing. Not because he had I died with him in my hand but because he kept getting forced. People would stop, read him a few times, and snap force him. Still have no idea if he is good or not.

1 Wooded foothills: I used to run 4 catacombs but I saw people trying a 3-1 split out so I figured hey, why not? It was probably the worst card in my deck all weekend. Just straight terrible. One would think it fetches duels all the same so why does it matter? I lost a game and almost lost another due to my inability to get a basic swamp.

1 Vraska the Unseen: I love me some 5 mana walkers as you can tell. This one I feel is actually pretty good. Its like an extra maelstrom pulse that can win the game. I brought it in a lot but never got to cast it.

1 Dryad Militant: This card was the real MVP of my Sunday. Holy crap this card was absurd for me. It won me 4 games I had 0 business winning. We will get to that later.


Those are the cards that I thought were worth mentioning. If anybody has any other questions about the list let me know. Onto the games:

Round 1 - Bug Delver

Game 1 : Always great to start against a friend right? I saw the pairing round one and was not very happy. It was my buddy Joe playing BUG Delver, which is not a terrible matchup mind you, but I know he is a skilled player and I have no element of surprise. This game was unexciting. 3 wastes and a Goyf back by force sealed the deal. Could not stick a black mana due to the foothills.

Game 2: Also unexciting. He was stuck on 2 lands and kept tapping out for goyfs. I ramped with explorers, cabaled his forces, and scaped him.

Game 3: I keep an awkward hand with 2 pyroblasts, lands, and a witness after a mull to 6. He seizes my thoughts and extracts my blasts. I draw an ooze to fight his deathrite, he decays it. I Ewit my ooze back and keep his deathrite down. He has just enough to cruise and then proceeds to stifle me out as he beats me with a flipped delver.

0-1

Round 2 - Death and Taxes

Game 1: I honestly can never remember games against death and taxes. Not to be rude to Death and Taxes players because I do think the deck is very good but the games are very rarely close. I blind take a with cabal after he leads with vial. His hand is nonsense (Brimaz, port, flicker, lands) and I ramp a bit with explorer (taking Brimaz) and that’s that. Wish into scape seals it.

Game 2: I drew 2 pernicious deeds after cabaling his revoker.

1-1

One thing I will note that is slightly annoying about the matchup is that I normally have to combo off 8 lands because they don’t take damage/Batterskull.

Round 3 - Jeskai Stoneblade

Game 1: Another friend where I lose the advantage of surprise. Although the matchup is so positive it didn’t matter. He has a double pyro draw with force backup. He forces my deed hits me for 8 but at this point his hand is running low. I Wish for massacre, wipe his board and pass. He cruises and passes. I run huntmaster into a swords. He still doesn’t find pressure and scoops to a prime time.

Game 2: I cabal his force, ramp with vet. He stones for a batterskull, I decay his mystic. We go back and forth for a bit, he cruises, I jam threats. Eventually I slam a prime time when he has 0 cards in hand and is at 18 life. All he has is a Jitte with 2 counters, a mystic, and a meddling mage on pyroblast. Prime time brings it home again.

2-1


Round 4 - Oops all spells

Game 1: He kills me turn 1 on the play. Yikes. I start thinking about going home and what to do with the rest of my day.

Game 2: I mull to 5 but the 5 is (Dryad, 2x Thoughtseize, Baloth, Taiga). Turn 1 millitant gg. He plays it out given he has 1 slaughter pact but he does not draw it.

Game 3: He mulls to 4 and I cabal on dark ritual into GSZ into dryad. So glad I chose that as a 1 of.

3-1

Round 5 - Miracles

Game 1: I saw him playing earlier so I kept a SUPER greedy hand (GSZ,GSZ,Scape,Scape, lands) and got rewarded, I ran him out of counters and that was that. He never had a chance to establish a threat other than a lone clique. I Lead with green sun’s until I was sure he had nothing and shifted him.

Game 2: This game was… odd. He boarded into a humility plan and had that card on turn 4. I just kept playing 1/1 baloths and tusks until I forced him to entreat for 4 1/1’s. We spent 25 minutes posturing and trading 1/1’s. While we did this I built up my hand disruption to the point where I could decay his top to force a draw and cabal away all the countermagic. Unfortunately he had a brainstorm and “Nothing.” Else. After a few more turns I felt pressured enough to go for it again. He had 1 card in hand and a top. I double therapy away the Jace in hand and go for it when he had 4 lands untapped. He snap drew with top, slammed down snapcaster, and then facepalmed.

4-1

Round 6 - Oops all spells

Game 1: One might think I could draw in at this point. That one did not know that I had the worst breakers and got paired down into a miserable matchup. I won the die roll, called wrong with therapy and promptly died.

Game 2: Mulled to 5 again, had the turn 1 militant. #skillgame. My opponent played it out, summoning a couple 2/3 fliers and milling me a bit. And this is where things got weird. There were 9 people with 12 or more points meaning weird stuff for breakers. Given I was the only one paired down I had to play but so did the other 2 low 12 pointers or one of them would draw themselves out. They did not play locking out all 12 pointers from making it. Seeing this my opponent scooped to me given he could not top eight. We played out game 3 just for fun.

Game 3: He mulled to 5 and passed turn. I Cast therapy on dark ritual (hit) and GSZ into militant. GG
5-1

1st place in standings

Quarterfinals
Harlie with Death and Taxes

Game 1: I don’t know why but I just cannot remember games versus Death and taxes. I know I kept a great hand with lands, decay, deed and wish. I think I just sat on a deed while he had a stoneforge out and bought enough time to scapeshift him. A veteran explorer was also involved.

Game 2: He had mom into thalia into stoneforge waste you land. I still topdecked a clasm, wiped all but the thalia which got saved by mom. Next turn I decayed thalia, let him bounce it, then therpied it away.
A few turns later I combed him.

Semifinals
Mark with Punishing Maverick

Game 1 : He played deathrite into stoneforge swords my explorer. I massacred his board and stranded his batterskull. He ran a few dorks out, I ramped a bit and scaped him for the win.

Game 2: He cast deathrite into knight and I got stuck on black meaning I did not have an answer to it. I died to a rather large token.

Game 3: I forget exactly what happened this game, I was starting to get really tired. I remember cabaling away a knight after he mulled to 5. I clasmed a deathrite and a Teeg and he killed my ooze with double punishing fire. He didn’t really draw enough threatening things and I eventually scaped him.

Finals
Ryan with U/R Delver

We ended up splitting and playing for the invite. The matchup is really good for me but I did not want to chance anything

Game 1: This game was super weird. I kept a hand light on removal with double therapy and nice threats. He kept a hand of cantrips and a pyromancer. I stripped his force and then stripped his pyro. By turn 4 he played his first threat in young pyro. I decayed it and he made the mistake of attacking into my vet. He wanted the lands out of his deck and the shuffle I assume. I killed him shortly after.

Game 2: He cantrips on the 1st turn again and then fork bolts my vet. I grind him out with deeds and therapy and kill him with scapeshift. Not much to say. His draws were fine but just not the kind of draws he needs in the matchup.


VICTORY!!!



Overall I was super happy with my deck and play. I might change a Chandra, Pyromaster out for the sarkhan but that’s the only maindeck change I want to make right now. Ewitness was never good and neither was wood elves but they have a little more time before they hit the chopping block. With the sideboard though, I have to say, I really don’t like pyroblast in this deck. I get its purpose but it just never was what I wanted it to do. I never really wanted to draw it and always boarded it in because I felt I had to. We will see. I might cut them for another baloth (burn/delver/lily decks) and some surgical’s(Combo/Miracles?).

Thanks for Reading (Or quickly scanning like I would :wink: )

PS. Sorry for the word vomit. I started typing and stopped checking if what I was writing made sense or if what I was writing was too much. Whoops. Might check later to see if it makes any sense.

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Originally Posted by Surfkatt

Scapewish

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As someone who has not read the entire thread, is there an in-depth explanation of how this variation runs?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bhsman

As someone who has not read the entire thread, is there an in-depth explanation of how this variation runs?

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If you go to the first page of this thread and scroll down you will see a lovely description by Arianrhod.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surfkatt

Normally experienced players make good deck choices like Delver, Miracles, or death and taxes which makes any Nic Fit deck a great choice. Unfortunately this was not completely true which I found out later, the hard way.

1 Sarkhan the Mad: I wanted a noncreature threat that had some inherent synergy with the deck. Turning random dorks into dragons is sweet, drawing cards for free is sweet (Top), and living through deed is sweet. Unfortunately he ended up doing nothing. Not because he had I died with him in my hand but because he kept getting forced. People would stop, read him a few times, and snap force him. Still have no idea if he is good or not.

1 Vraska the Unseen: I love me some 5 mana walkers as you can tell. This one I feel is actually pretty good. Its like an extra maelstrom pulse that can win the game. I brought it in a lot but never got to cast it.

VICTORY!!!

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Congratulations with your fine results. I suppose now is the time to try or play pet decks since the pressure of trying to get results of a big tournament is off.

There are some questions for you based on your choices and i am looking on to see if i want to maybe try it in a PFire list.

Sarkhan, i really see the appeal to turn Veterans into 5/5 Flyers while also gaining card advantage thru a SDT. You never resolved one, so that's done quick. But there might also be a place for him in a PFire list. Against what match-ups do you think this would be the walker of choice?

Vraska, i guess the same story, but a different angle. What match-ups you think this one would be most solid?


Yesterday i played a version of the PFire build maindecking 2 Domri Rade and a Counrser of Kruphix. (went 3-0 in matches, also have never lost a match with PFire NicFit in my local magic group. Perhaps time to take it to a tournament).
The Domri Rade was meh. It didn't suck, but it had no immidiate impact on the board. Courser on the other hand was awesome when i had it. There are a lot of little synergies between this one and some number of cards in this deck i liked.
Also i ran 2 Huntmasters of the Fells and it felt awesome. (0 Thrun)
Concerning the 3 Veteran Explorer and 4 Deathrite Shaman split. I really like having a set of DRS as another way of getting mana/ grave hate, life gain or just grinding out your opponent. Sometimes DRS feels "soft", but i really like it's flexibility. 3 Veterans never feel to few and often times i would just GSZ for one if i want to ramp. DRS just puts some pressure on the opponent which also has possitive effect. Also sometimes you have more veterans (effects) then basic lands to fetch, so 3 is the right number for me.
Last Reclamation Sage was never a card i wanted to dig up. Might want to replace it, but not sure for what. Scavenging Ooze is an option, but with 4 DRS not really required.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surfkatt

If you go to the first page of this thread and scroll down you will see a lovely description by Arianrhod.

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Haha, I found that almost immediately after my post. :eek: Thank you.

Played Abzan variant last night at my local weekly tourny. Beat 4 color cascade and jeskai stoneblade but lost to death and taxes (only had non basics game 1 and he drew many wastelands + thalia to keep me off spells, game 2 he gets 3 ports and locks me out of casting anything). I think the d&t result was an anomaly, game 2 I had 20 cards or so that I saw with top and none were green sources, which if I had found would have been able to flashback cabal on a vet ex and ramp past port mattering. Still, 4-2 in games isn't bad. Completely slaughtered the other two decks largely in part to my new foil Siege Rhino.

Here is my latest GBW list for reference: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/02-12-14-rhino-nic-fit/

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Toxic Deluge
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ironclad8690

Played Abzan variant last night at my local weekly tourny. Beat 4 color cascade and jeskai stoneblade but lost to death and taxes (only had non basics game 1 and he drew many wastelands + thalia to keep me off spells, game 2 he gets 3 ports and locks me out of casting anything). I think the d&t result was an anomaly, game 2 I had 20 cards or so that I saw with top and none were green sources, which if I had found would have been able to flashback cabal on a vet ex and ramp past port mattering. Still, 4-2 in games isn't bad. Completely slaughtered the other two decks largely in part to my new foil Siege Rhino.

Here is my latest GBW list for reference: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/02-12-14-rhino-nic-fit/

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Why is your biggest bomb primeval titan? he is just 6/6 trample .... + lands are irelevant in your decklist in my oppinion. Isnt Grave titan or another boneslayer better?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ironclad8690

Played Abzan variant last night at my local weekly tourny. Beat 4 color cascade and jeskai stoneblade but lost to death and taxes (only had non basics game 1 and he drew many wastelands + thalia to keep me off spells, game 2 he gets 3 ports and locks me out of casting anything). I think the d&t result was an anomaly, game 2 I had 20 cards or so that I saw with top and none were green sources, which if I had found would have been able to flashback cabal on a vet ex and ramp past port mattering. Still, 4-2 in games isn't bad. Completely slaughtered the other two decks largely in part to my new foil Siege Rhino.

Here is my latest GBW list for reference: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/02-12-14-rhino-nic-fit/

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Youre a bit heavy on basics and duals and light on Fetches imho. Also, since the only land tutor you have is PrimeTime, Id shave either a basic forest or a plains for another Karakas (will help in fighting thalia i suspect). Other than that, the list looks solid: just a quick question though.

Have you considered Deluge over Deed in the main? Does seem like youd benefit more from pseudo one sided wrath than manland/artifact/enchantment destruction.

I'm trying to build up a G/B/W version of the Nic Fit to fight tempo/combo meta. Main problem are Merfolks and Jund. Combo decks are graveyard based, so I think that sideboard will be dedicated to them. First version of the deck was G/B, and it was really good. Since C.Priest came, I've realised that he is really good to be maindecked. But, since I don't have the money for it...proxy is good enough. Tournaments where I play allow 5 of them.

So...first version of Abzan Nic Fit:
22 Lands:
7x fetches (3 Verdant/2 Marsh/2 Windswept)
5x duals (2 Bayou/2 Scrubland/Savannah)
7x basic lands (3 forest/2 swamp/2 plains)
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Karakas

17x spells:
4x Cabal Therapy
2x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Recurring Nightmare
3x Pernicious Deed
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Diabolic Intent
3x Swords to Plowshares

??x creatures: (so far)
4x V. Explorer
1x Deathrite Shaman
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Eternal Witness
1x Grave Titan
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Massacre Wurm
2x Kitchen Finks
...
So far, this is it. I don't know how to build the creature base so far. So, could you help me a bit? :D
https://deckbox.org/sets/766621 <- This is list of the cards I have, so you can see from what cards I can build this deck. And 5 proxies of any cards in the format!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nargoron

Why is your biggest bomb primeval titan? he is just 6/6 trample .... + lands are irelevant in your decklist in my oppinion. Isnt Grave titan or another boneslayer better?

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I use him to fetch out the two towers. I like having a gsz'able fatty at 6, and he is pretty good at ending games quickly. I might try something else out in his slot though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

Youre a bit heavy on basics and duals and light on Fetches imho. Also, since the only land tutor you have is PrimeTime, Id shave either a basic forest or a plains for another Karakas (will help in fighting thalia i suspect). Other than that, the list looks solid: just a quick question though.

Have you considered Deluge over Deed in the main? Does seem like youd benefit more from pseudo one sided wrath than manland/artifact/enchantment destruction.

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I tried deluge main, but I like the insurance deed gives you against not only miracles, but random decks that flood the board with permanents like aether vial decks, enchantress, tezzeret, stompy variants, and lands to a lesser extent (mox diamond and exploration). Deluge is a little quicker in the creature matchups though, which may lead me back to it. As far as karakas #2, I wish I had a 2nd one. It would definitely help vs thalia. I might shave expensinve removal like maelstrom for something a little cheaper like golgari charm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paranoid__Android

I'm trying to build up a G/B/W version of the Nic Fit to fight tempo/combo meta. Main problem are Merfolks and Jund. Combo decks are graveyard based, so I think that sideboard will be dedicated to them. First version of the deck was G/B, and it was really good. Since C.Priest came, I've realised that he is really good to be maindecked. But, since I don't have the money for it...proxy is good enough. Tournaments where I play allow 5 of them.

So...first version of Abzan Nic Fit:
22 Lands:
7x fetches (3 Verdant/2 Marsh/2 Windswept)
5x duals (2 Bayou/2 Scrubland/Savannah)
7x basic lands (3 forest/2 swamp/2 plains)
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Karakas

17x spells:
4x Cabal Therapy
2x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Recurring Nightmare
3x Pernicious Deed
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Diabolic Intent
3x Swords to Plowshares

??x creatures: (so far)
4x V. Explorer
1x Deathrite Shaman
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Eternal Witness
1x Grave Titan
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Massacre Wurm
2x Kitchen Finks
...
So far, this is it. I don't know how to build the creature base so far. So, could you help me a bit? :D
https://deckbox.org/sets/766621 <- This is list of the cards I have, so you can see from what cards I can build this deck. And 5 proxies of any cards in the format!

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Based on what you have, and what your meta consists of as you describe here, I recommend the following:

61 Main
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Knight of the Reliquary (to tutor your singleton Karakas and Maze of Ith Game 1)
1 Obstinate Baloth (highly suggest Siege Rhino over this)
1 Thragtusk (not running this with the Two Towers is a cardinal sin of Nic Fit in my experience :P)
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Primeval Titan

4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top (if using Toxic Deluge, highly suggest 2 Sylvan Library over this instead)
1 Diabolic Intent

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Pernicious Deed (highly suggest 3 Toxic Deluge over this in your meta)

1 Dryad Arbor (personal preference and definitely the 61st Card if ya want to trim down to 60)
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats (lightly suggest 2 Windswept Heath over this: I prefer green fetches to black fetches)
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Maze of Ith

15 Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Containment Priest (if you can't get it, use 2 Rest in Peace instead)
2 Ethersworn Canonist (for Belcher and possibly Jund)
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 "Sweepers" (for Jund, Merfolk, and combo token swarms)

I'll be trying out "Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers" at the next weekly. Elves, Elephants, and Towers oh my!

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Siege Rhino
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Eternal Witness
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Thragtusk
1 Zealous Persecution
3 Path to Exile
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Maelstrom Pulse

SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Baneslayer Angel
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Massacre

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bryanzoll

Nice win.

Against U/R delver did you land huntmaster at all and how did it compare to baloth? (if you didn't land baloth a theory-crafted response works too)

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I did not end up landing one. In theory it should be VERY hard for them to beat if it resolves. The best thing they can do to it is bolt + Forked Bolt and even that is a 2 for 1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Congratulations with your fine results. I suppose now is the time to try or play pet decks since the pressure of trying to get results of a big tournament is off.

There are some questions for you based on your choices and i am looking on to see if i want to maybe try it in a PFire list.

Sarkhan, i really see the appeal to turn Veterans into 5/5 Flyers while also gaining card advantage thru a SDT. You never resolved one, so that's done quick. But there might also be a place for him in a PFire list. Against what match-ups do you think this would be the walker of choice?

Vraska, i guess the same story, but a different angle. What match-ups you think this one would be most solid?
.

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Sarkhan seems really good versus Miracles/Jund/other grindy slow decks. As crappy as it is it also "deals" with an Emrakul/Griselbrand. A resolved Sarkhan versus Miracles seems very hard for them to beat. Dragons outclass Angels and the card advantage gained from his 0 should be able to overwhelm them.

Vraska a seems good where Sarkhan is good for the most part but she also seems great against stoneblade decks and D&T. Gives more outs to swords/naked Batterskulls. She of course is not nearly impactfull as Sarkhan is but I feel like she does enough of what this deck would want to warrant a spot.

Actually, Surfkatt, the tournament is in Hatboro, PA ;)

Here is the top 8 of the event that Surfkatt won. http://mtgpulse.com/event/18566#261705

edit: As for your sideboard, I think you should do: -3 pyroblast, +2 thoughtseize, +1 duress. The plan is to just overload on hate for the combo matchup. What do you think?

-Brett

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stomping Grounds G&H

Actually, Surfkatt, the tournament is in Hatboro, PA ;)

Here is the top 8 of the event that Surfkatt won. http://mtgpulse.com/event/18566#261705

edit: As for your sideboard, I think you should do: -3 pyroblast, +2 thoughtseize, +1 duress. The plan is to just overload on hate for the combo matchup. What do you think?

-Brett

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I figured it was you Brett. I think that's what I will try at Legacy this week. Where did I say the event took place?

Your post said it took place in New Jersey, a closer description would be "just outside of Philadelphia".

Great games Nick (coming from Mark the Maverick player in the Semifinals.)

I wanted to discuss the option of Toxic Deluge from the board. This card was an Ace in our matchup as you could cast a wish and still kill Gadock teeg in play with the Toxic Deluge option. If teeg is a threat in a local meta, I suggest many other use Toxic Deluge to combat that. Innocent blood would not have been enough as I had multiple dorks on board. I like the list that you played and I wish you luck in your next events. Great tournament report.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stomping Grounds G&H

Your post said it took place in New Jersey, a closer description would be "just outside of Philadelphia".

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Close enough :tongue:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Strassbaw

Great games Nick (coming from Mark the Maverick player in the Semifinals.)

I wanted to discuss the option of Toxic Deluge from the board. This card was an Ace in our matchup as you could cast a wish and still kill Gadock teeg in play with the Toxic Deluge option. If teeg is a threat in a local meta, I suggest many other use Toxic Deluge to combat that. Innocent blood would not have been enough as I had multiple dorks on board. I like the list that you played and I wish you luck in your next events. Great tournament report.

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Yeah, the deluge was awesome for me. Deed does the same thing but it is slower and non-tutorable. Thanks man :smile: !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

Based on what you have, and what your meta consists of as you describe here, I recommend the following:

61 Main
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Knight of the Reliquary (to tutor your singleton Karakas and Maze of Ith Game 1)
1 Obstinate Baloth (highly suggest Siege Rhino over this)
1 Thragtusk (not running this with the Two Towers is a cardinal sin of Nic Fit in my experience :P)
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Primeval Titan

4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top (if using Toxic Deluge, highly suggest 2 Sylvan Library over this instead)
1 Diabolic Intent

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Pernicious Deed (highly suggest 3 Toxic Deluge over this in your meta)

1 Dryad Arbor (personal preference and definitely the 61st Card if ya want to trim down to 60)
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats (lightly suggest 2 Windswept Heath over this: I prefer green fetches to black fetches)
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Maze of Ith

15 Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Containment Priest (if you can't get it, use 2 Rest in Peace instead)
2 Ethersworn Canonist (for Belcher and possibly Jund)
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 "Sweepers" (for Jund, Merfolk, and combo token swarms)

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Siege Rhinos, C. Priests and Toxic Deluges are my next investment. For sure! Then the decklist will be updated with those cards. In side, ''sweepers'' like Engineered Plague/Explosives...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paranoid__Android

Siege Rhinos, C. Priests and Toxic Deluges are my next investment. For sure! Then the decklist will be updated with those cards. In side, ''sweepers'' like Engineered Plague/Explosives...?

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In your Elfless meta, Id go with something like Deed here (or Deluge, depends on which one you main). Kinda strange for me though: I usually have some number of Thalia here for the combo matchups.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

EDIT: Also, if you can afford it, Thoughtseize might serve you better than IoK in the side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stomping Grounds G&H

Actually, Surfkatt, the tournament is in Hatboro, PA ;)

Here is the top 8 of the event that Surfkatt won. http://mtgpulse.com/event/18566#261705

edit: As for your sideboard, I think you should do: -3 pyroblast, +2 thoughtseize, +1 duress. The plan is to just overload on hate for the combo matchup. What do you think?

-Brett

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Access to black sources is an equation no one (among Scapeshifter) has ever solved.
It is easier to have access to red souces or green sources.

Discard is a proactive way to fight combo decks.
But you really need some reactive play to come along your proactive ones or you are bound to die to a strong top deck.
Few contenders are a 2 cards combo decks (S&T), some do not care about discard (ANT & PiF plan) and some are packing some strong discard hate (Omnishow & Leylines).


@Surfkatt: Gratz !

I'm glad someone tried out the lone Militant in the SB.
I've been a very strong advocate for it since a couple of months (in multiple Nic Fit shells).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralf

Access to black sources is an equation no one (among Scapeshifter) has ever solved.
It is easier to have access to red souces or green sources.

Discard is a proactive way to fight combo decks.
But you really need some reactive play to come along your proactive ones or you are bound to die to a strong top deck.
Few contenders are a 2 cards combo decks (S&T), some do not care about discard (ANT & PiF plan) and some are packing some strong discard hate (Omnishow & Leylines).


@Surfkatt: Gratz !

I'm glad someone tried out the lone Militant in the SB.
I've been a very strong advocate for it since a couple of months (in multiple Nic Fit shells).

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Thanks! The Lone Militant was very very strong as I said. Really gives some game against some of out bad matchups. I will admit that black is not the easiest color to get turn one but I also feel like pyroblast is not very strong. Out of all my games I never really ever wanted a pyroblast/ had the mana up to cast pyroblast. Sure the dream scenario is to counter a cruise but alot of the time that means you did not deploy a threat the turn previous. This deck is very mana hungry.

Given that the deck can get screwed on black very easy maybe something free like surgical extraction would be the way to go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralf

Access to black sources is an equation no one (among Scapeshifter) has ever solved.
It is easier to have access to red souces or green sources.

Discard is a proactive way to fight combo decks.
But you really need some reactive play to come along your proactive ones or you are bound to die to a strong top deck.
Few contenders are a 2 cards combo decks (S&T), some do not care about discard (ANT & PiF plan) and some are packing some strong discard hate (Omnishow & Leylines).


@Surfkatt: Gratz !

I'm glad someone tried out the lone Militant in the SB.
I've been a very strong advocate for it since a couple of months (in multiple Nic Fit shells).

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I've had some success with the militant in the board. Funny as hell vs dredge and somewhat decent with the cruise decks. In addition to the one Drs main.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

In your Elfless meta, Id go with something like Deed here (or Deluge, depends on which one you main). Kinda strange for me though: I usually have some number of Thalia here for the combo matchups.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

EDIT: Also, if you can afford it, Thoughtseize might serve you better than IoK in the side.

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Then Deed/Toxic Deluge singleton. And 1 (??) Thalia?
I have 3x Tseizes in my collection. :D

EDIT: Tested against Monoblack Obliterator and classic Bant tempo. Both games won 2:0 with this build from the cards I own. And one huge missplay against Bant G1. If I ever doubt what my opponent has in his hand, always name Brainstorm with Cabal if you go first. Haha! :D (he had 2x in openning hand)

Going to be taking Punishing Fit to SCG Portland this weekend. I'm a little worried about Marit Lage though. Any suggestions?

Also recently broke my SCooze record last Sunday, with a 19/19 Ooze racing a Griselbrand owned by my dredge opponent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SevenInTheQueue

Going to be taking Punishing Fit to SCG Portland this weekend. I'm a little worried about Marit Lage though. Any suggestions?

Also recently broke my SCooze record last Sunday, with a 19/19 Ooze racing a Griselbrand owned by my dredge opponent.

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I use 2x Pithing Needle, 1x Karakas and 3x Surgical Extraction (and 2x Slaughter Games) as my sideboard choices against "Dark Depths-Loam-Decks".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MD.Ghost

I use 2x Pithing Needle, 1x Karakas and 3x Surgical Extraction (and 2x Slaughter Games) as my sideboard choices against "Dark Depths-Loam-Decks".

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Brood mate and lilly are your friends in this matchup. Slaughter can't name lands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SevenInTheQueue

Going to be taking Punishing Fit to SCG Portland this weekend. I'm a little worried about Marit Lage though. Any suggestions?

Also recently broke my SCooze record last Sunday, with a 19/19 Ooze racing a Griselbrand owned by my dredge opponent.

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I'm using 2 Diabolic edict MD vs S&T and Marit lage strategy.
My list is in the first page of the primer. It is tuned for a very mixed field (Fair/Unfair) as I don't like banking my ass on G2 & G3 against unfair decks.

When I was playing Scape, I was MDecking a karakas. I guess this is another good option to go along with Primeval Titan. 2 birds one stone: as just adding a karakas doubles up your chance to have either a Titan or a Karakas in hand.

However, Karakas is unreliable against Marit as those decks tend to pack a lot of wasteland.


PS: I'm usually very unlucky when playing fair decks as I always meet the 4 or 5 guys playing combo at my LGS...

Conclusion on testing with Dualcaster Mage:
I have play tested with Dualcaster mage in ScapeWish (playing it as a mid-range deck 1st, combo as an additional wincon) extensively enough (around 50 matches) against a delver / elves / miracle / storm gauntlet and have came to the conclusion that it just isn't worth having.

Pros:

• Copying spells such as Treasure Cruise
• Acts as a counterspell against Force of Will allowing you to push through spells
• Is good at removing a creature (via copying spell) and acting as a chump blocker

Cons:

• Very situational based
• Used as a reactive spell instead of being a proactive spell
• Need to leave mana open at end of turn
• I never really found a situation where DCM would have made an impact on a game-state
• I never wanted a DCM until turn 5 at a minimum, it sucked drawing one in the opening hand and not being able to use it for anything

I have changed out the 2 DCMs for an Eternal Witness and Scavenging Ooze and increased my GSZ count back to 4. I am having more consistency with the deck now and it plays better (for the style I play with ScapeWish).

*Most broken thing I was able to do with DCM: Opponents TC on the stack, flash in DCM, copy TC, draw 3, counter opponents TC with newly drawn pyroblast.

If anyone has any other results with testing DCM, let me know so we can compare.

So it's been 3 weeks since I am working on a BUG Nic Fit shell.

Here is where I am at the moment:

Sultai Control Fit by Ralf

Main Deck

20 lands

4 Swamp
2 Island
2 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted delta
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea

12 creatures

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Baleful Strix
2 Glen Elendra Archmage

2 Jace, The Mindsculptor

2 Sensei's divining top

3 Pernicious deed

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
1 Empty the Pits

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Ponder
1 Maelstrom Pulse

Sideboard:

1 Vendilion Clique
1 Thragtusk
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Engineered Plague
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge


Summary:

This is a hard control deck akin Miracle. Don't expect to win fast. Every match is a grind. But you have access to powerful tools to either clog the board or to keep it empty.
You can win from nowhere in oneshot by resolving an Empty the Pits but usually you'll be killing with a bunch of 1/1, a Glen Elendra or a Jace.
Remember 20 cards in the yards = 10 zombie token at INSTANT SPEED.
This deck was built to abuse the former (akin Entreat in Miracle). I used to playing 2 but you only have just one shot:
- It resolves, you win
- It does not, you won't likely be able to recast one.


Choice's explanations

Lands

Well I've stretched it up to the maximum. 19 lands might be doable but you'll have to shave a baleful strix for another ponder and you'll also have to replace a basic by another dual to keep the magical numbers:
14 blue sources to be able to cast a blue cantrip by T1
14 black sources to be able to cast a DRS/Cabal Therapy by T1
13 green sources to be able to cast a Veteran/Abrupt Decay by T2

The particularity of this deck is to always go after basics. You will often need to play Pernicious Deed at least for 3 no later than Turn 6. 4 swamps are to:
- lure your opponent about the deck you are playing
- be able to reliably cast Empty the Pits.


Creatures

4 Veteran -> the core

3 Deathrite shaman -> the swiss army knife. You'll use far more often the "2 ping you" or "2 gain life" than the mana ability. Not to mention his ability to make you play around soft counters when it matters. I've played without Shaman for a while (because of Pernicious Deed) but the life gain ability & the ability to work around soft counters & grave strategies are a must given the current meta.

3 Baleful Strix -> Clogs the board and helps to advance the game into the midgame, requires answer from your opponent. Also good vs huge demon. Can be a therapy fodder when it has to. Replaces himself. Not so hot against red decks but at least it is a bolt or kind of a shock/forked you won't take in the face.

2 Glen Elendra Archmage -> Another flying "undying" blocker. MVP of multiple matchups whenever you get to resolve her. Her ability to protect any of your big spells (be it your game ending spell or a sweeper) or to have the "last word" against any game ending spell your opponent might want to play (entreat, bolt, Jace etc...) is far beyond imagining. Virtual CA with wings, she will be your main beater.


Planewalker

2 Jace, the Mindsculptor -> His major contender is Liliana of the Veil. I had a hard time to choose between the two of them. Jace makes up 2 more blue cards to be pitched to Force of Will (17 blue cards including Jace, 15 was definitely on the low end side). We all know about Jace & Liliana issues anyway. One can kill not the other, both are good to keep a board clear when facing only one threat. Cabal therapy + Jace works. Liliana's +1 ability can be painful until you have a sensei...
The major drawback is being blue with all the blue hate in the format at the moment.

However, having tested both a lot, I do think Jace, still, has a very light edge over Liliana. I won't lie saying that casting Jace is harder than casting Liliana. Higher risk, higher reward.


Digging/Fixing Suits

4 Brainstorm -> the core

2 Ponder -> I'm still pondering (pun intended) whether we should play ponder n°3 instead of Baleful Strix n°3. The ability to dig for answer with such a control deck is REAL as well as the ability to fix some low land keepable hands. I have died to unanswered delver a good share amount of time (or to whatever situation) a baleful strix could not answer. It is also inherently half a zombie token as soon as you've played it. Still, I have not found this equation's clue. One can also argue that with this 1-of sideboard strategy, ponder should be the way to go...

2 Sensei's divining top -> Akin miracles, you will need to hide your spell or to look, fetch, look again, fetch again, look again etc...


Nuking the world

3 Pernicious Deed -> Well we play Nic Fit for nuking the world. Unfortunately, this deck is usually not about making any advantage of it. Sure, you will somehow catch average players by 2/3 for 1 them. But usually, you'll nuke 1 for 1 or 2 for 2 etc... I haven't found any better replacement for Pernicious Deed as it also acts as a preventive way for being entreated etc...

3 Abrupt Decay -> The 4th is in the sideboard. Staple nothing more to say.

1 Maelstrom Pulse -> Catch all.

2 Golgari charm -> Special hate for token strategy, 1/1 swarm (Elfes), tricks with Strix (pun intended). Faster than toxic deluge, can hit enchantments (Eidolon, Counterbalance, Sneak attack etc...) and deals with THE annoyance named "True Name Nemesis" (pun intended)


I do apologize for the wall of text.
I hope some of you will "commit" into this deck (or even give any valuable feedbacks) as I really believe the hard control route is the way to make BUG Nic Fit a 1,5 tier deck.
I'm pretty sure their are a lot of roads to be explored (such as other sideboard options or main deck options aka Cunning Wish)

Moving forward I will explore the Cunning wish option to free some space in the MD among:
- 1 Empty the Pits
- 1 Force of Will
- 1 Golgari charm
etc...

Last word: if you are not a "do nothing" type of player, don't pick up this deck.

Thanks for reading.

What about sideboarding Sphere of Resistance against the noninteractive decks?

Came 25th in SCG Portland. Deck was gas. Will post my list/report when I get home

Question about BRG Punishing Nic Fit:

Is Liliana something I should go ahead and pick up if I plan to play the deck?

In looking for a second mana source, DRS is the correct choice due to its other abilities in addition to tapping for mana (I run 8 fetches)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Crow's Eye

Question about BRG Punishing Nic Fit:

Is Liliana something I should go ahead and pick up if I plan to play the deck?

In looking for a second mana source, DRS is the correct choice due to its other abilities in addition to tapping for mana (I run 8 fetches)?

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I like having Lilianas, although they tend to come out a lot in the current Young Pyromancer meta. DRS is a nice fun-of to snag off of GSZ. Helps chip away when the board is clogged, and the life gain is spicy.