Care to elaborate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
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Care to elaborate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
The card selection packages are usually slapdash - 4 Brainstorm, but then often odd assortments of 1 Crop, 1 Ponder, 1 Library. Singleton Wasteland with singleton Crop, the countersuites feel an odd mixture of 2s and 3s, and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
It's not so much singletons only, as much as a lot of numbers in Infect decks just looking damn weird and kind of unnatural coming from a Delver context.
(I crunched the ratios earlier and they roughly match RUGs, so that's not the problem, but the individual card choices)
Hey Polle. Currently at work so I'll provide a more detailed response later, but at first glance it seems like you're overboarding in the matchup. I used to have a similar problem against Jund, where my typical sideboard ins would be something like 3StP, 2 RiP, 2 Needle, 2 Flusterstorm, Grip, and Claim. In theory, it sounds great to have an answer for every single one of their threats. What you actually end up with though is 2 Flusterstorms in hand while the opponent casts rolling Tarmogoyfs, or discarding multiple copies of StP to an uncontested Lili +1, basically a mismatch of your answers to their questions. Counterspells are a nice catch-all that have a wider range and require fewer deck slots at the cost of being less strong in specific scenarios. By boarding them out, you're really diluting the power and speed of the deck which in turn leads to a longer game that we're not favored to win against Deathblade (Souls, zealous, and Snap StP overwhelms us in the end).Quote:
Originally Posted by PollePotDK
Consider leaving in 1-2 copies of FoW for high impact cards and leaving in Dazes on the play for tempo. I'd be less wild about boarding in your artifact hate, as the Needle does a fine job of shutting down both equipment and planeswalkers. Try to use soft permission to create a window to close the game out early, as their deck tends to thrive in the midrange of the game.
It's hard to evaluate because this deck has no generally accepted skeleton outside the 12 creatures/4 invigorate/4 nexus/4brainstorm. At first I thought the same as you but then I decided to do something about and changed the numbers. After all, the deck is basically built on Tom Ross's deck and he varies his list a lot between invitationals, opens and gp's. He had some weird numbers but many players have adjusted them from then on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
The most atypical thing is the 3 fow and 3 daze. This is understandable when you accept that the deck wants more to win than to control the game. I like the configuration because they are both 1-for-2's.
Good that you mentioned RUG delver because that's the closest comparison I have always thought of. We have roughly the same game plan, less disruption but our pump spells act as counters or removal a good part of the time so it's roughly the same.
I have personal issues with lists that play less than 4 Vines of Vastwood. That card is tailormade for infect so 2's and 3's really stick out in lists. I play 4 and I think everybody should. It is only bad (or less good) in combo matchups so I can accept lower numbers when expecting mostly combo.
When you see singletons, they are usually tutor targets or classified in a broader way: 1 Crop rotation is not a single crop but the 5th Nexus, second Pendelhaven or Wasteland. My 1-of Flusterstorm is the much needed 9th counter and my 1 Stifle is my 12th disruption spell against combos. I play 1 Become Immense because I want another (mostly) cheap and effective pump spell but hate to draw the second one and strand it in my hand.
I also have wondered the single Ponder and Library but decided against them since singles are random. I want to maximixe already existing cantrips before adding makeshifts. Okay, my cantrips are 4 Brainstorm and 3 Gitaxian probes. I feel for the people who don't like Probe as a full cantrip but it has other merits that help to manage the game. I have seen lists with 4 Ponder but don't know how they have performed.
Comparing to delver variants is a bit misleading. Delver decks tend to be tempo oriented decks, this is a combo deck with a turn 2 kill. The goal of the deck is to go fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
As was already mentioned there is no set rules for this deck beyond the 12 creatures, 4 brainstorm, 4 invigorate, 2 berserk, 4 inkmoth.
Ponder is less optimal than brainstorm when it comes to drawing out your combo pieces, but the shuffle effect is sometimes relevant.
Playing crop rotation makes utility lands like karakas, pendelhaven, wasteland fine as one ofs if you play two rotations it's like playing 3 of any one of them with two copies at instant speed.
Gitaxian probe is a great cantrip with the added benefit of gaining information 2-3 is perfect.
Vines of Vastwood is interesting. It protects against abrupt decay, but most of the time invigorate is just better so running less than 4 is ok.
I feel the opposite. Canadian Thresh is the closest comparison: we try play a threat fast and protect it until the game's over. This involves countering key spells and pushing the opponent slightly off balance with timed disruption - Sometimes Dazing a spell just to get their last land tapped is what is needed to win the game next turn. Our creatures are crappier then theirs so we need to pump them. Therefore we don't have room for all the control spells and cantrips.Quote:
Originally Posted by shocked439
qomori's list was the one that inspired the crunching:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
UG Ebola:
Mana: 20 (inc. Waste, Pendelhaven, Hierarch, no Nexus)
Threats: 12 (no Hierarch, inc. Nexus)
Pump: 7 (no Vines)
Protection: 14 (inc. Vines, Probe)
Selection: 7
RUG:
Mana: 18 (inc. Waste)
Threats: 12
Removal: 6
Protection: 16 (inc. Probe)
Selection: 8
Rug delver tries to stick a threat and use permission and mana denial to win the game while protecting their one threat. They have no combo element to the deck. While it is not a true combo deck like Omni tell it functions a lot more like a combo deck than a tempo deck. You are absolutely right sometimes dazing things to get them to tap out is all it takes to win, but that is why limiting the permission suite and knowing what to counter is key. I came to infect from delver decks and they play much different. RUG delver wants to play spells on their opponents turn and work in a more reactive way, infect is proactive and pushing the opponent. Sure the core construction can be considered similar play the play style is much different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
Speaking of playing, how well does Ebola kill combo?
Kinda with Hopo on this one, Infect feels more like a delver deck than a combo deck, especially in fair matchups. I've never thought of Infect as a proactive deck, there's just too much potential to get blown out by sweepers or unconditional spot removal if you take the role of the aggressor. Pump spells are inherent card disadvantage, you run into a lot of bad 1 for 2 trades if you're regularly taking the initiative in games.Quote:
Originally Posted by shocked439
There's definitely room to steal early wins with the right combination of cards, but I'd put that at around 5% of your games, maybe 10% if you're really good at gold fishing.
I feel like Infect is usually pretty proactive. You can't be reckless, but the primary use for your counterspells is the same as how Sneak and Show and Reanimator use them. Protect your combo and make it resolve. We can grind some, but only in certain matchups, and only with appropriate draws.
Maybe it's just semantics here, but I feel the extent of our proactivity is limited to resolving a threat. Of course you're going to go for a lethal sequence of pump spells in some situations, but I feel as though they're more often used to keep creatures alive. Most of what you're doing is done at instant speed as a reaction to your opponents answers, it generally feels wrong to be the one forcing action with spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Svyelunite
Related topic, how many of us feel this deck is more tempo than combo?
It's less combo then majority of people think. Not sure if tempo is the correct term, though. As a side note, this is one of the few aggro-combo-control decks out there. All roles are there to choose from but none of them is significantly strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Yeah, Elves is much the same thing. It's a midrange deck in a similar meta slot as Shardless, that role is the one it actually does splendidly, and does a passable Storm impression when the opportunity presents itself. It's not a combo deck primarily unless very explicitly built for it, but most people just look for the goldfish turn where the deck is pretty fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Infect is a tempo deck, through and through. The interesting thing about the deck is how much its threat level enables you to play mindgames to a far greater degree than most decks in the format or even Magic at all. Magic is typically a game of playing technically solid, even for really explosive decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Infect is unique in that every attack *can* kill you, so every attack can be an poke or empty threat, or it can be going for the throat. That threat level allows some unique bluffs that just don't exist otherwise. Storm and Elves can't routinely do that, S&T can't afford it. The only equivalent I can think of offhand is D&T activating Vial. That's another situation where you just have to decide if the threat is empty or not.
Hello everyone!
Haven't really posted in the Infect thread but I've been playing the deck quite a bit (along with my other primary decks, RUG Delver and D&T), but the recent discussion of the deck's dual nature as a tempo-combo deck has really piqued my interest. So I thought I'd pitch in with my thoughts and my list if that's all good.
I think Gerry Thompson's article on the "False Tempo" archetype is pretty nice - Infect fits very well into this and kind of reiterates what Zombie just mentioned: that Infect's power can come from unique bluffs, putting fear into your opponent and nickel and diming them to get the win. Or just sometimes t2 killing as well.
Personally I have preferred this approach, and as such have been playing Infect lists for some time which should look like shells very, very reminiscent of Delver variants (I play those lot as well). In the end, I actually think the deck resembles TC-era UR Delver somewhat (not as busted, of course), in that you act as as a half-assey aggro deck in the beginning of the game with light disruption, destabilising your opponent, and then killing the opponent with a flurry of burn spells (or in Infect's case, pump spells like Invigorate) along with some busted spells (Berserk and Become Immense) as part of the endgame.
Anyway, my list:
Creatures: (12)
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Noble Hierarch
Non-Creature Spells: (30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
3 Vines of the Vastwood
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Berserk
2 Become Immense
1 Spell Pierce
Lands: (18)
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
1 Pendelhaven
1 Forest
Sideboard:
2 Submerge
1 Envelop
1 Flusterstorm
1 Hydroblast
1 Crop Rotation
1 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
1 Sylvan Library
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Wasteland
The four Ponders and the four Force/Daze are probably the most divergent things here, and again, it's mores to push this list into the tempo spectrum rather than the combo spectrum. In fact, that's how I feel about Infect - deck lists, and also depending on match ups, allow Infect to exist on a sliding scale. On one end it performs as a Delver deck with a combo/pump flurry finish disrupting just enough to prevent the opponent (to answer Zombie's question, this is mainly how I feel vs. combo) from getting to their endgame before Infect's reach kill them off. On the other end it's a super-fast combo deck with counter backup.
I guess the lack of white splash due to my love of Become Immense and hatred of its dissynergy with Rest in Peace is also something. This list has very few flexes, with only the 3rd Vines and Spell Pierce as what I feel are flex, and these could be a range of things I want to try. Shocked439's utilisation of baby Jace seems pretty interesting as a Sylvan Library-esque slot that synergies quite well with our game plan, since Jace's susceptibility to removal is fine in a deck like ours that has plenty of potentially game ending threats.
Also Hopo, to answer your thoughts on 4 Ponder, it certainly makes the deck slower - you spend more time cantripping around rather than having lots of business spells - but I feel the consistency it adds makes up for this. I feel most importantly without Ponder I've had tough times with openers without Infecters, but with Ponder finding a threat has been much easier, allowing the deck to keep no-infected hands happily when a Ponder is there. It also feeds Become Immense faster.
A few other cards I'd also like to discuss:
- Display of Dominance. Loved this in DTT era when it fought Decay and destroyed Omniscience; any thoughts in this as anti Decay tech but also as a CB and Jace killer? It would likely be in the SB Vines slot (which has also been at times a Spellskite).
- Ensnare: I keep seeing this in deck lists... And have no idea why people have been trying it. Seems... Interesting?
Thanks everyone!
It's something I noticed way back when I played a ton of Mono-G Infect in Pauper. The only reason that deck ever worked was because anything in the red zone could just kill the opponent then and there. It was normal Magic, but the high stakes made it something strange. Now that I stop to think about it, creature-based combo decks have been my jam for pretty much my entire Magic history. It's amazing to be able to play normal Magic but then just "have it".Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns
I like the look of this list a lot.Quote:
Personally I have preferred this approach, and as such have been playing Infect lists for some time which should look like shells very, very reminiscent of Delver variants (I play those lot as well). In the end, I actually think the deck resembles TC-era UR Delver somewhat (not as busted, of course), in that you act as as a half-assey aggro deck in the beginning of the game with light disruption, destabilising your opponent, and then killing the opponent with a flurry of burn spells (or in Infect's case, pump spells like Invigorate) along with some busted spells (Berserk and Become Immense) as part of the endgame.
Anyway, my list:
Creatures: (12)
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Noble Hierarch
Non-Creature Spells: (30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
3 Vines of the Vastwood
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Berserk
2 Become Immense
1 Spell Pierce
Lands: (18)
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
1 Pendelhaven
1 Forest
Sideboard:
2 Submerge
1 Envelop
1 Flusterstorm
1 Hydroblast
1 Crop Rotation
1 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
1 Sylvan Library
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Wasteland
The four Ponders and the four Force/Daze are probably the most divergent things here, and again, it's mores to push this list into the tempo spectrum rather than the combo spectrum. In fact, that's how I feel about Infect - deck lists, and also depending on match ups, allow Infect to exist on a sliding scale. On one end it performs as a Delver deck with a combo/pump flurry finish disrupting just enough to prevent the opponent (to answer Zombie's question, this is mainly how I feel vs. combo) from getting to their endgame before Infect's reach kill them off. On the other end it's a super-fast combo deck with counter backup.
Goldfished it a bit. Feels nice and smooth thus far, but would probably like another threat in the maindeck.
That is a built-in feature of the lists without Crop Rotation :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
Yup. We'll see if I add one to the main. Thus far the deck feels pretty good, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
Why is no one running a Loam in the board like RUG pilots are? We have Wasteland, cheap to activate manlands that can chump things to death and kill people so we get endless threats unlike Delver pilots, and have crop rotation to put stuff in the yard and manadorks to facilitate casting things.
We have a Wasteland. That's enough of a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
I've never considered Loam. Your logic has merit, maybe I'll give it a try this weekend at Atlanta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
You can easily make the Pierce into a Crop Rotation, and that was what it used to be. However, the additional Ponders, at least to me, make up for the lack of threat density though, but you do of course sacrifice speed and lose the surprise Inkmoth kills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
I have once thought about this in the sideboard, but I think the main reason it's favoured in RUG is that they can use it both as a offensive card (recurring Wastelands) and also defensively (protecting from manascrew in Delver mirrors). We don't really have that ability to use Loam as a mana denial tool with our singleton Wasteland, but as a defensive measure (albeit very slow) with Dryad Arbor and Inkmoth chumping (or just recurring dead Inkmoths in general) could certainly make for some interesting interactions. I'd give it a try, but it seems a bit slow for my liking and I'm not too certain what matchups we'd want it for. Against RUG, Death & Taxes, Lands and other heavy mana denial decks perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
I was thinking of subbing a Ponder, actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns
Is there a reason no one is playing Null Rod on the board? I think a 1-1 split of Null Rod and Pithing Needle covers more bases.
Null Rod Pro's:
1. Versatility- can be effective vs. Miracles, Storm, MUD, and D&T.
2. 2 Mana- Easier to play into already established Counterbalance+Top.
Null Rod Con's:
1. Does nothing against deathrite shaman, jace, sneak attak, etc.
2. 2 Mana- harder to play while advancing our gameplan.
I'm curious as to your input.
On the subject of Null RodQuote:
Originally Posted by SFL-Brainstorm
Pros:
1. Rod is better against Storm and MUD without question. On the topic of Miracles, I like that Needle can hit random stuff like Karakas and Staticaster in addition to Divining Top. Against D&T its an interesting split, the versatility of Rod stretches across Jitte and Vial while Needle can also hit SFM, MoM, Wasteland, and Port. Granted the Jitte and Vial are two of the heaviest hitters, so it's really personal preference whether you want to target single cards or just two of the strongest ones.
2. Jamming this through a CB lock (or Chalice on one) is definitely a plus. That said, I'm unsure of the exact ratio of 1 cmc spells to 2 cmc spells in miracles.
So tl;dr it's probably a meta call. Null Rod seems better against Storm, MUD, Painter, and maybe Tezz decks, so I'd play it if you have a lot of those in your meta. Needle is better against an open field as it's slightly weaker but has more versatility and overall uses.
Edited: Mixed up rod and needle in the first line
How in tarnation is Needle better against Storm? It can hit, what, fetchlands? While Rod shuts down LED and Petal.
You're 100% correct. Was a typo, fixed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
Here is my current list. I'm open to all sorts of suggestions, specifically focusing on a more open SCG metagame. Trying to tune for SCG Philadelphia at the end of February.
UGw Infect
Creatures (12)
4x Blighted Agent
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Glistener Elf
Spells (29)
1x Become Immense
3x Force of Will
4x Invigorate
3x Daze
3x Gitaxian Probe
3x Vines of Vastwood
1x Crop Rotation
2x Berserk
2x Spell Pierce
2x Ponder
1x Flusterstorm
4x Brainstorm
Lands (19)
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Wasteland
1x Savannah
4x Tropical Island
1x Pendelhaven
4x Inkmoth Nexus
Sideboard (15)
1x Force of Will
2x Krosan Grip
2x Rest in Peace
1x Absolute Law
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
1x Vines of Vastwood
1x Crop Rotation
1x Flusterstorm
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Karakas
1x Bojuka Bog
From personal experience, I'd say that if you're planning to run the white splash version, you probably don't need the crop rotation, karakas, bojuka bog package. Just add a Grafdigger's Cage or Surgical Extraction, and you will have 2 extra slots for other stuff. I typically go with something like a Blue Elemental Blast and Sylvan Library for an Open metagame. I'd suggest the Blue Blast for sure because you're taking a big risk of getting destroyed by Blood Moon by not having a Basic Forest and the extra counter/removal for BM can help a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by SFL-Brainstorm
how committed to the white sideboard are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by SFL-Brainstorm
You are running a ton of permission in the main.
I won't register an infect list without green sun's zenith main. Card is real good.
I would consider adding Jace, vryn's prodigy, Sylvan Library and dryad arbor. If you add arbor you might consider dropping your tropical count to 3. I've also become a fan viridian corrupter somewhere in the 75.
I'd recommend finding room for a Nature's Claim in the sideboard. Hitting 3 mana through mana denial strategies is a pretty difficult thing to do, and many of the decks that have problematic artifacts and enchantments aren't playing Countermagic.Quote:
Originally Posted by SFL-Brainstorm
I've been running a Seal of Primordium instead of Nature's Claim. Cost's 1-more, but you can also slam it down early and make them find enchantment removal before they can disrupt you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
SFL - I'd recommend cutting one Trop for a basic Forest. Now that we're not trying to cast DTT, I don't think the extra blue source is necessary.
Hey y'all. Quick recap of the Legacy Super IQ I played in Memphis this past weekend. 72 people in attendance. They say Legacy is dead...
Decklist for reference:
4x Glistener Elf
4x Blighted Agent
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Viridian Corrupter
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Crop Rotation
4x Brainstorm
2x Gitaxian Probe
1x Ponder
3x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
1x Flusterstorm
1x Stifle
2x Daze
4x Invigorate
3x Vines of Vastwood
2x Berserk
1x Become Immense
4x Tropical Island
1x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Windswept Heath
1x Wasteland
1x Pendelhaven
SB:
K. Grip
Seal of Primordium
Nature's Claim
Teferi's Response
Blue Elemental Blast
Flusterstorm
Force of Will
Crop Rotation
Bojuka Bog
Karakas
Sylvan Safekeeper
Submerge
Grafdigger's Cage
Pithing Needle
Sylvan Library
R1 - Burn
I lost game 2 because I couldn't find an Infector fast enough, but the other 2 games were pretty much like it always goes. Combo kill as soon as you're ready, they can't beat our clock because they pay 1 mana to deal 3 damage and we pay zero to deal 8...
R2 - TES (1-0)
I win game one because my opponent cracked 3 fetchlands and cast 3 Gitaxian Probes before casting his Ad Nauseum. He hit too many cantrips and died when he revealed Empty. Game 2 I have an all green card hand and he dies to straight beats before he can go off. It's likely he messed up because he could have used a lotus petal in hand to cast a cabal therapy taking my berserk, but he didn't think it was worth it because I didn't have any more pump spells. Guess what was on top :cool:
R3 - Infect (white splash) (2-0)
I love the mirror match. Unlike most mirrors, I feel like Infect is a very complicated dance of deploying threats, and trying to not get any spells countered. It took 3 games, and I had to get a little lucky that my opponent didn't have a pump spell on a critical turn, but it all worked out and I ended up squeaking out a win.
Worth noting, the white splash definitely gives you the advantage in the mirror. That said, my opponent boarded in Necropede and Spellskite so my MD Viridian Corrupter made me look like a genius. Not implying he was wrong to do so, just that I had (arguably) the best counter step to his plan.
R4 - Aggro Loam (3-0)
I won game 1 on a quick combo kill after he had to keep a sketchy mull to 6. Game 2 I botched so bad I'm almost embarrassed to admit it. I had a pair of Inkmoths, a Glistener Elf and a Hierarch. I decide that because I can't pump kill him I'll just animate both Inkmoths and get in for 3. Surprise Zach, he has Golgari charm and you're getting a free ticket to blown out city... Game 3 he opens Thoughtseize into Chalice on 1, into Liliana of the Veil, into Knight of the Reliquary. I get steamrolled by that nonsense.
R5 - Elves (3-1)
A nice easy match to assuage my aching ego. I win the die roll, open on Hierarch. he plays Bayou Nettle Sentinel. I Wasteland him, and play Glistener Elf. He plays a fetchland and passes back. I attack and kill him with Invigorate/Berserk even after he blocks. Game 2 he mulls to 4 and keeps a no lander... Dies 4 turns later.
R6 - Shardless Sultai (4-1)
I check the matchups and I'm pretty sure if I win this I can draw into Top 8. I know he's on Shardless (which in my opinion is a rough matchup) so I am ecstatic when I see a T2 kill with Daze backup. I'm on the draw, but his first turn is just a land and pass. I decide I have to try for it, even if I can't stop an Abrupt Decay. He tries to play a Baleful Strix on his turn 2 which I Daze. The next turn I draw Gitaxian Probe and see that the coast is clear for the kill (and he didn't have the decay anyway). Whew, got lucky. Game 2 I mull to six, see a Hierarch on top and keep it. He opens on a Thoughtseize, taking one of my 2 Glistener Elves. I had only a single Invigorate when he saw my hand. I draw and play Noble Hierarch, Git Probe revealing Strix, Lili and garbage. I draw Stifle and pass. He plays a fetch and Baleful Strix. My turn is a land, Elf, and pass. I drew a Force of Will for Turn. My opponent attacks with Strix and taps out for Toxic Deluge of 1. I Force it, leaving me with only Invigorate in hand. My Force works and I draw Invigorate for my turn. 4 + 4 + 1 + 1 (exalted) = 10. Better lucky than good...
R7 - Aggro Loam (5-1)
ID into top 8. This will make me the 6th seed. My friends and I scurry off to Burger King to get some cheap chicken nuggets while we have a free 45 minutes.
Quarterfinals - ANT
G1: Opponent opens on Duress taking my Force of Will. I play Glistener Elf and pass. He plays a second land, Duresses again and takes my Invigorate. Cabal Therapy follows and takes my Noble Hierarch. My hand is now a fetch land and a Wasteland. I draw Gitaxian Probe, play it and see that I'm dead. I attack for 1 and pass hoping somehow he screws up. Obviously he doesn't... he made top 8 after all.
G2: I mulligan to a 6 card hand of all green spells and land and push another Land to the bottom with my Scry. Turn 1 I play a Glistener Elf and pass. He duresses and takes my Invigorate. I draw a land, play it, Vines my Elf and attack for 5. He draws misses a land drop and passes. I draw, Vines again and he dies. Haha victory!
G3: My opener has a Ponder, Gitaxian Probe, Blighted Agent, Trop, Fetch, Force of Will, and Berserk. My opponent mulligans, scrys to the top, and blind Therapies Force of Will off of an Underground Sea, surprise he hits. I draw Invigorate, Gitaxian Probe and see 3x Cabal Ritual, Lotus Petal, Infernal Tutor. Wow this guys draws are incredible. Git Probe draws me a Spell Pierce (my draws are also incredible sometimes) and I play my Trop and pass. He draws and plays Lotus Petal. He cracks it and casts Cabal Ritual. I allow it. He casts a second Ritual which I spell pierce. Back to my turn. I decide its worth the risk to tap out and hope to fade a draw step from him. I cast Blighted Agent and pass (drew Flusterstorm for the turn). My opponent draws, duresses and takes my Invigorate and passes back. I draw a fetchland, ponder, seeing 3 more lands, shuffle and draw a Glistener Elf. I attack for 1 and pass back (pretending maybe I have more permission). At this point I don't think its worth casting the Elf because I need to hit a pump spell to kill him before I run out of permission so it doesn't really matter. My opponent draws and Ponders. I allow it and he draws and plays a fetchland. My turn yeilds more junk draws so I attack for 1 again, play a land and pass. Opponent cracks his fetchland, draws and casts Cabal Therapy. I allow and he takes Flusterstorm. I know he can't go off now, but next turn he'll get me if I don't find a counterspell or a pump spell. I draw Brainstorm for the turn, cast it finding 2 junkers and another Brainstorm. I put back the junk, crack a fetch and cast another Brainstorm. This one yeilds elf, land and Invigorate. Invigorate and Berserk kills him in the nick of time!
Semifinals - Shardless Sultai
This match is a rematch of Round 6. I don't remember all the details, but suffice to say that game 1 I could have won if my second land was any land other than Inkmoth. I am unable to protect my Glistener Elf to combo kill him the next turn and his stream of removal runs deep. Game 2 was comical how badly he gets me. TS into Decay, Lili, Wasteland and Disfigure eats my lunch and in less than 15 minutes my tournament is over.
We all agreed to split the cash for top 4, so mark this event as +$200 and another successful performance for the little poisonous men. :smile:
Congrats on the top 4! Some questions for you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Svyelunite
The permission configuration is atypical with 2x Daze and the Flusterstorm. What's the thought process behind this, how did you feel about it throughout the tournament, and is it something you see yourself doing in future events?
How do you feel about GSZ? I noticed from your report that you rarely cast it, wondering if that's because you've had no luck drawing it or if you've always had a better play. Related, how did you feel about maindeck Viridian?
In what matchups does Sylvan Safekeeper come in? I've found it tends to get swept away by Deluge or Golgari Charm more often than it sticks around for value.
Was the spread of Naturalize effects ever relevant? Would you go up or down on any numbers in an open meta?
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
I always run one Flusterstorm maindeck so that's normal for me. I decided to drop a Daze and run an extra Spell Pierce main deck because the room had a slightly higher amount of Burn and Storm than I think most metas would. Also, Delver decks were scarce (crazy no?) and I think they're some of the best matchups for Daze. I ran a permission spread similar to this when I top 8'd SCG Worcester and it felt pretty good then. It was a similar meta with a lot more Storm/OmniTell than usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Side note: I actually very much dislike the card Daze, but I feel its a necessary evil given Legacy's speed and efficiency. Kinda like FoW but even more gut wrenching as a late-game top deck...
Part of the issue is that as a 1 of you don't draw it very often. I think I ended up casting it like 2 times during the event. My reports are sometimes a little consolidated (ie I don't get every detail exact haha). I like GSZ if you are going to run some package of tutor targets for it. I choose to run V. Corrupter as my MD tutor guy and Safekeeper out of the board as another. If you don't run the 1 of tutor guys GSZ is better served as another G.Probe or Ponder or something. Some people use Dryad Arbor, but I don't like him very much. The MD Viridian is one of my best friends. He's about the only way you're getting out of a Chalice, Ensnaring Bridge or Jitte matchup game 1 unless you kill them really quickly. I also like Corrupter in a meta heavier on Shardless because Baleful Strix sucks balls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Safekeeper is good against most decks with Red removal. I especially like him against Lands and Grixis or Temur Delver. He's solid against Shardless because it's like a Vines you don't get Hymn'd or TS'd, but you're right, Lili, G. Charm and Deluge still get us. My run at GP SeaTac wouldn't have been possible with him so until he fails me, his spot in my SB is secure ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Not at all. I usually only have 2 K. Grips, but I decided to try something different and it was pretty much irrelevant. I think 2-3 Naturalizes is always a good idea. IMO Nature's Claim is the worst because it gets beat by the cards you want the effect against most (Chalice and Counterbalance), but I don't fault people for following Tom Ross's lead and running it anyway. If you are afraid of getting 3 mana reliably enough, I'd suggest 2x Seals and 1x K. Grip, or just 1 of each. YRMV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Whenever I ran GSZ Sylvan Safekeeper was always a slot I loved too, but thought was maybe too cute. Glad to hear that's not the case and its actually been incredibly valuable to you!
Does anybody have advice for those facing infect?
This thing is terrifying, and although I currently have a positive record against it, I never seem to be able to identify what I'm doing wrong against it when I lose, or worse, what I'm doing right against it when I win.
Fucking terrifying.
To clarify, are you asking about the mirror?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordslinger
I think he's talking about how to play against the deck with something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Would help if we knew what deck you're playing Worldslinger.
The big thing about Infect is that it plays with threat. That's the juice that makes the deck work at all. It's not very good at playing RUG, it's not that amazing as a combo deck because of relying on puny creatures getting through on the attack step, etc. But it has a ton of explosive threat value, which is key. It makes the deck hard to play against. Just keep in mind that they don't impede your resource development nearly as much as RUG does, for example. Develop resources, avert the explosive scenario and you'll probably find it much easier to handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordslinger