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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
It is totally better than Mentor.
I play Karakas + Clique, he plays a non flying with built in Karakas 3/3.
I can see his choice being very good. My creatures suffer Liliana, LH +1.
Brightling doesn’t and can still swing for 2 after that.
Overall it totally jumps over Terminus and can chump block eternally protecting your Planeswalkers.
I was thinking to test it in a deeper pws list.
I see AnziD did it already. I would still have stayed on 4 Snapcaster Mage though, but I m in love with Clique and not moving
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
It is totally better than Mentor.
I play Karakas + Clique, he plays a non flying with built in Karakas 3/3.
I can see his choice being very good. My creatures suffer Liliana, LH +1.
Brightling doesn’t and can still swing for 2 after that.
Overall it totally jumps over Terminus and can chump block eternally protecting your Planeswalkers.
I was thinking to test it in a deeper pws list.
I see AnziD did it already. I would still have stayed on 4 Snapcaster Mage though, but I m in love with Clique and not moving
Brightling needs 3 white mana. I don't like it.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wtgger
Brightling needs 3 white mana. I don't like it.
I play UW so the W mana is not such a drawback for me.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
It is totally better than Mentor.
I play Karakas + Clique, he plays a non flying with built in Karakas 3/3.
I can see his choice being very good. My creatures suffer Liliana, LH +1.
Brightling doesn’t and can still swing for 2 after that.
Overall it totally jumps over Terminus and can chump block eternally protecting your Planeswalkers.
I was thinking to test it in a deeper pws list.
I see AnziD did it already. I would still have stayed on 4 Snapcaster Mage though, but I m in love with Clique and not moving
yeah i originally had a control build with 3 snaps and 2 Vclique, but I only play 2 Jace so the go wide strategy that mentor provides allowed me to protect him more + gave me a stronger beatdown. I play UW w/ MB 2 flusterstorms and 3 CB so my game against storm and Sneak and show is relatively solid game 1.
the other reason I like mentor is that it gives me at least 2 creatures even in the face of removal, play a spell get a token, while I would need to depend on W mana to protect Brightling and it can still get got
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Mentor is normally fantastic against their removal but he totally sucks against ours. That’s the problem
I see Mentor as a SB choice in UW Helm creatureless list that you side in when you can side out your Terminus.
Otherwise it is just a super late game card that allows you to win after you have already stabilized and you are already there.
Clique instead helps you since turn 3 and against wastelands less decks (Mirror and Combo) with Karakas it just wins the match on its own. It surely sucks against red and black. That’s where Mentor shines, but that is where Brightling and his Lifelink shines as well AND he’s great with 4 Terminus. I would have already tested it, if a pairs wasn’t sold for 50$
We should simply choose which one is MD and which one is SB. Probably both are solid choices.. Clique just suits my play style much more. I would play 7
Another solid and untested route is
Mentor
Meekstone
Kozilek’s Return / Izzet Staticaster
Super interesting imho. You just suffer Eldrazi a little more but you have B2B Meekstone MD and you can play Propaganda and Stony Silence SB
And KR can be flashbacked with our 4 SCM for endless joy.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
Mentor is normally fantastic against their removal but he totally sucks against ours. That’s the problem
I see Mentor as a SB choice in UW Helm creatureless list that you side in when you can side out your Terminus.
Otherwise it is just a super late game card that allows you to win after you have already stabilized and you are already there.
Clique instead helps you since turn 3 and against wastelands less decks (Mirror and Combo) with Karakas it just wins the match on its own. It surely sucks against red and black. That’s where Mentor shines, but that is where Brightling and his Lifelink shines as well AND he’s great with 4 Terminus. I would have already tested it, if a pairs wasn’t sold for 50$
We should simply choose which one is MD and which one is SB. Probably both are solid choices.. Clique just suits my play style much more. I would play 7
Another solid and untested route is
Mentor
Meekstone
Kozilek’s Return / Izzet Staticaster
Super interesting imho. You just suffer Eldrazi a little more but you have B2B Meekstone MD and you can play Propaganda and Stony Silence SB
And KR can be flashbacked with our 4 SCM for endless joy.
unfortunately I don't play red (2 Volcanic Islands=700$), but you make some sensible arguments for Brightling. maybe I'll get a couple to try out
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
It is difficoult to go very far without Red. Miracle is major and to kill Jace Counterbalance and FoW for R is a remarkable asset.
Worth nothing that it can flashback
Edit: oh yea it just shuts off Show and Tell and kills Omniscience too (who is packing back again Boseiju, by the way)
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Primordial Mist seems like a very janky card from Commander 2018 that could.... find a home here. Endless stream of 2/2s that starts the turn you cast it, and the 2/2's are probably decent spells.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kanti
Primordial Mist seems like a very janky card from Commander 2018 that could.... find a home here. Endless stream of 2/2s that starts the turn you cast it, and the 2/2's are probably decent spells.
waaaayyyyy too expensive, and highly unnecessary with mentor. also you mess up your miracle draws, and you tend to want to cast your cantrips and counters rather than turn them into creatures
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
After the flashback it has given you the card of Predict and Predict in this deck is flashbackable for double the cards
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
After the flashback it has given you the card of Predict and Predict in this deck is flashbackable for double the cards
Don't be quick to dismiss new card choices. Snapcasters often are overloaded for StP flashback duties. Having TT in the graveyard allows you to create a draw trigger without other cards' help. In my limited testing, TT is able to create timely prowess triggers, much more controllable than Predict or Portent.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Yes if you’re playing Mentor flashbackable instants are great. I have stopped playing Mentor apart from the SB because you invest in building an army and normally you have to erase everything with Terminus for a couple of flyers that would kill you otherwise.
I prefer investing in Planeswalkers nowadays.. if only they had flash :rolleyes:
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
IMO Think Twice is a horrible card that only sees play in an extremely inbreed meta like mtgo.
But maybe I am just salty because I lost 2 out of 2 mirrors against people playing it, because there it is obviously strong.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
It doesn’t make any sense. Is your list the same in MTGO as it is in real life?
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
twndomn
Don't be quick to dismiss new card choices. Snapcasters often are overloaded for StP flashback duties. Having TT in the graveyard allows you to create a draw trigger without other cards' help. In my limited testing, TT is able to create timely prowess triggers, much more controllable than Predict or Portent.
People are keen to dismiss anything new. Think about how long Ponder+BS+Portent+Predict was around in the meta. Since freaking Lorwyn basically, whenever Ponder was first printed. Years later people finally found out it fuels a pretty busted card, Predict.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Talking about weird cantrips, Telling Time is fun. It fixes top, mills a land and cantrips you a chosen card at Instant speed.
Not sure I would play it in place of Portent or Predict though
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
Talking about weird cantrips, Telling Time is fun. It fixes top, mills a land and cantrips you a chosen card at Instant speed.
Not sure I would play it in place of Portent or Predict though
As long as we're listing off bad cards, including cantrips that can't actually proc' a miracle trigger ("put into hand"), we should at least mention Hieroglyphic Illumination. :cool:
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Fixing:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2018-08-06
top 6 for accumulated knowledge + mentor build, the user is a buddy of mine too!
and
Top9 for another mentor build
both build left CB at home or in the sideboard only.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NegatorITA
Looking at the variety of decks in these top 8's, it looks like legacy is finally at a healthy place again. I am very happy about this.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fox
As long as we're listing off bad cards, including cantrips that can't actually proc' a miracle trigger ("put into hand"), we should at least mention
Hieroglyphic Illumination. :cool:
Well against Leovold it’s a pro.
It’s true that Think Twice is super good for timely Prowess and Miracle triggers.. yes perhaps it should be tested. You can cast it and forget it for 30 turns..
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
Well against Leovold it’s a pro.
It’s true that Think Twice is super good for timely Prowess and Miracle triggers.. yes perhaps it should be tested. You can cast it and forget it for 30 turns..
Tryed the ak list tonight, not impressed by ak, the first is terrible, the second is decent, if you live to beat a third good, but it may have been to late... Unsure.
Missed the ability to check the to and pick mana or spells with stuffs like extra preordain/portent
For sure fextra fluster and counterspell maindeck over cb were still good
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Super true. AK is fantastic in the mirror and in some super grindy matchup, surely not against combo or pressing delver aggro decks.
I find myself losing/suffering too much to Gaddock Teeg.
That little dwarf blanks out Jace, Terminus, E.E, occasional Entreat, Supreme Verdict and so on.
Elves, Goblin, DnT and occasional aggro delver can bring back a lot of sense to Kozilek’s Return
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Anyway guys Esper and Grixis are strictly better than Jeskay
Just consider Stoneblade package + 4 Terminus +4 Bitterblossom.
Snapcaster + Hymn to Tourach and Unearth on Snapcaster Mage targeting Unearth targeting SFM TNN or Mentor is just overkill
IMHO black is the new deal but good cards come in double colored mana
Jace
Liliana, Hymn
Council’s Judgment and Humility
With the loss of red we lose Blood Moon but we gain access to Contamination and Bitterblossom. Definitely to be considered
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
Anyway guys Esper and Grixis are strictly better than Jeskay
Just consider Stoneblade package + 4 Terminus +4 Bitterblossom.
Snapcaster + Hymn to Tourach and Unearth on Snapcaster Mage targeting Unearth targeting SFM TNN or Mentor is just overkill
IMHO black is the new deal but good cards come in double colored mana
Jace
Liliana, Hymn
Council’s Judgment and Humility
With the loss of red we lose Blood Moon but we gain access to Contamination and Bitterblossom. Definitely to be considered
And Animatou if u're playing Esper.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wtgger
And Animatou if u're playing Esper.
3 terminus
4 swords to plowshares
2 counterspell
4 thoughtseize
4 animatou, the fateshifter
1 council's judgment
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
2 predict
4 force of will
2 entreat the angels (bc of animatou)
1 vendilion clique
4 snapcaster mage
3 underground sea
3 tundra
1 karakas
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
4 island
2 plains
Something like that.
And 1-2 toxic deluge in sideboard.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Aminatou just doesn't seem powerful enough to me. I think thoughtseize and deluge are the main reasons for Esper. I've been leaning this direction because the red blasts have been close to worthless in my meta.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
Anyway guys Esper and Grixis are strictly better than Jeskay
With the loss of red we lose Blood Moon but we gain access to Contamination and Bitterblossom. Definitely to be considered
What!? Red Blast effect and Blood Moon are much more powerful and versatile than Contamination and Bitterblossom.
I feel you guys have confused yourself with Esper Mentor and Esper Stoneblade. All shaheen soorani does is esper stoneblade, just google his articles, hanni on this forum is also an expert on that matter.
Esper Mentor used to be a thing because therapy + Probe. Issue with Mentor is that there're so many dread of night running around at this point in time.
If I play Mentor, the only 2 black cards on my radar would Engineered Plague and Surgical.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wtgger
3 terminus
4 swords to plowshares
2 counterspell
4 thoughtseize
4 animatou, the fateshifter
1 council's judgment
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
2 predict
4 force of will
2 entreat the angels (bc of animatou)
1 vendilion clique
4 snapcaster mage
3 underground sea
3 tundra
1 karakas
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
4 island
2 plains
Something like that.
And 1-2 toxic deluge in sideboard.
I just built an esper miracles list just to try Aminatou. A few things that I addressed while building it was using Aminatou's + and - abilities to their fullest potential. This means running counterbalances since we can better control what is on the top of our deck with the + ability. This also allows us to run predict again to get rid of top deck garbage. Im also running Jace TMS, and Teferi. With animatou's - ability you can get double planeswalkers activations in a single turn, and reset the planeswalkers loyalty every other turn. My creature package then would be a venser, shaper savant, a vendillion clique and of course snapcaster mage which all are synergistic with Aminatou.
The main deck is pretty much a standard miracles shell except for the mana base changes to support black, and the Aminatou. However the sideboard is where I incorporated more black discard effects.
See decklist below
4 snapcaster mage
1 venser, shaper savant
1 vendillion Clique
2 Aminatou, the Fateshifter
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 swords to plowshares
2 portent
3 predict
2 counterbalance
1 entreat the angels
1 councils judgment
4 force of will
3 Terminus
1 engineered explosives
2 island
2 plains
3 tundra
3 underground sea
1 karakas
4 Flooded strand
4 polluted delta
1 marsh flats
SB:
4 Thoughtseize
1 spell pierce
2 flusterstorm
3 surgical extraction
2 monastery mentor
1 back to basics
2 disenchant
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ceralyst
I just built an esper miracles list just to try Aminatou. A few things that I addressed while building it was using Aminatou's + and - abilities to their fullest potential. This means running counterbalances since we can better control what is on the top of our deck with the + ability. This also allows us to run predict again to get rid of top deck garbage. Im also running Jace TMS, and Teferi. With animatou's - ability you can get double planeswalkers activations in a single turn, and reset the planeswalkers loyalty every other turn.
I find it very interesting that you have emphasized the synergy between Animatou and the other PW (although there is however to consider that the double effect prevents them from climbing loyalty points).
However I think your list is a little too heavy in terms of mana cost.
Teferi has a very strong effect but 5 mana are really too many.
A portent less and a predict more instead is a beautiful thought.
In any case, I believe that at least three animau must be played on the esper list.
Main counterbalance can be there; mine was an example list indeed.
Let us know how the tests will go, I'm curious to see if Animatou will be the card that will definitely shift the balance towards the dark side of the force, in this case the black color (which against combo decks is definitely better than red).
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Aminatou, the Fateshifter has great synergy with ensnaring bridge. Use her flaw in not creating card advantage to our advantage. Perhaps a planeswalker prison strategy with 3-4 bridge could work. Get maximum value out of Throne of Geth :P
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
I would rather play the fourth Jace before the first Animatou.
The “draw and replace” ability is incomparable as well as the -1
This said, Bitterblossom is fantastic with 4 Terminus and equipments. This must have a margin
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Wasn't the first Miracles deck a pillow fort-like list? Are we moving back towards that?
Or is this deck just not good anymore?
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Does anyone have a persistent invite link to the miracles discord?
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
German Nationals Side Legacy Event on Sunday with 45 Players. I was on UW-Miracles after days of not wanting to decide between Miracles or Stoneblade. I had no real success with miracles since I came to it from blade, but my friends convinced me to give it the shot. My Decklist: Instant (17)
4x Brainstorm
1x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
2x Predict
2x Spell Pierce
4x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (11)
1x Council's Judgment
4x Ponder
2x Portent
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Terminus
Planeswalker (2)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Land (20)
4x Flooded Strand
6x Island
1x Marsh Flats
3x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
2x Tundra
Enchantment (4)
2x Back to Basics
2x Counterbalance
Creature (5)
2x Monastery Mentor
3x Snapcaster Mage
Artifact (1)
1x Engineered Explosives
Sideboard (15)
1x Containment Priest
2x Disenchant
1x Entreat the Angels
1x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Flusterstorm
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
1x Search for Azcanta Flip
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Vendilion Clique
Round 1 vs Eldrazi Stompy
Game1:
He opens with a jitte from ancient tomb after a mulligan to 6. Next turn he plays matter reshaper . I sword it and show him a t3 back to basics. The reshaper gets sworded one round later, he deploys a mimic, I get that and the jitte with explosives...mentor takes it.
Game2:
I see another nice 7. He goes to 6 again. Chalice gets forced and with 3 lands back to basics makes the comeback. Terminus gets rid of everything on board till there…GG
Round2 vs 8-Moon
Game1:
I keep a beautiful 7 with 3 lands, stp, ponder, brainstorm and spell pierce on the play. He goes to 6 and opens with city of traitors into chalice on 1…fuck… draw a land…turn2 he playes a trinisphere. My draw that turn are the explosives… I make my landdrops and he struggles to find mana after his city is gone t2. I deploy jace and he gets tu ultimate uncontested.
Game2:
I have a very nice hand with 3 basics (2islands/1 plains). His early plays are smugglers copter. I get jace down but can not avoid that he gets to 3 mana. Hblood moon is not that bad for me now, but when jace is at 11 he it’s a creature. He swings jace down 3 with the copter and I stp his magus.
We play this game for some turns and finally He swings with 2 copters at jace getting him to 1 and deploying a revoker same turn. He has no cards in hand and I had set the trap with terminus on top of my library. My game
Round 3:
UB-Shadow
Game1:
He gets his life down fast and deploys some threats (Delver/Angler) that get answered. I get both with stp and snapcaster -> stp. Chaining some spells we get to a state where I have deployed a mentor facing 2 shadow on 7/7. His hand seems to be arcward, because I plays the third one on the board. I have stp in hand, get 3 for 1 and mentor takes the rest.
Game2:
Same game, better end for him. i had a mentor but he had dread of night. .. his shadow kills me some time after
Game3:
A very grindy game. He gets a successful ltlh down, but endstep snapcaster and next turn endstep clique get him. I get a counterbalance down. Sadly he gets bitterblosom down. we grind as hell and a timely terminus and a verdict that beats his drawn countermagic control the board. He bleeds that from the lifedrain with me at 3 life
Round4:
Sneak and Show:
Game1:
His hand has 3 show and tell…he finds griseldaddy, I get 2 countered, the third gets me..draw14…sneak attack, emrakul..dead
Game2:
I get a medium hand but an disentchant. It is nuts against his early sneak attack. He deploys another I go for snapcaster disentchant. He goes for the wish, I have a fluster. Mentor takes the game some time later.
Game3:
I open a hand without force but with 2 spell pierce. He has no t1 play and I prays the gods. I win every upcoming counterwar and mentor takes the game protected by a containment priest in my hand.
Round5:
RUG-Delver:
GAme1:
I mulligan to 5. he struggles to find gas. On his turn 3 he takes the ponder, shuffles and draws. I take a second and fire a blind predict on him hopping to find my 3 land. I name delver…got it. I find my land, get in the game with back to basics and counterbalance and take it.
Game2:
I have an early RIP, but he takes me to 3 down. I struggle to get him dead and would die to a bolt because fluster and pierce are dead against his lands. But mentor and portent on him get me there.
Round6:
I.D. for undefeated after swiss into the Top8.
We split the prieces in the Top8 bevor they get played. To get a Standing it will be played nonetheless.
Quarterfinals:
RUG again:
I have to mull both games and get flooded very hard..he takes them easy…
But I am happy with my prices and having the feeling I did a lot right in that tournament!
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
Clique and Mentor suffer Terminus
Brightling doesn’t fly and doesn’t flash in
Gideon is so slow it would need a fucking Stasis to do something.
Hasbro, print us a new finisher please.
We definitely need the double pws situation.. Jace and?
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
I endure on my view. I have built SnS, never won so much and so fast in my life.
The first game was a turn 2 kill SnT Omni Emrakul.
That deck is a joke.
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
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Re: [DTB] UWx Miracle Control
In my opinion AK can be al alternative to Jace
If you go Jeskai you can deal with his Jace with Pyroblast and play AK if you stay Azorius you should play 3 Jace
Overall double U is ok to have but 4 mana sorcery with dual lands around are quite risky
Additionally to have access to Blood Moon makes their Jaces much worse
I think I’ll try that (no Jace Jeskai and Azorius Jace alternatives).
I still don’t like our finishers and please notice the GP winner isn’t playing Mentor at all.
I totally like the UW hard control shell (2 CJ 2 Verdict 3 Terminus) and with that shell we need to win with pws.
3 Jaces are not enough imho. Pyroblast is too common
