[Deck] Zoo

For reference here's my current list:

23 Land
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

20 Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kird Ape

17 Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
2 Sylvan Library
2 Fireblast
2 Umezawa's Jitte

15 Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Orim's Chant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Pyroclasm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Kataki, War's Mage
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

The only suspect cards are the number of Sylvan Libraries and the Umezawa's Jitte main deck. I'm not sure whether to run the 4th Grim Lavamancer or not. I hate drawing that card in multiples. Any ideas?

So I'm definitely cutting Grim Lavamancer. I never want to see him, and he sucks on turn one. I rape Merfolk/Goblins enough already. I'm replacing the 3x Lavamancer with 3x Mother of Runes. Whenever I come up against this card with Zoo, I lose every game. I've seen the "light" and realized how freaking insane the card is. It does what the deck need, which is push through damage when the game is in a stall. Plus, it can be used to save random creatures from removal, and get past Jitte(Which also beats Zoo). +1 to Mother of Runes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch

So I'm definitely cutting Grim Lavamancer. I never want to see him, and he sucks on turn one. I rape Merfolk/Goblins enough already. I'm replacing the 3x Lavamancer with 3x Mother of Runes. Whenever I come up against this card with Zoo, I lose every game. I've seen the "light" and realized how freaking insane the card is. It does what the deck need, which is push through damage when the game is in a stall. Plus, it can be used to save random creatures from removal, and get past Jitte(Which also beats Zoo). +1 to Mother of Runes.

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I've been pretty happy when I tried Mother of Runes in normal Zoo like six months ago. I know some other players (BreathWeapon?) recommended it too, but it's such an unconventional choice.

Let me know how it works for you.

Edit: It's always great for stalling out the ground when you're behind, but it's even better for protecting your fatties/making them unblockable. Plus since it's a less aggressive card, I think it's a better fit in those more midrange builds that run more fatties to begin with (i.e. 4 Goyf and 4 Knights at the minimum).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ziveeman

Vs Goblins I would never keep a hand that only has a creature as a blocker. As you said, it's too unreliable. Goblin decks have Weirding, Stingscourger, Bolt, and Incinerator (for the little guys). As long as you resolve a giant Knight or Goyf they can't do much as long as you keep applying pressure. Elspeth helps in this regard by making tokens.

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I've found that Goblin players (especially Rb players) will board out Lackey and Piledriver in games 2 and 3. They hope to win by manascrewing the Zoo player, making it to the late game where they can benefit from card advantage on the back of Goblin Ringleader, Goblin Matron, Siege-Gang Commander, Gempalm Incinerator, Mogg War Marshal, and Perish. I guess their logic is that Zoo has too much removal for Lackey and Piledriver to connect, so that can be to your advantage even when you don't actually have removal for the turn 1 Lackey.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

I've been pretty happy when I tried Mother of Runes in normal Zoo like six months ago. I know some other players (BreathWeapon?) recommended it too, but it's such an unconventional choice.

Let me know how it works for you.

Edit: It's always great for stalling out the ground when you're behind, but it's even better for protecting your fatties/making them unblockable. Plus since it's a less aggressive card, I think it's a better fit in those more midrange builds that run more fatties to begin with (i.e. 4 Goyf and 4 Knights at the minimum).

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Grim Lavamancer is also run in the fast builds, so the point is that if there is no other turn 1 play besides Nacatl or Steppe Lynx, it's better to have some lasting effect on the board via Mom's protection ability rather than a conflicting strategy between Goyf/KotR and lavamancers. It's like Merfolk running Standstill. Great card, usually win-moar, therefore it can be replaced to aid in mulitple and specific problem areas. I'm going to try it out for myself, I like the idea

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

For reference here's my current list:

23 Land
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

20 Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kird Ape

17 Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
2 Sylvan Library
2 Fireblast
2 Umezawa's Jitte

15 Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Orim's Chant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Pyroclasm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

The only suspect cards are the number of Sylvan Libraries and the Umezawa's Jitte main deck. I'm not sure whether to run the 4th Grim Lavamancer or not. I hate drawing that card in multiples. Any ideas?

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Lavamancer is amazing, I wouldn't ever play less than 2. 23 land is A LOT. You're not even running KotR, you curve out at 2. If you're looking to cut cards I would start with a land or two. If you're looking to add cards I'd start with the 4th Chain Lightning. Loam Lion's better than Kird Ape unless you expect to see more Deathmark than BEB/Hydroblast. You also have more turn 1 white sources than red without fetching.

Not playing Knight of the Reliquary at all is a mistake in my opinion.

Gaddock Teeg in the sideboard is overall more useful than Ethersworn Canonist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doomsday

Lavamancer is amazing, I wouldn't ever play less than 2. 23 land is A LOT. You're not even running KotR, you curve out at 2. If you're looking to cut cards I would start with a land or two. If you're looking to add cards I'd start with the 4th Chain Lightning. Loam Lion's better than Kird Ape unless you expect to see more Deathmark than BEB/Hydroblast. You also have more turn 1 white sources than red without fetching.

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If I were running Kird Ape, I'd want to play against the guy who BEB's a Kird Ape. All day long. Same with Deathmark and Loam Lion. That's just theory that's never put into practice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doomsday

Lavamancer is amazing, I wouldn't ever play less than 2. 23 land is A LOT. You're not even running KotR, you curve out at 2. If you're looking to cut cards I would start with a land or two. If you're looking to add cards I'd start with the 4th Chain Lightning. Loam Lion's better than Kird Ape unless you expect to see more Deathmark than BEB/Hydroblast. You also have more turn 1 white sources than red without fetching.

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There's a hair more Deathmark then BEB/Hydroblast in my meta. Also I own a singleton Arabian Nights Kird Ape. I love him :smile:

How's this sound:

-3 Horizon Canopy
-1 Umezawa's Jitte
+1 Treetop Village
+2 Knight of the Reliquary
+1 Chain Lightning

This puts the list at:

21 Land
4 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Treetop Village
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

22 Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Kird Ape

17 Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Sylvan Library
2 Fireblast
1 Umezawa's Jitte

15 Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Orim's Chant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Pyroclasm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

And yes the sideboard is meta related. And what's everyones current view on Treetop Village? A lot of people I know say he sucks in Zoo, but I really like having him. I've seen him used in Morbid's lists and some of Alix Hatfield's lists.

Obviously he's good against board wipes, Humility and under Standstill. What do you folks think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

There's a hair more Deathmark then BEB/Hydroblast in my meta. Also I own a singleton Arabian Nights Kird Ape. I love him :smile:

How's this sound:

-3 Horizon Canopy
-1 Umezawa's Jitte
+1 Treetop Village
+2 Knight of the Reliquary
+1 Chain Lightning

This puts the list at:

21 Land
4 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Treetop Village
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

22 Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Kird Ape

17 Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Sylvan Library
2 Fireblast
1 Umezawa's Jitte

15 Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Orim's Chant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Pyroclasm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

And yes the sideboard is meta related. And what's everyones current view on Treetop Village? A lot of people I know say he sucks in Zoo, but I really like having him. I've seen him used in Morbid's lists and some of Alix Hatfield's lists.

Obviously he's good against board wipes, Humility and under Standstill. What do you folks think?

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I've never tried Treetop Village, how has it been working for you? I play almost this exact list. Mine is -1 Plateau, -1 Treetop Village, -1 Jitte, -1 Lavamancer, -1 Kird Ape; +1 Wooded Foothills, +1 Windswept Heath, +2 Price of Progress, +1 Loam Lion. I like the Chants way better than Traps in your sideboard. Has Canonist been better than Teeg for you in the board? I'd almost like a single maindeck Teeg and GSZs. 8 Nacatls, 8 Pridemages and 8 Goyfs is pretty good I hear, just not sure what can be cut.

EDIT: And not sure what you mean jandax. They just do some simple math and odds, and decide whether the resolved Ape will deal them more damage than a Bolt or Blast (he doesn't have Price of Progress, just Ape, Bolt Chain Lightning and Fireblast for red).

Treetop Village is insane.

Windswept Heath is the most important fetchland, so you should be playing four of that.

I suppose it depends on your meta, but I dislike Umezawa's Jitte, especially in the maindeck. It's okay against the tribal decks, but pretty lackluster against everything else.

I think you want one more Knight of the Reliquary.

I don't know about Treetop Village and Standstill. Sure you can fetch it with Knight of the Reliquary under Standstill, but why would someone play Standstill in the first place when you have Knight of the Reliquary out? Assuming on the other hand that you have no creatures in play, the probability of drawing the single Treetop Village is very small. Fetching it preemptively doesn't seem good either, because you usually want to be attacking. I'm not saying the card is bad and I'll test it myself, but playing one copy won't help much against Standstill.

In combo match-ups, Ethersworn Canonist gets hit by artifact hate ran in some sideboards, for example in ANT, as well.That might or might not be relevant.

@ Orim's Chant: This card has been amazing for me against combo. My meta has Tendrils Combo, Sneak Attack and Show and Tell decks. It work wonders. I prefer this over Gaddock Teeg, it's just a preference.

@ Ethersworn Canonist: I use this as combo hate pieces 4-5. My meta is also infested with Elves (combo and aggro versions.) This helps me catch up because sometimes they can just play more 1/1's than we can 3/3's.

@ Umezawa's Jitte: Tribal decks. My meta is full of them. It helps shore the match in my favor. Affinity is also huge in my meta. Answers Etched Champion.

@ Treetop Village: This card has been sick whenever I play it. It beats face and tramples for 3. The only time I'm happy to see it is when I have a god hand and wished it were a forest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

Question concerning TTV...

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If we're being personal here, I'd rather have another KotR. THe mana requirement is around the same. You still have to untap with them.

Yet your own pro's about the card are valid, but if it is coming down to one card what of the following?:

It is the 21st land. Either it could be a spell or another land, but it'd be the first card to go if this list were to change

Does having a man land, and one card in 60, worth having less threats in a conventional form like another KotR?

If it were one of, couldn't it be simply a powerful spell worthy of a miser slot?

Or is the generic off chance that it could matter warrant an inclusion?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jandax

If we're being personal here, I'd rather have another KotR. THe mana requirement is around the same. You still have to untap with them.

Yet your own pro's about the card are valid, but if it is coming down to one card what of the following?:

It is the 21st land. Either it could be a spell or another land, but it'd be the first card to go if this list were to change

Does having a man land, and one card in 60, worth having less threats in a conventional form like another KotR?

If it were one of, couldn't it be simply a powerful spell worthy of a miser slot?

Or is the generic off chance that it could matter warrant an inclusion?

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Depending on who shows up to the biweekly Legacy tournaments the slot changes to Karakas. If the Dredge or Sneak Attack decks don't show, it's usually a Treetop Village.

It's interesting that you keep it a land instead of adding or even using a spell.

Lucky you.

2 Horizon Canopy/ 1x canopy+ 1 karakas
3 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
22

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird ape/ loam lion
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 gaddock teeg
2 KOTR

3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning helix
2 Sylvan Library
3 green sun's zenith (quite a nice card but still testing it, ikd if I should go with it?)
2 price of progress

Any comments are welcome, ty

I don't post here very often but I have tournament report for SCG DC. I piloted Zenith Zoo to 7th place, with a 7 - 0 -2 swiss record.




Creatures//
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Terravore

Enchantments//
3 Sylvan Library

Instants//
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Bolt

Sorceries//
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Lands//
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Taiga
2 Savannah
1 Plateau
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Mountain

SB//
2 Path to Exile
2 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage


My brother came up with the list and we play tested the night before and made a few last minute changes.

We took out a 4th Knight for the miser Terravore. With GSZ (Green Sun's Zenith), we see Knight about every game so there was no real need for the 8th. The reason we chose Terravore was for decks like Goblins and Merfolk where the only thing that will win you the game is a 12/12 trampler to break the standstill. It's amazing with GSZ for the late-game tutor win.

In the sideboard, we thought it was necessary for the 5th tutorable hate card. Initially it was a one of Absolute Law that would allow us to bash in with unblockable Knights and Goyfs but we decided it was unnecessary, we switched to Ghostly Prison which turned out to do absolutely nothing in my Goblins mu. After the tournament we've decided to cut the last goblin hate card for a Karakas. S&T mu is almost unwinnable and a Karakas out of the board makes the mu about even if not in your favor.

You may be wondering why we MD StP over PtE. We play Wasteland and PtE is counteracts that strategy. The life gain isn't important because you're not looking to burn them out but to beat them down with huge Knights.

Great aspects of the deck:
-GSZ allows you to play only 2 Pridemage. Pridemage is a great card in many mu's and the exalted is amazing, but he is a terrible blocker and this deck has better things to do turn 2 than drop a Pridemage and swing. And if you really need to nuke an enchantment you can tutor for one via Sun. This aspect makes the Counterbalance mu extremely favorable. GSZ gets around Counterbance which allows you to sneak Pridemages through.

-The early acceleration lets you use Wasteland effectively. Turn one Nacatl, turn two Hierarch, Wasteland, nuke a land, swing for 3 is a very powerful play that I pulled off multiple times in the tournament. It's especially strong vs the Dark Horizons decks. The turn one play of GSZ into Dryad Arbor is very powerful as well. Its a one mana Rampant Growth, and if it's wasted or bolted turn one, it doesn't affect you at all because the deck doesn't NEED the acceleration but if it gets it, it can get out of hand real quick. The reason why I think this deck is better than other Big Zoo Lists is because GSZ is an amazing early game(GSZ for Arbor, Nacatl), mid game(Get Goyf, Pridemage), and late game card(Terravore RAWR!). It replaces Elspeth as the lategame bomb while also not being dead before the 4th-5th turn. Elspeth also needs Hierarchs to survive because 4 mana is simply too much in Legacy.

-Exalted! Played 6 creatures with exalted makes it so much easier to bash in with Goyfs and Knights. Against Dark Horizons, other Zoo decks, and Team America, having bigger versions of their creatures wins the game.


Here's a brief tourney report, sorry but it's not very detailed.

R1 Tom playing Bertoncini's mono blue merfolk list
Both games consist of clasic Zoo shenanigans, I burn and swords relevant dudes. GSZ gives me an unnaceptable amount of Goyfs in play which simply annihilate Merfolks unpumped fish. G1 he plays a Sower on a goyf, fortunately I ripped the StP so no worries. G2 He plays a Back to Basics on me, I luckily had both basics in play.
2-0
2-0

R2 Dom playing Mono Black Rack
Three awesome games of magic. He played Hypnotic Specters, Mishra's Factory, Nantuko Shade, and THE RACK. You may scoff but two racks in play does 6 a turn to me. I didn't see a rack G1 so after he crushed me G2 brought in the Jitte's which allowed me to stay above water. It was similar to playing against burn.
2-1
4-1

R3 Nick Patnode playing BR Goblins
First off, this guy is amazing at magic. I beat him G1 with a Terravore which he so wasn't ready for. G2 I land an active turn 3 Jitte, the game lasts about 30 minutes and he wins through it. G3 We go to time and I beat him on Turn 3 or 4(of time, not literally turn 3) with Terravore. This deck punishes goblins, Terravore is that good, and can be reliably tutored for with GSZ.
2-1
6-2

R4 Ray playing Dark Horizons
Zenith Zoo rofl stomps Dark Horizons. Your dudes are bigger, and the surprise Wastelands can punish their manabase. GSZ and Library just create too much CA for them to handle, especially when you kill Bobs instantly. Lavamancer sines in this MU. G1 I waste him to death, G2 my Knights get there.
2-0
8-2

R5 Shaun playing Dark Horizons
G1 I lose because I am forced to mull to 5, he Hymns me second turn... G2 and G3 I kill his early Bobs, hold the StP's and boarded in PtE's for his big guys, and eventually overwhelm him with Knights and Goyfs.
2-1
10-3

R6 Gerry Thompson playing WGB Combo Elves
G1 he combos out, I didn't have the removal so I lost. G2 I surprise him with an EoT Enlightened Tutor for the Jitte, which I play and equip/swing the next turn. G3 I have a great hand. I play some guys, waste his Bayous/Savannah, and I Path and Swords his relevant elves. After I won he told me this was the first match he lost in 15 rounds (he won the Standard 5k the day before).
2-1
12-4

R7 Feature match with Dan Signorini playing Team America
G1 I am able to keep him at bay with Wastelands and my Goyfs were bigger than his Stalkers with the help of Noble Hierarchs. I GSZ'd for Hierarchs so I could punch through with Goyfs. G2 I get Team America'd in the face as he Snuff Out'd and Darkblasted all of my threats while Hymning. G3 I keep a greedy hand of Fetch, Hierarch, Nacatl, Path, Swords, Pridemage, Goyf. I go first turn Hierarch, he ponders, I rip the fetch, play a Nacatl, he misses two land drops. he almost comes back but a timely Knight eventually gets there.
2-1
14-5

I draw in to Top 8

Top8 Ari Lax playing UB Storm, my worst possible matchup
Its painful to describe, he Stormed me, nothing special.

So I got 7th place with what I feel is an amazing deck that very effectively abuses GSZ. Test it and play with it!

Congrats on your finish Guevera, sadly I got 10th for the second time with the deck. I watched a few of your matches (big guy in blue hoody) I was very impressed and inspired with changes to the list which has caused me to do some changes to mine. If your in Edison i'll formally introduce myself rather then stalk your matches.

Grats on your finishes you two. Between you guys and Mary my confidence has been restored in my choice of Zoo if I decide to go to SCG: LA. The singleton Terravore seems like a pretty good target for GSZ actually...I'm gonna playtest that.

Is the Enlightened Tutor package worth it in the SB? Perhaps having that with Pyrostatic Pillar would improve the Storm matchup (along with GSZ for Teeg), and maybe a singleton O-Ring for the S&T matchup as well.