Printable View
Just thought I'd drop by and say that I went to my first sanctioned event with this deck and was able to go 3-0-1 (ID into Top 4) and then split at a 15-man event last night. My other deck is Miracles and it must have taken me 2 or 3 events with that deck to get the same 3-0-1 record.
What did you play against? Sideboard?
I've had the misfortune of being paired against reanimator, sneak and show, and tin fins in my last couple tournaments. Maybe leyline of the void was previously a crutch but I've missed it a couple times since i've switched to the crop rotation + bog package. Would any of you guys mind giving me critique on sideboard decisions for these matchups?
Reanimator: keep some number of abrupt decay for animate dead or for dark confidants that the opponent reanimates. chalice on 1 doesn't stop exhume or animate dead. Chalice on 2 seems too slow. I try to mulligan to T1 deathrite or scavenging ooze if possible, but crop rotation may be passable.
-4 chalice of the void
-2 punishing fire
-1 dryad arbor
-1 abrupt decay
+1 bojuka bog
+1 crop rotation
+2 thoughtseize
+3 swords to plowshares
+1 containment priest
Tin Fins: Chalice on 2 seems crippling but it'll also take a little while to get to that mana, I'd need ways of stalling the first few turns until i can drop it (this may be a poor strategy). Chalice on 1 seems insufficient as does chalice on 0. Does ethersworn canonist come in here? if so, what do i cut for it (thinking 1 chalice of the void)? Just like reanimator, i aggressively mulligan into some kind of graveyard hate or T1 interaction.
-3 abrupt decay
-2 punishing fire
-2 liliana of the veil
-1 barren moor
-1 life from the loam
+1 bojuka bog
+1 crop rotation
+2 thoughtseize
+3 swords to plowshares
+1 containment priest
+1 pithing needle
Sneak and Show: Expecting blood moon out of their sideboard so rec sage is more reliable than abrupt decay in that scenario and it also hits sneak attack if they get sloppy. My only worry is if i get blood mooned while i have karakas in play and having no instant speed answer stops me from bouncing a sneak attacked emrakul. Grave hate does nothing. I don't think i can afford to open on a tapped land so the cycle lands come out. Chalice only seems ok so i trimmed a few post board. I'm still not sure whether it is correct to drop chalice on 0 to limit their red mana sources or 1 to limit their cantrips. would love to find a containment priest in my opener, but will settle for karakas, thoughtseize, crop rotation, maybe even knight if i suspect my opponent kept something loose and i'll have time to deploy it.
-2 punishing fire
-2 abrupt decay
-1 deathrite shaman
-1 scavenging ooze
-2 chalice of the void
-1 barren moor
-1 tranquil thicket
+1 crop rotation
+2 thoughtseize
+1 pithing needle
+3 swords to plowshares
+1 thalia, guardian of thraben
+1 containment priest
+1 reclamation sage
Current sideboard:
1x the tabernacle at pendrell vale
1x bojuka bog
1x crop rotation
1x pithing needle
2x thoughtseize
3x swords to plowshares
1x golgari charm
1x thalia, guardian of thraben
1x containment priest
1x ethersworn canonist
1x reclamation sage
1x garruk relentless
@Djehuti
VS Reanimator:
I would board out the Gaddock Teeg and the Life from the Loams first before boarding out any of the Chalices in general. If you are running Sylvan Library, I would board that out as well as it doesn't help you survive turns 1 and 2. I have considered boarding out all the of the Chalices when you are on the draw since playing a Chalice on 1 and then having your opponent cast Entomb in response makes Chalice really weak. I would leave in the Decays as I've had multiple reanimator opponents play a Pithing Needle naming Knight of the Reliquary. Boarding in the Thalia can't hurt either as you should have enough dead cards to take out from the maindeck.
VS Tin Fins:
I'd board in the Thalia, Canonist and Containment Priest for sure since they are a reanimator and storm hybrid type deck. I wouldn't board in the Plows as most of their reanimation spells exile the creature at the end of turn and even if you had a plow: 1) they can still draw cards with Gristlebrand and 2) you can't target Emrakul if they decide to reanimate Emrakul. I would consider boarding out all the Loams and Punishing Fires and Maze of Ith before considering any other cards.
VS Sneak Show:
I would board in the Golgari Charm for sure as it's another way to get rid of Blood Moon and Sneak Attack at instant speed. Loams are the first thing that comes out in this match as well, the games you lose won't last long enough for you to loop Loams and Wastelands. I would also board out all or go down to 1 Sylvan Library since they don't really help you survive turns 1-3. I wouldn't board out the Deathrite because it's there for the mana making ability, not the drain or the gain life abilities and you need as much mana as you can generate in the early turns to survive. You also don't want the plows for the same reason mentioned in VS Tin Fins matchup, if you have a target for the Plows, you've probably already lost the match.
Hope this helps.
Overall, yes, having no Leylines definitely hurts the rarer, GY heavy strategies that we are already unfavored against. I like the Crop Rotation Package more only because you just have to sacrifice some matchups for others, and I'd rather make sure my Delver matchup , which will be super popular, is as strong as possible.
I like the SBing for Show and Tell that was on page 167. As for reanimator/tin fins, you need to keep the chalices in against both. Against Tin Fins, I've been able to play it a bunch (since for a while there were 3-4 people running it locally), and I think that Decays need to stay in as well because of the fact that Decays hit every single one of their SB threats - Serenity (which is their primary way to deal with Chalice @ 1), Mentor, Stoneforge. All of the hate bears come in against all three decks for me (Thalia, Canonist, Priest), for obvious reasons.
For Reanimator, all the P Fires and Decays come out, as well as 1 Loam and 1 Cycle Land. For Tin Fins, I like to keep the removal in (since typically they're going to go away from the combo, at least with the lists I've locally played against), so for that I do something weird like:
+ 2 Thoughtseize
+ 1 Priest
+ 1 Thalia
+ 1 Canonist
+ 2 StP
+ 1 Slaughter Games
+ 1 Rotate
+ 1 Bog
- 1 Loam
- 1 Moor
- 1 P Fire
- 3 Liliana
And the other cuts are guesses based on what I think their SB is (typically the other P Fires will be first, but I like to keep in some if I really do expect their SB plan to be creature heavy). This is one I'm very fluid on, guessing what I think they'll look like post board (sometimes I'll trim a grave hate card like Priest or even Bog, just because their plan deviates so much from the yard)
Punishing fire is the first cut for me against fast combo. I just leave my decays in for any stuff out of the board liek young pyromancer and the like.
Gaddock can shut off important things like Sneak Attack and Massacre...
@pocari79
I can dig it. I definitely over valued swords, sylvan, and life from the loam here. come next week, I'll have some practice with this sideboard strategy. Thanks for the reply :)
The issue with P Fire against Tin Fins is that the decks (at least those using the source as a discussion/ starting point) know that they are so vulnerable to any type of hate, and have SBs adjusted accordingly. Most commonly this is a Monastery Mentor and/or a Stoneforge Mystic package. This is what I've at least come to expect, which is why I'm able to value a couple of these over Swords (though StP is still great because of that same fact - removing mentors, etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
But yes, against traditional Reanimator or Sneak and Show, all of the fires should be boarded out, without any question.
[QUOTE=Djehuti;953913]I've had the misfortune of being paired against reanimator, sneak and show, and tin fins in my last couple tournaments. Maybe leyline of the void was previously a crutch but I've missed it a couple times since i've switched to the crop rotation + bog package. Would any of you guys mind giving me critique on sideboard decisions for these matchups?
Reanimator: keep some number of abrupt decay for animate dead or for dark confidants that the opponent reanimates. chalice on 1 doesn't stop exhume or animate dead. Chalice on 2 seems too slow. I try to mulligan to T1 deathrite or scavenging ooze if possible, but crop rotation may be passable.
-4 chalice of the void
-2 punishing fire
-1 dryad arbor
-1 abrupt decay
+1 bojuka bog
+1 crop rotation
+2 thoughtseize
+3 swords to plowshares
+1 containment priest
For reanimator, definitely leave in the chalice, you will need all four of it. A chalice for one stops so many of their cantrips, entomb, thoughtseize and careful studies. I dont think they have any means to get a creature in their graveyard except for entomb, thoughtseize. Maybe hapless researcher or discarding at end step. So chalice is critical in reanimator match ups.
I would board out:
-3 punishing fire
-1 Gaddock Teeg
-2 life from the loam
+2 Thoughseize
+1 Crop rotation
+1 Bojuka Bog
+1 Containment priest
+1 Thalia/slaughter games
I personally wouldn't board in the swords. The fact that they have landed a griselbrand in play means they have already won more than half the battle.
On a separate note, if you guys have a land and Green sun's zenith in your opening hand, how often do you all search for arbor on your first turn? I find myself split between ramping up or saving the zenith for a more important search later. Barring some matchups (miracles, sneakshow, elves, storm) aside, which i will save it for gaddock teeg.
Good luck to fellow aggro loamers both in Columbus and Prague!!!
Thanks for the tips guys, really appreciate it.
On the T1 Gsz for dryad arbor:
If its game 1 against an unknown opponent, I don't think fetching dryad arbor is a good idea. gsz can swing the game in your favor if you search for the right creature but you can't know which creature is correct to tutor for until you know what your opponent is playing.
If its game 1 against a known opponent or after sideboard, you can make a judgement call if the match is going to be won on the back of mana advantage. you can set up waste lock and punishing fire lock as early as turn 2 off the back of a T1 gsz for arbor and it could be a good way to slow down delver and eldrazi if they waste a turn getting rid of it instead of deploying threats.
Played against:Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
Burn
UR Burn (w/ Pyro, I don't know if that's a normal list it was my first time playing against it with either of my decks)
ANT
ID against DnT (we played a match for fun but only got through 2 games, with him winning g1 and me taking g2)
My SB:
3x STP
2x Thalia
2x Dread of Night
1x Deluge
1x Pyroclasm
2x Choke
1x Rec Sage
1x Pulse
2x Revoker
Was very happy with the SB given the MUs.
About T1 GSZ:
If GSZ is the only threat in my hand, then I of course hold it. Otherwise, I almost always fetch up dryad arbor. This allows me to play through daze, T2 a knight, play bob+waste, T2 a Teeg. Having more mana in the early turns simply gives us more options, and more powerful plays. GSZ is not quite as good as Mox Diamond, but they can serve a similar role.
Question
I can see the interaction with loom and cycle lands but why not just run top so Bob dont kill you more?
Is the loom engine really vital to the deck?
I think I'm missing something because wouldn't goyf be a better beater than trying to pump Knight?
Sorry if this is old hat.
@Sidneyious
You are comparing apples to oranges in each of these cases.
The deck has a bunch of lands (cycle, waste, fetch) that are good to recur with loam. It is a card advantage spell.
Top is a 1drop (so it is bad with chalice) but the correct parallel here is sylvan library, which we do play. BTW, the average cmc of the deck is ~1.
You don't need to try to pump knight. Knight is easily in the 5/5 to 7/7 range by just playing magic. Goyf does not tap to cast Crop Rotation. He is both smaller and a vanilla.
I'm hoping Niklas can reply to this as I'm really torn over the sideboard. I really like the Swords package, but it feels as that the Crop Rotation package is really lacking. I think Burn is a pretty obvious bad matchup, but there must be some land that makes it bearable. I think replacing the package with Leylines is also reasonable especially in an 18 Round setting where one can only take two losses to win the tournament.
I've thought about having more GSZ bullets like Melira, but they feel like a waste of space in an already reasonable matchup. On the topic of side boarding specifically in certain match ups, against Burn I cut the Loams, Sylvan(s), and Teeg and bringing in Swords for my own Knights felt reasonable.
Lastly, I'm comfortable with feeling that 1 Cycle Land and 1 Canopy encourages playing only 2 Loams and 2 Sylvans. However, the more I play, the more I feel like the Canopy should be a Bayou due to actual "fetch able" land concerns and mostly due to color considerations.
Thanks a bunch guys, I've had a lot of fun playing this deck, which is pretty rare for Magic for me these days. Win or lose, it's nice to see a community of people willing to work on something for a shared benefit.
If RG lands players havent found it, i don't think it exists. Glacial chasm is the only land that even comes close and that card is terrible. If you just need to get an edge on your local meta, you could try warmth. In a large tournament, just hope to dodge it.Quote:
Originally Posted by juppal
If you want to get really weird, pages and pages back there was Nomad Stadium and Diamond Valley. Another alternative being Miren, the Moaning Well. All likely too slow and narrow, but if you can survive to untap with Knight you could potentially fetch and try to gain breathing room.
GP prague: martin juza on 4c loam vs. miracles streaming now --> https://www.twitch.tv/magic
Went 7-2 today at GP Prague, losing a close rd 9 to Ondrej Strasky. Lots of pros on miracles. I regret cutting Chandra. Just wanted to say thank you for this great resource which was invaluable in my preparation!
Congrats on the awesome performance!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergblaster
Martin Juza is 8-1 with this deck and Nicklas is 7-1-1. Keep on rocking guys!