I also have never heard of Sulfur Elemental being run in the sideboard from Uw decks - that's more of a RUG thing.
Uw decks don't need situational small sweepers like that since they have access to Terminus and now Supreme Verdict.
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I also have never heard of Sulfur Elemental being run in the sideboard from Uw decks - that's more of a RUG thing.
Uw decks don't need situational small sweepers like that since they have access to Terminus and now Supreme Verdict.
Many players that are already splashing red in UW Miracle are also packing a 2-3 Sulfur Elementals since it's an auto-win against this deck since it shuts down the most annoying cards in the deck (for them): Mother of Runes and Thalia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds
Double Sulfur also solves the Gaddock problem.
Maybe not in the SCG circuit but here in Europe is a popular SB card and sooner or later the US should manage to catch up aswell, but it usually takes a few months for people on the other side of the ocean to realize certain things! :tongue:
So I wouldn't risk play Elspeth because Garruk is much better in the MU where Elspeth is good: Miracle and the Mirror.
While Elspeth crowds the ground with 1/1s that can be chumped, has a very preventable pump effect and a useless ultimate because your dudes can still Terminus'd and STP'd, Garruk creates either 2/2s or 1/1s deathtouch and also gives you an use for otherwise useless mana dorks and Dryad Arbors by fetching Reliquary, Mothers or SFM in the mirror and Gaddock/Mother/Thalia in the Miracle MU along with an ultimate that usually wins games because even with 2 or 3 creatures in the GY the effect is very powerful.
if people in europe are using sulfur elemental why not use Wilt-Leaf Liege? she makes an surprise army with gaddock, pridemage, reliquary and can do a quick kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaozy
No idea why UW Miracles (regardless of the region), would splash red for REB and Sulfur Elemental... when black for pinpoint discard is better vs the mirror and SNT, and E Plague is better than Sulfur Elemental against Maverick while actually improving one of Miracles worst matchups (Goblins). *shrugs*
Echo on Sulfur Elemental being an odd choice for UW Miracles. But nevermind that, Planeswalkers provide a way to generate incremental advantage against the matchup where your creatures (or lack thereof) are the biggest liability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
Big boy Garruk (of the Primal Hunter variety) seems alot scarier than Elspeth, and hitting 2GGG vs Miracles shouldn't be a problem...
Simply because black is much worse than red as a splash for UW Miracle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
REB can be used against most of the tier 1 and 2 (S&T, Storm, RUG, Miracle, Stoneblade, Merfolk) while discard is useful against half of those MUs and doesn't save you from topdecks.
Hence why, having no access to black for good reasons, people run Sulfur Elemental as a SB card for the Maverick MU.
We had a small tournament this weekend, top prize was FTV realms and I took down 1st place.
My list:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Quasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Dryad Militant
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Maze of Ith
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
SB:
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Strip Bare
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Dueling Grounds
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
Round 1: Merfolk
My opponent also has belcher built and as I sit down I'm a bit worried I'm going to loose right away, thankfully it's merfolk instead.
G1: Towards the end of the game I tap out for Elspeth and fly my knight over his guys leaving 2 Moms and a Tarmogoyf back to block. He has no cards but two reejery in play if he topdecks any merfolk I'm dead to reejery triggers, if he draws anything else he probably can't even kill Elspeth and he is dead to Elspeth + Knight. He drew cursecatcher and I'm dead.
SB: +1 Dueling Grounds -1 Dryad Militant, I don't remember if I brought in Teeg or not.
G2: The major play of this game was I had played a Knight (3/3) and passed turn I also had Scryb Ranger in play. He had Reejery and cursecatcher in play and played a Master tapping my Knight, he attacked with both, my knight untaps blocks and I destory my wasteland with itself to kill his 3/3 Reejery with my now 4/4 Knight.
G3: We were running really low on time so this went fast all I remember was a very awakward alpha strike by him that wasn't lethal (without me blocking) into my 2 Moms and Scryb Ranger, I considered not blocking but did anyway, untapped and my knight was lethal.
Round 2: Zoo
G1: She gets out a Loam Lion and a Kird Ape pretty quickly but her mana is bad with plains, taiga and mountain. My wasteland kills her Tiaga and I play Thalia. She makes a terrible attack with both her 1/1's into my Thalia and she never really recovered.
SB: +1 Finks -1 Dryad Militant
G2: This was much closer, I drew a lot of lands but couldn't find much gas. She pithing needeld my Elspeth and I was praying for a Zenith. When I finally draw zenith I'm at 2 life and have to get Kitchen Finks instead. She plays Knight the following turn, I attack into her knight with finks and I'm back to 6 life. I play my own Knight and she Chain Lightning me the following turn. At this point her Knight could be active and growing/fixing her mana but instead she just sits there with it. Eventually I kill her other creatures and my knight is big enough she has to block with her smaller knight.
Round 3: Belcher
I was afraid of this matchup and thought for sure I would lose. I even told my opponent "At least I can still make the playoff."
G1: He wins the die roll and makes turn 1 18 Goblins... GG nice deck.
SB: -4 Swords -1 Path + 2 Mindbreak Trap +1 Teeg +1 Canonist +1 Dueling Grounds
G2: He mulls to 5 and I have turn 1 Mom turn 2 Teeg and he scoops.
G3: He keeps 7 and I'm worried I'm dead. I go digging for a Mindbreak Trap. I mul to 2 keeping Forest Pridemage. He plays turn 1 Probe and passes. I draw a Savannah play forest and pass. He draws and discards. I play my pridemage and pass. He keeps discarding while my guys beat down. Apparently he needed a red initial mana source and he could have played and activated Belcher.
Round 4: Stoneblade Counter Top
G1: I win but don't remember the game at all.
SB: +1 Teeg +1 Strip Bare +1 Dauntless Escort -1 Thalia -1 Scryb Ranger -1 Jitte
G2: He keeps a 1 land hand with Top I keep a 1 land + maze of ith hand. I never draw another land and he eventually gets Counter Top.
G3: He spent a lot of the game trying to Detention Sphere my Teeg so he could Wrath my other creatures but every time he did I zenithed up a pridemage and killed the sphere. My Strip Bare killed his batterskull and my Knight eventually killed him.
Top 4: Goblins
G1: A pretty typical goblins game, my Knight does the abyss thing for a while while mom + tarmogoyf + ooze play defense, eventually he dies.
SB: +1 Kor Firewalker +1 Dueling Grounds -1 Thalia -1 Elspeth
G2: I get down dueling grounds + Kor Firewalker but he has assembled Krenko + Skirk Prospector + Sharpshooter. I can't find swords in time for his sharpshooter and he eventually has enough guys to kill me.
SB: -2 Thalia +2 Firewalker
G3: He got stuck on 2 lands both non basic. My knight came down early and destoyed his lands and he gave up.
Finals: Stoneblade Counter Top (same guy from Round 4)
He wanted the booster packs from second place rather than FTV realms and conceded to me.
So three of your five wins was based on them being very unlucky and you lucky or them not being able to play Magic properly?
I wish my meta looked like this, would be a rich man by now.
I decided to try Maverick last Tuesday and this was the list I competed with. Writing this at work and it seems I have forgotten one card, will probably come up with it later.
24 creatures
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Loxodon Smiter
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
23 Lands
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Forest
2 Plains
3 Wasteland
3 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith
12 others
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Krosan Grip
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Path to Exile
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Crop Rotation
1 Oblivion Ring
I was expecting storm, UW and RUG to be the decks I had to beat to go 4-0. The following decks I played against:
Bout 1 vs Spiral Tide (0-2)
G1: I play and slam a mother t1, he thinks about forcing but lets it happen. He cantrips and I slam a Cavern into Teeg turn 2 and think I have this win. He continues to cantrip while I bash in with my teeg t3, another great draw means I resolve a Sylvan Safekeeper thinking I have this win. He wishes for Wipe Away and I know that I am probably screwed. I think about saccing a land each second mainstep to keep Teeg in play so he has to bounce in his turn. I beat him down to about lethal next turn when I pass priority for turn, he bounces Teeg with Wipe Away and then the game is over.
G2: Excited to try my tech with chalices I happily board in 1 Teeg, 4 Chalice, 2 Krosan Grip (he plays with candelabra). I board out 2 Elspeth, 4 Sword and 1 Jitte. I get to play and I keep a hand with Lands, Cavern of Soul, Teeg, Chalice and Hierarch (basically). I end up resolving manaramp into chalice on 1 into Teeg without him being able to prevent any of it. I end up with a lousy clock hitting for 4-5, I make a mistake (I think) where I want to keep my Cavern of Souls available to cast back Teeg without him being able to force it instead of wasting it for 1 more damage with my knight. This seems to be the wrong way to go since he ends up with basically 1-2 life (wasteland and cavern) when he wins. He Wipe Aways my Chalice, Snaps my Gaddock Teeg and away he goes again. It seems he gets just the right amount of bounce and I deal too little damage.
Summary: Hatebears doesnt win if they dont apply pressure. Letting HighTide-players go to 5 Islands is too slow if we do not have more to interact with. I even had a Krosan Grip with mana avail but when he goes off he has more candelabras in hand to play out after I take one away.
Bout 2 vs Maverick. (2-1)
G1: I end up with a board state with 2 moms, knight, ooze and some critters after he mistakenly crashes with Ooze (2/2) into my Mom+Fetch that turns into dryad arbor and pro green on mom. I make the trade ofc and I sit comfortably with that trade. He zeniths for 3 and I don't care really until he fetches up a Terravore. Being a huge beast (13/13 I think) I have to deal with it quickly. Neither player draws a Swords to Plowshares or Jitte during three games so you know =) He slams into my forces after I have bojuka bogged his gy. He attacks into me, I pro green knight and do some calculations, wasteland myself with my knight and progreens it. Terravore dies and the match is over from there basically.
G2: Sideboarding was quite easy bringing in 1 Ooze, 1 Linvala, 2 Path to Exile, 1 Garruk, 1 Oblivion RIng. Out was Teeg, 4 Thalia and 1 Maze of Ith. I mull to 4, nothing exciting really, hands were: 1 knight+6 lands - 2 mom, 2 swords, something, 1 wasteland - no lands - 3 lands and hierarch.
G3: I find mana ramp, into ooze, into mom, into elspeth into sylvan safekeeper and with 6 lands total his maze of ith cant handle the flying slime.
Bout 3 vs U/W Miracles (2-0)
This matchup got me worried, he has gone 11-1 in matches the last couple of weeks and our meta is QUITE hard to compete in considering we have players constantly winning PTQs and going day2-top64 in GPs. Not bragging here, just explaining it is quite tough.
G1: I go double mother into teeg without him being able to prevent it. After this it is quite over and I just hit him with my small guys (teeg, arbor) until he scoops. I think I also got to resolve something bigger, maybe a knight in the end of the game. It was quite over allready there, he needed 2 swords and a terminus to win.
G2: Sideboarding in 1 Gaddock Teeg, 2 Krosan Grip, 4 Chalice of the Void. Taking out 4 Swords to Plowshares, 1 Umezawas Jitte, 1 Maze of Ith, 1 Bojuka Bog. I end up resolving a Chalice on 1 and getting a Teeg in play with Knight hitting him. The game is over once he realizes he doesnt have outs for both my hateitems and that he ignored my chalice (he could have blown it up with explosives early but instead opted to play a terminus from the top on a lucky draw just to kill my hierarch) Afterwards he admitted that he got trigger happy on that terminus and that the correct play would have been to go for explosives killing chalice before my teeg hit the table.
Bout 4 vs ANT(R) (2-0)
G1: I resolve Teeg and bring the beats. He tries to find solutions but I waste him out of useful mana. A little hazy here on details.
G2: SIdeboarding was easy, out with the removal, in with the chalices, 2 crop rotation for quick bojuka bog and 1 teeg. He keeps a shaky hand with few lands but it was a dangerous hand with lots of black quick mana and ad nauseam. Too bad he doesnt find his second land before I resolve enough threats. My first turn is land, hierarch, chalice on 0. It feels nice to know that he can not win using petals and LED. I follow that up with an ooze and dryad arbor and bring the beats while shrinking him so he can not threshhold with his cabal ritual. He resolves double Dread of Night but my chalice just stares on them and thinks that he is glad he isnt a canonist or gaddock teeg.
To summarize I made some fatal errors in the first bout, I could have mulled more aggressively for a Thalia which seems to be the best card against that deck. I loved the Chalice of the Void today and had I faced RUG it would have gone in there aswell. I never got to utilize the Loxodon Smiter or the Deathrite Shaman, maybe they are just too cute cards to play. They could be a second Scrub Ranger and Birds of Paradise (heavy curve in this list with 2 Elspeth) or maybe one Sylvan and a Scrub Ranger. I do not think Ethersworn Canonist would have been better today than the Chalice if I am to compare those two cards. The SpiralTide could have handled them both and the ANT player got stuck on lands. The chalice vs U/W is a lot better than Ethersworn ofc and had I played against RUG it would have felt great to slam it down.
Comments, hate and love are welcome. Cheers.
It seems that you were lucky enough, because chalice has a nonbo with too many cards in Maverick. Against RUG you always want mother of runes and removal. You have PtE in Sb, that you should side in, but with chalices it just won't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by useL
Against UW it's scary to attack with Teeg into Snapcaster or Clique when you have a chalice instead of mother of runes... Also they usually side in disenchants, so it's even worse.
And how do you play without Sylvan Library? With the chalice you have lots of dead cards which you need to filter.
Mother of Runes gets resolved just fine with three Cavern of Souls. The only cards that are dead are the removal cards and the crop rotations basically. I admit that against RUG the Chalices are worth less since you want to use your Swords but you dont have to play the Chalice when they have a flying bug out, kill it, slam it. But against storm/combo/UWmiracles you do not want any of the white removal cards anyway. If you get to resolve a Chalice on 1 in those matches you probably will win through their eventual creature threats.Quote:
Originally Posted by door
Really? U/W sides in disenchants against Maverick? To do what? Kill the Jitte/sylvan? It seems there would be better cards to have against our deck.
They use disenchants against choke and/or sword BW (if you have).Quote:
Originally Posted by useL
I still don't like the Miracles matchup whatsoever. I think I might be on board with the PW plan out of the Sideboard. If only there was a way to ensure that Entreat the Angels didn't ruin my day :(
Raking Canopy obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Not that hard to ensure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
a) You maindeck 4xTalia 1xTeeg, 2xCavern
b) You Sb 2xTeeg, 2-3x Needle
You grind them out postboard so easily. If you manage to land needle on top, their fighting ability will be severly limited, and you're bound to stick a Teeg, since you run 3.
I've opted for the Planeswalkers plan for a while in my test build that I grind against. I agreed very much with what Karsten was saying in his article. Entreat does suck for sure, but there's not much you can do (except Gaddock Teeg obviously).
In the main, I'm running 1 Garruk Relentless (due to my playing of Ulvenwald Tracker, but also for 2/2 token generation). I think in the board, I'd want to play another Garruk Relentless and some split of either Elspeth or Primal Hunter. I haven't tested Primal Hunter, so I cannot be certain as to its effectiveness, but Elspeth has been good, Sulfur Elemental or not. Garruk nicely gets around Sulphur Elemental and can tutor for other creatures (ex. say if you wanted to run a 1-of Thrun, as well).
The Miracles matchup won't be great, and to be honest, it usually isn't wonderful.
This is what I've been running as my test Maverick build, or at least one that I would play in a Rock-Paper-Scissors of RUG, Maverick, Omni, and Miracles:
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest/Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Plains
3 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
23
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Sylvan Ranger
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Qasali Pridemage
24
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshares
14
--BOARD--
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Choke
1 Planeswalker of your choice
1 Sylvan Library (can't get enough Sylvan Library in this matchup for Miracles, but this is a loose slot, the 6 cards you're bringing out are 4 Plow, 1 Tracker, and one Ooze I think)
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Path to Exile
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
+ 4 Open
This is what I'm testing against. I'm not saying it's the best or anything like that, just my line of thinking on the matter. Equipment turns every creature you play into a threat, and Planeswalkers are an angle of attack Miracles can't deal with.
-Matt
For god's sake, people, why are you not running Gaddock Teeg in numbers? It shuts down up to 15 cards in Miracle deck, all their sweepers, and all their winconditions - basically everything relevant except for STP. They can't do shit under mom + teeg, so aim to it (and even thalia + teeg is very hard to deal with). Even if they deal with one Teeg, you're still good at GSZing yet another. Or casting it uncounterable via Cavern of Souls.
And really, pithing needle on Top is severe hit on ability of that deck to even put a fight. And its much easier to resolve than Choke and planeswalkers (which are victims of Counterspell, or are simply Spellpierced).
Both Teeg and Needle have applications in other match ups, should I mention that?
You mean Scryb Ranger, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
The most recent TMI has been posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Light
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...acy-Opens.html
It doesn't bode well for Mav, it looks like Miracles is ascendant, RUG doesn't roll over as easily as it used to and Omnitel smacks the sass out of Mav's mouth. In honor of thsi sad trend I am adding black for HD and AD to get cb decks, and I don'd think it's going to work. Is it time to put the x back in Mav and what kind of x would best adapt to the meta. I think the trends are continuing, our best match ups are decreasing in number and our bad match ups are becoming more popular. I don't know what the answer is, but I think the whole list needs to be reviewed. I in particular am of ten unhappy with Thalia in the current meta, and I think we need 1 Teeg main and 1 in the board at a minimum. Something like that, but is it enough?