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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HulkFindItThisWay
The same removal you mentioned targets Goyf as well as the Elemental. My argument for the elemental was that he isn't affected by the graveyard hate and has the potential to be more explosive that the Goyf in the early game. The turns we are trying to hit threshold or flip a delver are the same turns UW is using to stick a top and counterbalance. If you hit them for 12 by turn 3, they have to worry a lot more than if you just flipped a delver. But that is just my 2 cents. I will be testing my theory tomorrow.
I think the difference is that Goyf is a 3/4, 4/5, or 5/6 that gets crippled by Rest in Peace.
Nivmagus Elemental is a 1/2 that needs some pumping.
The beauty of a card like Goyf is that it is large when it hits the table. Nivmagus has potential, but it needs a real deck built around it. I've seen people running it with Clout of the Dominus, but that is a different deck than RUG (although it may be a similar shell).
The developers at Wizards really hated on RUG with RTR:
Rest in Peace
Abrupt Decay
Deathrite Shaman - notice how he eats lands, instants, sorceries, and creatures? Yeah, that's 95% of a RUG deck.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Water_Wizard
I think the difference is that Goyf is a 3/4, 4/5, or 5/6 that gets crippled by Rest in Peace.
Nivmagus Elemental is a 1/2 that needs some pumping.
I am inclined to say that this is probably the best comparison.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HulkFindItThisWay
Does the Counter/Top sideboard package help much against the current meta? I think that it could help against UW Miracles.
It would not help because RUG wants to counter Entreat the Angels and Terminus; neither if which are likely to be countered by Counterbalance. Envelope and/or Flusterstorm are good options to help against the aforementioned. If you are losing out due to Counterbalance, maindeck Spell Snare can help along with Red Elemental Blast out of the sideboard.
The other thing to remember is that some match ups are tough for RUG and testing is the only way to improve the match up. No matchup outside of maybe Lands.deck is truly terrible. Most unfavorable matchups are at worst 40/60 which is a very movable margin provide you understand the matchup better than your opponent.
Random aside; breaking out some copies of Divert today for the board. The meta has an EvaGreen.deck and BUG Tempo deck.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HulkFindItThisWay
The same removal you mentioned targets Goyf as well as the Elemental.
Yes exactly. That's why we need the Mongoose in there. Otherwise all 12 of our creatures are vulnerable.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarkConfidant
Most unfavorable matchups are at worst 40/60 which is a very movable margin provide you understand the matchup better than your opponent.
I think Nic Fit is RUGs worst matchup and would not estimate it better than 30:70.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bilb_o
Yes exactly. That's why we need the Mongoose in there. Otherwise all 12 of our creatures are vulnerable.
I'm going to try 3 Elementals in the Goyf spot today at my event. I agree that Mongoose is a big part of the deck and shroud is important. I will post a list and results later tonight or tomorrow.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Here is the list I played to a 2-2 finish today.
[mtg]
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
3x Flusterstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Stifle
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Nimble Mongoose
3x Nivmagus Elemental
1x Scavenging Ooze
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Tropical Island
3x Volcanic Island
4x Wasteland
3x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder
[/mtg]
My matchups were Rb Goblins, Nic-Fit/Scapeshift mess and UW Miracles. I played UW Miracles twice and won once(2-0) and lost once (1-2). I didn't take notes.
My sideboard was a mess. I wouldn't actually use this sideboard for a real event.
1 Phyrexian Dreadnaught
2 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Counterbalance
2 Submerge
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Echoing Truth
Counterbalance and top against goblins is funny.
Highlight of my night was slamming a Dreadnaught against a UW player on turn 2 of game 2 and having them scoop.
I'm not sold on the elemental yet. He did some work today but I feel like the deck wasn't firing like it should've been. Echoing Truth was the MVP out of the sideboard. The deck needs work. I'm not saying it is ready to knock down a GP but it was okay for a local shop.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Yo guys,
I need some input and am interested in your opinions regarding a few slots in my maindeck and also need help in building a sideboard. I plan to attend a few bigger events in the next weeks and obv I want to make the deck as good and run as smooth as possible. No idea what the meta could look like, all I do know is that some of the better players will opt for UW, but at the end it's still legacy and anything can happen.
Ok now, time to show you what I'm at right now:
4 Goyf
4 Goose
4 Delver
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical
3 Volcanic
8 Fetches
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
So, 58 cards. I guess this core is pretty stable and I won't change it. What I'am curious about, though, are how to fill the last 2 slots. There are a lot of options - burnspells, Spell Snare, Thought Scour, Preordain - of which I prefer burnspells more. 4 Bolts hardly are enough against critterdecks, especially if they run Cavern of Souls to blank our counterspells. Also, I'm a zoo player at heart and love burning away the last 5 or 6 lifepoints ( or better, love the option of being able to ). Flipside is that they are pretty much dead against control and combo, unless I'm quick enough or don't draw too many of them. There aren't too many options for burnspells though, namely Chain Lightning, Forked Bolt and Firce // Ice.
Chain might be the worst of the bunch, being less flexible. It deals 1 more to the dome though, which can be relevant a lot of times.
Forked Bolt is what I'd prefer right now. It's flexible and cheap, exactly what I am looking for. Like chain it will usually have only one target, but the possibility to blow out something like GW or Elves is still given.
Fire // Ice should be the most flexible in theory, but 2 mana is kind of expensive. Both for the deck itself as to handle creatures. On the other hand this card has different applications than just dealing 2 and can be pitched to Fow. I still think the 2 mana cost knock it out of contention.
Now to my bigger problem, creating a sideboard. Especially without any speculation of how the meta could look like it's extremly hard to build, given all the options there are.
I think I can put the sideboard cards into different categories: counterspells, removal and hate. In this case, hate is a pretty wide open field, as in hate vs UW or hate vs gravebased decks are artifact hate... you get the idea.
After looking at several lists, the only sideboard cards they have in common are Submerge and Pyroblast / Red Blast. So 5 cards for my sideboard are set in stone, 3 Submerge and 2 Pyroblast.
For the other slots there are a lot of questions to ask. Like, "what how many cards do I take out in a certain matchup and how many can I bring in" or "do I really need gravehate? it's probably only important against dredge and 3 or 4 hatecards hard improve the matchup at all". Some cards have the advantage of being extremely flexible, so while they can hate out a certain deck they can also be brought in against nearly everything else to get a slight edge.
I guess it's worth doing some card by card analysis for possible sideboard options:
4th submerge: Should be self-explanatory. Good against nearly all agressive strategies and the mirror. It's very likely that I will play 4 because it's such an awesome card.
Mind Harness: Less flexible as it only deals with green or red creatures, costs and binds mana. On the other hand a control magic effect can just randomly win, but to be honest there aren't that many juicy targets. You can get Goyf, Knight, Ooze, Pridemage and any Goblin. I guess that's ok, but not amazing. Also, GW can just tutor up Pridemage. Possible as a 1 of, but maybe underwhelming.
Grim Lavamancer: Not as antisynergetic as it may look, because Goose aren't the best anyway in matchups you bring in Lavamancer. Chances that it will shrink Goyf are also very rare and even if it does, shrinking it is probably better than not handling the opposing threat at all. Can also be brought in against removal heavy decks just to have another "threat" and as a suprise against Dredge. Could see this guy as a 1 or 2 of in the sb.
Rough // Tumble: The mass removal of Canadians choice. Might be worse than the spotremoval against GW but should buy some time or win the game against Goblins and Elves ( and other junkie decks ). I like it, can imagine 1 or 2 in the sb.
Sulfur Elemental: At 3 mana it's pretty expensive but deals with Thalia, Mom and Spirit tokens in split second speed. Also another threat against control. I guess it's ok but not amazing. Maybe as a 1 of?
Pyroblast / Red Blast: Obv awesome counter, but do I really want to play more than 2? I guess I like some other counterspells more, for example...
Envelop: This one. Obv strong against UW and any kind of combo. I don't really know what else to say, it hits some important targets that red blast doesn't. I guess it's worth to note that it can counter Perish as well, if anyone still plays that card.
Hydroblast: I don't see what I might need it for. Easy dismiss.
Counterspell: It's a weird choice that I see in canadian decks from time to time as a 1 of. 2 mana makes it kind of prohibitive to cast and to resolve, but at least it hits everything but the usual uncounterable and split seconded suspects. Will probably not make it in, but worth mentioning.
Spell Snare: If I don't play any of them in the main, I could possibly play some in the sideboard. They hit something against almost every deck, which is fair, but they don't seem amazing to me.
Vendilion Clique: Just a flexible and very good card. In the matchups you bring it in Wastelands arent expected, so 3 mana shouldnt be that much of a big deal. Good against any combo, any control, and Stoneforge. It is also a nice surprise attacker after your opponent resolved a Rest in Peace.
Sylvan Library: Who doesn't love to pay 16 life for 4 cards to get miles ahead in the control matchup? That may sound like it's sarcasm, but it's not. It's just reckless.
Krosan Grip: Disenchant being able to destroy Senseis Top and Counterbalance since 2006. But is that good enough? I don't know, this card seems kind of inflexible for its high cost. It doesn't even have a body.
Sulfuric Vortex: Canned hate against UW - style decks. May be too narrow though.
Scavenging Ooze: A lot of people don't like this card in canadian, but I think it's a wonderful 1 of in your sideboard if you have no clue about the meta. Sure, you rarely get to activate it more than once a turn, but that is usually enough combined with some sort of counterspell action. Probably not good enough to win on it's own against Dredge, but useful against Animator, Loam and Snapcaster - and tons of other shit like even GW. It's also a threat that can grow and the lifegain is not irrelevant either.
Cranial Extraction: Probably the best sort of gravehate we can get. Again, resolving one against Dredge is usually not enough to win, but the splash damage it deals to other decks is enormous. Can also be sweet against combo and UW. On the other hand I also had some frustrating games with that card, where it just did nothing at all. Pretty much a boom or bust card.
Grafdiggers Cage: Stops Dredge completely ( and other gravebased strategies ) while not doing harm to our own deck. Probably won't make the cut, but if it would, then as a 1 of.
Tormods crypt: When 1 mana to spend is too much... another too specialized card that won't come in often.
Ancient Grudge: Having some artifact removal can never be bad, be it against Equipment or tons of random stuff like the whole Affinity and MUD decks, Chalice of the Void, Ensnaring Bridge, Meekstone etc etc etc. I think more than 1 is hardly needed, but I could also see playing 2.
So yeah, those are all the possible cards that I came up with. If I overlooked anything please tell me.
As of now, my first draft of a sb looks like:
4 Submerge
2 Pyroblast
2 Envelop
1 Sylvan Library
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Rough // Tumble
2 Surgical Extraction
... but at least on the paper I'm not really happy with that.
Anyway, thanks for your suggestions.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarkConfidant
Random aside; breaking out some copies of Divert today for the board. The meta has an EvaGreen.deck and BUG Tempo deck.
I'm interested to hear how this works out for you.
Old tech, but good tech. Great for Abrupt Decay and Hymn to Tourach.
Rock on DarkConfidant, rock on!
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
@ dunkle
You analysis is thorough and covers pretty much everything.
A few notes:
I'm not sure 4 Spell Pierce is guaranteed maindeck material. I may do a 2/2 split with Spell Snare. Spell Snare hits many of the problem problem cards like Rest in Peace, Counterbalance, Thalia, Stoneforge Mystic, and Tarmogoyf.
Guilded Drake is the only major sideboard option I think you missed. Naturalize may be worth a mention.
Did you decide on your last two maindeck slots? That will help me comment on your sideboard. For example, if you add two Chain Lightnings as cards 59 & 60, then you can probably cut a burn spell from the board. Also, Dismember is worth a mention. Probably not necessary in your build because you are running 4 Submerges from the side, but some people run it. Personally, I've never liked it, because I find the 4 life is too relevant vs. the decks you need to use Dismember against.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Right now, I'll take Envelop over Gilded Drake any day of the week. The former is so much more flexible and unlike Gilded Drake, also able to answer Show and Tell into Omniscience.
Wish I had more time to respond as dunke_stille's post is among one of the very best ones I have read in quite a while. Agree on most of what you say, especially 4 Spell Pierce, 0 Spell Snare + 2 Forked Bolt in the main. I like myself 4 Submerge, 2 Pyroblast, 2 Envelop in the sb, still undecided on the rest. Right now I hesitate to include that many 1offs. I think I'd cut an Ooze since I always feel it's too slow.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
@ Julian - I'm not suggesting Dunkle actually run Gilded Drake, rather just add it to round out his otherwise very complete analysis.
As you mention, Guilded Drake is a narrow card and does not answer Omniscience.
Personally, I don't think 4 Spell Pierce is the way to go. I find that too often it is a dead card.
Divert may be worth a mention as a potential sideboard card. Especially if Abrupt Decay and discard are on the rise.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Divert is super strong against early discard, but I doubt it's value against spot removal. It is pretty conditional since you need an alternative target + the opponent must not be able to pay 2. Against an abrupt decay deck you have to rely on Mongoose and building tempo advantage. Other options are additional threats like Sulfuric Vortex or another GSZ as Mongoose +4. Btw.: Envelop is also good against discard decks!
Against Nic Fit, I would just pray or play a different deck. :tongue:
edit (joke): You could also try some funny stuff: suspend cards like Errant Ephemeron to hate on decay, but I guess more shroud is the better option. :smile:
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Thanks for your responses.
Yeah I totally forgot about Guilded Drake, once I played a tournament where I had 1 in my sb and never brought it in, guess that made me forget about it ;) Anyway, while it is an option, it's not flexible enough - it's only cool against a Sneak Show player praying for SnT to resolve. It's probably ok against Animator as well, but they rarely rely on SnT, and no matter what they attempt to reanimate, if it enters the battlefield it will instantly create some kind of advantage that will make it hard or pointless to resolve the Drake.
Dismember is no option for me. Which is kind of funny, because I overrated that card so hard when it came out. Well, it was awesome in standard at that time, but if your deck plays Batterskull and Sword of War and Peace that's a different story. But in Legacy I would render it unplayable outside of BUG decks, as the 4 life are just too much in the matchups where you would need it - as you say, water_wizard.
Divert is an interesting card, but catmint pointed out it disadvantages already.
Anyway, a few words about the maindeck: As of now I think I will stick to 2 Forked Bolt. I could probably cut a Spell Pierce and then play 2 Snare and only 1 Forked Bolt. I will have to think deep about that - the last time I ran Spell Snare I was happy with it, but I also lost a lot of coinflips that day ;), but Spell Pierce is just the overall stronger card, especially with the full mana denial package. Also, I love love love to counter opposing Brainstorms. And unless my opponent starts with 2 basics before he or she attempts to cast it, that will be very likely to happen.
also, @ Abrupt Decay:
If it becomes more prevalent, I like the idea of cutting a goyf for a Zenith.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
I think another card that may be included as part of the SB options would be Flusterstorm. Its additional hate against combo.
Also if Abrupt Decay does become even more prevalent how bout running Mizzium Skins. ;p
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Que
Also if Abrupt Decay does become even more prevalent how bout running Mizzium Skins. ;p
I was about to say that. :laugh:
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
With regard to Abrupt Decay, I would suggest Divert as an alternative to Mizzium Skins. While Mizzium Skins will "counter" Abrupt Decay, Divert has a much wider array of applications and can generate card advantage.
@Water_Wizard: I cut Diver prior to the start of the tournament since no one played with BUG or something that would of made Divert worth of a sideboard slot. However, I feel its a great card against BUG Tempo and a slightly better than average card against BUG control. If BUG does make a serious push on the back of Abrupt Decay, I would strongly consider running a copy or two in my sideboard moving forward.
Short Tournament Report:
I played the following list:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Thought Scour
4 Spell Pierce
3 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
2 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked Bolt
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
SB:
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sulfur Elmental
2 Rough // Tumble
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Submerge
Round 1: WGB Enchantress with Opalescence
I was paired with the true rouge deck of the day Round 1. As an aside, all three games he opened with Leyline of the Void which was annoying to say the least. At any rate, I won game 1 on the back of Delver of Secrets. Game two, I kept a hand with a Tarmogoyf, Ponder, Land, Land, and three Lightning Bolt and lost to a resolved Opalescence when I wasn't able to find a counterspell. Game three, I was able to grind out thanks to him filling his graveyard up with enough card types to make Tarmogoyf a 4/5 which meant he couldn't attack (all of his enchantments are 4/4s under Opalescence). After that, I found a Delver of Secrets and rode it to victory.
This matchup was slightly terrifying, but that probably had more to do with him opening with Leyline of the Void in every game. I boarded in Submerge along with Scavenging Ooze while boarding out Spell Snare, and Nimble Mongoose. The deck doesn't have any relevant two drops and since the games are slower, I opted for Ooze over Nimble Mongoose since it has a bigger body and can grow even with Leyline out (albeit not much). I kept in Thought Scour as he was running Enlightened Tutor. I don't know if this match up is so terrible that it warrants adding enchantment hate cards to the sideboard given that its not a popular deck.
Key Cards: Delver of Secrets, Spell Pierce, Force of Will, Wasteland (for Serra Sanctum)
Key Notes: Remember that Opalescence makes each other enchantment a creature, so you can't burn it out unless they play two.
Round 2: Merfolk
Won: 2-1. A few notes about this match-up. Spell Snare was amazing as hit Master of the Peral Trident, Lord of Atlantis, Jitte and Coralhelm Commander. I'm not sure how favorable this match-up is given that he didn't find a Coralhelm Commander across three games. Having Chain Lightning as a two of was much better than the possible alternatives of Dismember, Forked Bolt and/or Fire // Ice as it allowed me to burn out Merfolk with multiple lords on the table.
I boarded out Daze on the draw and some number of Force of Will. On the play, I boarded out Spell Pierce instead of Daze. Spell Pierce is rather underwhelming in this match-up given that post board, your deck can answer everything that you would try to Spell Pierce anyway. I brought in Rough // Tumble, Ancient Grudge, and Red Elemental Blast. Of those, Rough // Tumble was the worst given that it likely needs to be paired with another burn spell unless its in the early game. Ancient Grudge was great at blowing up Jitte and Red Elemental Blast was awesome.
Round 3: Maverick
Lost 0-2: I got rolled by Knight of the Reliquary. Game two he resolved and early Jitte so I was forced to begin using my Submerges to stop his Jitte from gaining too many counters. I wasn't able to live the dream and Forked Bolt two of his creatures which was kind of sad. The key to this match-up is stopping Knight of the Reliquary (duh!). I'll likely make some changes to my sideboard based on this match-up (along with the maindeck). Surprisingly, I didn't find Thalia to be that much of an issue. He was able to resolve Thalia in both games and holding Lightning Bolt for her was a quick fix. Mother of Ruins was somewhat annoying, but that's to be expected and it wasn't really a factor.
I incorrectly boarded out Force of Will. After reading over Drew Levin's RUG primer, I'm convinced that Force of Will is necessary even if its only function is to stop Jitte and Knight of the Reliquary. Both of those cards are devastating and nearly impossible to counteract once resolved. Knight can be managed if its small enough. However, once it pushes to a 6/6 and beyond, it really falls out of RUG's ability to deal with it outside of Submerge. I would chalk up a majority of this loss to my inexperience in playing this match-up. I would also add the balance of that blame to my inability to find a Delver of Secrets and put pressure on Maverick.
Changes:
I"m going to try Stilfe this time around. I opted to do Spell Pierce because I hadn't played with Stilfe in a long time; I'd rather opt for what I'm comfortable with. I'm not sure what the counter suite would look like, but I would play four Stifle and some combination of Daze, Force of Will, Spell Pierce, and Spell Snare.
I also plan on cutting Chain Lightning and Forked Bolt. While both spells are powerful, I don't think they do enough in key match-ups - namely against Maverick and Show and Tell. I believe some combination of Dismember and Fire // Ice is in order. Both cards interact more favorably in the aforementioned match-ups and Fire // Ice's utility is something I'd rather play with. Living the dream and getting a two for one with Forked Bolt is just that - living the dream. While Fire // Ice might be worse under Thalia, RUG cans till 2 for 1 for one more mana. However, the ability to deny them an attack with Knight seems like a much better option.
Thought Scour is just bad right now. Nimble Mongoose, while powerful, isn't quite as good as it was a few months ago. Therefore, dedicating slots to it that power it up quickly seems like wasted space to me right now.
I would redo the spell base to look something like this:
4 Stilfe
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Dismember
1 Fire // Ice
I'd also like to add a Predict or Slyvan Library to gain some mid - late game card advantage but I'm unsure what to cut at this point.
The sideboard is harder to make changes to because it depends on who is playing on any given weekend. However, I will likely add some enchantment removal, probably in the form of Krosan Grip to the sideboard. Maybe playing against Leyline of the Void three games in a row has tainted my decision making, but there is an argument to be made for Krosan Grip given that Counterbalance locks this deck out rather easily.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarkConfidant
I'd also like to add a Predict or Slyvan Library to gain some mid - late game card advantage but I'm unsure what to cut at this point.
I have been thinking on this topic a lot recently. I think I want to try out a one-of Library to grind out those longer games against control and to help sculpt better hands in the mirror. The problem with this card is that it doesn't create any immediate advantage. One of RUG's key strengths is that all of your cards have immediate impacts on the board and/or game state. There are a few exceptions like cantrips when you can't cast what you are looking for or Sulfuric Vortex out of the board. It just feels awkward to cast Library in my opinion because while it is a proactive card, it isn't immediately proactive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarkConfidant
The sideboard is harder to make changes to because it depends on who is playing on any given weekend. However, I will likely add some enchantment removal, probably in the form of Krosan Grip to the sideboard. Maybe playing against Leyline of the Void three games in a row has tainted my decision making, but there is an argument to be made for Krosan Grip given that Counterbalance locks this deck out rather easily.
Krosan Grip is almost a necessity as it is our only reliable way to deal with a resolved Counterbalance. If there are blue control strategies in you meta, running 1-2 Grips is likely a good call.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sturtzilla
I have been thinking on this topic a lot recently. I think I want to try out a one-of Library to grind out those longer games against control and to help sculpt better hands in the mirror. The problem with this card is that it doesn't create any immediate advantage. One of RUG's key strengths is that all of your cards have immediate impacts on the board and/or game state. There are a few exceptions like cantrips when you can't cast what you are looking for or Sulfuric Vortex out of the board. It just feels awkward to cast Library in my opinion because while it is a proactive card, it isn't immediately proactive.
Agree 100% with your rational. I think Sylvan Library provides the deck some much needed gas when RUG drops into top deck mode in the mirror or in the longer match-ups. However, I would build on your hesitations by arguing that Sylvan Library is at best a tempo neutral play and has a high risk of becoming a negative tempo play - especially if it is countered.
Given the inherent negative tempo it generates, I would rather play Predict as it it can generate card advantage it mills, and pitches to Force of Will in a pinch. An additional upside to Predict is found in the interactions it has with Submerge in games 2 & 3. Being able to Submerge a Knight of the Reliquary in the Maverick match-up or an opposing Tarmogoyf in the mirror seems like a favorable interaction. The aforementioned interaction is a bit of living the dream, but there are other applications such as milling an opposing Worldly Tutor or Enlightened Tutor target, milling a card when your opponent is playing with Top, etc.
The take away is that Predict has versatility while Sylvan Library does not. Decks like Zoo need Sylvan Library since a lot of Zoo has a lot of dead draws. Most draws with RUG are live which means drawing a lot of cards isn't necessary.
Though I'm still somewhat undecided on what should be cut. My guess is that it largely depends on a particular list.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
I posted an evaluation on Sylvan Library a couple of pages back. It's not always about Tempo in this deck, although it's a huge component. It's also about efficiency and card quality. A lot of it also lies in how you play the card. I've been thinking about some changes lately and I'm going to try some ideas this weekend at Baltimore (if I get a group together to go, 50%). Hopefully there can be some positive results. I will say that I have been less impressed with Forked Bolt lately, so Chain Lightning will likely resurface in the deck. Besides that, I'm not sure.