Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Sure, the tools are there. But running hot is definitely not dependent on the 75 one registers. And slowly doing something in legacy isn't a winning strategy.
Looking at the Rw lists and keller's list, there is little different between them. 19/20 lands and 5 accelerators, the skeleton of the deck with 6-8 blasts, 5-6 moons, a toolbox of 3 critters (more or less), the combo and a couple meta game slots and CA. When the decks contain all of about the same thing, one must look to outside influences to draw conclusions on either the card choices one makes, or if the deck is the right one to use when one wants to do well in a tournament.
When referring to the former, the difference between the lists looks like one swaps out Enlightened tutor (and obv reworking the mana base) for creature removal. It's definitely not a wrong call. But when considering a given meta game, it appears to be a good choice for tribal/delver/fair deck metas. The white splash, and subsequently the black splash, affords haymakers that plug holes in bad match ups which typically involve fast combo, eldrazi decks, and blue based combo.
When referring to the later, no one decides when they run hot. Likewise, through variance one can't help having the deck crap out, a series of bad match ups and so on.
So it boils down to a question of variance given one's meta: how much variance is acceptable to afford the best chance to do well in a tournament? The more variance, the more the deck has to be tuned to a specific meta. That appears to be keller's list. Again, results don't lie, and I'm not saying Keller ran hot and had nothing to do with his list's performance. He chose to register the cards that he went deep with.
Rw affords stability in any given field and one doesn't necessarily have to run hot to see the cards they need to wins game/match/tournament. But it's slower and not as focused at either dropping a hate piece or the combo asap.
I'm just curious as to if there is more insight as to why one chooses speed over consistency, besides player preference which we all know influences the card choices for this deck more than most.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jandax
The white splash, and subsequently the black splash, affords haymakers that plug holes in bad match ups which typically involve fast combo, eldrazi decks, and blue based combo.
Rw affords stability in any given field and one doesn't necessarily have to run hot to see the cards they need to wins game/match/tournament.
I'm curious to see what other people think about this, because my current impression is that the differnce between RW and Mono-Red against Fast Combo, Eldrazi Decks, and Blue Based Combo is pretty marginal.
Also I think Eldrazi Decks is too big a catagory. We have pretty good game against 12-post, and pretty decent game against Sneak and Show, and pretty bad game against Omnitell... it varries a whole lot so lumping them all together is a bit off IMO.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I lumped them together because it negates our combo. You're absolutely right, 12post is easier than sneak and show which is easier than Omnitell. But in the end our main deck has to be equipped with a plan B to actually win the game against "eldrazi decks". And that's why I categorized them together, where no other subarchetype negates our combo like having an eldrazi in the main deck, outside of NO-Pro that no one plays anymore
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Admittedly, I didn't see the tormod's crypts in the SB. the closer I look at keller's list, the more reasonable it is. It just seems like you are play more copies of your bullets in the board vs mixing it up and finding it with tutors. I guess just runny 2 tops as the only way you manipulate your draws seems risky. Obviously you also have recruiters but those can only get half your combo.
With that said, a couple questions about your list Keller...
1. why bolts over magma jet? Is the 3 damage more important than 2 damage and scrye? Or is it also the +1cc as well?
2. Why 2 Jaya and 2 Magus? It seems like you are really banking on playing non-red mana greedy decks (ie BUG) a lot. Jaya is good in a couple MUs like 12 post but I end up siding her out a lot. Has she been that good for you?
3. No revoker in the 75? I wasn't playing with her for quite a while myself but now that sneak and show is gaining popularity again, revoker seems decent. How do other people feel about this card right now?
4. How is the miser's slice and dice in the main? 2 more and 2 pyrokinesis in the board? what are you bringing all this hate in for? elves? Why no e.e or ratchet bomb in one of those slots?
5. Heretic vs. manic vandal vs. hedge-mage...always an interesting one. Given how much more people are playing MUD these days, I can actually see the switch back to heretic. Still tough call though.
6. Here's the big one....how do you feel about your Miracles MU with this list?
Finally, I see a lot of people playing Magus again. Is he worth it? good against 12 post, MUD and BUG decks, so-so against STORM, reanimator, and other mana intensive decks that play red (and bolt) and bad against most everything else. How have other people felt about this card again?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Seems like a decent hedge after te banning shake up. The sixth is easier to wiggle in than the eight copy and at least it can beat down and block
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Today went awful for me but I think Keller did well and Suarez top 8d. Not sure exactly how either finished
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Painter made a top 16 appearance at SCG St. Louis.
Pretty standard MD.
A few interesting cards in the Sideboard. Scab-Clan Berserker, Vexing Shusher, and 2x Sudden Demise are the interesting / questionable ones.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Played in a 16 man legacy tournament today. 3 rounds of Swiss plus cut to top 8.
Decklist:
9 mountain
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
1 scalding tarn
1 arid Mesa
1 bloodstained more
4 painters servant
4 imperial recruiter
4 simian spirit guide
2 magus of the moon
1 phyrexian revoker
1 Jay's Ballard
4 blood moon
4 pyroblast
3 senseis divining top
2 red elemental blast
4 grindstone
2 Koth of the hammer
3 sudden shock
2 ensnaring bridge
Sideboard:
3 thorn of amethyst
2 tormods crypt
1 red elemental blast
2 slice and dice
2 pyrokinesis
2 ensnaring bridge
1 phyrexian revoker
1 manic vandal
1 viashino heretic
I didn't take notes so I'm just kind of going off the cuff of the game changing moments.
Round 1: rug delver 2-0
G1
I keep a hand of tomb, tomb, painter, grindstone
Mountain, sudden shock and something else.
I turn one painter naming blue. He turn one ponders and reshuffles. I turn two play my second tomb and play grindstone. He dazes. I pay with the one floating. He he plays a land and brainstorms and passes. I play my mountain and activate grindstone tapping the two tombs. He stifles. I blast the stifle. He scoops.
G2 (-1 recruiter, -1 revoker, -1 recruiter, +1 bridge, +1 manic vandal, +1 reb
I keep a hand with two blood moons,sudden shock, top, mountain, sol land and recruiter. I cast a recruiter on turn 3. He dazes. I'm able to pay for it and he dazes again. He eventually gets his goose to threshold but I'm able to have chump blockers in 2 simian spirit guides. I cast blood moon and he forces. Next turn I cast another blood moon and he is locked out with only a goose on board. I eventually find the combo for the win.
Round 2: 1-1 draw UB fairie rogue
G1
I'm paired up with my good friend that I went to the event with so we both know what the other is up to. Game 1 he's got bitter blossom out but I have him locked out with a board of ensnaring bridge, top, and an empty hand. He goes down to four life from the bitter blossom but I'm able to find the combo to spare him the slow and painful death.
G2: -1 recruiter, -1 revoker, -1 top, -1 sudden shock, +2 ensnaring bridge, +2 Pyrokinesis
I mull to four with a one lander. I'm stuck on one land for 6 turns. I ended up killing his threats with a timely pyrokinesis and a sudden shocked cast using ssg. I get a bridge out but he ends up wasting my sol land and boomeranging my bridge to swing for the win.
G3
We go to time. I Definitely had the upper hand in the game with a koth, painter and top on board. He has a bunch of pumped up fairies and I spin top to look for grindstone. I recruiter just to get a reshuffle and still don't find grindstone. That was turn 4 for time. He can't kill me on turn 5 so we draw.
Round 3 BUG control 2-0
I'm able to land turn 1 and turn 2 blood moons in games one and two respectively and he has no answers after I sudden shock his deathrites. From there I gave him the beats with koth one game and the combo another game.
I'm locked in as the 2nd seed for top 8.
Top 8:
Quarter finals vs metalworker
G1
Pretty epic. I turn one blood moon to slow him down. I get him down to 6 life with koth, recruiters, jayA, and painter on blue. He has chalice on one on turn 1. He activates metal worker and is able to cast emperioum, wurmcoil, and some other big scary artifact creatures. I'm almost in top deck mode and I'm chump blocking to save my life. His life total can't change and he has it equipped with lightning greaves. I recruit and spin top again after having to chump block with my painter to stay alive. My eot top activation was 2 grindstones and a painter. I respond to his tapping my jaya with staff of domination by destroying chalice pitching the one card( revoker) in my hand. I draw painter. I activate top to draw grindstone. I'm able to cast and activate. He scoops. Don't know if he scooped because the blight steel colossus in his hand or he just didn't realize the effect or else I would have been dead next turn facing at least 10 damage spread out between at least 3 creatures and I'm at 3 life.
G2
I get a turn 1 magus of the moon and turn 3 Koth using a ssg. Moth and magus bring the beats and by the time he has blockers on the field I have the Koth emblem and am able to ping him to death.
Semifinals: my round 3 bug opponent.
G1
Well god smited me for that win against metalworker game 1 because he had answers for everything game 1 and has 3 death rite shamans shocking me to death.
G2
I turn one magus and have a blood moon to back it up. He was playing one basic forest, swamp, and island in his manabase and had one in his starting hand and drew the rest within the next few turns. Was kinda bummed that I lost against bug with a resolved turn 1 blood moon and no lands in the yard for him to exile.
I got $20 and had a lot of fun. I'm really enjoying the mono red painter again. Not to say that I won't go back to Rw but mono red to me is a lot more straightforward to play. Not as many decision trees and I find that I win with the beats and the burn more after than not. There was one guy there playing a turbo stasis deck that made me so happy. His win cons were 1 jace and 2 black vise. There is nothing I love more about mono red painter than trolling the greedy manabases with blood moon. Stasis seems like the ultimate trolling deck. I think in gonna try building a version of the one this guy played and maybe tweaking it. He was nice enough to send me his list. He came close to top8 and had a lot of fun with his deck.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Respect for scg using names like tinfins instead of their own retarded naming campaign. Berserker is indeed interesting. I like the idea behind it but it doesn't play into a good strategy for storm.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GundamGuy
Painter made a top 16 appearance at
SCG St. Louis.
Pretty standard MD.
A few interesting cards in the Sideboard. Scab-Clan Berserker, Vexing Shusher, and 2x Sudden Demise are the interesting / questionable ones.
Hi that was me :). Long time lurker first time poster. Played painter on and off for about 4 years now. Won an IQ with it some months back and decided to dust it off in my hometown.
Scab-Clan: Anti-combo. Allot like canonist but with a different name and extremely painful. I've put him out anywhere between turn 1-3 and had opponents go from 15 to 5 in a turn or two. He shined disgustingly vs instant reanimator day one and TES day two.
Shusher: Anti-miracles. THe games can tend to go really long so setting up uninteractive destruction of their counterbalance or jace they are preying kills me can be vital.
Sudden demise: It's actually 3 of. Tried firebolt, wasn't a fan. Tried sudden shock and magma jet, meh. Tried lightning bolt, was ok. Board wipe vs targeted removal always wins in my book. Swallowing a field of elves whole always feels nice.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Weren't you lucky to have te berserker in hand against your combo opponents, though? Seems like a house once it's on the table but it doesn't seem reasonable to take a turn off to go recruiter for it
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Russki
Hi that was me :). Long time lurker first time poster. Played painter on and off for about 4 years now. Won an IQ with it some months back and decided to dust it off in my hometown.
Scab-Clan: Anti-combo. Allot like canonist but with a different name and extremely painful. I've put him out anywhere between turn 1-3 and had opponents go from 15 to 5 in a turn or two. He shined disgustingly vs instant reanimator day one and TES day two.
Shusher: Anti-miracles. THe games can tend to go really long so setting up uninteractive destruction of their counterbalance or jace they are preying kills me can be vital.
Sudden demise: It's actually 3 of. Tried firebolt, wasn't a fan. Tried sudden shock and magma jet, meh. Tried lightning bolt, was ok. Board wipe vs targeted removal always wins in my book. Swallowing a field of elves whole always feels nice.
Congratulations on a great outing with Painter!
I kind of figured you were at least a reader here, because of the Hedge-Mage in the sideboard, plus some other stuff that seemed like it was based on suggestions here.
If I'm not mistaken you got a feature match in Round 10 or 11 right? Not the most interesting to watch though since it was against Lands...
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jandax
Weren't you lucky to have te berserker in hand against your combo opponents, though? Seems like a house once it's on the table but it doesn't seem reasonable to take a turn off to go recruiter for it
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Not really. If you don't have it you don't have it. You navigate the match with the hand you have. If I didnt have it I didn't recruit for it I recruited or tutored for canonist when I could play it before it could be therapyd out of my hand.
Yep it was round 12. I wish it was the round earlier because it was vs instant reanimator! Matchup was intense and I won off scab-clan berserker.
Yeah Durger over manic vandal has been phenominal so far.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Berserker had one advantage over canonist, not being an artifact. Don't know about that meta but hurkyls recall is a card over here and at least berserker plays through it.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Hi,
will the top 16/32 decklists of eternal extravaganza 3 be posted? How did the 75s of Keller and Suarez look like?
Cheers
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Black_Diamond
Hi,
will the top 16/32 decklists of eternal extravaganza 3 be posted? How did the 75s of Keller and Suarez look like?
Cheers
I had a rather miserable outing at EE3, clocking in at 4-4-1 in one of the most bizarre and unfortunate tournaments I've ever played in - being on the losing side of games in situations where my opponents found a card to win third-card deep off a Brainstorm with me representing lethal, losing two game threes with opponents at one life each and then drawing with one opponent who stabilized at one life and found a way to draw the match in turn five of turns. I know it's just how the games play out, as it's not my first rodeo, but man oh man to be closer than close in four rounds like that is gut wrenching.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Hello, I too am a long time lurker/first time poster. I finished 38th with a 10-5 record at SCGSTL. I Could have drawn last round and guaranteed top 32 but the deck was performing great and I felt good so I chose to play it out and maybe shoot for a spot in top 16. Alas it wasn't meant to be but I walked away with $100. I have been playing Shortcake for about two years and just love the deck. A little more luck in round 5 and I may have been in contention for Top 8. This is the list I played:
4 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Plateau
4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Goblin Welder
2 Simian Spiritguide
1 Jaya Ballard
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Grindstone
4 Blood Moon
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Lotus Petal
Sideboard
3 Firebolt
1 Manic Vandal
1 Trinisphere
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Rule of Law
1 Ethersworn Canonist
Day 1
R1 Death & Taxes w/ green splash 2-1
R2 Grixis Pyro 2-1
R3 Burn 0-2
R4 4-Color Lands 2-0
R5 Shardless BUG 1-2 (Opponent top 8'ed)
R6 Death & Taxes 0-2
R7 UG 12Post 2-0
R8 Manaless Dredge 2-1
R9 Infect 2-0
Day 2
R10 Shardless BUG 2-0
R11 Elves 2-1
R12 Dark Maverick 0-2 (Three main deck Pridemage. Gross)
R13 RG Lands 2-0 (Fellow Shortcake aficionado, showed me pictures of his foiled out deck. Cool stuff.)
R14 Dark Maverick 2-0
R15 Miracles 0-2
All in all, the deck felt great. I played pretty tight and don't think I made any significant mistakes just got a little unlucky in a few games. There was a ton of Shardless, Elves and Storm. If this is any indication of were the meta is heading, I might find a spot for a second Magus main for GP Seattle. Besides that, the only other changes I might make are Viashino Heretic for Manic Vandal and another Koth for Assemble the Legion.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Michael Keller
I had a rather miserable outing at EE3, clocking in at 4-4-1 in one of the most bizarre and unfortunate tournaments I've ever played in - being on the losing side of games in situations where my opponents found a card to win third-card deep off a Brainstorm with me representing lethal, losing two game threes with opponents at one life each and then drawing with one opponent who stabilized at one life and found a way to draw the match in turn five of turns. I know it's just how the games play out, as it's not my first rodeo, but man oh man to be closer than close in four rounds like that is gut wrenching.
It seemed as if even your wins were weird. :P
Remember that guy you beat who scooped up his cards to the Magus thinking it was Blood Moon? You said you even felt bad taking the match after that.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artyart
Hello, I too am a long time lurker/first time poster. I finished 38th with a 10-5 record at SCGSTL. I Could have drawn last round and guaranteed top 32 but the deck was performing great and I felt good so I chose to play it out and maybe shoot for a spot in top 16. Alas it wasn't meant to be but I walked away with $100. I have been playing Shortcake for about two years and just love the deck. A little more luck in round 5 and I may have been in contention for Top 8. This is the list I played:
4 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Plateau
4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Goblin Welder
2 Simian Spiritguide
1 Jaya Ballard
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Grindstone
4 Blood Moon
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Lotus Petal
Sideboard
3 Firebolt
1 Manic Vandal
1 Trinisphere
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Rule of Law
1 Ethersworn Canonist
Day 1
R1 Death & Taxes w/ green splash 2-1
R2 Grixis Pyro 2-1
R3 Burn 0-2
R4 4-Color Lands 2-0
R5 Shardless BUG 1-2 (Opponent top 8'ed)
R6 Death & Taxes 0-2
R7 UG 12Post 2-0
R8 Manaless Dredge 2-1
R9 Infect 2-0
Day 2
R10 Shardless BUG 2-0
R11 Elves 2-1
R12 Dark Maverick 0-2 (Three main deck Pridemage. Gross)
R13 RG Lands 2-0 (Fellow Shortcake aficionado, showed me pictures of his foiled out deck. Cool stuff.)
R14 Dark Maverick 2-0
R15 Miracles 0-2
All in all, the deck felt great. I played pretty tight and don't think I made any significant mistakes just got a little unlucky in a few games. There was a ton of Shardless, Elves and Storm. If this is any indication of were the meta is heading, I might find a spot for a second Magus main for GP Seattle. Besides that, the only other changes I might make are Viashino Heretic for Manic Vandal and another Koth for Assemble the Legion.
I'm curious why you would want to increase your magus count for elves and storm. Granted, it shuts off the cradle in elves but other than that they usually have mana producers so you rarely choke them out of mana. Storm has basics and lotus petals. I usually side out some number of moons in both of those MUs as they will invariably fetch basic right away. There are stronger game plans (eg containment priest). Granted, if the field was all shardless, 12 post and other BUG variants, that would make more sense. Although I will also say that magus is decent against infect.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Black_Diamond
Hi,
will the top 16/32 decklists of eternal extravaganza 3 be posted? How did the 75s of Keller and Suarez look like?
Cheers
They will definitely be posted. The only question is how long until they are. Suarez top 8'd vintage too. Also with painter I believe. That guy had a good weekend.
