Printable View
Your list seems fine, though you should run 4x Wasteland.
I don't like Oona's Blackguard, since it only pumps Blossom tokens and you have lots of discard already. Its application is too narrow and it's too weak on its own.
Jailer shuts your own Lingering Souls/Therapies. Besides, you're already running six GY hate. I don't think you need more (in qty), or more diversity.
I have been running my own version of vial deadguy and I have a pretty decent win record, but the one thing
that always gets me is show and tell based combo decks. Do you guys have any advice on something I could sideboard that could improve the matchup?
My discard usually isn't enough when they pack Leyline of Sanctity or Misdirection.
How to deal with Sneak and Show? That seems like the question of the hour.
Mixing in some Innocent Blood or Diabolic Edict with the Swords to Plowshares makes sense, and not just against Sneak and Show.
Karakas in the main makes sense, and it's a good fit with the Jitte's most of us are running in our Deadguy builds. ...Edited. I read the Oracle text of Karakas, and it confirms that my foundational knowledge of the game is patchy at best. :)
Leyline of the Void in the sideboard is good, against Emrakul at least. Pithing Needle is good against Sneak Attack. Extirpate, if you can get them to discard Sneak Attack or Show and Tell. And Oblivion Ring takes out Emrakul.
Also, Disenchant would be good to have for the Sneak Attacks.
But my current preferred sideboard means of dealing with Sneak and Show is Ensnaring Bridge. It's just important that they don't counter it. Hopefully discard can prevent that. Or, how cool would it be to drop it as their Show and Tell resolves, at the same time they put Emrakul or Progenitus into play?
Sneak and Show's weaknesses are the shaky mana base and a general inability to deal with artifacts and enchantments. If you're running Vials your plan should be attacking their mana -- especially their two-mana lands -- and using Revoker to shut down Sneak Attack from the main, and O-Ring and/or Metamorph in the board. A miser's Karakas also sometimes gets there.Quote:
Originally Posted by esqulax
I played the following list at a medium-sized (40 or 50 people?) tournament yesterday. Got beat up pretty badly by Vial Goblins, Maverick (twice), and Dredge. Won against what seemed like an underpowered U/W Control deck. Had a bye too, so finished 2-4. Not what I was expecting...
Main
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Batterskull
4 Bitterblossom
2 Chrome Mox
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Innocent Blood
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Lingering Souls
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Vindicate
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
4 Swamp
2 Wasteland
SB
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Extirpate
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Warmth
2 Zealous Persecution
So probably what I should conclude is that my list is fine. It's not revolutionary. It's not wonderfully placed in a meta with pretty scary-fast combo decks (Dredge, Storm, Sneak/Show, Elves). But it's not a bad deck, and my failings with it show that I need to play it more, get better at playing it.
But what I'm tempted to conclude is that it needs more speed and more tricks. So here's what I'm considering...
Main
4 Dark Confidant
3 Flickerwisp
3 Grand Abolisher
4 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True Believer
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 AEther Vial
1 Batterskull
2 Chrome Mox
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Vindicate
2 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
6 Plains
4 Scrubland
3 Swamp
SB
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Extirpate
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Serenity
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Zealous Persecution
Thoughts? I'm not doing anything too out of the ordinary here either, though I haven't seen too many decks run True Believer or Grand Abolisher. I think they could be handy, but I'm really not too sure. I want to try it.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=46668
...Decent 14th place showing for BW Stoneblade at SCG Columbus. His list is interesting for its 2x Tombstalkers and its maindeck 3x Zealous Persecution. Just three Stoneforge Mystic, and the only equipment in the maindeck was 2x Jitte. 3x Thalia.
That is an interesting list to make it that far. Bob + Tombstalker seems bad. Thalia + Lingering Souls seems bad. Three Persecution seems like too many w/o Bitterblossom to me. I may have to try this build out though, if only to satisfy my own curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by berksowl
Hi,
Play in a small tourney 16 players, made to top 4 and finish 2nd in playoffs.. win 2 booster pack, got Cavern of Souls yeah! : )
here is my deck list..
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
4 Scrubland
5 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Lingering Souls
2 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshare
4 Vindicate
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sensei's Divining Top
60 Main Deck Cards
2 Perish
2 Extirpate
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
15 Sideboard Cards
Thanks!
Overall a rather standard list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldo
To begin, I believe your manabase runs more basics than is necessary as well as it running more lands in general than necessary. Ours is not a greedy manabase like Rock nor are we running a third color that warrants extra land slots as well as the fact we don't have to support KotR. Knowing this, I think you're manabase would be more optimized as:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
3 Swamp
1 Plains
The 1 Sensei's Divining Top seems moot without extra cantrip/fixing/tutors. Even if you've lucked out in drawing it previously its too strong a card NOT to run, particularly when we can scarcely justify the life loss, especially considering we're a midrange deck than can lose outright to burn or heavy aggro. Not only this, when run in conjunction with 8 fetches and 4 Stoneforge Mystic it essentially lets you reach any card in your deck you need without having to rely on cantrips or tutor spells. I'd run 3-4 SDT or none at all.
Duress/Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize I myself consider the value of removing any threat to be well worth 2 life, however, if you're looking for pragmatism then I would suggest simply going with 4 IoK. If combo is more prevalent in your meta you can perhaps justify the x2 MD Duress/TS, however beyond that I would either A) Run 2-3 Hymn instead, B) Not run them period, or C) SB them. Discard is less amazing late game whereas removal has value at nearly every point in the game. Given the RUG/Maverick meta you might just be better running extra removal.
@ Equipment:
Out of curiosity, why don't you MD Bskull? Its good against nearly every creature-based deck, it recovers life (which is absolutely necessary for ours) and it gives us a recurring threat. Given that your deck is the Souls variant I suppose its justified, but even then I would rather see you run Jitte/SoFaI/BSkull over SoLaS.
SB:
Would you care to elaborate on your meta so I can comment?
In regards to the Sneaky Show/S&T threat some people here are facing, has anyone considered Tariff? I know back when SA first started making a comeback after 5+years of inactivity Tariff had much discussion/playtesting. Not instant-speed but honestly S&T is far more prevalent a cheat than SA.
Forlorn Egoist
Tariff seems good. But something like Ensnaring Bridge is a Sneak/Show answer that has the advantage of being an Enlightened Tutor target.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist
True, but I myself have never been fond of the ET variant as I think beyond SFM our deck hardly has need of a ETutor toolbox. Honestly, how many MU is Ensnaring Bridge going to be insanely relevant? Even with ET the problem evolves that we need to gurantee we can grab that Bridge in the first several turns, and even after resolving it we still have to answer Emrakul meaning you still need to have Sac effects.
I'm not saying Tariff is the correct answer because its weaknesses are quite obvious, however barring exception to unique metas I think SA/S&T are sparce enough that they don't warrant us drastically changing our respective builds simply to accommodate an answer to "Beasties." (Prog/Emrakul/Reanimator creatures). Hell, you could even answer the threat partially by running cards which are useful in other MU but still effective against S&T. For example, runs some sac effects main/SB and then run something like Leyline of Sanctity and Extirpate. Leyline prevents Intuition from targetting you, and even if Intuition happens you can Extirpate whichever creature they pick (usually they go 3 Emmy). I'm not saying its foolproof, but my preference is to punt the match against the ocassional combo in exchange for guranteed success against more mainstream decks like Maverick and RUG Tempo.
Forlorn Egoist
Where do I sign up for guaranteed success against Maverick?Quote:
Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist
Joking aside, I feel ya. Tutoring for artifact and enchantment answers is not consistent with the fast tempo which explains why Deadguy is so good. People call it BW Tempo afterall.
For Sneak/Show, I would board in some additional answers. I play 2 Innocent Blood in the main, plus 4 Swords to Plowshares. I'd board in 2 Ensnaring Bridge, maybe 1 Enlightened Tutor, and 1 Oblivion Ring.
Maybe I shouldn't. Maybe the sac spells and Extirpate is the best high tempo way to go.
StP is really bad in this matchup. You can side that out without much worry. We could go proactive and have additional Thoughtseize and Duress come in. That might be better than Oblivion Ring or Needle/Revoker since they won't suck against other combo.
Also, 3-4 Cabal Therapy in the main if you play Souls and Bitterblossom. That plus some number of Thoughtseize can give you a chance game one.
Lol, yeah, that was somewhat of a typo on my part. ^^' Still, I tend to be favored in this MU post-board as they usually SB in Qasali Pridemage (if he isn't already MD), or maybe a little extra removal such as PtE, and on ocassion even Leyline of Sanctity. I, however, am removing discard in exchange for Go for the Throat, Pernicious Deed, Sword of Light and Shadow, and Powder Keg. Of course there is still room for me to lose, but post-board the MU tends to swing heavily in my favor.Quote:
Originally Posted by berksowl
As for S&T the strategy I've suggested has worked fantastically for me. You'd be surprised how many Intuition players don't realize the Oracle is "Target opponent." For me, anyway, running 7 discard + 3 Extirpate/3 Leyline of Sanctity tends to more than swing the MU in my favor. Of course its not bulletproof, but sac effects tend to be far less useful against aggro which is the prevalent archetype hence my reluctance to run it. Granted, I tend to only fight 1-2 S&T at my local meta and 3-5 at the bigger month tourneys so its less a concern for me than the dozens of Mavericks and RUGs I have to fight. :p
Speaking of which, if you haven't already tried it I high suggest running Lightning Greaves MD in your toolbox (I run Jitte/Bskull/Greaves w/SoLaS & Manriki in SB). Greaves its absolutely nuts as it can let you get in fresh beats with new creatures, let you do some fun SFM shenanigans late-game (like continuously dropping a Bskull), or as is the most common scenario, protecting your Mom.
Forlorn Egoist
Top 4'ed a GPT then scooped in a friend to the finals.
4 x Mother of Runes
4 x Dark Confidant
4 x Mirran Crusader
3 x Stoneforge Mystic
4 x Tidehollow Sculler
3 x Thalia, Wrecker of Shit
1 x Stillmoon Cavalier
4 x Swords to Plowshares
3 x Inquisition of Kozilek
3 x Cabal Therapy
1 x Jitte
1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
1 x Sword of Light and Shadow
2 x Vindicate
4 x Scrubland
4 x Marsh Flats
2 x Windswept Heath
2 x Bloodstained Mire
1 x Swamp
3 x Plains
1 x Karakas
1 x Volrath's Stronghold
4 x Wasteland
5 rounds. Went 3-1-1. Beat Moat-Less Enchantress in the top 8.
My board was a bit paranoid against SnT and RUG, and concessionary to combo. I was hoping all the discard would be enough, combined with crushing clock like armed crusader.
4 x Fleshbag Marauder (crush show and tell, was randomly helpful vs. enchantress)
4 x Yixlid Jailer (crush dredge)
2 x Perish (thresh, maverick, rando loam decks)
2 x Relic (thresh, dredge, rando loam decks)
1 x Jitte (mostly to blow other jittes, or vs. walmart burn)
2 x Stillmoon Cavalier (Stoneblade, Maverick he is an invulnerable man who doubles as a flying Moat)
People playing hymn right now are just wrong. Sculler is fantastic right now. A spell pierced hymn sets you back and leaves you going into your 3rd turn with no threats. Playing turn 2 hymn with an opening hand that incudes Mother means fetching scrubland, which on the draw is fucking miserable. They bolt your mom and wasteland your scrub and you are done vs. something like internet RUG.
You play line here is way smoother, basic plains into mother, basic swamp into sculler, they've likely blown their removal on mother if not then fantastic! Sculler is safe and can tuck a card and hold weapons. He has won games holding the High Tide the combo player needed to win.
Maverick is a bye with this build, you have a little game versus SnS with 10 targeted discard effects. I've beaten High Tide game with this deck 3 times now as well. 4 Thalia is probably OK, but without broken Brainstorm to fix hands I'm always concerned about legend flood.
Cabal therapy is a finesse card but is super powerful with all the hand knowledge you can get with the other 7 peek effects. It also gets you out from under an oppressive confidant, and has random utility versus Dredge game one. I've also flashed in weapons, then sacced my now Squired SFM for brutal turn 4's where I had previous hand knowledge.
Last June 17, I participated in the GP - legacy side event using my most recent BW build. I've only been able to playtest this a couple of times online. I really like the feel of this build which goes like:
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Plains
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Swamp
1 Godless Shrine
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Body and Mind
3 Chrome Mox
3 Bitterblossom
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Cabal Theraphy
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lingering Souls
2 Zealous Persecution
Sideboard(15)
3 Extirpate
2 Perish
2 Thoughtseize
2 Path to Exile
2 Vindicate
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Chalice of the Void
I finished 65th (2-3-2) at a 90ish man tournanment. I know I could've done better. It's just that I was prone to misplays and wasn't able to maximize the deck's potential.
I'll do my best to recall as much as I can, so you guys could give me feedback. Here it goes:
Round 1 - Affinity
Game 1: I won the die roll and is on the play. I lay my first land and cast IoK. I wasn't really expecting to run across affinity and thought that this'll be a quick match. My main deck revokers worked wonders and was able to neutralize his cranial platings. - Win.
SB:- discard package + pte,chalice and extirpate
Game 2: Explosive start for him getting most of his 0 casting dudes accompanied by signal pest. - Loss
Game 3: both of us mulled to 5. I was able to outdo his pace by having bitterblossom + lingering souls early, keeping his dudes at bay. Somewhere along the line, I misplayed and should have taken the offensive but chose to play defense when I could have abused an attached jitte. He managed to recover and put ravager counters on an cranial plated ornithopter. I was not able to finish him off during the last 5 turns. - Draw.
Round 2 - GW Maverick
Game 1:I was able to wipe the board with ZP (zealous persecution)and overrun him with tokens. (Win)
SB - minus discard package + removal and extirpate
Game 2: misplayed into trying to STP his terravore, while he has a mother of runes when I had enough mana to cast zealous persecution then STP. Maze of ith is a real pain! (Loss)
Game 3: He was rushing the game as time was running out. I was able to revoker his KotRs and was able to land my mirrans. Close fight. (Win)
Round 3 - RB Reanimator
Game 1: Gin Taxias took the win from me. I was unable to find any kind of removal. (Loss)
SB: - discard + extirpate,cotv,pte
Game 2: mirran crusader + sofi ftw!! I managed to win without using hate.
Game 3: I thought I was going to win. I had a mom, bob and mirran out. He was already down to 8 life when he managed to reanimate Elesh Norn, wiping out my army. I was unable to recover. Sad (Loss)
Round 4 - Counter Balance Thopter Sword Combo
Game 1: Revoker + Bob beats. He had some thopters but it was still manageable. (Win)
SB: - stp,chrome mox + vindicate,extirpate,o.ring
Game 2: My revokers did not stick this time. He managed to set up counterbalance + sensei's top lock. He also managed to get back to basics + propaganda in play. Thopter spammed. (Loss)
We did not play game 3- (draw)
Round 5 - UW planeswalker control
Game 1: turn 1 IoK, getting vedalken shackles (I hate shackles!) Able to make a biiterblossom stick at turn 4 or 5? I know I was able to stall him a bit with wasteland on his manlands - mishra and colonade. he let me cast my mirran saders only to be STP'd. I lost to the attrition war between his elspeth and my bitblos. He also got a chimeric mass jace in play.(Loss)
SB: - pte,chromemox +thoughtseize,extirpate,vindicate
Game 2: turn 1 cabal therapy (was thinking of calling brainstorm but called StP instead) with him revealing shackles, 2x brainstorm, counterspell,spell snare,land,land. I had Bob,2xmirran crusader and lands in hand. My bob got snared, he managed to get shackles out, I didn't cast mirrans due to shackles. He eventually got elspeth and jace.(Loss)
Round 6 - RDW / Burn
Game 1 & 2: I got burned pretty bad. With no means of getting my life total back up, I'm pretty much screwed. I miss batterskull and nighthawk :(. (Loss)
Round 7 - Reanimator
Game 1: He got one of his targets (griselbrand) to the graveyard and passes the turn. I play bojuka bog. He puts another griselbrand to the yard which I was still able to STP. Beat him with mirran crusader and sword.(Win)
Game 2: He mulls to 5 or 6 and was able to get griselbrand to the yard. I in turn answer with bojuka bog on my turn again. Mirran crusaders win. (Win)
Overall, I like how the deck plays, I just need to be more aggressive in my plays. Need more testing and game play to practice.
Constructive criticism is very much welcome. Thanks.
How was the moms working for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by abetman
The moms were okay.
Went 6 - 0 today in a PGtrial Ghent, splited the top 8 as im not going to the gp anyway. Didnt want to dreamcrush anyone. Won against sneak and show, maverick, rug-delver, Painter servant, bant and a UW.
List I used where:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Lingering Souls
4 Bitterblossom
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquision of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the veil
2 Sorin Lord of innistrad
1 Elspeth, Knight-errant
4 Swords to plowshares
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Chrome Mox
4 Scrublands
4 Marshflats
2 Polluted Delta
2 Fetid Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Swamp
1 Plains
Board:
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ethersworn canonist
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Perish
As you can see, not using any Hymn to Tourach atm. I rather push through my walkers with 1 mana discard spells then having taking out 2 cards I dont have any control over. Really like the walkers, the discard package, the token generators and the persecutions. I do see alot of people removing their chrome mox but for me at least im gonna playing them still. They have saved me from blood moon vs sneak and show. Geting out faster walkers. Baiting stifles with the imprint triggers. The moxes gives much needed tempo boost that sometimes are needed and in matchups where they are less useful its always possible to remove 1 of them.
Something I've begun to notice is that with the vast quantity of people adjusting their builds to answer Maverick, the deck itself has slowly but surely been pushed from the meta in favor of greater streams of combo and RUG (and come M13, mostly likely the sporadic Merfolk). I've noticed this particularly when I've been entering metas with a build designed to crush Maverick only to find myself against a RUG player where those card slots become dead.
Realizing this, I am curious to see how players here have been answering RUG. Currently my SB is situated as:
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Go for the Throat
3 Extirpate
3 Vindicate
3 Leyline of Sanctity
With 3 Zealous Persecution and Umezawa's Jitte, Lightning Greaves, and Batterskull being the relevant MD cards.
Previously the Vindicate had been Powder Keg, but once I saw less Maverick/Dredge I switched them out. Firstly, I'm considering removing Vindicate entirely from my 75. I'm loathe to do so in those random situations where its relevant, but frankily the most common threats will either be spells or creatures, either of which is answered with regular removal or discard. 3 Mana can be a hefty (and annoying) investment.
Secondly, I'm considering removing my x3 MD Hymn to Tourach in favor of possibly x2-3 Duress or Inquisition of Kozilek. Considering I run so many white sources as well as a green splash sometimes setting myself up for BB can be annoying, particularly when I want to play aggro or not fetch out all basic swamps. Also its important to note that Spell Snare is rather popular atm.
Since Stoneforge has died out I can perhaps remove the Manriki and in place of SoLaS throw in SoFaI, or possibly even SoWaP (considering it gives me the static def vs R/W removal while also netting me life).
Has Liliana been performing on par for the deck? I've always disliked Planeswalkers, however I've begun to note more and more Bx players using her (not to mention I got ROFLstomped today by a Pox player today who dropped her T1 and owned me both games -.-).
Forlorn Egoist