[Primer] Elves!

Allright, I'm going to be more specific on my questions from now on, since I guess that'd also help you guys in helping me :smile:

So first of all, let's say you're playing against Reanimator and it's turn 3. They still don't have something out, since we got to Thoughtseize their reanimation spell.
Our board is Forest, Bayou, Llanowar Elves, Dryad Arbor (not sick), Nettle Sentinel. We have a NO and our opponent did not have a Force or Spell Pierce when we Seized T1.

Our options are casting NO on Hoof, attacking for 15 (not lethal), casting NO for Scavenging Ooze (no mana up) or casting lets say another 1 drop and a Visionary.

What's the play?

(I'm asking this to basically get to know if NO -> Ooze is actually a thing or if you will only GSZ for it ever).

Also, what if we had a 5th mana, still assuming Crater is not lethal, but will stop them from drawing with Griselbrand?



Another question on my mind has been, assuming I'm running Choke, which MUs to bring it in for. Really not sure on that. The same go3es for Worldspine Wurm. I get that it's bad vs. any decks running white spotremoval, but where is it really good?

If you have no mana up after you get Ooze out, he is worthless in that situation. I would look at options other than NO first. The thing I would not do is cast NO. I want him to think he has more time than he does. I can't kill him this turn, smack him next.

Edit. If you can keep a mana open, I would grab Ooze. It's rough on them and some cards they can combo into can just kill us. If you can, play it safe.

I agree with Dice Box. Although I might have brought in Ruric Thar and that could be an attractive NO target. Just a thought.

I wrote up a report for SCG Portland last weekend. I didn't have a very good finish, but it was a fun enough trip that I thought it was worth writing a few words about. You can find it in the Tournament Report forum, or just click here.

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Originally Posted by danyul

I agree with Dice Box. Although I might have brought in Ruric Thar and that could be an attractive NO target. Just a thought.

I wrote up a report for SCG Portland last weekend. I didn't have a very good finish, but it was a fun enough trip that I thought it was worth writing a few words about. You can find it in the Tournament Report forum, or just click here.

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Nice report (and a decent finish too. Though I guess most reports feature awesome finishes^^), I always prefer when people tell a bit of a story instead of just "Yeah, went there, round 1.... round 10, 7-3, was great!" reports.


As for the Ruric Thar idea - Is he really a good target against reanimator? assuming that Hoof wasn't lethal that'd give the opponent like 1-2 turns + 1 spell and if that spell happens to be Exhume on Griselbrand it's over. Though I guess we knew he didn't have it earlier and if he digs for it, that'd be his one and only shot at hitting.


Notes on Choke would still be appreciated :D
I wonder which MUs it's there for (and which MUs it's "good enough" to bring in if you sb it) since so far it didn't seem awesome to me D:


Edit: also what's the deal with those Packmasters? Where is that card good?^^ I mean I guess it's kind of nice against Terminus?

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Originally Posted by GerMagic

Nice report (and a decent finish too. Though I guess most reports feature awesome finishes^^), I always prefer when people tell a bit of a story instead of just "Yeah, went there, round 1.... round 10, 7-3, was great!" reports.


As for the Ruric Thar idea - Is he really a good target against reanimator? assuming that Hoof wasn't lethal that'd give the opponent like 1-2 turns + 1 spell and if that spell happens to be Exhume on Griselbrand it's over. Though I guess we knew he didn't have it earlier and if he digs for it, that'd be his one and only shot at hitting.


Notes on Choke would still be appreciated :D
I wonder which MUs it's there for (and which MUs it's "good enough" to bring in if you sb it) since so far it didn't seem awesome to me D:


Edit: also what's the deal with those Packmasters? Where is that card good?^^ I mean I guess it's kind of nice against Terminus?

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Over the ruric tar, I prefer other sideboard cards or simply the deathrite shaman vs reanimator^^, I think progenitus is good too in this matchup

Choke is awesome, its a lock vs blue decks, and rug/bug/wur delver its gg, cause they are not running non island (maybe the bug control, or 1 bayou^^)

The packmasters is good in a lot of MU, the wolfs are food for the craddle, and they have deadtouch, and with the champ on a elf, you are proteccting one elf for a hard removal

regardss!

Bug delver usualy plays 2 bayou...

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Originally Posted by Togores

Bug delver usualy plays 2 bayou...

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Plus we clearly run enough removal to reliably kill Deathrites. Wait, no we don't.

Choke is great VS the blue decks that don't have access to Abrupt Decay. However, those Abrupt Decays are usually in high demand so perhaps Choke is fine if you can bait the decay with other high value permanents? I'm not entirely sure. It's widely believed that our BUG Delver matchup is favorable anyway, so I don't know if you would actually need the Choke there. And, as Zombie pointed out, they are running Deathrites as well and that can help them work around Choke.

If you don't already have it main, Scavenging Ooze seems better against BUG Delver. And of course, our own Deathrites + our untap effects can help negate their Deathrites.

Yeah BUG is fine with the standard stuff. Decays, Progenitus. Meekstone and/or Library if you have some. Little else needed really, especially if you have stuff like Pendelhaven, Warcaller or Packmaster in the main. Packmaster is a total PITA for them if it resolves.

Thanks for the feedback!
I'll be trying Choke (since I refuse to play wb Meekstones anyway ^^) then, though I'm not sure I want it against BUG Delver it should, according to you guys, still be good against any other Delver decks, Miracles and Show and Tell (though I guess there's not really space to bring it in against SnT since we already board in all of those discard spells)?


Those Packmasters seem really interesting. If you get to stick him with a Cradle out you can probably power out a few tokens pretty fast and at least getting something back against a Terminus or the like seems decent. That being said, as a 1-off I'm not sure when to get him. I guess he's good when you get value out of him right away and/or Ooze/Hoof aren't real options.

What I'm really wondering about though is if he's better than the 4th NO. Aside from having multiples (though even that can be good against anything black or blue) I don't really see him being better than NO. Also both need you to have something on board. I guess there's no harm in testing it though, seems pretty sweet against stuff like RUG Delver (since he's hard to kill for them and the tokens are awesome against their threats).

You can just be a greedy SOB and run 4NO and the Packmaster. I do that and it's been fine.

Any opzion on the m15 new elf

[card]Reclamation Sage[/card]

????

It seems worth replacing the Viridian Shaman with it, but it's a 2/1 instead of a 2/2.
Still, been able to destroy a Counterbalance in g1 it's not that bad I guess.
What do you think?

From the last few pages

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Originally Posted by DarthObiwan

I made a few minor misplays that didn't come back to bite me. I do know I need to work on sideboarding, ran into some decks I didn't know all that well. The big thing I learned is how good Reclamation Sage will be. The two matches I lost, if my Viridian Shaman had been Sage I would have either won or been in better position to win.

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Originally Posted by DarthObiwan

I note in my hand is a Viridian Shaman and I wish it was Reclamation Sage with all my heart. Moat was definitely not something on my radar to deal with and I paid for it.

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Originally Posted by DarthObiwan

Round 4 Imperial Painter
This match completely showed me how much Sage is going to impact our match ups against various decks.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

With Reclamation Sage hitting the mix as soon as M15 is out, we pretty much have a makeshift Abrupt Decay right there

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Originally Posted by Julian23

With Reclamation Sage, there's no reason to dilute the maindeck with Abrupt Decays.

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Originally Posted by Said-In-Contest

Any opzion on the m15 new elf

[card]Reclamation Sage[/card]

????

It seems worth replacing the Viridian Shaman with it, but it's a 2/1 instead of a 2/2.
Still, been able to destroy a Counterbalance in g1 it's not that bad I guess.
What do you think?

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The question is not will it replace Shaman, its how many Sage's do we run. I feel one main, and one in the board should be good.

I agree with that. Main is easy, you just switch the shaman over. The side for me is easy too, I just cut a Enchantment hate.

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Originally Posted by Oath Breaker

The question is not will it replace Shaman, its how many Sage's do we run. I feel one main, and one in the board should be good.

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If we do go 1 main 1 side is there any more reason to have decays anymore? Maybe just Meekstones or storm/ combo hate?

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

I agree with that. Main is easy, you just switch the shaman over. The side for me is easy too, I just cut a Enchantment hate.

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Going down to 2 Decays? Seems suspect to me, the creature removal part is important too. Though if you have extra then for sure. But I wouldn't part with any of my 3 Decays.

I am not cutting a Decay, I am cutting a GSZ target for another one.

I don't run a gsz target in the board besides progenitus. Here's what I'm working with

2 pitching needle
1 null rod
2 xenagos the revealer
2 thoughtseize
3 cabal therapy
1 N/O
1 progenitus
3 abrupt decay

I think that running hate that can be tutored is always worth a think. We have open to us a toolbox, might as well make sure we fill it. This elf I feel should be a two of, one in the main, one in reserve.