[Deck] Dredge

Which matches were you SBing out Lion's Eye Diamond over Breakthrough, I've generally preferred the opposite because Breakthrough is better than Lion's Eye Diamond at recovering from hate and mulliganing down to six?

I pretty much like everything about that list tho', except for Memory's Journey. I think I want to try 2xChain of Vapor in those slots - the only card that has ever given me a chance in hell vs Reanimator is Faerie Macabre fwiw, but I like shoring up the mirror because they pretty much scoop if they aren't playing Leyline also which makes it a high value card.

I board Breakthrough > LED because i came to the conclusion, when i play against non-blue/combo decks, that 8 studies + coliseum are enough.
I never had any problems with it. If i have a hand with a study and LED i can also dredge for four (4) ( flashback looting )
In addition, against some blue decks, there are some players playing red elemental/pyroblast. And this card can't counter LED.

Memory's Journey: I decided this in the morning of this day. I thought this could be better than Purify/Coffin purge. All in all were there no diference, because all decks i played against were playing artifact hate or extirpate. And the RUG player played Ravenous Trap, too.
But i think i will switch the journeys for purify/purge.

K1w1

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Originally Posted by k1w1

First of all, i did a bad decision to play Memory's Journey > Coffin Purge/Purify Grave. I never used it and i never had the chance to play it from my hand. In addition it gets hit by Spell Snare.

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What awful opponent left Spell Snare in against you running Dredge, and what deck would be worth boarding in Journey against that actually runs Spell Snare?

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Originally Posted by Hollywood

What awful opponent left Spell Snare in against you running Dredge, and what deck would be worth boarding in Journey against that actually runs Spell Snare?

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Don't the Journeys fill up roughly the same role as purify/coffin purge?

That's how I saw the card. If so, the answer is every blue deck. You still need answers to their Extractions and Memory's Journey has the downsides of a)it can get snared b) it's harder to pay a daze.


Edit: I went 4-2 at the same tourney with the same list, only +2 Purify the Grave -2 Memory's Journey in the board.

It's for sure a bad decision, but believe me...there are so many players doing that..
Decks with surgical extraction/snapcaster. In addition, EOT returning narcomoeba back into the deck is nice, too.

K1w1

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Originally Posted by K1w1

@ Final Fortune
I NEVER missed DR. There were still enough power without them. As i played against Reanimator i wasto really happy, that i didn't play any DR-targets. Ok, i lost, but i felt fine to see his face, that he realized i didn't play DR-targets.
I boarded out the LEDs in the following MatchUps:
Canadian
Reanimator
RUG
The most outboarded card was Breakthrough. I find, it's ok to have them G1 but you don't need them in G2/3. I never boarded out the Cephalid Coliseum. They are really nice to have especially without LED (!) because i don't have the extra speed without LED. Sure, they are better WITH LED, but i wouldn't board them out. Tarnished Citadel was nice to have after boarding Nature's claim and Memory's Journey.
But i should say i never faced any Wastelands.

I hope i could help

K1w1

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It's encouraging to see good results for lists that also aren't running Dread Return.

I'm running almost exactly the main deck, minus LED, and with Tarnished Citadels - essentially, my main deck looks more like your "sideboarded" configuration :tongue:. Not running LED clears-up some additional space in the sideboard, and I'm trying to figure out what to do with it :confused:.

Based on the recent feedback from a few people, though, both Memory's Journey and Coffin Purge/Purify the Grave seem to have been underwhelming. I would also put a few Chain of Vapors in to help with the Reanimator match-up, among others.

Congrats of the great finish!

Kind Regards,
jares

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Originally Posted by K1w1

I board Breakthrough > LED because i came to the conclusion, when i play against non-blue/combo decks, that 8 studies + coliseum are enough.
I never had any problems with it. If i have a hand with a study and LED i can also dredge for four (4) ( flashback looting )
In addition, against some blue decks, there are some players playing red elemental/pyroblast. And this card can't counter LED.

Memory's Journey: I decided this in the morning of this day. I thought this could be better than Purify/Coffin purge. All in all were there no diference, because all decks i played against were playing artifact hate or extirpate. And the RUG player played Ravenous Trap, too.
But i think i will switch the journeys for purify/purge.

K1w1

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Ravenous Trap is the tech! hehe :laugh:

Did you find out if he played a full set? I've never had the pleasure of being "trapped" :tongue:

Cheers,
jares

...just win the die roll.

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

...just win the die roll.

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Sounds like fun :laugh:

I didn't ask but i think the number is : 2
He also boarded 11 cards against me, so... :D

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Originally Posted by K1w1

I didn't ask but i think the number is : 2
He also boarded 11 cards against me, so... :D

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Wow... now that's what you call HATE :laugh:

Must have been quite the experience :tongue:

Kudos for still being able to beat him though.

Cheers,
jares

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Wow... now that's what you call HATE

Must have been quite the experience

Kudos for still being able to beat him though.

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Yeah, thx. I saw in this MatchUp:
Pyroblast
Red Elemental blast
Hydroblast ( for looting lol )
Firespout
Tormod's Crypt
Grafdigger's Cage
Ravenous Trap
Some of this in multiple.

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Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus

I went 4-2 at the same tourney with the same list, only +2 Purify the Grave -2 Memory's Journey in the board.

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Would you care to elaborate on the two match-ups that gave you some trouble?

How was your experience with Purify the Grave?

Kind Regards,
jares

I played the following LED list in a local tournament this weekend:

MD (61 cards)
12x Dredgers
12x Gold lands (city of Brass, Mines, Paradises)
4x LEDs
4x Lootings
4x CS
4x Breakthrough
3x PImps
3x Ichorids
4x Narcomoebas
4x Bridges
4x Cabal Therapy
2x DR
1x Sun Titan

SB:
3x Nature`s Claim
3x Chain of Vapor
2x Chewer
1x Faerie Macabre
3x Noxious Revival
1x Angel of Despair
1x Blazing Archon
1x FKZ

It was a 4 rounds swiss tournament with cut for top 4. (12 people playing)

Round 1 - vs. UR Delver (2-0)
G1 - he played around Delver+lightning bolt+Snapy... but was not enough to race me.
G2 - (+3 Noxious Revival, -2DR, -1Titan)
he did t1 delver, I did therapy for SE. he had a 2x Snapy, a chain lightning, FoW and land. since he didn`t get any dangerous threat, it was an easy match
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Round 2 - vs. A sort of RBG land destruction (2-0)
G1 - I kept a hand without land but with breaktrough, LED, CS, GGT. he started and played land, lanowar, mox diamond. without knowing his deck I decided to go DDD and even in slow mode I won
G2 - I noticed he used 12 cards from sideboar, what imo means he was not prepared against me. I didnt change my MD.
He started with land go ... and in summary was another easy match
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Round 3 - vs. mono R Burn (2-0)
G1 - I had a hand with pImp, Looting, CS, Brass, paradise, 2x bridges. he started with guide giving me a city of brass. I drew therapy and played pImp. he ataked and used seering blaze and I discarded the bridges to have 2 zombies. in my turn, I used CS finding GGT and Stinkwed Imp, then I used looting finding 2x moebas, +1 bridge, 1x ichorid and 2x therapies. I discarded his hand making +6 zombies he put a Keldon Marauder in his turn, but was too late.
G2 - (+3 Nature`s Claim, +2 Chewer, -2 DR, -1 Titan, -1 LED, -1 Breaktrough)
He started the game with a Tormod`s Cript and rift bolt. luckly I had on my hand a chewer. Then the match was quite similar to the previous one
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Round 4 - Reanimate (1-2)
G1 - I started with a perfect hand with breaktrough, Looting, LED, 2xDredgers, paradise, moeba, and decided to go fast and furious with LED as unswer to Breaktrough. he didnt counter, so gg
G2 - He sideboarded 4 cards, so I was expecting leyline, at this point was dificult to decide how to board. I did +3 CoV, +1 Faerie, +2 Noxious, +1 Claim, -2 DR, -1Titan, -2 LED, -2 Breaktrough.
he started without leyline, just land-go!! ... I had a Noxious in hand and did CS discarding a thug and an ichorid. he did EOT entomb for Elesh and in his turn he played Exhume. I unswered with Noxious but he countered with FoW (if it was Faerie insteeeead !!!). I played few turns more around CS and therapy trying to get information for g3.
G3 - (+1 Breakthrough, -1 Claim)
I started with a hand with 2xTherapies, Pimp, Stinkweed Imp, CS, Bridge and Gemstone. he didnt put leyline. I was in doubt if it would be better to start with therapy, but in the end I did Pimp. his turn, he played a ponder... EOT, I discarded Stinkwed Imp. after dredge5 I got a moeba, played therapy and he countered with FoW (discarding CS), then I discarded bridge and sacrificed moeba for a second therapy... countered againg by a second FoW (discarding ponder). His turn he played entomb+Reanimate for Elesh... gg

on the top 4 there were me, Reanimate, Hive mind, and Elves

Semi-final - vs. Elves (2-0)
G1 - I got a good hand against his slow mode.
G2 - he sideboarded 5 cards ... I did +2 chewer, +3 Claim, -2 DR, -1 Titan, -1 LED, -1Breakthrough).
this match was nice. we both had slow hand, and after few turns I discarded his hand and make a horde of zombies also with 2x moebas and a Pimp. his turn he drew and discarded for fauna shaman, got a Emrakul and played with Priest of Titania+Quirion. He got a turn and atacked for 15... I sacrificed 2 lands, 3 creatures and a token... with 3 bridges on the GY was enough for a huge army.

Final - vs. Hive Mind (2-1)
G1 - I exploded with the best possible hand ever ...
G2 - After a lot of changes I decided to go -1 ichorid, +FKZ
he started with ponder. I played CS, discarding GGT and Bridge. he had a city of traitors and played show and tell for Hive Mind ... casting pact of titan
G3 - I started with therapy for Hive Mind ... and ... I got it !! Then I drew a CS and Assembled the win

Main points:
1 - In general I feel confortable not playing Cephalid coliseum... personal opinion.
2 - I would have won the match agains Reanimator if instead of Noxious I had put more Faeries. However, I couldn`t evaluate his weight against Delver. I was thinking the following... I have chances to beat Delver even after a SE, but really small chances against Reanimator after an Elesh.
3 - I felt that the DR package dont make any diference in MD ... and when I played against elves (I could have boarded the blaze archon and due to the amount of cards he boarded in I didnt use it)... I will consider to take out all DR.

Feel free to coment ...

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Originally Posted by jares

Would you care to elaborate on the two match-ups that gave you some trouble?

How was your experience with Purify the Grave?

Kind Regards,
jares

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Lost against Maverick and Nic Fizt /w Blue.
Won against MUD, Nic Fit, Canadian(close one), Dredge
Boarded Purify against Canadian, used it once, saved me.

Grats on your finish and thanks for interesting report. Some quick qs:
Are you going to remove dr package for the next tourney?I personally think that dr package is kinda a meta dependant thing: if you can brake your meta with Iona(burn), Elesh(elves) do it, if not I think it is not needed.
Why do you use Sun Titan as your dr target?

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Originally Posted by MadManMax

Why do you use Sun Titan as your dr target?

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I assume it's mainly as a value target since it let's you get back an LED or coliseum, orland to continue dredging. functions similar to sphinx in the old lists i assume,but you need a lot more to go right for it, but at the same time has a touch more utility (brings back a thug to therapy to rebuy a narcomoeba, etc.) just some added value of recursion since you flip your library into your graveyard.

Nice report! Yes I agree that dr main feels pretty unnecessary. Keeping a few on the board for decks packing surgical is a good idea though. Maybe you can try -3 dr package, -2 rainbows, + 4 Cephalid Coliseum. I've found Coliseum to be a very useful card. I've never not wanted to draw it.

I also think that noxious as a anti surgical card is ok. But if rather just board in dread returns so I have additional threat density. Delver cannot deal with a ggt.

Note that DR does not actually always help against surgical. You still need 3 creatures first,which can be denied.

@ Hokus

There wouldn't be a differnce if Purify the Grave would've been Memory's Journey, or?