[Deck] Dredge

Alright guys, I was reading this thread today, and decided to make an account so I can start on this great forum. I started playing Dredge about a month ago, and I'm about 3 cards ($7) short of finishing my list (PM me if you have Modern Masters Cities of Brass!) Anyway, I'd like some feedback on my list, because I don't really think it's the normal list:

Mana:
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Mana Confluence
4x City of Brass
4x Cephalid Coliseum
1x Gemstone Mine

Draw:
4x Careful Study
4x Faithless Looting
4x Breakthrough

Dredgers:
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Golgari Thug

Recursion:
4x Bridge From Below
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Narcomoeba
3x Ichorid

DR Package:
3x Dread Return
1x Flame-Kin Zealot
1x Griselbrand

Sideboard:
1x Gemstone Mine
3x Lotus Petal
1x Chain of Vapor
3x Firestorm
1x Memory's Journey
3x Abrubt Decay
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Ashen Rider
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria

I would say it's definitely more on the combo-y side of Dredge, but I really want to hear some suggestions.

EDIT: Only been to 1 local event but I 4-0ed it with a list 1-2 cards away from this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Que

@Ozy. Sup Caleb. Hows it been going?

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Mostly grad school. Occasional MTG

My current list:
1 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough
4 Faithless Looting
4 Putrid Imp
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Unmask
4 Ichorid
4 Bridge From Below
4 Narcomoeba
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
2 Mana Confluence
3 Cephalid Coliseum
SB:
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Firestorm
1 Mana Confluence
1 Dread Return
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Ancient Grudge

Leyline isn't exactly popular so I cut all my outs to it. I upped the imp count to feed Unmask, but I want a maindeck DR and the last thug back in. BT is too powerful to ignore, but you never want to see multiples in the opener ( unlike every other card.) Whatever cost you have from unmasking is outweighed by crippling the opponent's ability to interact, and making Theraoy even better. Don't forget you can just cast it turn two after getting back a dredger. You can also unmask yourself in a pinch or to set up a strong T1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

Mostly grad school. Occasional MTG

My current list:
1 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough
4 Faithless Looting
4 Putrid Imp
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Unmask
4 Ichorid
4 Bridge From Below
4 Narcomoeba
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
2 Mana Confluence
3 Cephalid Coliseum
SB:
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Firestorm
1 Mana Confluence
1 Dread Return
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Ancient Grudge

Leyline isn't exactly popular so I cut all my outs to it. I upped the imp count to feed Unmask, but I want a maindeck DR and the last thug back in. BT is too powerful to ignore, but you never want to see multiples in the opener ( unlike every other card.) Whatever cost you have from unmasking is outweighed by crippling the opponent's ability to interact, and making Theraoy even better. Don't forget you can just cast it turn two after getting back a dredger. You can also unmask yourself in a pinch or to set up a strong T1.

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Removing black cards that feed the Ichorid engine? Sounds REAL legit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alpalbp

Alright guys, I was reading this thread today, and decided to make an account so I can start on this great forum. I started playing Dredge about a month ago, and I'm about 3 cards ($7) short of finishing my list (PM me if you have Modern Masters Cities of Brass!) Anyway, I'd like some feedback on my list, because I don't really think it's the normal list:

Mana:
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Mana Confluence
4x City of Brass
4x Cephalid Coliseum
1x Gemstone Mine

Draw:
4x Careful Study
4x Faithless Looting
4x Breakthrough

Dredgers:
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Golgari Thug

Recursion:
4x Bridge From Below
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Narcomoeba
3x Ichorid

DR Package:
3x Dread Return
1x Flame-Kin Zealot
1x Griselbrand

Sideboard:
1x Gemstone Mine
3x Lotus Petal
1x Chain of Vapor
3x Firestorm
1x Memory's Journey
3x Abrubt Decay
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Ashen Rider
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria

I would say it's definitely more on the combo-y side of Dredge, but I really want to hear some suggestions.

EDIT: Only been to 1 local event but I 4-0ed it with a list 1-2 cards away from this.

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The list is pretty comboish, eh. I personally don't like it, since I've been playing quadlaser forever. 11 dredgers is the bare minimum, 12 is the stock. Not playing Putrid Imp nor Street Wraiths might make your Ichorid starve, you'll have to eat Stinkweed Imps and Golgari Thugs, and that can hurt you when slow dredging.

What myself and other players in this forum have concluded is that killing your opponent in fashion with Flame-kin or Flayer is nice and all, but killing with 6+ zombies and Ichoirds the next turn is pretty much the same.

tl;dr: The choice is about playstyle. If you're confortable with the combo list, just go for it. It's as fun as the other lists.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

The list is pretty comboish, eh. I personally don't like it, since I've been playing quadlaser forever. 11 dredgers is the bare minimum, 12 is the stock. Not playing Putrid Imp nor Street Wraiths might make your Ichorid starve, you'll have to eat Stinkweed Imps and Golgari Thugs, and that can hurt you when slow dredging.

What myself and other players in this forum have concluded is that killing your opponent in fashion with Flame-kin or Flayer is nice and all, but killing with 6+ zombies and Ichoirds the next turn is pretty much the same.

tl;dr: The choice is about playstyle. If you're confortable with the combo list, just go for it. It's as fun as the other lists.

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I'd like to see your list then, because I think I'd rather play an aggro deck rather than a combo deck, although I'd still like to have a DR package. Also, I'm trying to get every single card necessary for every iteration of Dredge so that I can play whatever build I want based on the meta.

So I had a conversation with a few people the other day about how dredge is getting kind of getting hated out indirectly because of U/R Delver being so good, and even more recently the success of 3 Storm decks getting into the top 8 of the Legacy Seattle Invitational.

i feel like you can overcome the hate if you play well enough, but I would like to know how some others feel about the current meta game as it applies to Dredge.

So with the 2 most prominent forms of graveyard hate being Containment Priest and Grafdigger's Cage, neither of which stop Bridge triggers, would it be a better plan to run the evoke creatures (ingot chewer & wispmare) as your anti-hate over Abrupt Decays? Bridge triggers and lower cost vs Uncounterability and flexibility.

I need to start preparing my sideboard for the Philly Open. I'm expecting plenty of Delver, with Miracles, Elves, Stoneblade, and Storm making up most of the field.

Current list:
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Golgari Thug
4x Ichorid
4x Narcomoeba
3x Putrid Imp
4x Stinkweed Imp

3x Breakthrough
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Careful Study
1x Dread Return
4x Faithless Looting
4x LED
4x Bridge from Below

3x Cephalid Coliseum
2x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Mana Confluence

Sideboard:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Ashen Rider
2x Chain of Vapor
1x Dread Return
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2x Firestorm
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
2x Lotus Petal
2x Surgical Extraction

Any suggestions are welcome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gibbousm

So with the 2 most prominent forms of graveyard hate being Containment Priest and Grafdigger's Cage, neither of which stop Bridge triggers, would it be a better plan to run the evoke creatures (ingot chewer & wispmare) as your anti-hate over Abrupt Decays? Bridge triggers and lower cost vs Uncounterability and flexibility.

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Yes. I would agree with this. The Evoke creatures have been working out well recently. The reason I made the switch, was that there has not been a better time for Coliseum, as maybe one deck in the Top 7-8 performers runs Wasteland. And you can't run Decay with four Coliseum.

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Originally Posted by Que

.... I've made another minor tweak to the mainboard that allows us to run some number of Street Wraith. At first I thought it would be Gitaxian Probe as it helps with Cabal Therapy and its a free draw/Dredge. However, I don't think dredge really needs this and instead I opted for SW. It is black which means Ichorid food (I like it more when I'm slow dredging; hitting SW and Putrid Imp to remove to Ichorid sounds better than removing my Thug/Stinkweed), it is uncounterable, and still gives us that free draw. Not to mention you can use it instant speed which allows you to hold it until absolutely necessary i.e. in response to a DRS activation or surigical extraction which are targeting a dredger.

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I agree regarding Probe > after playing Manaless for ages, I've had Probe countered plenty of times to protect their hands' content.
Should they not be playing counter, I'm sure the question is a bit more tricky, but for me I like SW.

A *mana-free, uncounterable* dredge/draw spell in hand is always good, especially when Icky or Unmask can make use of it.
But I like it for it's surprise factor > opponents aren't used to seeing it in LED-Dredge.
I've been running 3 Pimps & 2 SW's with a single DR in the main.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parcher

Yes. I would agree with this. The Evoke creatures have been working out well recently. The reason I made the switch, was that there has not been a better time for Coliseum, as maybe one deck in the Top 7-8 performers runs Wasteland. And you can't run Decay with four Coliseum.

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Yeah I made the switch too, but so far I'm a little concerned on sideboard space. They DO allow us to run less mana sources in the side thankfully.
Since Decay can handle almost any hate, and the evoke creatures are focussed on one type of hate, how many of each are you guys running?
And are you still running a small number of Claims for redundancy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slave

how many of each are you guys running?
And are you still running a small number of Claims for redundancy?

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Well considering that I was running 3 Abrupt Decays and 2 Petals, I decided to go with 3 Ingot Chewers and 2 Wispmares
I currently have 2 Chain of Vapors in the sideboard as an answer to everything. While I do like Nature's Claim, Chain hits everything AND can be cast off of Colosseum. The downside is, unless I have a cabal therapy to follow up, their hate is just coming right back. I feel Chain is better in the Flamekin/Flayer builds of the deck as you can bounce the stuff during your opponent's end step then combo off your next turn.

Claim = Permanent removal but only artifacts and enchantments (not scooze, drs, or containment priest) gives you more time to assemble critical mass.
Chain = Temporary removal but hits everything except lands. Can be cast off of any land.

I wish I had 20 cards to work with for my sideboard instead of only 15.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alpalbp

I'd like to see your list then, because I think I'd rather play an aggro deck rather than a combo deck, although I'd still like to have a DR package. Also, I'm trying to get every single card necessary for every iteration of Dredge so that I can play whatever build I want based on the meta.

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My list is the Quadlaser a little tweaked:

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Mana Confluence
4 Gemstone Mine
1 City of Brass
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
3 Putrid Imp
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Dread Return
4 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
SB: 3 Lotus Petal
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Wispmare
SB: 2 Ingot Chewer
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre (this is my flex slot, I have a lot of Reanimator in my meta)
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Dread Return
SB: 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite/Iona, Shield of Emeria (depends if I expect aggro or combo).

So its one week until the Philly Open and I need to nail down my Sideboard and which Maindeck DR target I want.

For the MD DR target its between Iona and Elesh Norn. Both win games. I'm leaning more towards Iona as its the unfair decks I'm worried about rather than the fair decks but when they don't win on the spot, Elesh Norn ends games faster by pumping zombies and ichorids.

My current sideboard is:
1x Ashen Rider
1x Dread Return
1x Elesh Norn/Iona
3x Firestorm
3x Ingot Chewer
2x Nature's Claim
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Wispmare

I also have available Petals and Abrupt Decays but given that Containment Priest and Grafdigger's Cage don't stop Bridge triggers I'm leaning more towards the evoke creatures. I feel my anti-hate numbers are fine, but I'm unsure about the quantities of my other cards.

Sorry everyone i did Dredge poorly this weekend in Columbus.
I was in line to top 8 the IQ, but punted my last two rounds.
Really i punted the last round. The kid had 3 swift spear's by turn two, and I didn't have any response, in game two.
Game three, I just made every play mistake a dredge player can make. On top of missing every dredge for the whole game.
I placed 26.
No need for a deck list. I run pretty much the standard Dredge list, but I run 3 Dread Return.
By the way 1 Cage, and two priests are pretty impossible to beat.
I lost to Blue/Red delver 8th round.
And some good variation of The Rock, in the 7th.

I still run Chain of Vapor in my sideboard. I just find its the easiest to cast, and I only need the hate to be off the table for one turn, usually anyway, because I'm so combo.
Also, has anyone ever sided in Griselbrand? I can't seem to find why it takes a place in my sideboard.
And my 1 of Dakmor Salvage in the SB was as awesome as I had planned. It's an easy way around Thalia. Because Thalia players love to Waste Land the few lands I have anyway.

Can you post the sideboard at least?
I've been playing the straight version of the deck, and the combo in the sideboard with 3 dread return, 2 griselbrand and 1 flame-kin. I've been doing well so far, but I think the rest of the sideboard still some improvements, like your 01-of land to fight thalia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iamfrightenedtoo

Sorry everyone i did Dredge poorly this weekend in Columbus.
snip

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Awww, you sound like you need a hug. Cheer up, you've learned and will be better next time! :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mextremartini

Can you post the sideboard at least?
I've been playing the straight version of the deck, and the combo in the sideboard with 3 dread return, 2 griselbrand and 1 flame-kin. I've been doing well so far, but I think the rest of the sideboard still some improvements, like your 01-of land to fight thalia.

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Side board is pretty straight forward.
3 Firestorm
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Leyline of The Void
1 Ashen Rider
1 ichorid
1 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Dakmor Salvage

I've been playing Dredge for a while now, I've never once cast a Firestorm.
I was on tilt pretty much all day. Round two, game three i mulled to 5, and kept 1 city of Brass, 1 Faithless looting, 1 Lion's Eye Diamond, 2 Golgari Grave Troll. I almost threw it back because I didn't actually believe it.
My opponent asked if that's what I was presenting. I said yes.
He called a judge, because he thought I only had 59 cards in my deck, because there was a Cabal Therapy laying on my deck box.
My opponent grabbed my deck and my hand and counted my deck by peeling off the top card of my library and laying the next card off on top reversing the order of my deck, then he shuffled.
He counted 60 twice, and counted my side board once with 14 cards, plus my sided out Cabal Therapy.
He couldn't believe i sided out Cabal Therapy.
I did. And I'm not ashamed of it. I personally hate Cabal Therapy, and decided game three to just combo or lose.
So I was then forced to draw a new 5 cards. Which enraged me. The judge was okay with me presenting a 5 card mulligan, and then having my opponent shuffle everything for no reason.
My new 5 was 1 Cephalid colosseum, 1 Putrid imp, and 3 black dredgers.
I rage kept the hand.
On his second turn he flopped 10 goblins on the board, I pulled a city and played an imp, pass. His third turn he attacked and put me to 9,
EOT i discarded Stinkweed Imp.
Untap. Upkeep. Dredge.
Hit a Narcomoeba, And a Golgari Grave Troll.
Discarded the rest of my hand.
Used Colosseum.
Eventually attacked him with 12 zombies that turn.
And even though I won, in pretty hilarious and lucky fashion, I never quite got over the initial stupidness.

So far Fate Reforged brought nothing for us and nothing against us. I mean, some cards do help other decks, but at least no more hate.

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Originally Posted by iamfrightenedtoo

Side board is pretty straight forward.
3 Firestorm
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Leyline of The Void
1 Ashen Rider
1 ichorid
1 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Dakmor Salvage

I've been playing Dredge for a while now, I've never once cast a Firestorm.
I was on tilt pretty much all day. Round two, game three i mulled to 5, and kept 1 city of Brass, 1 Faithless looting, 1 Lion's Eye Diamond, 2 Golgari Grave Troll. I almost threw it back because I didn't actually believe it.
My opponent asked if that's what I was presenting. I said yes.
He called a judge, because he thought I only had 59 cards in my deck, because there was a Cabal Therapy laying on my deck box.
My opponent grabbed my deck and my hand and counted my deck by peeling off the top card of my library and laying the next card off on top reversing the order of my deck, then he shuffled.
He counted 60 twice, and counted my side board once with 14 cards, plus my sided out Cabal Therapy.
He couldn't believe i sided out Cabal Therapy.
I did. And I'm not ashamed of it. I personally hate Cabal Therapy, and decided game three to just combo or lose.
So I was then forced to draw a new 5 cards. Which enraged me. The judge was okay with me presenting a 5 card mulligan, and then having my opponent shuffle everything for no reason.
My new 5 was 1 Cephalid colosseum, 1 Putrid imp, and 3 black dredgers.
I rage kept the hand.
On his second turn he flopped 10 goblins on the board, I pulled a city and played an imp, pass. His third turn he attacked and put me to 9,
EOT i discarded Stinkweed Imp.
Untap. Upkeep. Dredge.
Hit a Narcomoeba, And a Golgari Grave Troll.
Discarded the rest of my hand.
Used Colosseum.
Eventually attacked him with 12 zombies that turn.
And even though I won, in pretty hilarious and lucky fashion, I never quite got over the initial stupidness.

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Nice comeback.

I can't imagine how you can play dredge for so long and have never cast Firestorm. I would always keep at least 2-4 copies in the sideboard for Delver/DnT/Other decks that run creatures we care about killing like DRS, S. Ooze, Thalia etc. It has won me games countless times, most gloriously when an opponent went T1 DRS, I went Gold land, go. He goes sacland, removes it with DRS, casts another DRS and scavenging ooze with a big smile on his face like "DEAL WITH THIS". I eot Tapped my gold land, discarded 4 cards and nuked his board plus charred his face just for fun. He sat looking at the card, reading it over and over, called a judge over to make sure it was real, then scooped. Against delver it cleans up their fast start, and more importantly its an uncounterable discard outlet. Even if they force/daze it the cards still get discarded, and the dredge engine can begin. At one mana it is also very good at removing Thalia on their EOT, Stoneforge before they can cheat in Batterskull and the new mage from the commander deck that I can't remember her name.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iamfrightenedtoo

Side board is pretty straight forward.
3 Firestorm
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Leyline of The Void
1 Ashen Rider
1 ichorid
1 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Dakmor Salvage

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Are 3 Leyline of the Void enough? I've been changing my mind between this and faerie macabre. However, when should I sideboard those 3 cards in? Only against dredge and reanimator?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iamfrightenedtoo

And my 1 of Dakmor Salvage in the SB was as awesome as I had planned. It's an easy way around Thalia. Because Thalia players love to Waste Land the few lands I have anyway.

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I run a single Dakmor Salvage from the side too > it's saved my arse on quite a few occasions, but I mainly ran it to support Abrupt Decay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mextremartini

Are 3 Leyline of the Void enough? I've been changing my mind between this and faerie macabre. However, when should I sideboard those 3 cards in? Only against dredge and reanimator?

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Yeah I've been playing with 3 Faerie Macabre in the side for a while given it's synergy with Icky, and the fact that mulling for Leyline can kill our chances of winning on occasion, given we can't actually cast it. That said, Leyline does have the synergy with Bridges....
FYI, I have used Faerie in the past to protect myself from extraction.
I side in Faerie's whenever I fear graveyard shenanigans or combo stuff that can dominate from the grave.