What about Waterfront Bouncer in the side? He's a Merfolk now too, and he seems good against Iona and most creature-heavy decks. He dies to like all removal though, but still seems good. On paper, that is.
Has anyone tried him out?
Printable View
What about Waterfront Bouncer in the side? He's a Merfolk now too, and he seems good against Iona and most creature-heavy decks. He dies to like all removal though, but still seems good. On paper, that is.
Has anyone tried him out?
I think all the cards mentioned here are a bad idea. (spell bomb, bouncer etc) You don't beat reanimator by bouncing their creature, you win by racing and graveyard hate. A good reanimator player shouldn't be getting Iona, Inkwell is a way better choice. This is another reason why the white splash is superior to mono blue. You should already have echoing truth to bounce
Why run cards like bouncer/bomb for a certain 1 matchup when you can run more graveyard hate? Almost every deck uses the graveyard, seems way better to up the yard hate. Lands and loam are pretty heavy in my meta, I would rather have some fairie macabre (whatever) in my sb then the cards mentioned. Can't be countered, seems pretty good to me. Most graveyard decks are hurt pretty bad by removing certain cards. (loam, ichorid, Iona etc) removing the whole graveyard isn't always needed
Do you really think they are going to get Iona when they see/have seen the mentioned cards?
Well I also like Llawan for mirror (yes I know she's not perfect, but I just can see not having anything in the SB for this matchup), and Crypts/Relic for graveyard stuff.
Btw, why does no one use Cryptic Command??? It really puzzles me. It counters a spell and can tap a whole army of pro blue goblins or bushwacked hasters...
Also, I guess another question is how important is Back to Basics and Hurkyl's Recall?
you should have jitte and echoing truth for the mirror. Empress is way to narrow and you need slots for your bad matchups.
I would think the 4 mana (with 3 islands) being the main reason why cryptic command isn't used. Also that is really isn't that good
Back to the basics is good if you are playing vs lands and hurkyl's recall isn't important at all
I've also seen him sided in against decks running PTE in the sideboard and STP in the main (basically a deck with 5+ targeted removal). Is this viable too? In my testing I liked him somewhat, though I admit he appears at first to be very underwhelming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgatory
so your plan is to sb in waterfront bouncer vs swords/path? Then you are going to 2 for 1 yourself?
Why not just use Kira, no funny tricks or mana needed?
Freakin' Jitte. I suppose Zoo has Jitte for the mirror, but as much as I hate Jitte as a Zoo sb card, I am actually siding it in now. I'm at the point now where I board in Jitte against a variety of opponents as a sorcery speed shatter. I am tired of seeing it across from me, and it is only going to get worse as people figure out how stupid good Stoneforge Mystic is. It feels like Kamigawa Standard.
Blazing Archon is the card that they're reanimating. Iona if it's early enough, but almost never Inkwell.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlopeeJ
Waterfront Bouncer is EXTREMELY effective against Reanimator, even getting past Iona if you have a vial.
Bouncer is really good. It was great against Reanimator in the past and still pulls it's weight now. I'm running 2 in my SB now and I've been happy thus far.
Bouncer does look good, but sadly not yet on MTGO, so i have been trying to find something along those lines. Proactive seems better to me against Iona-does not need vial and Animator only has bounce for duders- while experimenting with Seasinger, Dominating Licid, Thalakos deceiver and Sowers(not at all proactive) has lead to the Licid being my best bet so far.
What helps in the Mirror, I have tried Selkie,Sygg Cutthroat-to replace unreliable Standstill- and Thrasher? Jitte is always good and have even splashed Goyfs, but feel there could be better creatures in mirror?
Quote:
Originally Posted by troopatroop
Bouncer is okay at best, esp if you are running 2 in your sb. What are the chances of you even drawing it. Not to mention it eats up sb slots. If they are getting Blazing Archon vs mono blue then that is even more reason not to run bouncer. Echoing truth is much better and actually has uses vs other matchups. (3 truth should be maindeck for mono blue) If they are not getting shroud creatures then echoing truth is just fine. Or you can have the white splash for swords, bring in echoing truth and graveyard hate. Reanimator isn't so good then
As I mentioned you beat Reanimator just like any other graveyard deck, not with sub par cards like bouncer
but I don't see cryptic as a bad card. I would never put in the MB when you have to have earlier counterspells, but I think it is a pretty good SB card to tap down armies of Zoo/GobsQuote:
Originally Posted by SlopeeJ
I would rather run propaganda against these decks. You have no assurance you'll even get to 3 islands + 1 other land against these decks, and even if you do tapping their creatures for 1 turn and drawing a card while spending all of your mana does virtually nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut056
but then these decks will easily be able to pay the 2 mana for a creature to attack. I'm not disagreeing, but I don't think it is as bad as everyone thinks it is. I would rather run it than submerge where they can just recast the spell and I'm left in the same board position. idk...i guess i need to try it out
Submerge can be played roughly 60% of the time in response to a fetch land, killing a creature. Sometimes you get to chain Submerges, completely ruining the tempo of the Zoo player depending on when you get them. Propaganda limits the Zoo player to attacking with 1 or at most 2 creatures, effectively 2/3ing or 1/2ing their damage for the rest of the game, and making them choose between developing board position or trying to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut056
Cryptic Command doesn't further board position, cost a reasonable amount, or even reduce that much damage compared to it's mana cost.
yea you def need to try it out. Merfolk wants to tap out every turn to play creatures and that is why submerge is awesome. Anyone who says submerge is not great either isn't plaing Merfolk right or hasn't tested submerge. Submerge puts the creature on top of its owners library so even if it isn't in response to a fetch it is time walking them. If you submerge at the end of their turn, their goyf can't attack for 2 turns while you are swining in with fish. Nothing better then tapping out playing fish then using free cards. Command is bad, you wil never have enough mana for it and it doesn't even really do anything that relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut056
Paying 2 for the creatures to attack is the point of propaganda. 1 they usually can't play much else because of the mana cost (esp early game) and 2 goblins for example can't swing with a whole army.
Submerge is a 4 of in the sb for every Merfolk deck
Unified Will 1u
Instant Uncommon
Counter target spell if you control more creatures than that spell's controller.
Any interest in this?
Seems pretty horrible, doesn't it? Force of Will and Daze are beneficial because they don't require open mana. It doesn't replace the function of Stifle at all. Therefore the only spell it may vie with is a sideboard Spell Pierce, which is probably better considering Merfolk's typical mana denial package of Stifle/Wasteland. Remember, it requires having more creatures, so even if you have equal it doesn't work. Also, it is not part of the casting condition/ability to cast, it is part of the resolution, so your opponent at least has an opportunity to nullify the counter effect by removing some of your creatures. I imagine a scenario of you have three creatures, your opponent has two, you cast Unified Will and they respond with removal on one of your creatures. Meh. I'm often wrong about predictions, but reasoning through this, it seems lackluster to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath_Of_Houlding
Possibly as an extra SB counter against combo.
But Spell Pierce is better approximately all of the time.
... lol? Are you guys just trying to be politically correct, or do you not see that unified will is retarded? It's not like: oh, maybe it's good in some corner cases. It's always bad, because there's counterspell and mana leak, which haven't even made your lists.