I believe the leyline of sanctity bear might be better. Shuts off tendrils, targeted discard and burn.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone2016
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I believe the leyline of sanctity bear might be better. Shuts off tendrils, targeted discard and burn.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone2016
Shuts off liliana too.Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
I have been fish bowling with bug pod and I feel like it's got too many 2cc, I cut phantasmal image for a third AD, so the curve wasn't effected. And I am liking the look now. What do u guys think?
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I think Phantasmal Image is really, really, really good. Like, image is a necessary piece of glue from the 1 drops. Doubling Thragtusk, Glen Elendra, et al. is a very, very good 1->2 effect in the deck. You're pushing incremental battles with one drops to your 5 drops or even 6 drops. I think at least one clone effect is really necessary, if you think it's Phyrexian Metamorph or Clone or Image... I think in a deck like this, you really do want one to get the most value out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwas
It's something that's a lot better in practice than in goldfishing because it opens up tons of plays. Example.
Facing D&T. I was ahead by quite a bit (I had some really good cabal therapies), had an Explorer, 2 Baleful Strix's and Viridian Corruptor (and 1 Deed) on board. My opponent had a Pithing Needle naming Deed, Mom, Sword of Fire and Ice and Grafdigger's Cage. I had Man-o'-War and Phantasmal Image in hand (and a Thragtusk and 5 land?). My opponent was at 6 poison and 11 life.
I played Man-o'-War targeting Corruptor. Passed. Replayed Corruptor, and targeted Pithing Needle, played Phantasmal Image, copying Corruptor, targeting SoFI (the Grafdiggers didn't really matter). I had 4 poison on board (weirdly), and was only going to be stopped at that point by a mirran crusader or 2 of 4 Swords to Plowshares left in his deck (his opener was 2 StP, and I had found a second Cabal Therapy after naming Stoneforge Mystic with my first one).
My opponent probably over-boarded a bit with Rest in Peace, Grafdigger's Cage and Pithing Needle.. as he drew into all of them, and the great part about Bug Pod is the creatures that you board in usually don't dilute the gameplan of hitting them for 2 every turn. You're still getting action with the cards you bring in.
True Believer? But....it's not an enchantment.Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
I'll probably stick with either Nether Void or curse of exhaustion (quite a beating when you can rector/tower it out when there are going off) as my storm/elves hate.
Whoa. Didn't actually see the Aegis spoiled. Not shabby.
Yeah: unfortunately it's easily removed, so against 'fair' decks it's a little more than a hurdle. Still: a rector target that can be reasonably hardcast early on isn't shabby at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone2016
Also, another bonus (albeit still temporary): it shuts down Jace 2.0 as a fateseal engine, Karn Liberated as a discard engine, Gitaxian Probe in general ...
I've been playing scapeshift lately and doing well with the deck. It feels a lot more competitive than the punishing fire version (I.E. actually has a real ability to end the game) based on my experiences. This is the list I'm going to be playing this weekend at SCG Detroit, barring any last minute changes. So far I've been pleased with the 75 and slaughter games has been a beast against combo. I noticed a weakness to graveyard decks so I added 2 extirpate in the board. So far it's helped. The scavenging ooze is definitely necessary as it gives you a game one against dredge that you wouldn't otherwise have. The most disappointing card so far has been primeval titan, it's eaten a swords to plowshares every time and doesn't impact the board at all when it comes down as you usually don't have enough mountains in play until you've attacked with it at least twice (which never happens). I haven't seen many people talk about the deck lately in here, it's mostly been pod. Let me know if you have any suggestions.
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Burning Wish
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Thoughtseize
4 Taiga
2 Stomping Ground
3 Badlands
2 Mountain
2 Bayou
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Phyrexian Tower
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Scapeshift
SB: 1 Innocent Blood
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Massacre
Good list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecstatic_Conch
I have replaced phyrexian tower with a lone karakas to better fight S&T, but this is rather a meta call.
I play 3 Huntmasters. The creature package is the same otherwise.
I'm usually playing 3 Cabal Therapy MD and one in the side, because I often find more relevant to wish for a CT rather than a TS.
I play 3 TS & 3 CT main deck in place of your 2 of Abrupt decay, but here again is rather a meta call (more combo.deck in my area so I like the extra discard MD)
2 Abrupt decay MD is a good call against an unknown (wide) field.
I would add a pyroclasm in your side, this card is bonker against tribal strategy & swarm.
I would also replace extirpate with surgical because T1 TS followed by surgical as won me non 0 amount of games against combo ! But I guess it is more a personal preference -> uncounterability or explosivity !
Here is my side:
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Scapeshift
SB: 1 Innocent Blood
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Engineered explosives
SB: 1 Massacre
Hi. I still haven't had the time nor access to any of the cards to build nic fit :( Is anyone here still playing white? If so, do you have reports on Spirit of the Labyrinth? On the surface is still seems better than the new hatebears, just cause sneak and show sucks that way.
Athreos looks good. Very, very good.
I'm still playing Junk. I had SotL as a one of in my deck in Milwaukee. It would have been nice in round 8 but other then that it wouldn't have had much impact. I'll keep it in the main for a little while at least. Not sure about the enchantment creatures yet. If they had a black leyline creature....that would be awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by pfiremc13
I replaced my copy of Phyrexian Tower with another fetch, seeing as getting the right colour of mana really is the achilles heel of this deck. The offchance of getting an insane turn 2 with tower/explorer really isn't worth it in this version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecstatic_Conch
Going into such a wide meta and with the massive popularity of miracles it might be justified to replace the main deck abrupt decays for slaughter games. Having access to 2 slaughter games main and 1 in the sideboard is just brutal against that deck (although usually at my local meta I do play abrupt decays in these flex spots).
Consider replacing the thoughtseize for another thragtusk or huntmaster, as your creature count seems fairly low at the moment and these two value town creatures are of a higher impact that a singeton thoughtseize.
Apart from that, like Ralf said consider replacing the extirpates for surgical extractions (the no-mana investment does really outweigh the near uncounterability). I also second that pyroclasm.
Have fun crushing fair decks at the open! ;)
Thinking bout utilizing a singleton Cunning Wish in place of Diabolic Intent. How does this look for such a sideboard?
2 Sakura Tribe Elder
2 Pithing Needle
3 Duress
3 Surgical
1 Trickbind
1 Krosan Grip
1 Golgari Charm
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Echoing Truth
Ok...let me know how sotl does.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone2016
Honestly, I don't really care that much about graveyard decks post-side except for the surgical extractions (which help against other decks as well obviously). Why do you think a lotv bear would help us when we already want des and scooze?
What do you think about athreos?
Interesting pod deck on camera.
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Missed it :( What was happening?
EDIT: Just watching the replay. Pretty sloppy play on both sides.
Yea - that botched CB trigger was pretty rough. I think the intent was: trigger cb, activate top flip, resolve first part of top and draw, trigger/resolve miracle, resolve cb trigger, finish resolving top flip and replace top on the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp2293
Nothing resolves in between drawing a card and putting the top on your library. They are part of the same ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by anwei
Was that for the DRS resolution?
Hey guys, I'm brand new to Nic Fit (I've been playing burn since I got into Legacy a few months back), and I'm trying to do writeups of events I play just to sort of track and better focus my learning the deck. I posted it on my local forum but figured I'd cross-post it here and see if you guys had any thoughts. I'd definitely appreciate any comments/criticism on plays I made and/or how to improve upon these writeups!
Attempt #1: Pat's Games 4/19/14~10 people
Ran a list that looked something like this:
2 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
Sideboard (Note that the SB was still mostly stuff I threw together at the last minute)
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Slaughter Games
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Blood Moon
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Innocent Blood
Here's how it went:
Round 1 vs Jason w/ Esper Deathblade
Game 1: He plays an Underground Sea and a Deathrite Shaman, I Cabal Therapy and hit one Brainstorm, planning to play Veteran Explorer on my second turn and sac it to CT, but it gets exiled by DRS. That puts me behind and he ends up getting way out ahead on the board, landing a Jace the Mindsculptor that I can't find a way to deal with (I don't get the Punishing Fire-Grove of the Burnwillows engine online), and manages to get out a Truename Nemesis and I think a Batterskull or perhaps a Umezawa's Jitte. I land a Pernicious Deed and wipe the board (except for Jace), and manage to cast Primeval Titan, who promptly ate a Swords to Plowshares. With that, Jace continues to fateseal me until he ults and wins the game.
I can't really remember what I boarded in or out, but I know I brought in Slaughtergames and REB
Game 2: I mull to 5 and keep an iffy hand in an attempt to have some cards in hand. I land a Veteran Explorer to gets Swords to Plowshares'd and then I land another who managed to swing for like 5 damage over a few turns of do-nothing grindiness. This all sort of builds to a climactic moment where I cast Thragtusk into a Force of Will and stumble a bit (note that Rest in Peace was in play, hosing my Eternal Witness rescue party). I somehow know he has a Batterskull in hand (I think he had just stoneforged it into his hand?) and make what feels like a misplay:
I'm without a red source and spin Sensei's Divining Top, seeing: Slaughtergames, Grove of the Burnwillows, Verdant Catacombs. I set them back Grove, Slaughtergames, Catacombs, and draw Grove for the turn. With that in mind, I then could have drawn a card with Sensei's Divining Top to get (and cast) Slaughtergames naming Batterskull. Jace The Mindsculptor would then have, of course, fatesealed the top away, but I don't feel I have a great answer to Batterskull, and when he ended up resolving it on his next turn, things got bad and I wasn't able to draw into any answers.
Matches: 0-1, Games: 0-2
Round 2 vs Ryan w/ ???
Round two I play against Ryan with some kind of crazy Charge Counters shenanigans combo deck? We only play one game and I don't really do anything because I couldn't draw into an answer for Ensnaring Bridge, before he took like 10 turns in a row and ulted Tezzeret the Seeker and attacked me for 25.
Matches: 0-2, Games: 0-3
Round 3 vs Sarah Lynn w/ American Delver/Stoneblade/Something?
I had sort of a headache after round 2 so my memory here is pretty iffy and my notes aren't all that helpful, but we'll see what I can do
Game 1: She resolves a Batterskull pretty quickly and I manage to wipe the board with Pernicious Deed (I think?). She follows up not long after with a Truename Nemesis equipped with Umezawa's Jitte, who closes things out pretty quickly.
-1 Sensei's Divining Top
-2 Thoughtseize
+1 Viridian Shaman
+2 Golgari Charm
Game 2 I mull into a meh hand again, and land a T1 Veteran Explorer, who gets Swords to Plowshares'd immediately. This puts me behind again, and she manages to get way out in front on the board, with something like a Stoneforge Mystic withUmezawa's Jitte a Truename Nemesis and a Delver of Secrets. I draw a Pernicious Deed and wipe the board which buys me a little bit of time. We go back and forth on topdecks, she plays a delver, I golgari charm it, etc. I cast a Cabal Therapy naming Brainstorm, and see a Batterskull, Sword of Feast and Famine, and a Lightning Bolt. I have a Viridian Shaman in hand and panic a bit. So I play it (with no artifacts on board to destroy) and sac it to Cabal Therapy to take out the skull. She finally plays a Stoneforge Mystic and lands a Sword of Feast and Famine and I make a sort of lame play of waiting until AFTER she equipped it to cast Punishing Fire, which of course did nothing (should have played it in response to equipping). The sworded Stoneforge took me down to 6, then 3, then I died to a bolt.
Matches: 0-3, Games: 0-5--After that, I had a bunch of research to take care of for a paper so I dropped.
So, not my best showing, but I didn't really expect it to be, given that these were my first 5 games with the deck.
As far as what I could learn, it seems like I really need to pay attention to what hands are keepable and not, and how to sideboard different matchups. There were some sloppy plays for sure, and I think I need to work on getting into a more "control"-y mindset, and maybe focus a little less on playing proactively like I did with Burn? Wasting the Viridian Shaman was a pretty lame play. It seems like the point of strength in control is to be responding to things, but I guess I worry a bit about being a control deck with no counters? Maybe the way to go is to focus on removal and hand control until you know you can get your finishers through?
What worked:
-Pernicious Deed was definitely the all-star of the day, and ultimately helped me stabilize a bunch of times
-Sensei's Divining Top, when I had it, was pretty sweet. Feels a little awkward drawing more than one, but perhaps having multiples in play isn't the worst thing? (some degree of insurance?)
What didn't work:
-I feel like once I stabilized by wiping the board, I wasn't ever really able to land any kind of meaningful finisher? Maybe that's just bad luck with Primeval Titan and Thragtusk getting Swords'd or Forced, and maybe some bad luck in not drawing them (or Green Sun's Zenith when I needed them? Kessig Wolf Run could definitely find a place in the MB, but I'm not really sure what I'd cut for it.
-Veteran Explorer getting exiled a bunch of times was a total pain, but I guess that's just going to happen sometimes? Leading with a Cabal Therapy feels better, but for some reason I just hardly ever drew them?
-I hate Batterskull
Overall though, it seems like a really fun deck and I'm looking forward to getting some more games in and hopefully figuring this beast out.
I hate Batterskull as well ^_^, especially in Death and Taxes where Veteran Explorer gives them enough mana to reliable cast it and "protect" it. My advice against this would be to run Wickerbough Elder or another GSZ target with a Naturalize activated ability WITHOUT a tap cost. That way, you can destroy the token, GSZ for the Elder, and from there play it by ear (if they don't bounce the Skull in response to the GSZ, you can activate the ability in response to that, and if they do, you can potentially followup with Liliana 2.0/Therapy).Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealQuin
Veteran Explorer is definitely one of the most crucial--and vulnerable--aspects of Nic Fit. Just gonna happen sometimes when you're just not gonna set one off because of bounce or exile effects. Definitely run at least 2 Sakura Tribe Elder in your 75 though: definitely useful against Swords to Plowshares or even Batterskull (block, sacrifice before damage is dealt: no damage so no lifelink).
Anyhow, from my experience, non-Scapewish Nic Fit is a special kind of control: our most powerful control elements (Therapy, GSZ and Deed) are fairly proactive, but powerful nonetheless. We also do not close out a game easily: instead, we frequently switch from the control role to the beatdown role and attempt to decrement the opponent's life total gradually (hence why Batterskull is the devil) before returning to the control role. Can't offer much more advice than that, as I'm still attempting to learn the various matchups myself.
Sylvan Ranger is also an option as a 2 drop to ramp (of sorts)Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
Non-white Pod decks now have their own Orzhov Pontiff. Look up Doomwake Giant!
5 mana is a lot, but gives you the potential to "go off" with recurring nightmare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
Just an update. Played with Thassa, and pulled her out about 4 times in about 20 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by tadiou
Card is absolutely nuts in the grindy matches. It feels analogous to playing Sylvan Library a bit in the deck without the raw CA. Her unblockable ability was surprisingly relevant in the stalled boards, especially vs Death and Taxes. In matches that went on forever, the amount of gas she provided was ridiculous, although I can say I think I turned her on for approximately 2 turns. I did honestly forget that Sower taking a Baleful Strix does provide me 3 devotion. I do happen to play against a lot of fair decks, and in those matchups it's a hard to deal with card that provides a ton of value for 2U.
Doomwake Giant actually seems totally reasonable in the 5 drop slot in certain metas. Having a repeatable, onesided golgari charm just seems ridiculous. 5 mana isn't "a lot". I mean, it's a 5 drop, it's probably less valued in pod decks... but provides decent synergy with deed allowing you to get a 2-for-1 value in long games when you're stretched for removal.
Considering the matchups where it would be primarily used (D&T, Elves, Decks with True-Name Nemesis):Quote:
Originally Posted by tadiou
D&T plays ports and wastelands
Elves is a combo deck that can kill turn 3
Many True-name decks are tempo decks with some amount of stifle/wasteland/daze
The only true-name decks where I wouldn't consider 5 a lot are the versions of esper stoneblade running true-name. I'm not saying the card is bad, I'd definitely try it out, but at the same time, Noxious Ghoul already existed and no one was playing that (I realize this card is better, I'm just saying).
Pod. That's pretty much where it's value lies. Most 5 drops that don't provide more value in non-pod lists won't make the cut anyway, but in pod lists, your synergy is crucial. It's also a 4/6 body. That's non-negligible as well out of 5 drops.
I don't think it's wrong to have enough methods to deal with TNN... but you're right, against Elves, it's pretty bad unless you can get to 5 mana (highly unlikely), but that's not your vector of attack against Elves anyway. But against D&T, it's durdle vs durdle. You're going to find 5ish lands or a Pod. Or both. Vs TNN, you're going to eventually outvalue their creatures if you're able to get the game going long enough, more value can't hurt. I don't know if it's necessarily where I want to be in regards to TNN, but it's something that's interesting.
The difference between Noxious Ghoul & Doomwake is that there's the enchantment sub-theme to gather more value. You're able to massacre occasionally through it. I think it'd be an upgrade here enough to consider actually playing. But yeah, I think it's interesting, but maybe not enough to warrant a spot.
Thanks for all the advice! The back and forth beatdown/control role sounds like a pretty good way to describe the deck!Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
I think Wickerbough Elder would definitely help my game out against my super stoneforge-y meta, although I'm not really sure what to cut for him? I'm at 4-of Top and Punishing fire, and I think I could afford to make both of those 3-of's which opens up 2 slots to potentially be used for Wickerbough?
I hadn't really looked at Sakura Tribe Elder until you mentioned him and he looks pretty great for the deck! I'm having a little trouble figuring out where he fits in, though? I know the Scapewish build runs him in addition to 4x Explorer, but in the Punishing build is he more of a SB card to be brought in after seeing Swords to Plowshares, etc?
A few other questions:
-Does anybody stream this deck or are there any good videos? I'm curious to see some experienced people play it
-What makes for a keepable hand in Nic Fit? Therapy/Explorer?
-What does Nic Fit want to do to get around GY hate? Just Abrupt Decay RiP, etc?
-At the moment I'm running maybe 3 finishers--Primeval Titan, Thrun, Thragtusk, and I've had a lot of trouble with them getting countered/etc and then not drawing my others or GSZ's to tutor for them--Could the answer be to run another finisher or two? Specifically up Primeval Titan to a 2-of. Or perhaps add a Kessig Wolf Run?
Noxious Ghoul is a 3/3 for 3BB that -1/-1 all creatures. Doomwake is a 4/6 fir 4B that -1/-1 your opponent's board with added benefits with Recurring Nightmare.
@TheRealQuin
This is the Punishing fire list I have been playing for the last 6 months. It has been doing pretty well.
4 Grove of the burn willows
2 bayou
1 badlands
1 taiga
3 wooded foothills
3 verdant catacombs
3 swamp
2 forest
1 mountain
1 phyrexian tower
1 kessig wolf run
4 veteran explorer
1 scavenging ooze
2 eternal witness
1 huntmaster of the fells
1 thrun the last troll
1 thragtusk
1 primeval titan
4 green sun's zenith
3 sensei's diving top
3 liliana of the veil
2 thoughtseize
4 cabal therapy
4 punishing fire
3 pernicious deed
1 garruk, primal hunter
3 abrupt decay
my sideboard changes, but as always it is really meta dependent. I play at the same place each week so I know what I am up against
2 surgical extraction
2 slaughter games
4 red elemental blast
2 golgari charm
1 abrupt decay
2 duress
2 blood moon
The blood moons are my method of dealing with all the lands players we seem to have. I played a 4 rounder last night and played patriot, u/w back to basic stone blade and lands 2 times for a 3-1 record. lost to one of the lands players. I also bring them in against delver decks as an additional bomb thats cheaper than smth like garruk or prime time.
Concerning your list - I love volrath stronghold. one of my favorite cards. but it really isnt needed in this type of list. its also made worse by possible grave hate post board. prime time into wolf run is probably better and would solve the 'issue' you say you have with closing games. id also run a garruk, either flip or primal over a second copy of prime time. you already have 4 gsz so you shouldnt need to run that many big guys. and landing garruk against control is usualy enough. especially if you have wolf run as well.
Thanks! That looks like a pretty great list--I'll sleeve up a Wolf Run and put Garruk Relentless in the MB and see how that goes tonight!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
My main question would be how do you go about dealing with Batterskull? (my meta is stoneforge-crazy) A few people have recommended Wickerbough Elder or Acidic Slime, but I'm less sure about them.
I also think you're right and that it would be a little reactionary of me to start swapping things out for more Primeval Titans--4 GSZ should have me covered. I think I just got some bad draws on my first outing.
Mine too.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealQuin
There's 2 ways to deal with Batterskull. 1) Hold your therapies (and/or flashbacks) until they play SFM. 2) Once Batterskull is in play. Use Acidic Slime. Wickerbough Elder is "okay" but, like Qasali Pridemage, requires activation cost. So you're essentially paying 6 mana when an Acidic Slime would get you the same sort of effect & game vs troublesome lands as well (assuming that you're indeed GSZing for either or). Basically, your best weapon vs Batterskull is to force them to discard it. Now, granted if it's late in the game, it gets difficult. But, when you're including a Wolf Run, you actually get a little joy from having a deathtouch trample +x/0 creature on the loose.
@ Batterskull question -
I have never found batterskull a problem EXCEPT when it gets equipped to a TNN. SFM should never live to untap against a deck with 4 fire, 3 decay, 3 deed and 3 lily. if she does its ok because by that time its turn 4 or 5 and you should be able to assert control with things like deed and fires. obviously therapy and in my version TS also help as a way to get it from the hand. Thrun is also a way to block forever as most SFM do not have a way to actually get him off the board.
I'd recommend playing some more games against SFM -> Bskull because i am sure you will see that if thats the way the game goes you are heavily favored.
@ Garruk-flip
I like him and was running him for a few months but ended up replacing with PH. My thoughts -
- Garruk is boltable turn he comes down and makes a token (not good value)
- He does not kill many things we already have problems killing
- 2/2 and 1/1 dtouch wolves are worse than 3/3's
- Decayable after flipping
+ way to kill explorer in a pinch
+ 1 mana cheaper, and only 1 green means less problems with playing it at exactly 4 mana as opposed to 3 green out of 5
+ great synergy at tutoring creatures up
after all that i decided that the times i cast garruk i usually could/would be casting PH and PH is just a lot better, actual CA much quicker and 3/3 offers up a lot more to offer rather than spamming 2/2s.
Just some thoughts but i'd like to hear how you like flip garruk and let me know if there is situations when he is played where one or other would be the best call as i could be converted back as i do love me some play witness sac witness go and get another witness to chain all of your bombs out of your deck.
BTW, seems most ppl posting lately have been on pod lists. Is this due to the sideboard that blue pod offers or that the main deck is better? I feel like pod is slightly worse against fair decks than the fires list but you get an improved combo game? or is it that pfire is not what you want to be doing in this meta???
It's different. I think. It, like pretty much every nic fit list, is good against fair decks, because your fair plays are better than theirs usually. There's a lot of action with the Blue Pod decks (well, just all of the Pod decks), where you're able to manouever a lot of situations that I think both the Scapeshift/Punishing lists wouldn't be able to get out of, and to be fair, won't get into sometimes. The exchange is a much higher skill cap and precognition to how you're going to win the game. There's a brutal amount of scenarios to be had and combinations to get that you don't just get with using GSZ because Pod, like Pod does, rolls a cascading decision tree. I think it plays less the control deck than any previous incarnations of Nic Fit, but, in turn allows you to be a little more proactive with the board state and roll over decks because of the ridiculous amount of value that it can gain. It snowballs much like Shardless BUG does, but in a fair way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
@ Pod Lists
That seems a fair assessment. In my opinion ( I have not played Pod but I have played Vet decks almost exclusively in legacy for 1.5 years now) I just cannot see what situations I would want to be pod over smth like Pfire. Scapewish seems different as your just trying to combo kill with a beatdown back up (similar to elves). I was more trying to get at what are the differences in matchups.
Nic fit in general is good against fair and a dog to combo. that much is obvious. I am just thinking, say i am heading to an SCG with a nic fit deck, why pod over fire? I think the only real reasons are you want blue SB cards over red (Rebs + games being the biggest red additions) or the idea is that pfire isnt good. If pfire is good then I think that list is far and away a more consistent and powerful deck.
This is nothing against pod, its the version we usually see at scg if we get a match. I am really am just trying to distill down what the pod -> junk -> scapewish -> fire -> bug versions try to do that is different. All these decks change certain matchups slightly worse or better.
Therapy or other discard after Stoneforge is definitely the best way to deal with Batterskull, but if you dont draw into discard and it hits the field, it becomes a lot trickier, especially if they have the mana to protect it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tadiou
I suggested something with an activation cost like Pridemage or Wickerbough because you can GSZ for them and activate the ability in response to them bouncing the Batterskull. If they respond to the GSZ, you can get something else for value and then use Therapy to force them to discard it.
In other news, Thassa has replaced Jace 2.0 in my list... Wallet Sculptor just hasnt been pulling his weight and GodTop is really good.
Pod can also come down early and then just start tutoring things unlike with GSZ which is much worse vs like Spell Pierce or Daze. Also it is less reliant (in a way) on the GYQuote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
ScapeWish is the only variant that can end games quickly with Burning Wish into Scapeshift for the win. Rector probably has the best game versus combo simply because of Nether Void and Moat. Various Pod lists are somewhere in between: they aim to outvalue their opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
As far as classic Nic Fit (including BUG, Junk, Jund, and straight BG), I feel it depends on your meta. Junk has Swords, Vindicate, Sigarda (Flier!), and Pridemage; BUG has Brainstorm and Thassa in the main, and Force of Wills in the side for the combo matchup. Jund has Punishing Fire, Huntmaster/Ravager of the Fells and REBs/Slaughter Games.
Straight has . . . Hymn? I have a feeling straight Nic Fit probably has some untapped potential with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and possibly wasteland ... maybe some sort of Pox+Nic Fit shell?
EDIT: Guess I didn't really answer your question: classic versions all have their perks and quirks in certain matchups. Blue has the best ability to filter their draws with Brainstorm, which in turn enables a greater access to GSZ targets and other 1-2 of spells. I run blue for the consistency, though in certain matchups it definitely becomes grindy as hell. Red, however, has Slaughter Games in addition to Surgical Extraction, which is just brutal against other forms of control (particularly threat-lite ones such as Miracles and other Nic Fit). White . . . I honestly have no idea where this fits.
She's pretty awesome. I think I played her 3 times in 4 rounds last night, and she made the games I was behind closer, and closed out games I was ahead faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
Three Shardless Agents on the board vs DRS, Thassa, Thragtusk and a Baleful Strix? Without Thassa, that game would have gone way longer, with Thassa, it was over in 3 turns. It's a way to break parity without losing power necessarily.
Went 3-1 last night, with my only loss being vs UW Miracles (go figure). Lost to a Karakas-Venser thumping & Jace. One of the meh-parts of the deck is the inability to interact with Jace when necessary. Game 1, I had Thassa out, but wasn't able to land a threat without it being forced or bounced or plowed or whatever. Died to Jace with 2 Deeds on the board. I couldn't die to Angels. Just Jace (or Clique). Game 2, I was actually in the game, sorta. I was being Venser locked out without enough spells to get past Venser. I had deed in play, but a birthing pod, and I figured my best way to get past his Jace & Venser would be to resolve that Glen Elendra (I think I had 10 lands), pod it into Thragtusk and get anti-Jace value. Didn't actually come to pass. Ended up deeding for 4, blowing up his Venser & my pod. Brainstormed mainphase and put back Recurring Nightmares on top and Deed #2 on bottom. And then he played a top next turn and I drew the nightmare, and then he topped, Entreated and crushed me there. Bad brainstorm action. Thassa helps in the grind, but it's so difficult to deal with a resolved Jace.
I dont know why, but Miracles gets a lot more bang for their buck from Jace 2.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by tadiou
Anyhow for Jace, I suggest running Tar Pit if youre on BUG and Timbermare or Thrun if youre on POD (Timbermare can be both removed and countered, but can also provide some etb value and can kill Jace the turn it comes down even after a single+2 activation)
I play BUG pod and run a singleton maelstrom pulse (instead of the third deed), Thrun and creeping tar pit in the main. They are all outs to Jace, but offer additional utility besides.