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So to summarize – how to play against SE+Tiago:
1. Name SE if your therapies resolves.
2. If they cast SE – use your Memory's Journey, Noxious Revival in response to SE targeting your card/cards in graveyard.
So the question is - should you board in Coffin Purge/Purify the Grave against SE+Tiago plan? I mean – should you target your own card in response to SE or let it resolves and wait for the moment when your opponent will target SE with Tiago and then purge/purify SE?
So, isn't it worthy having Nether Shadow on board against SE? Helps DRing as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus
The point is that you don`t need extra effort to fight those decks (burn, elves). In the match against elves I had the chance to include blaze archon and I didn`t... so, I agree with the arguments other people have already presented here... why do we need DR package??? to win a match you are favorable to win already???Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManMax
I used Titan, cause it helps to dredge even deeper when you want to race someone, I used to play Titan with FKZ... than I took out FKZ... (the titan alone gives you the win when it find all therapies you need.
I will be probably defending Faerie instead of Noxious because I lost to Reanimate (and I wouldn`t if I had Faerie).
But the point is that Elesh Norn is the main strategy of Reanimate vs. Dredge. And SE is something we can just play around.
Even If I had found a Chain of Vapor... (he could counter once again)... but anyway great part of the game was already assembled in his favor (drawing, more lands on the table... too much advantage)...
I'm one of the few that have started shaving-off Dread Return, and I think that it's worth noting that the main reason for why I did so was because I quantified that the card decreases the consistency of the deck in the context of providing a sufficient opening hand. I still feel that there are certain match-ups where the card would be able to increase the probability of winning, but the match-ups mentioned (Burn, Elves) are certainly not in the list, as Dredge already has the upper-hand versus those Deck Archetypes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dravus Mallinard
Kind Regards,
jares
I've recently had the same conclusion regarding Faerie Macabre, Chain of Vapor, and even Surgical Extraction. Having access to uncounterable hate (except maybe by Stifle) is key.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dravus Mallinard
Cheers,
jares
It would. 1 out of the three times I cast Purify my opponent(Podeschwa, UBG NicFitish)would have had Snare.Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroYawgmoth
@Gui 1. There is no space for that imo
2. They actually kinda suck without Phantasmagorian.
I find it strange that a deck would not board-out Spell Snare against Dredge. I guess we also have Ancient Grudge and Ray of Revelation, but that seems to be too small a number to be preparing against. I guess that, if it was relevant during your match-up, then it was :tongue:.Quote:
Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus
Kind Regards,
jares
Definitely thought that Unmask was an instant for some reason. lol my mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by jares
I don't like MBT or chalice in our board. I agree with Random here, correct therapies is our best answer to storm. If you are really worried about it, pack some Winds of Change in the board for more speed. The storm match up is really a coin flip. Who goes first and who can go off faster. Usually it seems like it ends up being 50/50 for me.
As far as Reanimator is concerned, I'm winning a surprising number of games via Leyline of the Void game 2, they don't seem to either be prepared for or anticipate it game 2 at all.
I'm not certain about SBing in Faerie Macabre against Surgical Extraction, I understand Faerie Macabre is a useful SB card regardless of Surgical Extraction, but it's much worse than Street Wraith in your opening turns when they target your first Dredger.
I don't think it's that Dread Return is a bad card, but when you consider it requires a strong board presence to cast and it "eats up" space for either Break Through, Faithless Looting, Careful Study, Lion's Eye Diamond or Cephalid Coliseum you just really don't have the space for it. There's no problem the Dread Return + package can resolve that Ancient Grudge and Ray of Revelation can't except for Realm Razor vs Lands.
Do you guys get any value out of Ray of Revelation vs anything but Leyline of the Void?
Edit: I disagree with SBing Winds of Change for more speed vs Storm, the deck is already fast enough, if you're going to dedicate slots to Storm your best choice is MBT because it's the only card that protects you from relying on the coin flip altogether.
From what I've noticed, Reanimator players have a few Echoing Truths in the sideboard, but I rarely see a full set being played. They side it in against our Zombies, though, and not really for Leyline of the Void.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I personally don't dedicate any sideboard slots to combat Surgical Extraction, but the way I see it, having Faerie Macabre as an option for that is good, given that the Faeries are really there as graveyard hate. The fact that it also fuels Ichorid is another bonus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I agree. I find that Dread Return's flashback cost is a dependency that creates even more inconsistencies in the scenarios where things aren't going too well. It's definitely a powerhouse in the scenarios where you're already able to combo-off though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I used to play that card, but I quickly realized that it was just eating up space in my sideboard. I play Nature's Claim as an alternative (and more) to Ray of Revelation, given that the Enchantments that I want to destroy are the ones that prevent me from accessing my graveyard in the first place (including Wheel of Sun and Moon), making the flashback option somewhat out of place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I would tend to agree with you regarding Winds of Change and Mindbreak Trap. I've been looking into this recently, and I've found that, in general, trying to slow combo decks down yields more favorable results than trying to race them - in the same way that other decks try to slow us down via graveyard hate instead of out-racing us. My testing hasn't been too extensive, though, so I wouldn't say that I've gathered anything conclusive at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
Cheers,
jares
Have some of you played often against Hive Mind ??? How were your experiences ??? Any tips despite of therapy (that won me the tournament this weekend) ???
It is rarely a problem. Their combo is tougher and slower to assemble more often than not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dravus Mallinard
They are usually light on countermagic and graveyard hate.
Most of them run 4 Leylines, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
My opponent showed me later he was using 4x extirpateQuote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
A playset of extirpate is the least scary of the hate, especially in a deck that spashes black.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dravus Mallinard
As for leylines in hive mind, that isn't much of a problem either. Hive Mind doesn't disrupt you with duress, wasteland, and/or a counterwall. Bouncing/destroying leyline(should they mull into one) is fairly easy, even more so with cabal therapy. Then the hive mind deck has to assemble their combo!
Hive Mind has fallen off the radar since mental misstep was banned because it can't stop the fundamental first turn anymore. It is a fragile and slow combo that makes a surprise win every now and then,if it lucks out.
Played in my local tourney today with LEDless Dredge (8 Studies, 4 Breakthrough, 4 Ichorids, 0 DR):
Burn ( 2-0)
BUG Control ( 2-0)
Burn ( 2-0)
Punishing Maverick ( i.d. // 0-2)
Both burnplayers did only side in a playset Faerie Macabre, so it wasn't difficult. The BUG player had Cages and Extractions, but Ingot Chewer + Coffin Purge solve.
And against Maverick, well my deck decided to shit on me :S.
I'll take this list to a tournament in two weeks, and I wanna hear some advice.
First of all, I own only 2 Lion's Eye Diamond, and I can't borrow more, because my friend is playing ANT in the same tournament.
This is what I'm planning:
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Tarnished Citadel
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
4 Putrid Imp
3 Firestorm
4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
2 Faithless Looting
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
1 Dread Return
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
1 Darkblast
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void / 4 Faerie Macabre
SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 3 Noxious Revival
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Dread Return
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
If I opt for Faerie Macabre, those Noxious Revival might turn into 3rd Ancient Grudge, 1 Ray of Revelation and another DR target (maybe Realm Razer or Sadistic Hypnotist).
Anything I'm missing? The metagame will be mostly Maverick and Stoneblade, with a few Merfolk and other midrange decks, like Deadguy and Rock. Dredge and Storm might show up in very few numbers, and Reanimator doesn't really exist here. There might be some homebrew, as well, like my friend's Isochron Scepter + Orim's Chant control.dec.
I would suggest maxing-out on the Faitheless Lootings, especially because you're going LEDless. It looks like you're keen on using main deck Firestorms, though, so I'm not really sure of what you can cut other than a couple of those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
How has Noxious Revival performed for you during testing? It sounds like playing Faerie Macabre would be the right choice, given that it will give you more sideboard space (maybe you can place the Firestorms there instead; something like -2 Firestorm, +2 Faitheless Looting, then +2 Firestorm in the sideboard).
Cheers,
jares
You might also want to consider placing the main-deck Dread Return on the sideboard to make more room for Firestorm and Faithless Looting. Personally, I'm slowly-but-surely leaning towards shaving Dread Return from my LEDless list, but that's really a meta choice (or a personal preference) at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by jares
Good luck.
Cheers,
jares