[Deck] Goblins

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Originally Posted by namrufmot

Another question for us to discuss...what is the optimal number of removal spells to play? Pan got 8th place only running 6 - gempalm and pyrokenesis.

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My current removal suite (MD):

4x Gempalm Incinerator
3x Lightning Bolt
2x Stingscourger

I also have (SB):
2x Pyrokinesis
1x Goblin Sharpshooter

There are certain matches where those are better (Elves, Esper Blade etc.) I occasionally run Tarfire over Lighting Bolt, but I've been seeing quite a few Tarmogoyfs locally, so I switched to bolts.

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Originally Posted by Malchar

I've been curious about playing this deck. What do you side in and out against storm?

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Vs. storm:

In - 3x Chalice of the Void, 2x Thorn of Amethyst

Out - 2x Stingscourger, 3x Gempalm Incinerator

Other options include Pyrostatic Pillar and Mindbreak Trap depending on your preference.

The trick is to keep your deck as fast and aggressive as possible in this match up. Stinger and Gempalm are dead 99% of the time, so they're easy cuts. If you run less by way of creature removal, Vial isn't all that stellar in this match-up either. I'd much rather play a Chalice or Lackey on T1 - that at least applies some pressure.

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Originally Posted by Malchar

I've been curious about playing this deck. What do you side in and out against storm?

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Siding out Aether Vial usually works pretty well. It's a little too slow to be consistently useful against Storm, and you don't want too many non-Goblin cards in your deck when you need to put a clock on. I'll also side out Tuktuks or Stingscourgers or other other Utility gobbos if they don't look like they'll do much in a MU.

I ususally side in 4 Chalice, as Chalice @ 0 with Lackey and Wasteland backup is what Goblins needs to get past Storm (and some luck). I'll also sometime side in Surgicals or REBs depending on what kind of Storm I'm playing. Faerie Macabre is also a great tool for fucking with Graveyards of High Tide and TES without being counterable or building their storm count.

Hands with Lackey are pretty killer, as they really allow you to put on the pressure while still playing disruption and Wasting.

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Siding out Aether Vial usually works pretty well. It's a little too slow to be consistently useful against Storm, and you don't want too many non-Goblin cards in your deck when you need to put a clock on. I'll also side out Tuktuks or Stingscourgers or other other Utility gobbos if they don't look like they'll do much in a MU.

I ususally side in 4 Chalice, as Chalice @ 0 with Lackey and Wasteland backup is what Goblins needs to get past Storm (and some luck). I'll also sometime side in Surgicals or REBs depending on what kind of Storm I'm playing. Faerie Macabre is also a great tool for fucking with Graveyards of High Tide and TES without being counterable or building their storm count.

Hands with Lackey are pretty killer, as they really allow you to put on the pressure while still playing disruption and Wasting.

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That seem like a mistake to board out vial. IF you board out vial your wastelands become worse and wasteland is one of your main ways to interact with a combo deck (since vial lets you play threats while you pop wastelands and activate ports if you have em). I would start by boarding out Gempalm incinerators, and siege gangs.

I would not board out Pyrokensis if you have those md (since it is good vs empty the warrens) and consider boarding some in if you have nothing else.

Damn dtb. Pretty sad we got here.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Damn dtb. Pretty sad we got here.

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Uff, and I thought I was the only one to think so...

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Originally Posted by beebles

That seem like a mistake to board out vial. IF you board out vial your wastelands become worse and wasteland is one of your main ways to interact with a combo deck (since vial lets you play threats while you pop wastelands and activate ports if you have em). I would start by boarding out Gempalm incinerators, and siege gangs.

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Versus Storm one pretty much has to mull to Lackey game 2 & 3. Vial isn't going to do anything broken enough in the first 3 turns.

Lackey into Siege-Gang, Chieftain/Piledriver (or into Warchief, Piledriver) are among the easiest ways for the deck to turn 3 kill. I wouldn't board SGC out against Storm.

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Originally Posted by beebles

I would not board out Pyrokensis if you have those md (since it is good vs empty the warrens) and consider boarding some in if you have nothing else.

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Agreed. Stingscourger, Scrapper/Tin-Street, and Gempalm all have less application than Pyrokenesis in this MU.

I'm still a HUGE fan of MDing Chalice - even in favor of Moggs and Stings.

Name a deck where Chalice at 1 isn't doomed? Set another to 2 and it's goodnight...

What the hell. I was searching the thread and now we are here.

Ok. At first I have to read the last pages to know, which topics we have :confused:

Aether vial should probably be sided out next after you've taken out your spot removal. It doesn't do very much unless the opponent is running countermagic. All it does is add mana, and the investment typically won't pay off in time against a combo deck.

I don't even think that wasteland is very effective against most storm decks either. Any player worth his salt will fetch basics in the first few turns and only get a dual if necessary and only on the turn that they go off. I think that one of the best strategies is to maximize early damage with the hope of weakening their ad nauseam.

Well that is a bit shocking to read, I doubt any other forum would be complaining that their deck became a deck to beat, Goblins just keep coming, the card advantage and resilience of the deck is just absurd, the deck made deck to beat because it works. I think it's awesome. >^,^<

Anyhow, I have found some time to test out Krenko and I am now already sold on running a copy, if it gets out and doesn't get answered it's just ridiculous. As far as sideboarding goes, I like cards that are nettable via goblin matron / goblin ringleader, and with enough creatures in the format, I've been keeping tarfire in the sideboard, I like Vexing shusher as well, but it's not really needed when you have caverns, lackeys & vials.

I usually refer to the DTB section when making my sideboard. With Goblins AND Merfolk as DTB, Engineered Plague will start showing up. Sometimes it's better to know your deck is something that wins without everyone else thinking about it.

@Ace: You're right. I think we have expect the Plagues in some sideboards. But the thing is, that we don't have any answers except of beeing faster or playing cards like lords.

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Originally Posted by Pee-Dee-2

@Ace: You're right. I think we have expect the Plagues in some sideboards. But the thing is, that we don't have any answers except of beeing faster or playing cards like lords.

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The answer would be to splash green and play some Grips in SB, also for Moat and Humility, even Sneak Attack would be bashed. It furthermore opens up once more for playing TSH.

As far as removal goes I still prefer 2 Pyrokinesises and 2 MOGG FANATIC to deal with lifelinkers and stuff. General I'm at 8 pieces of removal.

Last but not least I like the idea of playing 4 Chalice MD and cast your creatures and removal around that with Cavern. The only thing that would be shut off is Vial, which I think is fine.
The miracle control MU would decrease but it's already pretty good and you can side that out postboard. Other than that you increase Dredge and StromCombo MU.

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Originally Posted by Pee-Dee-2

@Ace: You're right. I think we have expect the Plagues in some sideboards. But the thing is, that we don't have any answers except of beeing faster or playing cards like lords.

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If you don't want to splash green for enchantment removal, Boartusk Liege is probably the best answer to Engineered Plague. It survives under double plague, effectively canceling one of them out and allows you to play your other goblins again.

On the other hand, if you are expecting a ton of Plagues in your opponent's sideboards in your meta, you would probably be better off playing a non-tribal deck if you have one.

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Originally Posted by BigBopper

Last but not least I like the idea of playing 4 Chalice MD and cast your creatures and removal around that with Cavern. The only thing that would be shut off is Vial, which I think is fine.
The miracle control MU would decrease but it's already pretty good and you can side that out postboard. Other than that you increase Dredge and StromCombo MU.

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Bipbopper I like your thinking. Imagine Zoo's face when you drop a chalice at 1? It might shut off your Vial, but if you have Vial in your opening hand you just drop it then. Chalice MD increases your game 1 chances against a ton of decks. It does leave you kind of short on removal though...

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Originally Posted by namrufmot

Bipbopper I like your thinking. Imagine Zoo's face when you drop a chalice at 1? It might shut off your Vial, but if you have Vial in your opening hand you just drop it then. Chalice MD increases your game 1 chances against a ton of decks. It does leave you kind of short on removal though...

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The problem is 1-drop zoo is rarely seen these days I was rather thinking of MoR, Bolt, Hirach, Delver, StP, Darkblast...
Are you going to test it? I'll make up my mind for a list.
What do you mean, about the removal. You can play Fanatic, Stinger, Pyro and cycle Gempalm. Problematic is just space. But just as during Misstep times there will be a point to fit 6 removal and 4 chalice.

If you go with the "standard" list of gobbos that 99% of people agree on:

4x Gempalm Incinerator
1x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
3x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Ringleader
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
4x Goblin Warchief
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
1x Siege-gang Commander
2x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

4x Aether Vial

22x Lands

That only leaves 4 slots to play with. Some add Moggs, some add Pyrokenesis, some add Tarfire. If you play four Chalice MD your only removal is 4 Gemplams and 2 Stings. Granted you can tutor for them, but is that still enough?

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Originally Posted by namrufmot

4x Gempalm Incinerator
1x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
3x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Ringleader
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
4x Goblin Warchief
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
1x Siege-gang Commander
2x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

4x Aether Vial

22x Lands

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Substitute Prospetor for a Land.
Cut a Stinger, since its tutorable and you're short on romoval, you rather want variety.
Cut Tuktuk, since its crap.
Cut the singelton chieftain, since there is no use withou MWM.

Now you can add 4 chalice and three more removals, although I wouldn't play tarfire, since it's useless with Chalice on the board.
Also instead of 2-3 Ports I would add 2 Ancient Tombs for explosiveness and Chalice @1 turn 1.

Actually I've see this discussion in the merfolk threat a few weeks ago when the new lord was announced. But they dismissed it for deck space reasons. I'll still gonna try this.

And yet we aren't Merfolk... how do we protect the CotV or prevent them from casting Pridemage or GSZ for it?

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Originally Posted by Avatara

And yet we aren't Merfolk... how do we protect the CotV or prevent them from casting Pridemage or GSZ for it?

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Well, if a maverick player spents 3 mana and GSZ on tutoring pridemage and another mana for the sac, that's fine for trading with my chalice. Not imagining what speed he lost during the turns before that answer came.
I can't imagine Maverick answering a chalice...