What match ups is nahiri for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
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What match ups is nahiri for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
All the blacks deck with discard effect and other control with blast effect who can target the Jace wincon.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckado
Hey y’all, long time browser and Legacy enthusiast, first-time poster. I’ve been playing a variant of Stoneblade since Jace and Misty got the ban hammer in Standard, though my experience in tournaments has most been grinding side events at Grand Prix and Opens. Most recently I played my Esper list to 18th of the IQ in Charlotte this past August, finishing 4-2-1 with a loss to Shaheen Soorani and an unintentional draw to a Grixis Delver player I was too nice to call out for slow play (had him dead on board at 1 life the next turn with no outs but he didn’t concede). Regardless, I’m a huge fan of this deck and for every match I’ve played, I’ve spent a dozen hours testing, tuning, or theorizing.
In light of GP SeaTac, the banning of Dig Through Time, and the general trend of everyone hopping on the Shardless train, I thought I’d post my current list and thoughts on the archetype in the format.
*see below reasoning for Deathrites in a “not Deathblade” list
Esper Stoneblade
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
2 Painful Truths
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
1 Council’s Judgment
1 Notion Thief
1 Disenchant
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
2 Meddling Mage
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm
Briefly, I’ll address Deathrite Shaman. I’m of the opinion that Stoneblade decks that play Shaman aren’t automatically reclassified as Deathblade, which is a decidedly more aggressive and committed 4-color deck with some control elements. Shaman is a very useful and powerful utility creature for a control deck, as evidenced by it’s inclusion in Chapin’s Esper Mentor list from SeaTac.
This leads to my general philosophy for this deck and card inclusions: Play the best cards available for each function you need. In a way it’s like the Modern Jund of Legacy, only with more consistency and blue spells. I’ll explain this below:
Creatues: Deathrite Shaman is a workhorse. It’s fast mana for that turn 2 True-Name, it’s graveyard hate, it’s a clock, and it’s even Liliana insurance. Stoneforge seems underwhelming on paper these days, but your opponent still must answer it (or force you to discard) when you play it or they’re just going to lose to Batterskull. True-Name is the best clock for a field of fair decks in my experience because of it’s resilience and color. Lingering Souls and Monastery Mentor were considerations but lower the blue count making Force worse. Finally, Vendilion Clique is always an over-performer. If this wasn’t legendary I’d probably play four and zero True-Name.
Spells: I maxed out on the core pieces of Force, Plow, and Brainstorm for obvious reasons, while also including the full 4 Thoughtseize to be as redundant as possible. Two Ponders help with filtering while Spell Pierce remains my favorite bit of cheap interaction. Jace, the Mind Sculptor is here twice because I want to keep a low curve but still like seeing him in multiples in the longer games. My favorite new tech is Painful Truths, which in my testing is a wicked beating. It’s made even better by the level of card quality in this deck. Shardless decks are using their draw-three to get more Shardless Agents and Baleful Strix, while this deck draws Stoneforge and True-Name.
Lands: I really want to respect the Blood Moon (and Wasteland), so I play the two basics in the list as insurance. No basic Swamp because it really interferes with the core of blue spells and Stoneforge. Plus, if you cast Deathrite off a dual and it gets wasted, you can still make mana with that land. The rest of the base is pretty standard, with the two green duals there to support the green splash from the board. Originally I played an Island as my only basic and had two Wastelands in place of the Plains and Bayou, but I decided I’m not playing a Wasteland game anyway, so I’d rather have more lands to produce colors.
Sideboard Notes:
Part of the reason I love Stoneblade is that even though game one is usually between 40-50% against the field, the sideboard can really stack things in your favor. Every time I win game one, I feel like I’m a favorite to win the match just by the strength of our sideboard and the fact that nothing really hoses the deck.
The green splash of Abrupt Decay and Sylvan Library is there primarily for Miracles and the mirror, taking a note out of Chapin's book. Meddling Mage is good generic hate for combo while also providing a clock. Zealous Persecution is almost always the best card to draw when you board it in, hosing Elves, Death & Taxes, Pyromancer, and even Empty the Warrens. The utility against opposing True-Names is also great. Notion Thief is GG against Shardless almost always. The rest of the board is pretty standard hate for graveyard and combo shenanigans.
So all in all, I love this deck. It has game against virtually everything, and in the hands of a familiar pilot, can usually make a good run in a tournament (I'm looking at you Shaheen and your list from 2012). Any thoughts or criticisms of the list are appreciated, as I’m always looking to tune the list here and there.
I’ll leave with two discussion topics that I’ve been thinking about recently. First, does Council’s Judgment have a place in the main deck anymore? I feel like it was adopted for it’s utility against True-Name and replaced Vindicate, but looking at the current meta I don’t see True-Name as the omnipresent threat that it used to be. What permanents are a threat in game one that we want this in? The 1WW cost is just really extreme for the deck.
Also, how has Nahiri, the Lithomancer performed for those who have tried her? I’ve been meaning to test her for a while but can’t ever decide on a card to cut from the board.
Hi Ajax, i like your last post.
I don't play esper but anyway imho your choices are right.
I don't like the mono-Flusterstorm and the mono-Clique because the combo matchup are not godd with this configuration imho.
I don't think the only 2x Meddling Mage can save you from storming or other combo stuff.
The rest is good imho!
:)
Hi,
This weekend I played my old deck again at the last Belgian Legacy Cup trial. I have been testing a new control list over the last few weeks and wanted to play something else then Miracles again for the day.
There were 42 people attending.
Esper Control
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Marsh Flats
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Lingering Souls
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Notion Thief
SB: 1 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
R1 // ANT: 2-0
G1: I disrupt him enough with T1 Tseize, T3 Snapcaster-> Tseize and Vendilion Clique with FoW backup.
G2: It seems at a moment he is going for it but miscounts and concedes shortly after :(
R2 // Grixis Delver : 2-0
G1: I'm on the play and have Polluted delta,Flooded strand,Marsh flats,Underground Sea, Ponder, Tasigur, Brainstorm. (I know what he's playing btw).
So this game I try to bait some Wasteland from him. I open up with fetch Tundra to play Ponder. And get wasted T1, okay nice..
T2 I play a Underground Sea and he Wastelands me again. T3 I fetch Underground Sea into Tasigur. He tries to FoW it, I FoW back:)
He plays a DRS and 2 turns later a Young Pyromancer and makes 2 tokens with Gitaxian Probe and Ponder and plays a Gurmag Angler (nice turn lol).
I STP the angler and EE for 0 so he has to chump with his Young Pyromancer. I win next turn.
G2: I keep a one lander (Flooded Strand) with Brainstorm,Ponder. I fetch Island and Ponder but he Spell Pierces. He plays a DRS and passes. I try Brainstorm, he Daze's it.
Next turn I cast another Brainstorm, he responds with Vendilion Clique which resolves. Brainstorm is okay and finds me 2 lands with a fetch and I cast Duress. Next turn I EE for one to get DRS. Clique keeps beating me down but I can stabilize playing Council's Judgement with Flusterstorm backup for his counter. Luckily he diddn't have a bolt cause I was at 2 after all of this..
R3 // Elves :2-0
G1: He is on the play and plays a DRS. I cast a STP on DRS. T2 he plays a Quirion Ranger bounces Forest and another DRS. T2 I thoughtseize away his NO I think. He plays a Wirewood Symbiote and Visionary. I EE for 1 to get Symbiote and Quirion (He bounces DRS). Next turn he deploys his whole hand kinda but I play Supreme Verdict and take over with a Jace after.
G2: He starts with Bayou into DRS. I go Underground Sea and Tseize him and see a hand of Blood Moon,Blood Moon, Craterhoof, Cradle, Forest, Quirion. I take the Quirion. Next turn I STP the DRS and make sure he never gets enough mana to really do anything good. He gets me down to 2 life though, before I race him with V.Clique, Meddling Mage and Ethersworn Canonist.
R4 // Infect :2-1
G1: He is on the play and goes T1 Glistener Elf which I STP. He ponders and plays another one, which gets STP"ed again. T3 another one which I EE for one. Then he plays a Blighted Agent that gets Snapcaster STP"ed and his Inkmoth gets trumped by Lingering Souls.
G2: We trade some resources and eventually he gets a Glistener Elf with a Pendelhaven and gets me to 2 Poison. I'm tapped out at a point and have FoW+pitch, Snapcaster and souls in GY. He has 2 cards in hand and Brainstorms. Here I make a big mistake by saying ok too soon and let Brainstorm resolve. His brainstorm finds him Become Immense and Spell Pierce for my FoW.
G3: I destroy some creatures and find a Darkblast around T5. He tries his best to fight back but eventually I grind him out (dredging over 7 times^^).
R5 // ID
R6 // ID
QF // Infect: 2-1
This is the same guy I played in the Swiss rounds. I win G1 pretty easily but in G2 he gets a T2 kill through. G3 I grind him out with plenty of removal and Lingering Souls.
SF // UW Fish: 2-0
This was some version playing with Cavern of Souls, TNN, Stoneforge Mystic, Cursecatcher, Judge's Familiar. He mulls twice to 6 and I beat him pretty easiliy.
F // Miracles: Split
I get to the finals against a teammate. He is a very good player and I think we both kinda want to get home so we agree to split prizes and I get the 2 Byes;)
The decklist felt really good for me. I think one of the big advantages of playing an Esper build is that the sideboard can take care of almost if not every matchup in Legacy.
The Sorin is some tech against Miracles/other control MU mainly since it cant get REB'd and has good synergy with Lingering Souls/Monastery Mentor. I didn't get to play it too often this tournament but I think it deserves a spot.
Another card I kinda want to fit in the sideboard again is Perish. I always used to play this since it's so good against RUG Delver,BUG Delver, Elves, Jund, Shardless BUG,.. really nice card.
Next time I will probably play 1-(2) Painful Truths in the deck which seems really good and it can always get Snapcaster'd so 1 might be enough even.
Greetings,
Johan
hi,
has anyone ever tried out a list with show and tell and griselbrand?
i lost to a build like that at a nearly 400 man tournament and since then i was really fascinated with that idea and now i try to rebuild the deck but i didnt see too much of it.
sadly i couldnt find any list although i googled for hours. thats why i registered here. maybe the one piloting this deck is even reading. who knows.
thanks in advance and excuse my bad english! :)
Just went 4-0 tonight vs. UW Landstill (2-0), BUG Delver (2-0), Enchantress (2-1) and Imperial Taxes (2-0) with the following list:
Creature (10)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
Sorcery (5)
4 Thoughtseize
1 Council's Judgment
Instant (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
Planeswalker (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifact (3)
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
Land (23)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Karakas
Sideboard (15)
1 Disenchant
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
1 Duress
2 Containment Priest
2 Meddling Mage
1 Path to Exile
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Zealous Persecution
Hello everyone,
This is an Esper StoneBlade list I have been using recently to unexpected success.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
4 Island
1 Plains
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
2 Predict
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Lingering Souls
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Disfigure
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
Sideboard:
3 Duress
3 Meddling Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Disfigure
1 Disenchant
1 Nihil Spellbomb
Essentially the concept is to make it as lean, consistent, and mana efficient as possible. The idea came from observing the cantrip-heavy Grixis Control decks, and the modern evolution of Miracles decks (in which cantrips were increased and clunky cards such as Entreat the Angels were cut as much as possible).
With this design Predict has been surprisingly awesome. On multiple occasions I have even kept pace with Shardless BUG's card advantage engine with these and Snapcaster cantrips flashbacks.
Has anyone else tested a StoneBlade design like this? Curious to hear your thoughts.
I took this list to my local today and managed to go 3-0-1 with it. Felt pretty good considering I just tossed it together the night before and I haven't played any legacy in a couple months.
Land
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
Artifacts
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Engineered Explosives
Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Intuition
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Counterspell
Sorceries
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Council's Judgment
3 Lingering Souls
1 Ponder
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Thoughtseize
Creatures
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
Sideboard
2 Containment Priest
1 Council's Judgment
1 Engineered Plague
1 Flusterstorm
2 Meddling Mage
1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
2 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Zealous Persecution
I'm not sure if 3x Souls and 3x Therapy is too much or not. Six discard is probably too many; maybe cutting a Thoughtseize for a second Ponder or a Painful Truths. Only cast Intuition once on the day, getting Therapy to deal with D&T getting Manriki-Gusari off a SFM.
R1 - 2-1 - Dredge
R2 - 2-1 - RUG Pyromancer
R3 - 1-1 - D&T
R4 - 2-1 - Elves
Sup guys, I've been playing with my Esperblade list in Cockatrice and MWStation and it has been pretty good, actually. Can someone give me some tips on the list?
Lands [22]
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Creeping Tar Pit
Creatures [11]
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
Spells [27]
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
3 Lingering Souls
2 Spell Pierce
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Ponder
1 Counterspell
Sideboard [15]
3 Meddling Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Disenchant
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Plague
1 Flusterstorm
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Rest for the Weary
Two main points:
1) Disenchant or Council's Judgement?
2) Do I need more discard in the sideboard (Duress)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
Don't u guys like painful truths?
3 mana, 3 life for 3 draw? No thanks.
1) I prefer Judgment as it hits more, and can easily help against other turn 1 spells in case you don't have Force of Will. The 1 more mana in casting cost comes with a lot of flexibility that I think is worth considering in a deck where you can reach 3 mana easier than decks with wasteland. This way you could perhaps also reduce Disenchant to 1 in the sideboard. As for what to remove for Council's Judgment I would perhaps go 3 x Snapcaster Mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
2) How come you don't want to use cabal therapy, when you have Lingering Souls?
So I have been playing Esper Stoneblade for a few months now and have been enjoying the heck out of it. My only consistant, nagging issue, is my local meta has 2 omni-show decks, and I'm always having problems against them. I have been running 2 disenchant, 2 canonists and 2 meddling mages out of my sideboard, with 4 force and 4 thoughtseize maindeck. However I have yet to win a match against either of the two. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips that I may be overlooking regarding this matchup?
For reference, here is my currently decklist.
Creatures:
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-name nemesis
Spells:
4 Brainstorm
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
1 Counterspell
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Council's Judgement
2 Lingering Souls
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Batterskull
4 Force of Will
Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
2 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Chill
2 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Meddling Mage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Zealous Persecution
Getting ready for legacy at GP Oakland, and wanted to get some advise about deck choice. Normally I would play RUG delver, but I'm considering stoneblade as a more straightforward and consistent deck to bring to a wide open meta. I am thinking that BUG and miracles will have a sizable showing.
If stoneblade is a good choice, which variant (UWR or UWB) is a better choice?
I'd be more tempted to play UWB since it would give you access to Thoughtseize, Lingering Souls and a few other cards. Red can be better against aggro but I think you'll find more combo (like TES) around, in addition to Miracles and BUG. You might have fair sideboard options with Red but in the maindeck it's basically only good for Lightning Bolt.Quote:
Originally Posted by SansSerif
I examined what I believe to be the problems that Esper has to face in the current metagame and came up with a quite special Esper Stoneblade list. Let me know what you think. :)
Greetings
thank you. that is the list i was looking for also it misses Supreme Verdict.
I really enjoyed playing the deck, but I desperately wanted another land in there. I will be playing just this deck for at least another 40-50 games.
An esper list finally made it to 10th place at the SCG event this weekend
Creatures (9)
Planeswalkers (3)
Lands (22)
- 2 Island
- 1 Plains
- 1 Swamp
- 4 Flooded Strand
- 2 Marsh Flats
- 3 Polluted Delta
- 1 Scrubland
- 3 Tundra
- 3 Underground Sea
- 1 Academy Ruins
- 1 Karakas
Spells (26)
- 1 Batterskull
- 1 Engineered Explosives
- 4 Brainstorm
- 1 Counterspell
- 1 Esper Charm
- 4 Force of Will
- 4 Swords to Plowshares
- 1 Umezawa's Jitte
- 1 Council's Judgment
- 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
- 2 Lingering Souls
- 1 Ponder
- 1 Supreme Verdict
- 2 Thoughtseize
- Sideboard
- 2 Containment Priest
- 1 Notion Thief
- 2 Rest in Peace
- 1 Disenchant
- 2 Spell Pierce
- 1 Surgical Extraction
- 1 Zealous Persecution
- 1 Cabal Therapy
- 1 Painful Truths
- 2 Perish
- 1 Telemin Performance
Aside from the single Council's Judgment and Painful Truths in the Sideboard, this deck looks pretty much like esper decks did before Treasure Cruise and DTT, right?