If most votes go for blowing up, then yes. If most votes or tied go for drawing a card then you draw a card. In a two player game, you and your opponent must vote to blow up the Portal to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Runninonwater
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If most votes go for blowing up, then yes. If most votes or tied go for drawing a card then you draw a card. In a two player game, you and your opponent must vote to blow up the Portal to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Runninonwater
Yes i do understand that now haha. Well it was the first time i got to play with it since i got the deck, talk about inexperienced/didn't read the card. I always saw it as an Phyrexian Arena with a bomb attached to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkgh0st
Oh well, i still like it as a 4 drop.
So did anyone see this crazy list that made top-4 at a modestly sized European touranment?
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18619&iddeck=141089
Creatures [5]
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Wurmcoil Engine
Planeswalkers [6]
3 Karn Liberated
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifacts [27]
1 Staff of Nin
2 Hedron Archive
2 Voltaic Key
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Trinisphere
4 Basalt Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Coercive Portal
4 Grim Monolith
Lands [22]
3 Karakas
3 Vesuva
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
Sideboard:
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 All Is Dust
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Trinisphere
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Trading Post
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Frankly this list boggles my mind. I don't understand how he did so well with such a wacky version of this deck. No Metalworkers, Lodestone golem in the SIDEBOARD, and tons of 4 mana artifacts that don't really impact the board immediately.
I get the cute trick of using Karakas to repeatedly re-play Ulamog, but is this really the best way to use all this mana? Is this better than just playing stuff like Ugin and Sundering Titan and playing Forgemaster to tutor for stuff?
@MGB: yup, saw it. Very interesting. I'm thinking of brewing something similar.
I'm testing it right now online and I have to say it plays out in an interesting way.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkgh0st
The centerpiece of the deck is the Coercive Portal as a 4-of. If you get it to stick, it's basically your draw engine to amass a critical amount of mana accelerants and bombs that the opponent can't deal with.
In traditional MUD, if opponent can deal with your Forgemaster. say, sometimes they can win if you don't draw into more must-answer threats. This deck just plays a whole bunch of top-end "must answer" cards, and the rest of the deck is basically mana accelerants to ensure you can cast them consistently.
I don't know if Basalt Monolith is better than Metalworker in its role, but I can see why he'd want the non-creature accelerant over the 1/2 creature that can be killed more easily.
I don't know if I can pull it off with a meta with lots of Null Rods and Wastelands. Plus I don't have the Karakas', which would help against Lands, Reanimator, and Legendary Miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Voltaic Keys make the Basalt Monolith quite great still.
I'm playing something quite a like, although there are some differences. First, as a kill condition I use Metalworker (4)+Staff (3) instead of the Ulamog/Karakas trick, second: I use Bottled Cloister (3 or 4) instead of the other draw engines alongside Ensnaring Bridge (4). This version seems more vulnerable to me, especially because of the bridges lacking, but hey it worked right :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Lodestone in the board makes sense if you're trying to blank your opponents removal. Bring them in after your opponent has boarded out his Bolts. Or just save them for the combo/control matchups.
Any Tips for Sideboarding against Show and Tell?
Would be cool to know how you guys sideboard.
I have 1 Spine, 1 Duplicant and an Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard and a Pithing Needle.
Do you think that would work?
Are Trinisphere good enough? Kinda slows them down with their cantrips.
Took last week off MUD to play some High Tide, but back on brown this week. Only 9 people came out, though. Anyway:
Round I: RUG: 0-2
- Game 1: I'm on double Tombs and he has double flipped Delvers. That game goes pretty quickly.
- Game 2: (I don't remember what I boarded, other than -1 Forgemaster. After the game he shows me he boarded out his Stifles :rolleyes:). Thanks to Vesuva I'm on double Tombs again, and he lands a Goyf. Oh well.
Round II: Sneak Breach: 2-1
- Game 1: He sticks a Blood Moon turn 1. I play a Lodestone and beat him down to 1, but then he kills me with a Sneaky Emrakul.
- Game 2: (-4 Chalice, -3 Trinisphere, +1 Platinum Angel, +1 Spine, +2 Thorn, +1 Crucible, +2 Needle.) Turn 1 Needle keeps him off Sneak Attack, then I get a quick Forgemaster > Blightsteel.
- Game 3: Waste him off his turn 1 Sandstone Needle. He's short of mana long enough for me to Forgemaster a Blightsteel again.
Round III: Sneak Breach: 2-1
- Game 1: Somehow there are 2 Sneak Breach players in a 9-person event . . . Game 1 he gets a quick Sneaky Emrakul. I have enough of a board presence to not immediately lose to Annihilator, but he follows it up next turn with a Pyromancy for the win.
- Game 2: (-4 Chalice, -3 Trinisphere, +1 Platinum Angel, +1 Spine, +2 Thorn, +1 Crucible, +2 Needle.) Needle helps me out long enough for a Forgemaster > Blightsteel.
- Game 3: He plays turn 1 Mountain and Lotus Petal, I play a Needle and then a turn 2 Thorn. He never hits another land. I get a quick Blightsteel.
Round IV: UR Delver: 1-2
- Game 1: Ancient Tomb + Delver + Goblin Guide.
- Game 2: (-1 Forgemaster, -1 Spine, -1 Portal, +2 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Contagion Engine.) I hit the MUD jackpot. It goes something like Trinisphere > Wasteland > Lodestone > Lodestone > Wurmcoil.
- Game 3: Tomb and Goblin Guide get me down to 8 pretty quickly. I have a Chalice on 1, play a Metalworker with a Staff of Domination and Ugin in my hand and enough mana to cast either next turn. He swings with the Guide; I don’t block, figuring he can’t Bolt me and I can combo off next turn. He hits me with a Price of Progress for 6 and wins. He had a 2nd Price in his hand, so even if I’d blocked he woulda gotten me next turn. Stupid Price.
Thoughts:
- Has anyone else been experiencing weaning Legacy turnouts? I moved to TX in September, and since then I've seen the weekly attendance slowly go from ~18 to ~8-10.
- Is Sneak Breach (i.e. Mono R Sneak Attack) seeing much play around you guys, or was this just an anomaly?
- All 4 games I won against Sneak Breach were through quick Blightsteels. Otherwise it seems like a bad matchup; we cannot win in a long game with them, and can only disrupt them through Waste & Lodestone.
- In between rounds, the first Sneak Breach player and I jam some games with his Shardless deck. Seems like a much better matchup than BUG – less countermagic, and Trinisphere can hurt him bad.
- As the UR Delver player pointed out to me, I shouldn’t have boarded out Forgemaster: a 3/5 is pretty tough for him to deal with.
Should this thread be about all things colorless, or try to stock with Metalworker strategies. I don't mind either. I just want a consensus. Or all things colorless (splashes are welcome) that does "big things".
I love the 2 Wurmcoil / 2 Hellkite configuration, and has been my goto configuration for years. Though, due to the popularity of BUG at the moment, I'd actually recommend the 3/1 split to deal with Lili. If your meta has more Elves and RUG though, Steel Hellkite is better. Against a meta with more Miracles and StP, I actually prefer Batterskull. Currently, I am doing the 2 Wurmcoil, 1 Hellkite, 1 Batterskull configuration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I also like your last point. After you buy some core cards like City of Traitors, but is very inexpensive and surprisingly moddable.
Yeah, I think you may be right. Thanks for the idea!Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
There is nothing I dislike about the list. Though, let's face it. Any deck with Voltaic Key will have my seal of approval. I love that card. Sometimes, it also pays to go rogue. This deck is similar to one from another Japanese artificer that I got in contact with.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
土地：24枚
雲上の座×4
微光地×4
ヴェズーヴァ×4
古の墳墓×4
魂の洞窟×4
裏切り者の都×2
ヨーグモスの墳墓、アーボーグ×2
クリーチャー：18枚
金属細工師×4
磁石のゴーレム×4
ワームとぐろエンジン×4
鋼のヘルカイト×3
隔離するタイタン×3
その他：18枚
虚空の杯×4
三なる宝球×4
厳かなモノリス×4
強制の門×4
精霊龍、ウギン×2
サイドボード：15枚
真髄の針×4
漸増爆弾×3
アメジストのとげ×2
イシュ・サーの背骨×2
Maze of Ith×2
大祖始の遺産×2
The idea is that Forgemaster is garbage in the Cloudpost build. Instead, just play Coercive Portal to gain massive card advantage, drop bombs after bombs to beat face, and eventually win with inevitably. Never tried the list but seems interesting.
You have been playing that list for a while now. How do you like it in the current meta. How is Bottled Cloister. Sugiyama-san and I have been debating to use Bottled Cloister over Coercive Portal, especially against BUG, but the idea of it getting blown up is frankly daunting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwave
It makes sense for me since most of his big stuff are not artifacts. Playing Lodestone Golem may actually be detrimental because it would delay him to drop his bombs.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
Spine, Duplicant, and Ensnaring Bridge are all great. Pithing Needle is great against Sneak Attack, but is only okay against Griselbrand. They still have a 7/7 Flying Demon with Lifelink...Quote:
Originally Posted by Runninonwater
Here is an evolving document of my deck and sideboard strategy, in collaboration with Takumi Sugiyama. The only difference is that I prefer a Batterskull over the third Wurmcoil Engine. Sugiyama-san prefers the third Wurmcoil due to the fragility of the Germ token. I personally like Batterskull it's an amazing wall against fair decks that likes to go wide, and has a better time dealing with StP. If there were a lot of RUG and Elves in the meta, having the 2nd Steel Hellkite may be a better call.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
1) That sounds about right. Turnouts usually get lower from end of summer to winter, have a spike at winter break, get back low again in spring, and spike up again for the whole summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
2) I have only seen it once at Jupiter Games in NYC like three years ago.
3) I can see that being true.
4) Shardless is a toss up. If they Hymn us and jam down Lili, it can be tough. Person on play has a massive advantage.
5) Yup. I beat RUG players all the time with my 3/5 all the time. It also forces then to hold up mana for Stifle.
I've seen the Sneak Breach thing a couple times at Jupiter before too, but I haven't been there in a couple years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runninonwater
I run the spine main myself, but that duplicant and bridge are all fine to bring in. I like revoker in my board over needle, but either of them will work.
Personally I always boarded out the 3spheres against them, the really critical stuff that they cast isn't affected by it and I found 3sphere to be pretty lackluster.
You know, the more I ruminate on that list that placed top 4 at that European tournament ... the more it seems like the PERFECT deck for the modern Legacy metagame. Let's see:
- It crushes Miracles and BUG decks through its inevitability in ways that other MUDs really don't.
- It takes advantage of all the soft permission being played right now by the blue decks. Spell Snare, Spell Pierce and Daze are mostly useless against all the mana it produces not only through its lands but its artifact accelerants, and of course Counterbalance will never counter any of its bombs.
- It doesn't try to play the mana denial game as much as other MUD decks do, and instead focuses on just winning first. It still has enough mana denial and Lodestone in the board for stuff like Storm, but it doesn't run into the problem of "well I just drew all my lock pieces but I'm going to lose to a single Delver" because eventually some big bomb will stick.
- The 3 Karakas MD solve some of the problems this deck has against Sneak'n'Show and Lands combo decks. You can win random games against these decks by drawing your Karakas that traditional MUD just wouldn't.
- It mitigates the problem that MUD has against Wasteland / Rishadan Port decks in that it can play enough artifact accelerants such as Monoliths and Thran Dynamo and Hedron Archive to consistently get 8+ mana even if the Post manabase has been nullified by Wastes/Ports. Traditional MUD needs to rely 100% on its land base not getting dismantled or its Metalworker getting killed.
- Elves still seems tough but it plays Ratchet Bomb and Revoker in the sideboard.
I don't know about you guys but playing Monoliths+Dynamos+Ulamogs+Ugins+Karns might just be the "broke the format" approach right now.
I'd be fine with this being broader than Metalworker; good way of keeping our minds open & not getting caught up in one approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
I'm assuming it's just an anomaly here, maybe related to the Dig ban and Omnitell going away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fry
As others have said, all of those are good cards to bring in. Which version of Show and Tell are you up against -- Sneak Snow?Quote:
Originally Posted by Runninonwater
I'm not going to assume it will break the format, but it's certainly an interesting build. It looks to me like it'd still be vulnerable to stuff like a quick Delver or a well-timed Waste, as it has less disruption and no mid-sized robots running defense. Likewise, I don't feel like our Miracles matchup needs to get any better than it already is. On the other hand, it does look better and better each time I think about what it's doing . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Played today with a 12 people turn out. Went 3-0, then ID for prize.
I played against BUG, keeping a 2 lander 1st game and a 3 lander 2nd game and not getting wasted pulled the win. (2-0)
Then against Sneak and Show. Some combination of Chalice, Trinisphere, Lodestone gets there. (2-0)
Then against Miracles. He never wins against me and dreaded that he had to face me again. (2-0)
I ID'ed against the 2nd BUG player, as he knows it could have swung either way.
Then I played someone else's Stax deck against some decks for fun... Fun for me, not for them. It was nicely built, and purely aimed to lock out opponents. I can provide a rough decklist if wanted here. The deck's owner lost to the BUG player that I ID'ed with, seeing 3 FoW 1st game and 2 in game 2. It really would have been nice to have a MUD vs Stax match, but he didn't want to play against me.
Thanks for the tips guys/gals :)
@Stuart
Yes, it was a Sneak and Show deck.
That odd list with Ugins and Karns + Ulamog seems interesting. Sadly i do not have the cards for it or i would like to try it out :)
Its definetly a different approach.
You can always proxy what you miss and test it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Runninonwater
Well, I scrubbed out of GP Seattle. I had 2 byes, then I promptly lost 2 rounds vs BUG, won a round vs merfolk, then lost a round vs deadguy ale, which put me at 3-3 which was reason enough to drop. I had very bad luck with draws and matchups, so I'm pretty disappointed.
I'm going to put MUD in the corner for a bit.
Still... You have pretty good luck not experiencing those till now. You've had a lot of success with MUD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakobian