[Primer] Elves!

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Skysweeper is too mana intensive. And concerning Scryb Ranger - why not just play Quirion Ranger? It can get countered, Bolted, Abrupt Decay'd and StP'd by the opponent playing Delver the same as the Scryb Ranger can, but for one less mana. Also, Scryb Ranger really needs to turn into an elf. If it were one, I'd run at least a 3/1 split.

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Scattershot Archer or Skyshroud Archer have impact on ather creatures as well bird of paradise, vendilion clique, ornithopter, spellstuter sprite, aven mindsensor, flickerwisp, balefull strix and the new Hushwing Gryff.

anyway it was just a thought.

Just a quick question, how important is it to have a 3rd color in the deck? I've been browsing the lists lately as my GF wants to buy the deck, but she doesn't have any staples and would appreciate to cut the costs at the max possible. We've seen lists with Savannah, lists with Tropical Island, but never both at the same time and barely no lists with 2 colors only.

What's the general thought on this?

I'd probably run Pharika if she didn't need the exile. If she didn't, she could actually do work against Terminus etc. But as it is, meh. Packmaster is a boss and I've been very happy with him. The monogreen activation cost is also very relevant because of Heritage and Cradle. You can take over games with that relatively quickly.

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Originally Posted by LDX

Just a quick question, how important is it to have a 3rd color in the deck? I've been browsing the lists lately as my GF wants to buy the deck, but she doesn't have any staples and would appreciate to cut the costs at the max possible. We've seen lists with Savannah, lists with Tropical Island, but never both at the same time and barely no lists with 2 colors only.

What's the general thought on this?

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I'm running BG only (though, once I get my hands on 2 Windswept Heath I might run a one off Savannah for the SB), it's really not an issue. Cutting down to mono G can also be done, though that'd be more of aggro Elves thing (with Priest of Titania etc.).

There are no white or black maindeck cards normally, so in theory all that's needed is a sinlge Bayou for DRS purposes in the main. The problem is sideboard options (Abrupt Decay and discard) need you to up the Bayou count and a lot of people are running white SB options too. Same for Blue, which is mainly used for Swan Song. Nothing you really need at the very least ;)

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Originally Posted by Zombie

I'd probably run Pharika if she didn't need the exile. If she didn't, she could actually do work against Terminus etc. But as it is, meh. Packmaster is a boss and I've been very happy with him. The monogreen activation cost is also very relevant because of Heritage and Cradle. You can take over games with that relatively quickly.

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Haven't tried the Packmaster yet, but yeah. getting to 4GG or even 6GGG is easier than GGBB.

Elves I feel is one of those decks that has a better time when it has more options. A third colour is not harmful, and opens up a world of options, White, hatebears, Blue, counters and Red... Not a hell of a lot. Yes, you can run this deck on two colours, hell you can run it on one, but I think you will have a better time overall if you do not limit your options to the two primary colours.

Played elves at scg worcester:

2-1 Burn
1-2 Affinity
1-2 Infect
2-0 Burn
2-1 Infect
2-0 Miracles
2-0 Sneak Show
2-0 Affinity
0-2 TES (vs Bryant -- played 2 turns in the match, died on 2 on the draw and 1 on the play)

Can someone explain to me how the decks I faced make any sense in reality?

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Originally Posted by ventouza6969

Scattershot Archer or Skyshroud Archer have impact on ather creatures as well bird of paradise, vendilion clique, ornithopter, spellstuter sprite, aven mindsensor, flickerwisp, balefull strix and the new Hushwing Gryff.

anyway it was just a thought.

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I think I'd rather run a Jagged-Scar Archers rather then those. It's too bad Femeref Archers needs the flying creature to attack in order to shoot it in the face, otherwise that one might be viable. Running a creature that can't shoot the main reason you're playing it in the first place without any help from other creatures just seems silly to me.

Or you could just stick with Meekstone for the stronger flyers and ignore the rest.

Technically Jagged-Scar Archers can't either ;)

You are absolutely right :smile:.

The thing is though, with the Jagged-Scar Archers having any other elf on the battlefield means the Archers will get the job done. In case of those other creatures you either need a Quirion Ranger or a Wirewood Symbiote + a 2nd elf.

It just makes it that much easier. And it might turn into a nice, big beatstick that can drag you to victory when you don't draw a NO or Hoof. Or it just stays 1/1 and annoy the crap out of you :tongue:

For sure Jagged-Scar Archers is a better card to have into play. But you expect that for a 3-mana creature compare to a one mana one.

Against RUG, our best plan is glimpse, and even for the creature itself 3 mana (4 for GSZ) is not always that easy to reach. Additionaly, if you land him against a delver, next turn symbiot, the delver player has to kill it and thus save the symbiot which is a very important card in the MU.

I think I will try Scattershot archer. It has utilities against delver decks and D&T, and the 2 thoughtness needed to survive golgari charm.

Is not better Meekstone than any archer??

Could be Defense Grid the best anticounter?
The only disadvantage is that we can not use decays in his turn (except for 3GB).

Lolwut? I'd rather just stick with Meekstone + Glimpse-plan (when not going for the silly aggro-plan). Though with the aggro plan I still keep in the Glimpses since the creature count only goes up.

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Originally Posted by carlitines

Could be Defense Grid the best anticounter?
The only disadvantage is that we can not use decays in his turn (except for 3GB).

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I really like the idea of testing out Defense Grid. I have used it while playing Sneak and Show, but never tested it in Elves.
Anyone have any luck using it?
Guess the biggest question is, what do we remove for it? We need 20 spots in the side!

How is Defense Grid better than Meekstone? Strategically they serve the same purpose, protect your spells from softcounters. Tactically, Defense Grid does this by increasing their costs while Meekstone buys you a lot of time, allowing to to evade their tempo plan. Meekstone stops you from dying and is much easier to resolve than Grid. Defense Grid is harder to cast, doesn't stop you from dying and doesn't help you with the central conflict of the matchup: stopping the ever-present clock of Delver. I actually had someone present it to me in Prague on the weekend and it looked really, really bad and out of place in a deck like Elves.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

No offense, but this is probably the least relevant of all the abilities when comparing the two.

The most important upside is that it's an Elf and dominates the board. Pharika's impact on the board is almost zero because in those long and grindy games, which are the reason you want WRP in the first place, Pharika will hardly ever be a creature. Being an Elf helps a lot with activating it's ability with Heritage Druid AND saving it with Wirewood Symbiote. Also cute tricks like allowing for instant-speed Virdian Shamans etc. but that's just cute stuff. Another big point, Pharika is also harder to activate than WRP and produces less valueable tokens. To me, except for costing 1 less mana, there's is literally no upside at all for running Pharika.

I definitely remember you by the way! You wanted me to sign your cards but we didn't have a good pen ready at the time! Hope you had an awesome time in Paris! [emoji2]

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It's important to remember that there is one upside to Pharika, which is that she doesn't die to a stp while still on the stack. Champion makes you pick a creature while still on the stack before passing priority. If that creature dies before WRP comes into play, so will WRP.

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

It's important to remember that there is one upside to Pharika, which is that she doesn't die to a stp while still on the stack. Champion makes you pick a creature while still on the stack before passing priority. If that creature dies before WRP comes into play, so will WRP.

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As I understood it, this is not how Champion works. If I cast WRP with the Champion trigger on the stack, I choose nothing until it resolves. So the only way my opponent can "fizzle" my WRP is if they wipe all of my other Elves from play. It's a bit like Cabal Therapy. I'll announce the spell, and they can respond, and then I choose the card to champion or the card to discard. Something like that.

I'm no rules guru, but that's how Champion was explained to me.

Edit - the card says "another elf you control". So they can shoot my Deathrite in response, but then I can go ahead and pick my Nettle Sentinel.

Yes, we may need clarification.

That's how it worked when it was in standard. I had a judge at an scg event explain it to me during my time playing elementals in standard. I guess clarification on this is necessary.

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Originally Posted by danyul

As I understood it, this is not how Champion works. If I cast WRP with the Champion trigger on the stack, I choose nothing until it resolves. So the only way my opponent can "fizzle" my WRP is if they wipe all of my other Elves from play. It's a bit like Cabal Therapy. I'll announce the spell, and they can respond, and then I choose the card to champion or the card to discard. Something like that.

I'm no rules guru, but that's how Champion was explained to me.

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And you're perfectly right.

Did it change or has it always been that way?