[Primer] Nic Fit

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Tournament report for yesterday, 6/26/2018 at the Summer 1K at The Complex, Scarborough, Maine. I ended up going 3-3, beating Aggro Loam, TES, and Turbo Depths. I lost to UW Stoneblade, Esper Stoneblade, and Elves.

...Report...

Best cards: Liliana, the Last Hope, Siege Rhino, Painful Truths, Sylvan Library.

Worst cards: Pithing Needle was fairly lackluster all day, I only boarded it in against Depths combo. Deed + Needle is awkward when both are good in a matchup but you kill your own Needles. Rethinking that plan, maybe it's time to figure out a different option.


Cards I wish I had: golgari charm in the sideboard. If I could have chained Charm into Deed I think Elves would be a lot more winnable. The value against the Esper Stoneblade deck would have been insane as well, and it handily dinks off my Explorers for mana. I also wish I had a Reclamation Sage to bring in from the sideboard. I may drop the Needles for those two cards in the future.


So overall, not a bad outing, just a mediocre one while I learn the ins and outs of the deck (which is super sweet, btw.) I also traded into a Japanese Phyrexian Tower and other great stuff. I'll be sticking with this deck for a while, it's definitely super fun, and surprisingly good against the fair decks. Some better sideboard options and more practice should help me tune it up. Doran did what I wanted, will likely stick with him. Suggestions for how to do different lines (I can provide more matchup details) would be awesome, but overall I think there's just so much the deck can do it takes a while to learn. It isn't a deck I can jump onto and have immediate success, that's for sure, but's its fun and good enough to put in the time.

Thanks for reading!

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Great report! Do you have a list of what you boarded out and in for each match? It's always helpful to go over sideboarding strategies.

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Originally Posted by kramer733

I keep on hearing that there's a nic fit list that focuses on planeswalkers with academy rector. Does anybody have a good example of this list?

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It's still very much in development. Some are taking a more fair approach into an accidental "Oops, I win" strategy and others (or perhaps just I, I don't know) ported the Evolutionary Leap list to see how that played out. There isn't a solid list-list yet though. This might be in part b/c enchantments looks to be the more powerful version.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Worst cards: Pithing Needle was fairly lackluster all day, I only boarded it in against Depths combo. Deed + Needle is awkward when both are good in a matchup but you kill your own Needles. Rethinking that plan, maybe it's time to figure out a different option.

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Great read.

Why you did not board Needle against Blade?

It stops Jace and Mystic.

It looks like I started a shitstorm with my post about PW. I will better avoid posting anything:tongue:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Great report! Do you have a list of what you boarded out and in for each match? It's always helpful to go over sideboarding strategies.

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No problem! I'll try and remember.

Against UW Stoneblade R1 I cut the 3x Path to Exile/1x Vindicate for 3x Duress/1x To the Slaughter. I think boarding out the Vindicate was wrong (deals with Jace) but remember that I misaligned him to Miracles. Vindicate is pretty sour against Miracles, in my experience. I named Jace at least twice in this matchup with Therapy, missing each time, but eventually losing to myself with the Leyline of Sanctity on board (doh!) and Jace value.

Against TES R2 I boarded out 3x Path, 2x Abrupt Decay, 1x Pernicious Deed, Painful Truths and brought in 2x Canonist, 3x Duress, and 2x Lost Legacy. I left in 2 Deeds for Warrens, a pretty typical strategy out of TES. If it was ANT I would have considered dropping Libraries for Surgical Extraction and/or Nihil Spellbomb. I stole g1, g2 I had the nuts.

Against Elves R3 I boarded out 1x Sigarda, 1x Nissa, and 1x Vindicate for Toxic Deluge and 2x Canonist. The 3 going out were slow, the 3 coming in seemed like the best options. I took about 2 minutes deciding on whether Teeg was appropriate or not; I decided to leave him out. In retrospect *not* losing seems to probably be better, even at the cost of my own GSZ's. Correct? Incorrect?

Aggro Loam R4 I don't think I boarded out anything; my list seemed tailor-made to run over permanent based decks like this, and it did. I naturally drew Scooze g1 and he did awesome work.

Esper Stoneblade R5 was where I made the mistake of boarding out Pridemage g3. I took out Paths for Duress g2-3, and somehow cut the Pridemage for Deluge. In retrospect, not sure what I was thinking, I should have boarded out a Deathrite Shaman for the Deluge. Maybe not correct, but certainly better than cutting one of my best cards against equipments/Needles. This is where I wanted the RecSage, and even the Golgari Charm. Souls and TNN would have been much more manageable.

Turbo Depths in R6 I was feeling very nervous about, not much to bring in. I cut the 3 deeds for 2x Needle and 1x To the Slaughter. Needles for Stage/Hexmage and Slaughter for a 20/20, but overall, pretty shifty matchup. The 3 maindeck paths are ok, but they can just draw and play lands and win.

Hope that helps to get some feedback. The room was very 'fair', several Czechs/grixis delvers/d&t decks along with a couple burn players and Chalice Stompy variants (besides what I faced.) Thirty-Five players in total. Seems like in that metagame I could do some serious damage in, but I boarded badly both in building the sideboard and shifting during g2-3. Phyrexian Tower would have been *tha nutz* if I had it the times I drew Rogue's Passage (even though I got a hilarious win against Esper Stoneblade with it.) Didn't see NIssa all day, or if I did it was a liability due to the speed of my opponents (Elves, TES, Depths.)

I'm going off the SB you posted a few pages back, so some of this might be a little inaccurate.

So on your MUs, against both Esper and UW Stoneblade I wouldn't have cut my spotremoval. They have very little in the way of threats, and being able to deal with them is pretty key to the MU. It should be a very good MU in general, regardless of Jace. I also would have boarded in Pithing Needle as it stops Jace & can turn Batterskull into a useless rock. As a sidenote, I would also board Needle in against Miracles since it's another way to kill Jace. Looking at your list I would have boarded in Duress, Lost Legacy, Pithing Needle and Maelstrom pulse.

Vs. Elves! I would've also boarded in Lost Legacy, as naming Craterhoof Behemoth strips them of their I-win button. And Duress, to strip away Glimpse of Nature/Green Sun's Zenith/Natural Order and Surgical Extraction to follow up.

Against Turbo Depths I would've boarded Lost Legacy in again, either to stop Life from the Loam or strip away some tutors. And Surgicals again.

I guess the general message is to be more aggressive with your sideboarding. Especially Lost Legacy is a very good catch-all.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

I'm going off the SB you posted a few pages back, so some of this might be a little inaccurate.

So on your MUs, against both Esper and UW Stoneblade I wouldn't have cut my spotremoval. They have very little in the way of threats, and being able to deal with them is pretty key to the MU. It should be a very good MU in general, regardless of Jace. I also would have boarded in Pithing Needle as it stops Jace & can turn Batterskull into a useless rock. As a sidenote, I would also board Needle in against Miracles since it's another way to kill Jace. Looking at your list I would have boarded in Duress, Lost Legacy, Pithing Needle and Maelstrom pulse.

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Taking out?

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Vs. Elves! I would've also boarded in Lost Legacy, as naming Craterhoof Behemoth strips them of their I-win button. And Duress, to strip away Glimpse of Nature/Green Sun's Zenith/Natural Order and Surgical Extraction to follow up.

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I honestly didn't even consider that angle. I guess I had the creatures covered so I need to board against the spells, which are really what I lose to. Great advice.

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Against Turbo Depths I would've boarded Lost Legacy in again, either to stop Life from the Loam or strip away some tutors. And Surgicals again.

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I kind of disagree on this one, having played a healthy amount of depths combo myself. It was the last round and I don't remember much of it also. Surgicals work really well when paired with Wasteland for their Depths/Stage, but boarding it in only for Hexmage (as I don't have Wastelands) seems pretty deep. Legacy doesn't hit lands unfortunately, and again, boarding it for just Hexmage seems kinda bad when Needle deals with it better. Depths doesn't play loam, and this guy was on a stock list. Literally everything else in the deck is completely manageable.

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I guess the general message is to be more aggressive with your sideboarding. Especially Lost Legacy is a very good catch-all.

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Thanks for the help! I will sideboard more aggressively, for sure.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Taking out?

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Post the full 75 so I can tell you :laugh:

Have at it!


Maindeck - 61

4x Veteran Explorer
3x Deathrite Shaman
4x Siege Rhino
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Eternal Witness
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Doran, the Siege Tower
4x Green Sun’s Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Path to Exile
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Pernicious Deed
2x Sylvan Library
1x Painful Truths
1x Vindicate
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Liliana, the Last Hope

1x Dryad arbor
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Marsh Flats
1x wooded foothills
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
3x Forest
2x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Rogue’s Passage

Sideboard - 15

3x Duress
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Lost Legacy
2x Pithing Needle
1x Toxic Deluge
1x To the Slaughter
1x Nihil Spellbomb

Thanks!

So, when boarding in general I begin by asking myself what cards I have in my sideboard that can either deal with things my opponent does to interfere with my gameplan or that interfere with his/her gameplan.

Considering the Stoneblade MU, the following cards in your SB deal with things they do to interfere with your gameplan or interfere with their gameplan:
- 3 Duress, this can strip away Jace/tutored equipment/counters/sweepers if they have it
- 2 Surgical Extraction, this also allows you to look at their hand so you have perfect information to plan your next few turns. Even Extracting a Brainstorm/Ponder deals a good blow to their consistency.
- 2 Lost Legacy, name what you don't want to deal with and it's gone. Be it Jace, sweepers or StP.
- 2 Pithing Needle, turns equipments and Jaces into dumb rocks
- 1 Toxic Deluge, equipment is useless without a body
- 1 To The Slaughter

When having to board stuff out I take a similar approach. What cards do I play that either make my opponents cards better, are easily answered by my opponent or don't have an impact on their particular gameplan. In this case I'd look at boarding in 11 cards, so we'll have to make quite some cuts.
- 3 Veteran Explorer. Stoneblade decks usually run a number of basics too and you don't want to give them easy access to their powerful stuff. Your manabase is solid and you run 3 DRS, you'll get by without the Explorers. Keep 1 in just in case you need one, cut the others
- 1 Doran, the Siege Tower. Some of those lists run Karakas. Just let that thing be a Plains. We've got plenty ways to deal w/ TNN, we'll be fine
- 1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth, for the same reason (Karakas)
- 1 Scavenging Ooze, does too little in this MU. You have 3 DRS available to you to bother their Snapcasters
- 1 Painful Truths, I'd rather have actual cards then CA here
- 1 Liliana, the Last Hope. Can only kill Snapcaster and nothing else and is rather soft to TNN. I'd rather make way for something more powerful.
- 2 Siege Rhino b/c you have to cut something and GSZ ensures you still have 6 copies left
- 1 Cabal Therapy. Therapy gets worse when running so few Explorers

Hopefully this helps!

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Thanks!

So, when boarding in general I begin by asking myself what cards I have in my sideboard that can either deal with things my opponent does to interfere with my gameplan or that interfere with his/her gameplan.

Considering the Stoneblade MU, the following cards in your SB deal with things they do to interfere with your gameplan or interfere with their gameplan:
- 3 Duress, this can strip away Jace/tutored equipment/counters/sweepers if they have it
- 2 Surgical Extraction, this also allows you to look at their hand so you have perfect information to plan your next few turns. Even Extracting a Brainstorm/Ponder deals a good blow to their consistency.
- 2 Lost Legacy, name what you don't want to deal with and it's gone. Be it Jace, sweepers or StP.
- 2 Pithing Needle, turns equipments and Jaces into dumb rocks
- 1 Toxic Deluge, equipment is useless without a body
- 1 To The Slaughter

When having to board stuff out I take a similar approach. What cards do I play that either make my opponents cards better, are easily answered by my opponent or don't have an impact on their particular gameplan. In this case I'd look at boarding in 11 cards, so we'll have to make quite some cuts.
- 3 Veteran Explorer. Stoneblade decks usually run a number of basics too and you don't want to give them easy access to their powerful stuff. Your manabase is solid and you run 3 DRS, you'll get by without the Explorers. Keep 1 in just in case you need one, cut the others
- 1 Doran, the Siege Tower. Some of those lists run Karakas. Just let that thing be a Plains. We've got plenty ways to deal w/ TNN, we'll be fine
- 1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth, for the same reason (Karakas)
- 1 Scavenging Ooze, does too little in this MU. You have 3 DRS available to you to bother their Snapcasters
- 1 Painful Truths, I'd rather have actual cards then CA here
- 1 Liliana, the Last Hope. Can only kill Snapcaster and nothing else and is rather soft to TNN. I'd rather make way for something more powerful.
- 2 Siege Rhino b/c you have to cut something and GSZ ensures you still have 6 copies left
- 1 Cabal Therapy. Therapy gets worse when running so few Explorers

Hopefully this helps!

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Thanks! Much of that, as you know, is counterintuitive. Cutting Explorers seems like Sacrilege, simply because it's the central engine to the deck. I agree with it, it's just not something I would have picked up on my own. Same with Painful Truths...I figured against grindy decks, anything that can pull me ahead in cards seems very good, like Library or Truths. Again, I agree, but that is one card I would really have a struggle boarding out.

I was also thinking that boarding in that many cards makes me feel like I somehow built my deck/sideboard wrong. Maybe it's the right thing to do, and you mentioned that I should be boarding aggressively. It's something I have to get used to.

Regarding Doran: if I don't keep him in against TNN then I won't play him *at all*. It was the biggest reason for playing Doran in the first placel. The other reasons are speeding up the clock by 1/2 a turn (rhinos/Meren attack for more), making DRS hit for 2 if RiP/Leyline of the Void are on the table, and attacking through Ensnaring Bridge (which is all the rave with the red Chalice decks these days.) I didn't see the Karakas angle, so that's something. Maybe I play my own Karakas?

EDIT: Teeg against Elves? Yes/no?

Teeg against Elves! is a bit of a double edged sword. It stops their easiest paths to the I-win button, but it also hurts your own GSZ. I dunno, it's something I struggle with.

On Doran, yeah, most of those things are corner cases with in some cases just some fringe benefits. Same goes for Ensnaring Bridge - it's not that we can't deal w/ Bridge (especially when you can loop QPM w/ Meren).

That's what I figured, there is no clear answer on Teeg. Generally I think removal, discard, Canonist, Deed...all of these do the job. The issue is speed. I think for that reason I'll try and squeeze in a Golgari Charm in the sideboard. It has some pretty great uses against a multitude of decks; it would even have answered the Leyline of Sanctity I saw in the stoneblade matchup (and I'd be boarding it in for TNN anyways.)

Doran makes the deck very aggressive, similar to a Tarmogoyf. I see it as a Tarmogoyf that isn't dependant on graveyards, always beats for 5 (pretty fast clock) and has some utility value outside of just beats (TNN, Bridge.) Every time I had Doran available I played him and he was good. I even GSZ-ed for him a couple times and it paid off. I'm going to give him some more time before I move on.

Meren...that's a card that I am on the fence about. It's incredible for recursion, but the most common removal is StP. She also doesn't play well with Scavenging Ooze when I need to get aggressive. Ooze recoups lifeloss and makes a big beater, usually giving better value than Meren over 2 turns. Just my observation so far. In all the cases I had Meren out I would have gotten Veteran Explorer back, and that's not fantastic really. I understand I need to be more aggressive with sacrificing my own creatures (Deed/Therapy) and then get them back. Maybe I'm just playing her wrong.

I'll mess around with the sideboard a little bit and repost it.

Meren is either a terrible Siege Rhino or totally busted and usually once you consider cutting her from the list she proves to be the latter and you keep her around anyway :laugh:

I've been so close to cutting Meren so many times and each and every time that happened she pulled me right back into a game.

Meren and Ooze usually don't compete over the same resources though. I tend to use Ooze as a DRS counter or last ditch effort to dig myself out of a whole and Meren to bog the board down when I'm either not too far behind or about to get the upper hand.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Meren is either a terrible Siege Rhino or totally busted and usually once you consider cutting her from the list she proves to be the latter and you keep her around anyway :laugh:

I've been so close to cutting Meren so many times and each and every time that happened she pulled me right back into a game.

Meren and Ooze usually don't compete over the same resources though. I tend to use Ooze as a DRS counter or last ditch effort to dig myself out of a whole and Meren to bog the board down when I'm either not too far behind or about to get the upper hand.

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Yeah, I just need practice. I think I'm playing a shade fewer creatures than most lists, too (only 18) so that might be the difference as well. I was really hopeful for Liliana/Meren synergy, but overall I think Liliana is probably better generally and Meren is better specifically (depending on matchup.)

BTW, how often are you using fetches to grab Dryad Arbor to flashback Therapy? I did it multiple times and it felt pretty busted.

EDIT: Revised Sideboard (I'm a little iffy on Lost Legacy. I think it's good, but I think I want the other cards more.)

3x Duress
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Pithing Needle
1x Toxic Deluge
1x To the Slaughter
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Golgari Charm
1x Reclamation Sage

Been lurking the nic fit thread for a while now and the build that really caught my eye was the scapewish build that did well at the last eternal weekend and I haven't seen that subarchetype discussed in a while. Has anyone been running that version recently? If so, how has it been for you?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

BTW, how often are you using fetches to grab Dryad Arbor to flashback Therapy? I did it multiple times and it felt pretty busted.

EDIT: Revised Sideboard (I'm a little iffy on Lost Legacy. I think it's good, but I think I want the other cards more.)

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Very much depends on the MU. So anywhere from hardly to quite often.

On Lost Legacy, the best thing about it is that it's a very broad answer. It's relevant in all of our bad MUs where most cards are a bit more narrow. I prefer having something to put in vs. all MUs over having a lot to put in vs. a few MUs, if that makes any sense.

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Originally Posted by ottomanottoman

Been lurking the nic fit thread for a while now and the build that really caught my eye was the scapewish build that did well at the last eternal weekend and I haven't seen that subarchetype discussed in a while. Has anyone been running that version recently? If so, how has it been for you?

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Yeah, Junk is all the rage at the moment, with Nyx Fit, Arena Rector and the regular fair build. The list you're referring to is Arianrhods. I don't know if he still lurks in the thread though. Most people have fully moved to the discord.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Very much depends on the MU. So anywhere from hardly to quite often.

On Lost Legacy, the best thing about it is that it's a very broad answer. It's relevant in all of our bad MUs where most cards are a bit more narrow. I prefer having something to put in vs. all MUs over having a lot to put in vs. a few MUs, if that makes any sense.

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I actually have the polar opposite view, lol. I want my maindeck generally powerful and my sideboard to be specific. I'm not saying Lost Legacy is a bad card, but for what it does I'm not sure it carries its weight in a format as big as legacy. What I mean is this: I can't account for every matchup, so having only 8 cards to bring in against my bad matchups is ok to me. I also want to be able to tip the close matchups in my favor as well.

EDIT: Here is the top 8 from the tournament, the winner was my Elves opponent.

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19457&f=LE

Also, has anybody every tried a 4-Color Nic Fit variant? I know, sacrilege, but I'd love to put my Punishing Fires to work. I think red offers some really decent sideboard cards as well. There's no way I'm giving up on Siege Rhino, so just curious if anyone has tried 4 colors.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I actually have the polar opposite view, lol. I want my maindeck generally powerful and my sideboard to be specific. I'm not saying Lost Legacy is a bad card, but for what it does I'm not sure it carries its weight in a format as big as legacy. What I mean is this: I can't account for every matchup, so having only 8 cards to bring in against my bad matchups is ok to me. I also want to be able to tip the close matchups in my favor as well.

EDIT: Here is the top 8 from the tournament, the winner was my Elves opponent.

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19457&f=LE

Also, has anybody every tried a 4-Color Nic Fit variant? I know, sacrilege, but I'd love to put my Punishing Fires to work. I think red offers some really decent sideboard cards as well. There's no way I'm giving up on Siege Rhino, so just curious if anyone has tried 4 colors.

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I tend to like 4C Fit to just crush with 3 Blood Moons and a From the Ashes/Boil, when I can.

I was hoping to mash in pfire/groves and kcommand, actually. I don't feel the need for moons at all.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I was hoping to mash in pfire/groves and kcommand, actually. I don't feel the need for moons at all.

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Blood moon is an instant win button against the current best deck in the meta. It slows down combo decks also.

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Originally Posted by Matsu

Blood moon is an instant win button against the current best deck in the meta. It slows down combo decks also.

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Nic Fit seems ok already against Grixis Delver/Czech Pile. I would rather have something that dealt with stuff like D&T, Elves, and other small dork style decks.