[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

When you have a bubble match, you end up always playing your worst matchup?

Sitting at the middle of 4-2's in round 7 looking for cashing out, I'm thinking I'm playing against Maverick. I therapy on the draw for Knight of the Reliquary... and I see: Double Glimpse of Nature, Gaea's Cradle, Wirewood Symbiote, Quiron Ranger, and Elvish Visionary.

I'm like. oh. Well. This is a poor way to start G1.

Hits me with a single 30/30 Craterhoof. Any time I look at elves, i just get trampled. I saw some 15/15's get natural ordered in. Overwhelmingly bad things happen.

So, after realizing that I have little game with elves in my shell, I was wondering if anyone else has better luck at improving their matchup, or is it just generally that bad slash nigh unwinnable? Arcane Laboratory showed up in the second match, but next turn he just went natural order, craterhoof. It's just like regardless of the effects of hate I can provide, if I'm not able to find an angle to disrupt them that does anything.

Welp ... went 2-4 drop today with this list

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Timbermare
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Brainstorm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacomb
3 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dryad Arbor
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
///
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Thoughtseize
2 Trinket Mage
1 AEther Spellbomb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

Match 1 vs. Brian on Mono Pox (2-0)
-Game 1 Nothing I can remember. Game 2 he gets 2 Maze of Iths on board but i grind him out with Deathrite Shamans

Match 2 vs. Tim on Jund Elves! (0-2)
- Got a game loss for game 1 because i didnt list cabal therapy on my decklist. Game 2 I keep a decent hand for fair decks and bang my head on the table when he hits me for lethal on turn 4

Match 3 vs. Mark on Reanimator (0-2)
- Cant remember much other than Griselbrand doing it's thang

Match 4 vs. Nick on Tin Fins (1-2)
- Game 2 I get the nut hate with Nihil and Needle on Griselbrand. Game 3 I get cocky with Surgical Extraction, which meets a Pact of Negation followed by 22 in the air

Match 5 vs. Joe on Punishing Jund (2-0)
-Not much to say other than that this matchup was grindy as hell

Match 6 vs. Robert on Tin Fins (1-2)
-Pretty much a deja vu of round 4: got nut hate and grinded him out game 2, and bet too much on Surgical and got hit with 22 in the air

Notes:
- Double check decklists: you never know when you could get a game loss against combo
- Speaking of combo, combo hell is brutal against Nic Fit
- Trinket Mage is too slow and Timbermare really needs to be ifh-biff efreet
- Surgical is good until it gets challenged
- Deathrite Shaman is awesome against random Mazes of Ith
- Take better notes next time

As part of deciding what to cut for aven mindcensors, I made a chart to look at which of my utlility creatures significantly impact the gameplan of some of the top decks. Do you guys think this is correct? Did I miss anything or add anything incorrectly?

Spirit of the Labyrinth (MB)

A bunch of decks a little bit
UW miracles
BUG shardless
Elves
Sneak & show
Storm
Reanimator

Aven Mindcensor

Most decks a little bit
UWR delver
Stoneblade
Elves
Storm

Gaddock Teeg (MB)

UW miracles
Elves
Storm

Ethersworn Canonist (SB)

Elves
Storm

Necroplasm (SB)

Death & taxes
UR delver
RUG delver
Merfolk
BUG delver
Elves
Dredge

Harmonic Sliver (SB)

Death & taxes
MUD
Painter

Orzhov Pontiff (SB)

Death & taxes
UR delver
Stoneblade
BUG delver
Elves

Humility (SB)

MUD
Elves
Sneak & show
Reanimator

Nether Void (SB)

Burn
Sneak & show
Elves
Storm
Reanimator

So essentially what I think I'll do is move teeg to the sideboard, cut harmonic sliver and put a mindcensor in the main. I really would like to move necroplasm back to the main but my main is very tight atm. Also I kind of wanna cut canonist but I really need permanent hate vs. storm.

So with the changes my list would look like:

1 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Birthing Pod
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Academy Rector
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Sun Titan
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Restoration Angel
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sylvan Ranger
2 Spike Feeder
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Batterskull
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 1 Nether Void
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Memoricide
SB: 1 Cranial Extraction
SB: 1 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Idyllic Tutor
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Necroplasm

Blind naming with CT is just not right unless you know what your up against. Just play veteran explorer T2 followed up by Cast CT/flash CT. You end up with the same effect, have more info from their T1, and see an extra card that the opponent played which maximizes the effect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Except you don't get to hit their T1 play, which could be quite important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ish

Blind naming with CT is just not right unless you know what your up against. Just play veteran explorer T2 followed up by Cast CT/flash CT. You end up with the same effect, have more info from their T1, and see an extra card that the opponent played which maximizes the effect.

---

But what if you don't have a veteran explorer? What if it's a DRS or a Baleful Strix, or a 2 drop, or a turn 2 play that isn't Veteran Explorer? You don't necessarily have the ability or the want to have to sacrifice DRS. Make your first CT count. But if they have brainstorm, it's pretty likely you won't if you wait. The more time passes, the less valuable CT becomes. I'm just not entirely sure that it's not not right to blind name something. You have the initiative, you're then reducing their ability to navigate around it if you lead with CT->Brainstorm. If you just pass, you may know more, but you can just be brainstorm hosed the rest of the time.

I mean, in magic christmas land when you have VE/CT hands, that's one thing, but there's plenty more situations outside of that.

If Brainstorm is their T1 play, you've officially punished them for keeping a hand that they're relying on Brainstorm to gas themselves out of.

Very tilt-inducing weekend. Here's a high-level gloss of the event:

r1 vs Rock (won't say Junk....was a very control build with multiple maindeck vindicates, no goyfs, lily+souls, etc)

G1 I keep PhyTower, Gavony, Plains, Forest, Rector, [card], [card]. He goes double Wasteland into Vindicate your Plains into a third Wasteland after mulling to 6. Real.
G2 I mull to 5, keeping land, land, Explorer, Batterskull, Thune. He STP my Explorer, I go runner runner runner land land land, drop Batterskull. He Vindicates it. Draw Deed, blow up his world, drop Thune, he Vindicates that too. Rip Primeval Titan and stabilize ftw.
G3 we get into a convoluted board state where he draws all 4 of his Souls, but needs to use them as chumpers vs my board of Yosei, Primeval, and Batterskull. Eventually get to the point where I deed away his tokens, nug him for a lot, and then sac Yosei to tap out his remaining blockers to clear the way for the kill just as time is called.

r2 vs Shardless (never saw a FoW, not sure if one of the new FoWless builds or not)

He mentions that he beat BUG Pod r1 (I'm assuming tadiou). spoilers: I avenge my fallen comrade

G1 he curves out with double Visions and an aggressive clock while I draw land after land after land. I think I ended the game with 7 or 8 lands in play and another 2 in hand.
G2 I assemble Thune + Spike Weaver vs his double Goyf + TNN with Jitte board. Thune flies over for the victory as he has no answer for the Spike fogging every turn.
G3 I don't recall, but it's bad for him.

Yay I'm 2-0 and finally having a good day at a non-local event for the first time since November......

r3 vs UWR Blade (control, no delvers)

G1 he has triple bolt (out of 3 in his deck) + 2x snapcaster with a Jace bounce to rebuy one. Real.
G2 he has double TNN vs my Thune with a Batterskull on it. I'm winning the race easily. He drops clique with a Karakas out. I'm annoyed, but Therapy the clique away and present lethal next turn. He fetches, swings, Brainstorms, and passes. I attempt to kill him. He found the 2nd of 2 cliques in his deck with his Brainstorm, and kills me next turn. Real.

r4 vs UWR Delver

Kid's first legacy event.

G1 he peels his 1-outer to kill me one turn from death. This is after earlier in the game I Mindcensor his Stoneforge and he finds his Jitte in the top 4 anyway.
G2 He has 5 lands in play with no non-land permanents and no cards in hand. I have 27 life, 2 Carpets, Mirari's Wake, Diabolic Intent in hand, and 7 or 8 lands. He rips Batterskull. I go land, land, Carpet, land, land, Therapy, land, land dead. Fucking real.

r5 vs Scapewish

G1 he doesn't use lube.
G2 I have a Mindcensor with a Batterskull on it after Cranialing his Burning Wishes.
G3 I Therapy double Wish, Cranial his Scapeshifts, and have the Archangel/Feeder combo in hand to drop in 1-shot on the following turn. He Tops after my Cranial and finds one of his 2 remaining Burning Wishes to kill me for exactsies the turn before he dies (I was at 18). Real.

Note: to be fair to myself here, this one was a little bit of bad luck but also a punt on my part. I had Diabolic Intented for the Cranial, which was a misplay. I should've Intented for Mindcensor instead, since that would have served the same purpose in that scenario (goal: not die to scapeshift, untap and win) but it would've actually prevented his outs rather than just preventing half of them via Cranial.

I drop out of complete frustration and go test standard with one of our car while we wait for our last member to die. I proceed to lose with double a Master of the Feast draw vs RUG Monsters because he has all 4 Stormbreath Dragons. Even when just playtesting, real.

Literally not allowed to do well on Saturday in anything. I expected to get in a car accident on the way home (thankfully, we made it back safe and sound).

Thoughts on the list, bad luck notwithstanding:

More focus is probably needed. Batterskull continues to WILDLY overperform, and continues to be one of the main reasons I want to play white versions. Boarding in 3 Carpet + 2 Batterskull vs blue decks is gross and unfair, and I love it. Thune-the-card continues to be a house as well. Weaver continues to be awesome and hilarious. Rector terrified a few people throughout the day, and served as a Moat vs Shardless because he was too scared to attack into it. Didn't play vs combo so I can't say how that would've been, but I mean, it's not like I didn't have ample hate.

Mindcensor is an interesting case. I didn't really get any value from him maindeck, but I don't know how much of that is just because I had rotten luck and people always found what they were looking for. They were obviously the nuts vs Scapewish, and probably would've won me that match if I hadn't been stupid in g3. Aside from that...I dunno. I didn't play vs anything that they were really -meant- for. They probably are more of a sideboard card realistically, but that's awkward in and of itself because there's only so much sideboard space.

Unsure of where I'm going from here. Assuming I make it up to Mythic for legacy this Saturday upcoming, I'll likely be on Scape since there's been a rash of Eric English inspired Food Chain decks running around there and I like the idea of Slaughter Gamesing Food Chain.

In reality, it really just comes down to whether you're on the play or the draw and whether you're against combo or tempo/attrition decks.

On the draw, that first land and play can give you plenty of information to be accurate with Therapy. On the play, best bet is always Brainstorm unless you are sure of what the opponent is playing. Against combo however, being on the draw is pretty suicidal: against Tin Fins both times yesterday I whiffed a few times with Therapy on Dark Ritual (panic moment on my part). Fair decks can't do much to kill ya too quickly, so being on the draw is as detrimental.

I believe it's not as important to hit with a blind Therapy as it is to have a viable contingency plan when you do whiff: that is, a creature to flashback Therapy if against combo or something viable against fair decks. Of course, my advice doesn't exactly mean jack XD.

Anyhow, on another subject, would y'all consider Nightshade Peddler + Scattershot Archer in your 75? Each have their own uses, but combined they can handle a variety of threats such as Entreat, Emrakul, and Griselbrand.

EDIT: Nic report, btw Arianrhod: good to know I'm not the only one who decided to keep going despite bombing ^_^

My day ended up being pretty similar.

R1 was vs Arianrhod's R2. Shardless Bug.

Never saw an FoW either. Which was okay, I suppose, but he just got ridiculously fast hands and hit with Hymn better than... well. I could believe. He T1 Thoughseizes my deed. His turn 4 (on the play), I have a pod on the table, deathrite shaman in the yard (after an abrupt decay), 4 cards in hand, 2 lands, 2 creatures, and he hymns both creatures I could have cast next turn. His Shardless Agents all hit creatures. I'm thinking to myself. Well. That's not going to go well. I was feeling rather confident about the Shardless matchup before this, but that was like, dropping the boom on me. G2 wasn't any better. Wipes my board. Rips my threats. Shardless into Tarmogoyf, Shardless into Baleful Strix into Tarmogoyf. It was just... not particularly fun. (0-2)

R2 was the first of my 3 burn matchups against a local of mine named Justin. But really, who plays 3 burn decks in 8 rounds? IS THIS THE FATE OF THE LOSERS BRACKET?

Fortunately I do think I play one of the scarier decks for Burn to face. Game 1 I stabilzed with what my notes look like a Thragtusk followed by a Kitchen Finks (5 -> 10 -> 12? That's what it looks like to me). Game 2 I got crushed by an Eidolon of the Great Revel. Card is actually really legit. It's legitimately a scary card to play against if you're not maindecking a lot of removal or countermagic (and even then, you're still opening yourself up to other nasty cards). G3 though was probably one of my sweeter plays, after getting t1 therapy seeing 3 chain lightnings on the play, i get explorer, and nab the othe two. My opponent had a Great Revel in play and was at 6 life, and I was pretty positive that he drew a Flame Rift because he had this awful look on his face, and I was like, what Justin? Did you draw a flame rift and can't play it because you'd kill yourself and not me? He did. I was at 9 life. He slowly whittled me down, and I got a deed on board (with a Pod), and had a DRS in play, and I did something I haven't actually done before. My opponent had a Sulfuric Vortex in play (the one where you can't gain life), and I had a Kitchen Finks and Thragtusk in hand, and was at 1 life. I activated my DRS, held priority, activated Deed for 3, let deed resolve first, DRS resolved second, Gained 2 life, played Kitchen Finks. Played Thragtusk. Won that game. (2-1)

R3 was against Junk
Nothing special. Crushed both games pretty easily. I can see by my notes I got low on life and then just grabbed a Thragtusk, cloned it. Got a Grave Titan and then attacked. Games like that are most enjoyable.

R4 was against Burn part 2. Fluffy haired Quebecois. I didn't catch his name because his last name took up the entire space on pairings list. (2-0)

Game 1 my keep was terrible... against burn. It was a fine hand against pretty much any other deck that wasn't burn (or elves), but, I don't think I even got him past 18 life. Didn't attack, was constantly on the defensive. G2 I fan my hand to this guy I was talking to earlier in the day, and I'm like, yeah. This is a thing. Explorer, 2 lands, Therapy, Pod, Kitchen Finks, Thragtusk. I got to 5 life, played around Price of Progress a lot. But got there. G3 was an awful 7, and a not very good six. Fetchland, 3 deathrite shaman, brainstorm, kitchen finks. I didn't see another land. I beat myself a bit up about keeping that, but he was also on the goblin guide plan, and I saw nothing in that brainstorm t2. Slow painful death. It wasn't like he just had a great hand, but after 3-4 GG triggers, and not a single land I was like. PACK IT IN. (1-2)

R5 was against Burn part 3. Now I'm sitting at 2-2, and am just like. eh. might as well keep going. I can't leave anyway (because I gave the HJ a ride there).

Interesting build playing ensnaring bridges. I held like 3 or 4 nonbasics in hand that I drew just because I knew he was on the Price of Progress path 2 of the games. And indeed he did smack me for 10 one game with it (game 3). Game 2 I made a really eh misplay. I was at 7 life, I had lethal on board. I had pod in play, I could have gone to 5, and podded Kitchen Finks to Glen Elendra and have 1 blue up in case of like... anything. He rips a fireblast off the top and deals me exacties. I was like, Well. I deserve that. He had a like 3 outer. G3 I was pretty much in control of it all the time. Was able to gain a bunch of life, the MB Volrath's Stronghold & Viridian Corrupter were both super solid in this matchup. Also was totally able to see his hand in his sunglasses. I thought that was moderately amusing. (2-1)

R6 was against Grixis

He mulls to 4 and 5, and I'm playing him, and he doesn't really have any sort of game against me either way. Like, even if he kept a 7, I think his deck just doesn't do enough against me to get there. At one point I remember him complaining "this is legacy, why am I doing combat math"? I think I had 4 zombie tokens on the table. When that happens, just remember kids: good things happen to those who have lots of zombies on their side. (2-0)

And now I'm sitting middle of the pack at 4-2 with 12 points thinking, oh, I can possibly cash out here. I could actually use a badland or two.

R7 vs Elves.

Nope. Nope. Nope. I talked about it previously. Just had wrong everything. Admittedly, I don't test a lot vs Elves (not a ton around me, although Boettcher was on it today, he doesn't play locally anymore). Just was all levels of SEND HELP. (0-2)

Thought to myself. I got 1 more round to play, might as well play the final round, go to a local bar where my friend was playing a show, and call it. It was way too late to get into a side event.

R8 vs Death and Taxes

Why can't I get this matchup more? G1 I hit double revoker on CT. He gets a slow clock. I stablize. Game take 30 minutes. I'm up 1-0. I'm like. DRIVERS SEAT! YES. G2 provided one really interesting line of play, and similar to one in G1. Both regarding legendary creatures, karakas, vial and cabal therapy. I've been keeping him off of Mangara getting active for a turn by throwing pressure on it. He had a Grafdigger's Cage in play. I had birthing pod in play and a Cabal Therapy in hand and one in the yard. I cast Viridian Corrupter, and in response (which was a little weird), he puts Mangara into play. I think then, okay, so if I take the Vial, I can't actually deal with Mangara again, and he can Karakas it indefinitely. That's bad. If I take the Grafdiggers Cage, I can pod Corrupter into Murderous Redcap and force him off of Mangara again, which he Karakas's. I don't have enough mana to cast Cabal Therapy (due to Thalia), but I do have a Phyrexian Tower in play (which the interaction of the two cards is extremely valueble). I pass the turn, he draws a land, and I'm like. Booyeah. Draw for turn. Cast Cabal Therapy, in response he Vials in Mangara, with Therapy still on the stack, I activate Phyrexian Tower, Redcap persists, comes back into play and marks 1 damage on Mangara and he tanks. I'm sitting there admiring my handywork, and he's thinking of an out. About 3 minutes go by and there's about 8 minutes on the clock left. He Karakas's Mangara back to his hand and Therapy resolves naming Mangara of Corondor. The amount of resources I had to use to get rid of that card is absolutely ridiculous, it's also one of the better cards in the matchup... I eventually pod the Redcap into Shriekmaw, kill the Thalia, he plays his other Thalia, I pod my DRS into Phantasmal Image copying Shriekmaw. I probably should have had the judge called on me at this point and time because it was rather unclear what I was doing. I lay the Image on top of Shriekmaw, implying that I'm copying Shriekmaw, and say targeting Thalia. It was confusing because Image doesn't target (so why would I be saying targeting), and I was naming a target. Just a weird shortcut of pointing and talking where your opponent was like. I don't know what your doing... Phantasmal Image targeting Thalia with a Karakas in play isn't usually a good play (unless you're going to Abrupt Decay their legendary in response to the target). Eventually he gets it worked out. I pod the image away next turn into Grave Titan and beat him on turn 1 in extra time.

Cards that were very good to me:
- Thassa was great in the grindy matchups that I wasn't necessarily winning (but was still generally ahead), but it really reads 2U: Enchantment - Scry 1 during your upkeep, 1U: Target creature's unblockable. If I wasn't playing Thassa, I'd probably play AEtherling because of the ability to be unblockable is huge. Usually I get Thassa + Thragtusk and that carries a lot of value.
Cards that I reconsidered:
- Pestermite. I really enjoy the ability to make my 2 drops into 4 drops. That's a real powerful live ability against a lot of decks to turn a Baleful Strix into a Murderous Redcap or Glen Elendra Archmage... but it's a lacking card otherwise. I didn't play a single delver deck, and that's probably a reason why I felt it underperformed from my expectations.
- Doomwake Giant. Cute but still probably not as good as another Golgari Charm. I thought it would be, because I really feel the need for more beaters, but, I don't know if that's the case.
Card I wanted:
- More lifegain (seriously). I don't actually want a 2nd Thragtusk, but after seeing 3 burn decks in 8 rounds, I was praying for it every match. Card just literally caused every deck I played problems.
- Engineered Plague. Didn't play 1 in my 75, but I want to name Elves. Goblins. Humans (vs D&T, as it nukes Mangara, Thalia, Mom). Wizard (it's a card vs Clique/Snapcaster decks).

I'm increasingly a fan of the 2nd Thragtusk, or, where not appropriate, running/sideboarding the pair of Batterskulls. Usually all that we need to win the game is time. The games we lose are those where we get aggro'd out before we can stabilize into doing bigger things than our opponents while they have empty hands. There's also some small percentage of games where we get combo'd out too quickly or where we mull into oblivion / get varianced, which happens with any deck.

You're on a bunch of Deathrites (3 or 4), and you have the Pods. Doomwake might be better served as an Orzhov Pontiff, with your plan being to just cheat on the white mana via DRS if you draw or it, or Pod if you don't. It's a more powerful effect than Doomwake since you can do it reliably twice (thanks to Nic Fit's sac outlets) and since it's a 3-drop -- and thus castable/poddable while it still matters. There may also be scenarios where you can fire it off twice in a turn, wrathing your opponent's Delvers/DRS/etc.

Shardless is a strange matchup vs us. It's usually overwhelmingly positive for us, but they can randomly hurt us very badly and carry the game from there. I can see BUG Pod having a rougher time than other versions, though.

When you disrupt the engine enough, it's easy to outtempo your opponent. That's pretty much what happened to the worst degree in that match, it's been a very good matchup for me in the past month (going 7-2 vs most flavors of BUG), but this one felt like I was optionless and generally very very behind. That's kinda how it goes with that deck though.

I might end up trying the Pontiff, but I get nervous with it in the same way I feel when I had Rector in my deck. Pontiff fits considerably better in the curve though where I'm looking than Doomwake does and is less cute, but it's just the fear of uncastable cards gets me. If I ran a GSZ, that'd probably be better as I'd have an actual way to get a DRS in play to actually cast it. If I could get a 4 color shell together, it'd be easier, but its not the easiest thing to fit all that together. I saw a Melira pod combo on SCG stream once, but I couldn't find the list, and they were definitely in the 4 color realm, where I'd template off that base.

Additionally: The 4 nic fit players all paired up next to each other (or against each other) was kind of ridiculous.

In my experience the shardless BUG matchup is good for BUG Pod, but Hymn is one of their best cards against us. Basically, if both players get to do what they want, Pod will come out way ahead, and Hymn is their best way to keep that from happening, since Pod is a bit more reliant on certain synergies. For that reason I usually name either Hymn or Shardless Agent with Therapy against that deck.

I really like Orzhov Pontiff and tried out splashing for it in BUG Pod for a while. Sometimes it was great, sometimes it didn't do much. Ultimately I concluded that the cost of adding a 4th color wasn't worth the upside of having access to pontiff. It made delver machups worse, and the strength of those matchups is a big reason to play this deck in the first place.

To Tadiou,

I'm currently in the process of building Bug Pod (have all but three of the Force of Wills online but still need most of the deck in paper), so I'm just getting started with it. It's a blast when you can get the Birthing Pod chain going, but the deck is complex and I often feel that I lose games that I could have won had I made other decisions (which I suppose is true of any deck). In any case, would you mind posting your list? (Or directing me to where you've already posted it?)

Thanks,
gigapatrick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gigapatrick

To Tadiou,

I'm currently in the process of building Bug Pod (have all but three of the Force of Wills online but still need most of the deck in paper), so I'm just getting started with it. It's a blast when you can get the Birthing Pod chain going, but the deck is complex and I often feel that I lose games that I could have won had I made other decisions (which I suppose is true of any deck). In any case, would you mind posting your list? (Or directing me to where you've already posted it?)

Thanks,
gigapatrick

---

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post808570

That's the list I ran over the weekend. I don't actually play Forces though (which I'd suppose would be a boon for you online, because... y'know. forces). I'm fine without playing forces (as I do think the configuration as is does play pretty well to combo), if you see considerably more combo than I do (about 10-15%), then I'd probably want to actually run Forces. But the best defense is a combination of hate when it comes to Combo. I don't think you have to go with playing forcesIt's a lot of reps. to have a game vs combo. Glen Elendra Archmage is the stone nuts against every combo deck but Elves & Painter. If you can disrupt them to the point where you can get one in play, you're so far ahead. I also really do like Swan Song over Envelop if you're not playing Force/Pilferer.

Hardcasting Mindbreak Trap is an option, and a very good one against Abrupt Decay, which the Storm Combo lists usually are bringing in now, if you happen to have an Arcane Labs out. Where I think you're a little weaker to SnS decks in the sense that you're dead to the right combination of top decks, Arcane Labs is also good in that matchup because it values your countermagic to theirs 1 to 1. I think PVDR had a nugget on that i/r/t how Miracles should be fighting that that's relevant to how we would.

so my clan of fellow nic fitters any way we can make kruphix god of the horizons good

not anymore than we can make Nylea, Erberos, or Pharika work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tadiou

not anymore than we can make Nylea, Erberos, or Pharika work.

---

lol atleast erabos is greed with legs

Thanks, tadiou. I like the Arcane Labs a whole lot; I might try them out myself. Since I'm new to the deck, I checked out David Gleicher's variations, the first of which ran three Thoughtseize and three Swan Song. After that, he switched to four Force and two Envelop, which I haven't been able to try since I'm still in the middle of acquiring the Forces. I just want to be able to assemble both versions so I can figure out which I like better. I definitely like the idea of Thassa, and even of Pestermite (which seems like an analog to Caleb Durward's Deceiver Exarch version, though Pestermite just seems better to me), but why are you running Viridian Corrupter over Uktabi Orangutan? The fact that he deals infect damage seems like it could really screw up the plan. Also, can you clarify what you said about Miracles? Anyway, thanks again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tons of fun

lol atleast erabos is greed with legs

---

The problem is is that it's extremely hard to actually turn on Erabos. The easiest one, by far, would be Nylea, but she's not very good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gigapatrick

Thanks, tadiou. I like the Arcane Labs a whole lot; I might try them out myself. Since I'm new to the deck, I checked out David Gleicher's variations, the first of which ran three Thoughtseize and three Swan Song. After that, he switched to four Force and two Envelop, which I haven't been able to try since I'm still in the middle of acquiring the Forces. I just want to be able to assemble both versions so I can figure out which I like better. I definitely like the idea of Thassa, and even of Pestermite (which seems like an analog to Caleb Durward's Deceiver Exarch version, though Pestermite just seems better to me), but why are you running Viridian Corrupter over Uktabi Orangutan? The fact that he deals infect damage seems like it could really screw up the plan. Also, can you clarify what you said about Miracles? Anyway, thanks again.

---

Maybe it wasn't who I thought it was? I don't know.

Either way, with Arcane Labs, you're able to 1-for-1 Sneak and Show's countermagic. They cast a spell, you can counter it. They can't counter it back. Now, the problem with the plan is that they tend to bring in Leyline vs you, but you have multiple angles of actually disrupting them, so if they mulligan to find protection vs discard (which isn't as good post-board, but still necessary), you're generally ahead. Cards I like to bring in vs SnT is pretty much the whole board. Every card is good against them.

Look at Svknoe's List from GP Paris
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...ar14/welcome#0

2 Envelop
4 Force of Will
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Golgari Charm
1 Pernicious Deed
3 Riptide Pilferer
1 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

Pretty much everything but Deed & Jitte are good vs Show and Tell. Bring in 13 cards. Call it a day. Playing with Arcane Labs allows you to have a similar approach to countermagic without the negative interactions of playing with Forces because you're usually going to just be trading 1 for 1 vs SnT deck in the counterspell arena. Their strength is they have what? 12 counterspells post board. Now, they won't want all of them, because, hey, we're a creature based deck, we're not going to be throwing countermagic everywhere. And, that's what's going to get them into trouble. They'll find room for Grafdiggers cages vs Glen Elendra and such.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gigapatrick

Thanks, tadiou. I like the Arcane Labs a whole lot; I might try them out myself. Since I'm new to the deck, I checked out David Gleicher's variations, the first of which ran three Thoughtseize and three Swan Song. After that, he switched to four Force and two Envelop, which I haven't been able to try since I'm still in the middle of acquiring the Forces. I just want to be able to assemble both versions so I can figure out which I like better. I definitely like the idea of Thassa, and even of Pestermite (which seems like an analog to Caleb Durward's Deceiver Exarch version, though Pestermite just seems better to me), but why are you running Viridian Corrupter over Uktabi Orangutan? The fact that he deals infect damage seems like it could really screw up the plan. Also, can you clarify what you said about Miracles? Anyway, thanks again.

---

Thoughtseize/Swan Song and Force/Pilferer/Envelop each have their merits. The advantage of thoughtseize/swan song is it's a bit more compact, leaving you more room for other things in the sideboard. I find that I have the room though, so I don't mind devoting the SB slots to what I consider an overall better anti-combo package. I know Svenkoe and I have been impressed with Pilferer, and I find it especially good against Sneak and Show. It does have the downside of not actually being good against certain combo decks (elves, dredge, reanimator) which can strain the number of blue cards for FOW if you board them in. So I can definitely see an argument for a thoughtseize/swan song board in that case.

As for Miracles, if anyone can come up with a plan to actually make the matchup favorable, I'd be thrilled. I think it is pretty bad and I've tried all sorts of things with only moderate success. Currently the best anti-miracles board plan I've come up with is to board in:

1 Aetherling
3 Riptide Pilferer (I think potentially making them lose a card is more valuable than us drawing a card off strix, plus a 2/2 morph can be relevant to pressure a jace)
2 Envelop
4 Force of Will
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Pithing Needle

For veteran explorers, cabal therapies, shriekmaw, some baleful strixs, Fleshbag marauder if it's main, and maybe scavenging ooze? Even though Phantasmal Image is kind of awkward against them, I think it is good to keep it just for the upside of potentially copying a glen elendra with it.

Miracles is the one reason I'd run AEtherling. If you can get it into play (which is a thing), they're basically dead if you have the following: open blue mana, pernicious deed in play, AEtherling in play.

The other thing is Glen Elendra is a h-o-u-s-e, along with Recurring Nightmare. Image gets a decent amount of work done too. Your graveyard becomes another tool to get board presence fast.

My board plan vs Miracles is: Venser, Glen Elendra, Revoker, Golgari Charm (x2), Swan Song (x2) and sometimes Mindbreak Trap. Usually it's all about sticking a Pod, and riding it up the chain. A second Thragtusk is also good. Resolved Thragtusks = Constant Pressure.

Thanks for clarifying. I was wondering what Aetherling was doing in Gleicher's list. I think I'll have to pack one in my board, since Miracles is a real thing. Also, I totally forgot to ask: you were at SCG Cincy?

If you're going to run AEtherling, run it instead of Grave Titan, not in the Board. Like was mentioned previously, it's good in the board, but if you're trying to save space, put it in the main. AEtherling's really good, but it's main downfall is not being able to crowd the board and create blockers (and the Deathtouch is absolutely relevant), but I don't know how relevant it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tadiou

If you're going to run AEtherling, run it instead of Grave Titan, not in the Board. Like was mentioned previously, it's good in the board, but if you're trying to save space, put it in the main. AEtherling's really good, but it's main downfall is not being able to crowd the board and create blockers (and the Deathtouch is absolutely relevant), but I don't know how relevant it is.

---

I've considered this move many times but never pulled the trigger on it. The thing that keeps me from doing it is remembering all the games where I got a Grave Titan (sometimes "going off" with it and Recurring Nightmare) and the possibility of the opponent racing me was immediately shut down. Would they have been able to race an Aetherling in those situations? I'm never exactly sure. Anyways, if you try it with the Aetherling let us know when/if you would have preferred it to be Grave Titan.

Not sure if you were asking me, but I was not at SCG Cincy.

I like Aetherling as a control finisher for things like bugstill or even a mirror breaker for Deathblade....but not in Nic Fit. I think that we can do a lot better, personally.

A bit out of nowhere but, anybody tried Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in the Scapewish lists?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by conboy31

Only about 2 players out of 535 playing nic-fit at the on going BoM (http://www.twitch.tv/bazaar_of_moxen , http://www.bazaar-of-moxen.com/en/index.html). Not sure how much info will be gleaned from this event.

---

I was one of the two NicFit players (played BUG Pod), but failed hard. Met reanimate r1 and show and tell r2 both with nut draws, so I dropped pretty fast and played Vintage instead.
To bad since i had a good feel about the deck against the field.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raindrainxi

A bit out of nowhere but, anybody tried Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in the Scapewish lists?

---

Yeah, I tried it right after it came out. It's horrible, don't bother. Scapewish has too many noncreature spells -- Ruric ends up hurting us as much as the opponent. He's also smaller than most Goyfs, so he gets stonewalled pretty easily, and anyone playing white has the option to Karakas it -- or, more damningly, to use their Karakas to control Ruric such that he only hurts us and not them.

-Maybe- in some kind of Natural Order based build, because then it'd actually be fast enough to get out in time to matter vs combo, but Scape isn't that deck.

I have played some more with my BUG pod list and I really like it. My only problem is that the deck is sloooooooooooooow and I would like to add proper finisher against a variety of decks that protects itself. Sigarda would fit this role perfectly, but I quite like not having any uncastable cards, so I'm looking for some sort of replacement. Currently I'm pondering over Kodama of the North Tree and I was wondering if anyone has some experience with this card or some alternatives? Preferably I look for a 5-drop or lower CMC. My other 5-drops are Thragtusk and Acidic Slime, the last one I grew to like quite a bit. Basically I'm cutting a ponder (great Card btw!) for this slot of which I'm not much of a fan. Maybe I will throw out the Acidic slime again and test this setup, but for now I'd like to test an extra finisher. I do not consider Thrun a proper finisher, as it takes him way too long to kill a player as they can so easily chump him, buying themselves plenty of time to find an answer.

On the 3-drops, True-Name Nemesis keeps to perform great and is one of my main kill conditions at the moment. I suppose this is also very playstyle dependent, but it is definitely one of the strongest cards in my deck. Worth a shot!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UseLess

I have played some more with my BUG pod list and I really like it. My only problem is that the deck is sloooooooooooooow and I would like to add proper finisher against a variety of decks that protects itself. Sigarda would fit this role perfectly, but I quite like not having any uncastable cards, so I'm looking for some sort of replacement. Currently I'm pondering over Kodama of the North Tree and I was wondering if anyone has some experience with this card or some alternatives? Preferably I look for a 5-drop or lower CMC. My other 5-drops are Thragtusk and Acidic Slime, the last one I grew to like quite a bit. Basically I'm cutting a ponder (great Card btw!) for this slot of which I'm not much of a fan. Maybe I will throw out the Acidic slime again and test this setup, but for now I'd like to test an extra finisher. I do not consider Thrun a proper finisher, as it takes him way too long to kill a player as they can so easily chump him, buying themselves plenty of time to find an answer.

On the 3-drops, True-Name Nemesis keeps to perform great and is one of my main kill conditions at the moment. I suppose this is also very playstyle dependent, but it is definitely one of the strongest cards in my deck. Worth a shot!

---

The deck is slow... really most of the lists are pretty slow and grindy because it gives you the best chance to gain advantage over your fair opponents with incremental advantage that a deck that puts more pressure out may not be able to get.

Proper finishers? Most of the BUG Pod decks play Grave Titan, and for good reason. It's 10 power on the board. Kodama doesn't provide any value, and isn't nearly as strong of a finisher as Grave Titan, having any sort of value when a card ETB's is very very important along all stages, and a 6/4 vanilla beater just isn't worth it. Thragtusk is as good of a beater as any other card in the deck.

Quote:

---

Preferably I look for a 5-drop or lower CMC

---

But why? If you're playing Pod, why are you adament about a 5 cmc or lower? If you have a few paths to a 6 cmc, you shouldn't be afraid of a 6 CMC card. If you're concerned about a lot of chump blocks, play Thassa.

I've also had pretty poor experiences with TNN, except in the rare case I copy my opponents TNN and can race them with it.

As to the BUG pod/miracles matchup, I'm thinking about adding a single Taiga to the main for access to a red blast and a pair of slaughter games in the board. Thoughts? Red blast can't be brought in versus wasteland decks, and slaughter games is kind of narrow, but they both seem pretty rad against jace decks, which this deck struggles with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by firebadmattgood

As to the BUG pod/miracles matchup, I'm thinking about adding a single Taiga to the main for access to a red blast and a pair of slaughter games in the board. Thoughts? Red blast can't be brought in versus wasteland decks, and slaughter games is kind of narrow, but they both seem pretty rad against jace decks, which this deck struggles with.

---

I had similar thoughts myself. A red splash in Bug Pod lists could enable Red Blast and Slaughter Games in the board, which would be good not only against Miracles but Combo as well. I think it could be doable, and I suppose between 8 green fetches, a singleton Taiga, and 4 Deathrite Shaman you'd probably have the red when you needed it. You could forgo the Force of Will / Envelop / Riptide Pilferer board plan, which would be easier on the wallet but maybe not as effective.

My board would be:

1 venser
2 clique
1 envelop
1 swan song
1 flusterstorm
2 golgari charm
4 force
1 red blast
2 slaughter games

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by firebadmattgood

My board would be:

1 venser
2 clique
1 envelop
1 swan song
1 flusterstorm
2 golgari charm
4 force
1 red blast
2 slaughter games

---

I think I'd want more Red Blasts and / or Pyroblasts in the board. I mean, if you're dropping a fetch or a usable dual maindeck for an essentially nonbasic forest (which is all Taiga would be before boarding), I'd want access to a few more Blast effects. Not sure what to cut for them though. Still new to the deck.

No tournament tonight because of Mother's Day, but I did happen to play one of my most feared matchups at my LGS last night: Burn. Surprisingly, it's fairly even depending on how well we stabilize and how well they top deck gas. You'd be surprised how damning a Thragtusk is to them, and how far Ooze and Deathrite can carry ya until then.

We played two matches, going 2-0 first match and 1-2 second match. The key difference between the two? Goblin Guide was never seen in the first match at all, and he had double Goblin Guide first and third games of the second match.

I sided out 4x Deed, Tabernacle, and Wickerbough and brought in 4x Thoughtseize and 2x Slaughter Games (I have a strong feeling Slaughter Games is reason enough to splash a singleton Taiga in the main) both times. Any thoughts on this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

No tournament tonight because of Mother's Day, but I did happen to play one of my most feared matchups at my LGS last night: Burn. Surprisingly, it's fairly even depending on how well we stabilize and how well they top deck gas. You'd be surprised how damning a Thragtusk is to them, and how far Ooze and Deathrite can carry ya until then.

We played two matches, going 2-0 first match and 1-2 second match. The key difference between the two? Goblin Guide was never seen in the first match at all, and he had double Goblin Guide first and third games of the second match.

I sided out 4x Deed, Tabernacle, and Wickerbough and brought in 4x Thoughtseize and 2x Slaughter Games (I have a strong feeling Slaughter Games is reason enough to splash a singleton Taiga in the main) both times. Any thoughts on this?

---

Thoughts are that you're screwing yourself if he runs/sides in Sulfuric Vortex. Also, some burn decks run/side in Ensnaring Bridges as well -- I would recommend leaving in maybe 2 deeds and the wickerbough for these contingencies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Thoughts are that you're screwing yourself if he runs/sides in Sulfuric Vortex. Also, some burn decks run/side in Ensnaring Bridges as well -- I would recommend leaving in maybe 2 deeds and the wickerbough for these contingencies.

---

I'm not completely sold on keeping Deed in: seems a little too slow, especially since the only permanents I saw were Lavamancers, Guides, and Vortexes, and I run 4 Deed, 3 Decay, and 2 Pulse Main now (actually let me post my most recent list after this: might give a better idea of what all I run now). Wickerbough Elder however seems like a good keep though, and Tabernacle is a definite side out.

BUGr Fit (60/15)
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Brainstorm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dryad Arbor
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
///
3 Inquisition of Kozilek (was 0 during Burn Matches)
2 Thoughtseize (was 4 during Burn Matches)
3 Headhunter
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder (was 2 during Burn Matches)
2 Slaughter Games
2 Pithing Needle
2 Toxic Deluge

Hey, thought I'd share a 'new' list I have been working on. Biggest changes are that it includes SFM + Batterskull/Jitte, and a pack of Living Wish.
Too often I lost my first game versus e.d. Thespian Stage combo, and I think being able to use your SB straight away as a toolbox is very neat.

Creatures (9):
3x Veteran Explorer
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Wolfir Silverheart
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Thrun, the last Troll
1x Eternal Witness

Spells (30):
4x Green sun's Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Living Wish
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Batterskull
1x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Pernicious Deed
4x Lingering Souls
2x Diabolic Intent
3x Sensei's Divining Top

Land (21):
2x Phyrexian Tower
1x Volrath's Stronghold
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Savannah
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
3x Forest
2x Plains
2x Swamp

// Sideboard
[Fetchable with Living Wish]
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Veteran Explorer
1x Ichneumon Druid
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Peacekeeper
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Maze of Ith
1x Bojuka Bog
[Rest]
1x Choke
4x Leyline of Sanctity


Looking forward to hear your thoughts!

Thoughtseize also seems really bad too against burn. If your main concern is getting Price of Progressed out, you don't need 8 pieces of discard for that. You're handing them a free shock every time you use it, and giving them essentially an extra card (well. .67 cards).

That said. Thragtusk is about 1.5-2 cards in their hand worth of damage prevention. Deed is very important still, maybe not a 4 of, but enough to be able to reliably clear the board of Sulfuric Vortex + Goblin Guide. Giving them extra lands is rarely a bad thing, they get a greater percentage to draw more gas, but their ability to become "explosive" is relatively minor, their damage output is linear for the most part. It's essentially like playing against Sneak and Show in the sense you need both a clock and disruption, and lacking either will make it difficult for victory because they'll eventually combo out on you.

I don't know what you'd bring in Slaughter Games for, I mean, it makes sense, to an extent, but it's not like their ways to kill you are few, like storm or show and tell, they don't have a specific trump card that closes it out for them. What would you name? Price? Fireblast? Bolt? You're still likely only to get 1, maybe 2 cards seen, they live off the top of their deck and redundancy, and unless you're casting 4 Slaughter Games in a game, I think the kind of proactive measures it'd bring aren't nearly strong enough to warrant bringing them in.

Re: Above.

Ichneumon Druid is absolutely hilarious. I approve. I also think the Wolfir Silverheart (I mean, I do love that card v. much) would be much better suited for a Thragtusk. Thragtusk is literally one of the best cards hands down that you can play with 4 GSZ in any format that has miracles & burn. Is Peacekeeper your out vs Sneak and Show? What about Omni-Tell?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tadiou

Thoughtseize also seems really bad too against burn. If your main concern is getting Price of Progressed out, you don't need 8 pieces of discard for that. You're handing them a free shock every time you use it, and giving them essentially an extra card (well. .67 cards).

That said. Thragtusk is about 1.5-2 cards in their hand worth of damage prevention. Deed is very important still, maybe not a 4 of, but enough to be able to reliably clear the board of Sulfuric Vortex + Goblin Guide. Giving them extra lands is rarely a bad thing, they get a greater percentage to draw more gas, but their ability to become "explosive" is relatively minor, their damage output is linear for the most part. It's essentially like playing against Sneak and Show in the sense you need both a clock and disruption, and lacking either will make it difficult for victory because they'll eventually combo out on you.

I don't know what you'd bring in Slaughter Games for, I mean, it makes sense, to an extent, but it's not like their ways to kill you are few, like storm or show and tell, they don't have a specific trump card that closes it out for them. What would you name? Price? Fireblast? Bolt? You're still likely only to get 1, maybe 2 cards seen, they live off the top of their deck and redundancy, and unless you're casting 4 Slaughter Games in a game, I think the kind of proactive measures it'd bring aren't nearly strong enough to warrant bringing them in.

Re: Above.

Ichneumon Druid is absolutely hilarious. I approve. I also think the Wolfir Silverheart (I mean, I do love that card v. much) would be much better suited for a Thragtusk. Thragtusk is literally one of the best cards hands down that you can play with 4 GSZ in any format that has miracles & burn.

---

I agree that Thoughtseize is bad against Burn: I was more concerned about the Elves' matchup though when I built the side before though. Burn player actually recommended a split (3-2 or 2-2) between Thoughtseize and Inquisition however, so I'm gonna test how that works next time.

With Slaughter Games, I'd probably name Price of Progress first so I can afford to get greedy with my lands (excess green sources to be exact), then probably Sulfuric Vortex afterwards since it actually prevents me from stabilizing my life total with Scavenging Ooze, Deathrite Shaman, or Thragtusk (which is nuts against burn: he actually scooped once I got him out).