[Deck] GW/x Maverick

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Originally Posted by useL

I have gone up to 2 Qasali Pridemage to win the mirror and against OmniShow

I now play Linvala main to win the midrange fights and tribals (my meta is filled with Oozes, Knights, Moms, goblins, elves)

I also picked up a Stoneforge Mystic to find Jitte in midrange and control games.

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I think Pridemage should be 2 or 3 no more no less, 2 is a fine number.

Linvala main, I like it in the right meta, I use to maindeck one too.

A little bit funny, not more then I couple replays ago you didnt like stoneforge. ;-) I have mixed feelings but maybe just one is fine. And I dont say player that are playing a sword of something is wrong either. But starting playing Batterskull is just bad.

Before when I used to play a Linvala and a Stoneforge main I played a Fauna Shaman aswell. If you are going to main deck a Linvala I think is right to cut a planeswalker.

Why just 3 wastelands? I know they are not great in some match ups but sick good in others, would not play anything but a full playset.

Guess I would cut a PW for a Fauna Shaman atleist and get in that last Wasteland.

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Originally Posted by useL

My sideboard is divided into 3 techs: miracles (teeg, pithing needles, one more elspeth), storm (thorn of amethyst, crop rotation -> bog), tribal (removal) and a couple of Krosan Grip for the diverse meta.

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One more planeswalker, you seems to love them. :-)

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Originally Posted by useL

My last game last Tuesday I sat with a Knight untapped for 3 whole turns instead of crashing into my storm opponent for 6 each turn and instead hitting with a dryad arbor or hierarch because I knew that when I tapped my Knight it would be lights out since I could not remove his GY for treshhold/ill-gotten gains/past in flames. I am quite sure that a less experienced player maybe would go for the kill instead and this would have been the game since he had a grip full of answers to a tapped knight.

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Guess you made the right play but would love to get more info. Lifes? How many cards in his hand? What cards was on the board? How big was KotR? :-)

Against Burn gaining 4 life immidiately makes a lot of difference.
Furthermore, Spike Feeder is pretty awesome against Dredge, removing bridges.
He is a lot better with SoLaS though, so since I don't play that one anymore, perhaps the Feeder should be cut.

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Originally Posted by Jiaozy

Why Spike Feeder over Kitchen Finks? Is there any reason other than nostalgia?

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For the Burn MU, where Kitchen Finks often gains you only 2 lives, cause the Burn player won't kill it.

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Against Burn gaining 4 life immidiately makes a lot of difference.
Furthermore, Spike Feeder is pretty awesome against Dredge, removing bridges.
He is a lot better with SoLaS though, so since I don't play that one anymore, perhaps the Feeder should be cut.

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Dredge: Sure if you draw it but if you have GSZ for it, you are better GSZ for Ooze.(most likely a turn before aswell)

If you play SoLaS you will get enough life against burn, and jitte is even better in that regard.

Usually Ooze will seal the deal for you, but sometimes you need to get rid of several bridges asap.
It's not brilliant, but Feeder has some advantages which make me favor him over Finks right now.

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Originally Posted by nicoleptik

For the Burn MU, where Kitchen Finks often gains you only 2 lives, cause the Burn player won't kill it.

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In the burn MU Finks is A LOT better, blocking and killing Goblin Guide or Keldon Marauder, then coming back to block again and kill another Guide or Marauder, netting you something like 8-10 life (2 entering, 2-3 blocking, 2 re-entering and another 2-3 blocking) and removing 1 or 2 dudes.

With Feeder you can't even kill the Guide because you'd never gain life...

SoLaS is so bad I didn't even consider it as a card for the deck, but again, Finks would be a lot better because it can actually kill something AND make you gain life!

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SoLaS is so bad I didn't even consider it as a card for the deck, but again, Finks would be a lot better because it can actually kill something AND make you gain life!

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What context are you determining this for, the Burn matchup? SoLaS is not the greatest in the Burn matchup for sure, but you shouldn't discount it for the Miracles matchup. Turning any creature into a pro-Swords to Plowshares guy isn't bad at all.

-Matt

SoLaS is pretty fucking good in the following matchups:

Deadguy Ale
Maverick
Miracles
Death & Taxes

It's decent in the following:
Burn/RDW
Dredge (pro:zombies)

I'd say it's worth the slot in the 75, but right now better off in the sideboard. I run it even without SFM, but I may start to include SFM afterall with how bad the Miracles matchup is. It only recently came out as it were.

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Originally Posted by Jiaozy

SoLaS is so bad I didn't even consider it as a card for the deck...

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Its not that bad. SoLaS on teeg is really good against Miracles. :-)

Note: I am not saying that you should play it.

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Originally Posted by sdematt

What context are you determining this for, the Burn matchup? SoLaS is not the greatest in the Burn matchup for sure, but you shouldn't discount it for the Miracles matchup. Turning any creature into a pro-Swords to Plowshares guy isn't bad at all.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by Koby

SoLaS is pretty fucking good in the following matchups:

Deadguy Ale
Maverick
Miracles
Death & Taxes

It's decent in the following:
Burn/RDW
Dredge (pro:zombies)

I'd say it's worth the slot in the 75, but right now better off in the sideboard. I run it even without SFM, but I may start to include SFM afterall with how bad the Miracles matchup is. It only recently came out as it were.

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The concept that a Sword is good when it protects from removal is so wrong it can't be told by words.

A Sword is good when it makes your dudes unblockable, because if they can't remove it but it can be blocked by anything on the table, the sword does nothing.
Having good triggered abilities is just icing on the cake.

In the current meta, there are only two swords worth playing: Feast and Famine and Body and Mind.

Feast and Famine is, as of now, the best one because it gives protection from the most popular creatures (green ones) and a few removal, while having two awesome abilities.

Body and Mind gives awesome evasion by making all those Snapcasters, Vendilion, Delver, Mongeese, Goyfs and Reliquary look sad while you swing trough, all of this while having a decent ability by leaving a body to which you can equip the sword again (and then block all those dudes) or that can chumpblock and buy you time.

All of the others are far inferior and even those two Swords are inferior to Jitte because this deck DOES NOT need a Sword.
Sure, you can play it as an overkill, but it's totally not needed because, unlike Stoneblade, this deck plays dudes that are bigger than X/2 and can trump the opposing blockers and don't need evasion.

If the reasoning is "SoLaS is good because it protects from STP" then PLEASE play Lightning Greaves in its place, because against Miracle they're exactly the same: gaining life against them is pointless and recurring creature from the GY with them playing Terminus (puts on bottom), Swords to Plowshares (exiles) and Path to Exile (exiles) is basically impossible.

As for SoLaS being good in the mirror, say hello to my Dryad Arbor + Scryb Ranger lock, to my Ooze eating your dudes and to my HIERARCH blocking your dudes.
In all those scenario, your sword does nothing while a F&F or B&M would've let you connect and trigger some good abilities because in the mirror, in case it's gone unnoticed, leaving your opponent empty handed while doubling your mana seems good and milling them (more Ooze fodder) while doing additional blockers/attackers is at least nice.

I repeat, in THIS metagame SoL&S is VERY BAD because the protection are pointless and the abilities do nothing.

If Deadguy and Death and Taxes become more popular (and with Orzhov being in the next set, you never know), then the sword of choice will change, but as long as the most played creatures are Blue and Green and the abilities printed on SoLaS do nothing, the card is incredibly bad.

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Originally Posted by Jiaozy

In the current meta, there are only two swords worth playing: Feast and Famine and Body and Mind.

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You are mistaken. Look back (about March 2012) to find out why.

Link to the post about it back in March 2012.

While your analysis I do agree with, I don't think it's quite as awful as you're making it out to be. You're making it sound like you'd rather run an off-colour, uncastable card than run SOLAS.

I was thinking about the Esper matchup more than the Miracles matchup for some reason (probably because I've got Esperblade stuck in my head from Sunday), so, I'd agree with most of your points. Ish.

-Matt

I don't claim to know a lot about this deck but I have had quite a bit success with it. In my opinion there is a base to this deck, a group of core cards that its built from. The flex slots are then meta calls and cards that you feel comfortable with personally. My list is constantly evolving and changing with cards I feel comfortable with playing against the current meta. To me a sfm package including swords seems playable at the moment. Making any guy an immediate threat after a terminus doesn't have much of a downside. Looking at a lot of the Miracle lists I think a must have sb card is Pithing Needle. Other than that its personal opinion. I do like the silence/charm discussion currently because of its diversity into other matches. Discussing card choices is the only way we can improve the Maverick player base. I'd like to see more discussions on how certain cards interact in games to maybe bring light to situations people haven't always seen. Just my .02

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Originally Posted by useL

I always tend to love the Cradle when it shows up, using it with Scavenging Ooze or being able to zenith up a knight tapping just one land is fantastic. Or even being able to pay for spell pierce even though the opponent thinks it is impossible is quite worth while. Consider this the next time you pick up the deck, would I want my Maze of Ith to be a Umezawa's Jitte? I asked myself that a lot of times and came up with that I really want that Stoneforge as a third Jitte.

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Why wouldn't you just play third Jitte. Why play Mystic without Fauna Shaman?

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Originally Posted by Koby

You are mistaken. Look back (about March 2012) to find out why.

Link to the post about it back in March 2012.

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Your reasoning is pretty messed up, because the real strength of the protections is to get past blocker, NOT save your dudes from removal, to save your dudes from removal you'd want something like Lightning Greaves or Swiftfoot Boots that cost 2 or 3 mana less to play + equip.

SoB&M makes their knight grow, so what?
The wolf you leave behind can chump it or any creature wielding the sword can block it and live to tell the tale.

SoF&F makes them discard AND lets you untap to play another Zenith, a Garruk, Knight or even just move the sword to another creature to block anything they can throw at you.

While your precious SoL&S in that situation does NOTHING.
No, wait, they can't kill your creatures. But they can sure as hell get past them with a decent sword! :laugh:

IF you play the Sword, it is for evasion, if you want protection from removal just put a Lightning Greaves in the SB, THAT would be good against Miracle, not a 5CC equip that just gives pro-white.

Proof of this comes from the RESULTS.
People outside this site realized quickly how the best Sword is Feast and Famine because of the combination of evasion + triggered, it's not just my personal opinion or bias, all I say comes from (mine and clearly everyone else's) tests and results.

I only brought up SoLaS because that was why I started to use Spike Feeder and Faerie Macabre back in the day.
Some time ago, the mirror and StoneBlade were the matchup I'd encounter most, and SoLaS is sweet there, giving protection from Knights, StP and the Germ token. Retrieving creatures to create more chump blockers, or get Qasali's back is nice as well. SoLaS is a very good sword. In the current meta I play only Jittes though. Two main and a third side.

@Jiaozy
A lot of your recent comments lead me to believe you dont grasp the basics of this deck. Pick it up and play 20 matches with some of your ideas to realize whats going on.

If the point was evasion alone, then people would play Whispersilk Cloak. Obviously they dont so that reason is not the only reason. There is very little reason to run the equipment if not for the protection. Loxodon Warhammer provides a bigger bonus and de facto evasion but doesnt see play either. Out of the matchups where blocking is important they involve other creature equipment decks like Stoneblade, Lingering Souls, tribals, and the mirror. Its very easy to spot SoWP is unplayable in Legacy because its triggers blow chunks. The other White sword thus becomes the better one for both evasion and the rather useful ability to recur Qasali Pridemage to continue making sure equipment does not stay on the battlefield for your opponent.

SoFF provides one of the least relevant protections for removal and not the best for evasion. If the sole reason to run it is the discard and untapping your lands, then you are playing the wrong deck for SoFF. SoFF fits better in Stoneblade than it does for Maverick. This deck doesnt run counters so keeping mana up is pointless. Deploying more threats when you already have a sword active doesnt seem to do much either. The deck should be deploying treats in a manner that if one resolves and you untap with it, that should be enough to win the game on its own, provided you protect it well. Why else would we be playing Mother of Runes if we didnt care about the protection.

Thus the reasons for playing SoLS is for its protections from both white's most prevalent removal and against Black germ tokens. This was much more important when Stoneblade was seen everywhere than it is now when the premier white removal deck is Miracles. Go ahead and keep playing the SoFF against Miracles and let me know how often your threats keep eating StP and getting chumped by Snapcasters and Stoneforges, and getting bounced by Jace. The only matchup where i would want the SoFF is against slow combo like High Tide and Show n Tell decks. Even there the five or six wasted mana to play and equip the sword doesnt make it spectacular. Im all for new ideas in Maverick, but the preference for variety of swords from idiots that play Path to exile maindeck and run SoFF like some old Standard deck is not new or original. Its just fucking lazy and inbred lists copied from Todd Anderson.

Show me the players that run the equipment and show me their standings and link me to their report. I doubt any of the swords have seen play recently, let alone make a critical play. They just are not good outside of very specific matchups.

Sorry for the typos typing this on my phone.

In Maverick, Jitte >>>>>>> SoLS >> SoFI >> Batterskull > SoFF > SoBM >> SoWP

Edit: If you're still slinging Punishing Fire because you're stuck in 2011 where Thalia and Rest in Peace are not yet real cards and Counterbalance doesn't see any play, then Sword of Feast and Famine is more justifiable. (Shifts it above Batterskull IMO.)

Agree with Koby, SoLaS was running mostly due to protections (trigger aren't so revelant, I know, but still very good against any BUGs or with Sylvan Library). You forgot about one thing you force any removal while equiping any of your Noble/Scryb/BoP - for sure it gives protection to chump and also give evasion - the fact this sword was playing - it gives all of them - evasion, protection, chump and still sometimes CA.

Saying Solas doesn't give protection and its not a main reason is saying same as MoR do nothing.

Btw I would pointed one thing Lightning Greaves are quite good against Miracle, and other controls - having haste is really very good. I tested version in fauna shaman/Ion'a/Elesh/Retrainer's build as additional protection in SFM toolbox as 1-of.

Btw Retrainer is a human.. :)

Went a to tournament last sunday and did 3-1, winning UWmiracles but losing a very tight RUG match. I split 3-4 place with a friend of mine, also playing Maverick. Deck is solid, no matter what SCG flashy players say.
UWmiracles --> Is not such a bad match, that people tend to complain about. I mean, seriously, we have all these hate bears / spells to choose. We just have to adupt our SB. Of course it doesn't get better than 55-45 but that's legacy, experience gives more wins than words. So my advice is playtest... and put more gaddock teegs ;)
Omni --> Haven't playtest as much as miracles, but I play tutor package of Fauna Shamans + Enlightened Tutors + GSZ. I just try to make the game last so that I can get them online while slowly eating away life points.

From my experience, playing stoneforge package is way outdated. I personally use Enlightened Tutor package with hate cards.
Path to Exile is not a good choice, run 1 enlightened tutor and go get Jitte. Its just better.
Sylvan Library... used to run 1 but now I have 2 main. I don't have any Pernicious Deed in my meta so I will continue with those two against control. If BUG becomes popular then a PW will be added.
PWs... I'm not sure yet. I used Garruk Relentless and the fight ability doesn't seem that good. Sure in theory it looks good but after playing with it, the second Sylvan Library is way better.