[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eirirlar

1 Ancient Tomb
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
3 Rishadan Port
4 Scrubland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Aether Vial
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Mangara of Corondor
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Vindicate
2 Nether Void
1 Batterskull


Could someone please post some opinions on this decklist?

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Hi,
Your deck seems a bit mixed up to me. There are several cardchoices I do not understand.
First of all, Aether Vial indicated, that you wish to play the vial variant of DGA. Charactaristical for that variant is a high amount of creatures with the same CMC and neat enter-the-battlefield abilities. Common choices are Serra Avenger, Jötun grunt, Tidehollow Sculler, Stoneforge Mystic, Dark Confidant, Thalia and Phyrexian Revoker. Furthermore you often see a Playset of Mother of Runes in those builds.
Mangara and Mindcensor do not support that plan of throwing quickly some hatebears in your opponent´s face. They raise the manacurve or, in the best case, force you to add a counter on your vial.
Then, why not a full playset of Confidant? He´s amazing and should be cut last. next point would be the monstrous stoneforge package. 2 swords, a batterskull and a jitte? If you want to dig that deep in such a toolbox at least 4 Mystics are needed. Or cut those swords (the equippment, not the instant); that would be my plan. Those three tiny inquisitions do look a bit random. Beside your scullers, nothing supports your discard-disruption plan.
Your manabase looks strange, too, starting with Rishidan port. Together with wasteland and ancient tomb you have 8 lands, which won´t porduce any colored mana. Not to speak of cavern of souls, which is even more irritating, because most of your creatures dont share a type. You will ideally cast those creatures via vial anyway, which makes them uncounterable. Karakas is a fine card. But three of them? You will draw in every midgame-duel at least 2. A dead card for your. Last but not least I don´t see any basics in your board. Recurring Wastelands will simply make you lose the game.
I think the idea behind Nether Void is to prevent opponents from recovering, while you play your beaters via vial. I also think, that the one off Tomb is for accelerating that plan. All in all that seems to be a slick idea, but it won´t work in most of games. Either it will be too slow (only 1 Mana accelerator) or your void will simply get a counter/removal to its face.

So, my suggestion:
- 2 Karakas
- 3 Rishidan port
- 3 Mangara of Condor
- 2 Aven Mindcensor
- 2 Nethervoid
- 1 Ancient Tomb

+ 1 Dark Confidant
+ 1 Stoneforge Mystic
+ x Phyrexian Revokers

The rest is up to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valech

Hi,
Your deck seems a bit mixed up to me. There are several cardchoices I do not understand.
First of all, Aether Vial indicated, that you wish to play the vial variant of DGA. Charactaristical for that variant is a high amount of creatures with the same CMC and neat enter-the-battlefield abilities. Common choices are Serra Avenger, Jötun grunt, Tidehollow Sculler, Stoneforge Mystic, Dark Confidant, Thalia and Phyrexian Revoker. Furthermore you often see a Playset of Mother of Runes in those builds.
Mangara and Mindcensor do not support that plan of throwing quickly some hatebears in your opponent´s face. They raise the manacurve or, in the best case, force you to add a counter on your vial.
Then, why not a full playset of Confidant? He´s amazing and should be cut last. next point would be the monstrous stoneforge package. 2 swords, a batterskull and a jitte? If you want to dig that deep in such a toolbox at least 4 Mystics are needed. Or cut those swords (the equippment, not the instant); that would be my plan. Those three tiny inquisitions do look a bit random. Beside your scullers, nothing supports your discard-disruption plan.
Your manabase looks strange, too, starting with Rishidan port. Together with wasteland and ancient tomb you have 8 lands, which won´t porduce any colored mana. Not to speak of cavern of souls, which is even more irritating, because most of your creatures dont share a type. You will ideally cast those creatures via vial anyway, which makes them uncounterable. Karakas is a fine card. But three of them? You will draw in every midgame-duel at least 2. A dead card for your. Last but not least I don´t see any basics in your board. Recurring Wastelands will simply make you lose the game.
I think the idea behind Nether Void is to prevent opponents from recovering, while you play your beaters via vial. I also think, that the one off Tomb is for accelerating that plan. All in all that seems to be a slick idea, but it won´t work in most of games. Either it will be too slow (only 1 Mana accelerator) or your void will simply get a counter/removal to its face.

So, my suggestion:
- 2 Karakas
- 3 Rishidan port
- 3 Mangara of Condor
- 2 Aven Mindcensor
- 2 Nethervoid
- 1 Ancient Tomb

+ 1 Dark Confidant
+ 1 Stoneforge Mystic
+ x Phyrexian Revokers

The rest is up to you.

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Thanks for the feedback.

I've incorporated some of your advice in a new decklist:

1 Ancient Tomb
3 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
3 Rishadan Port
4 Scrubland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Aether Vial
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Mangara of Corondor
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Vindicate
2 Nether Void
1 Batterskull


Mindcensors were removed because of the casting cost mismatch.

Number of equipment reduced to 2. Number of Stoneforge Mystics increased to 4.

Dark Confidant increased to 4.

Increased number of Inquisition of Kozilek to 4, and number of Tidehollow Scullers to 3. The main thing with these is to rip away low casting cost spells from opponents hand while he's under pressure from Wasteland/Port/Vindicate/Mangara/Thalia and eventually Nether Void.

Decided to stick with the 3 Ports, because:
- While it's true that they disrupt the manabase, it is partially countered by low dependency on colored mana (Aether Vial, mostly W or B + 0 or 1 casting cost spells).
- In the first few rounds of the game, while waiting for Aether Vial to grow counters or getting enough lands for Vindicate/Mangara, the Port stalls the opponent.
- Under Nether Void, when I don't need the mana from my lands so much anymore, they're good.
- I don't go for 4 ports because while it's really nice to have in the opening hand, it's not so good to have 2 on the opening hand.

You guessed right on the Nether Void and Tomb. Removal and counterspells is partially countered by tapping his lands with Port the turn before playing it, and having Thalia in play. Once Nether Void is online, i have at least one creature in play and it should be really hard for the opponent to get out of that lock. I included only 1 Tomb because they disrupt the mana balance a lot.

Karakas is not so good to draw multiples of, that's true. But it's really good with Mangara. To have any hope at all of getting the combo online i believe I need at least 3 of each (winning Death and Taxes decks plays 4 of each). I agree that Mangara has an off casting cost, but usually the Vial has already done it's job for one CC 2 creature. If I have another CC 2 creature in my hand or draw into another one, I can hard-cast it. Or maybe I even draw another Vial, I have 4.

Regarding Cavern of Souls, agreed. It's utility does not outweight the situations where it's just annoying.

Basic lands: the plan is to apply pressure on the opponents manabase so much that they don't get a waste-lock online. While this will not always work, I believe it will work sufficiently often.

Comments still appreciated :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eirirlar

Thanks for the feedback.

I've incorporated some of your advice in a new decklist:

1 Ancient Tomb
3 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
3 Rishadan Port
4 Scrubland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Aether Vial
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Mangara of Corondor
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Vindicate
2 Nether Void
1 Batterskull


Mindcensors were removed because of the casting cost mismatch.

Number of equipment reduced to 2. Number of Stoneforge Mystics increased to 4.

Dark Confidant increased to 4.

Increased number of Inquisition of Kozilek to 4, and number of Tidehollow Scullers to 3. The main thing with these is to rip away low casting cost spells from opponents hand while he's under pressure from Wasteland/Port/Vindicate/Mangara/Thalia and eventually Nether Void.

Decided to stick with the 3 Ports, because:
- While it's true that they disrupt the manabase, it is partially countered by low dependency on colored mana (Aether Vial, mostly W or B + 0 or 1 casting cost spells).
- In the first few rounds of the game, while waiting for Aether Vial to grow counters or getting enough lands for Vindicate/Mangara, the Port stalls the opponent.
- Under Nether Void, when I don't need the mana from my lands so much anymore, they're good.
- I don't go for 4 ports because while it's really nice to have in the opening hand, it's not so good to have 2 on the opening hand.

You guessed right on the Nether Void and Tomb. Removal and counterspells is partially countered by tapping his lands with Port the turn before playing it, and having Thalia in play. Once Nether Void is online, i have at least one creature in play and it should be really hard for the opponent to get out of that lock. I included only 1 Tomb because they disrupt the mana balance a lot.

Karakas is not so good to draw multiples of, that's true. But it's really good with Mangara. To have any hope at all of getting the combo online i believe I need at least 3 of each (winning Death and Taxes decks plays 4 of each). I agree that Mangara has an off casting cost, but usually the Vial has already done it's job for one CC 2 creature. If I have another CC 2 creature in my hand or draw into another one, I can hard-cast it. Or maybe I even draw another Vial, I have 4.

Regarding Cavern of Souls, agreed. It's utility does not outweight the situations where it's just annoying.

Basic lands: the plan is to apply pressure on the opponents manabase so much that they don't get a waste-lock online. While this will not always work, I believe it will work sufficiently often.

Comments still appreciated :)

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Your list is more like Death and Taxes than Deadguy.
-17 creatures is a bit low for a Aether Vial deck. Look at Goblins, Merfolk or D+T. They run more than 20. I think Goblins is close to 30.
-No Basics is a bit scary. I would try and fit in at least 1 plains and 1 swamp.
-While Vindicate and NEther Void are great cards...you run 3 Thalia and only 22 land (6 fetches). I used to run Thalia in my board...and I found that while it hard my opponent, it sometimes hurt me just as much.
-I understand the 3 Karakas in there. That's fine.

So I'd cut the 2 Nether Void and 3 Vindicate and put in say 2 Jotun Grunt, 1 Tidehollow Sculler and 2 Serra Avenger.
-I'd cut the Ancient Tomb and a Fetch for a basic plains and swamp
-That way your Thalia isn't going to hurt you at all. The Ancient Tomb was interesting but since most of you deck is coloured spells, I don't feel the need for it, plus you already have 4 wasteland and 3 Port.

Hi everyone,
first of all, im currently running the following list:

4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Lingering Souls
4 Bitterblossom

3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughseize
4 Cabal therapy

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa´s Jitte
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3 Intangible Virtue

3 Chrome Mox
4 Marsh Flats
2 polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
1 Plains
1 Fetid Heath
4 Scrubland
3 Swamp


Sideboard:
2 Timely Reinforcement
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Leyline of the void
3 Extirpate
3 Pithing Needle
1 Umezawas Jitte


With this list I have participated in a local, small Tournament and want to share my notes.

Round 1 against generic Guy with Goblins.
Never saw that guy here around, neither did others I know in that store. He later told me he´s only visiting his Aunt and took the chance to play his deck in unknown terrain.
Anyway, G1 he seems to hold a bad hand, cause he neither dropped Vial/Lackey T1 nor dropped a second land on T2. No friend of mulligan I see. I get some buisness but he stabilizes around 5 Life. We both build up a pretty slick army soon, then I draw a second Virtue, emblem with Sorin, Swords to one of his Lords and simply overrun him. GG.
G2 he boards like eight cards and drops Vial T1. I board Timely Reinforcements cause i tend to drop pretty low against goblins usually and won´t trust in a lucky start again. I make him discard a lackey, get online a Liliana via Chrome Mox T2. Cause no bigger threat is on his side of the field, I +1 her and discard Lingering Souls. He discards a Mountain. I flashback Lingering Souls and play Mystic Turn 3. I dig for Jitte and attack T4 with and equipped spirit token. Quite a perfect start, he won´t stabilize and I take the first win.
Afterwards he told me, that he hadn´t any sideboardcards against me, so he simply acted like he changed cards. Don´t know if thats somehow not legal, but I fell for it and laughed. Psychological warfare.

Round 2 against Michael with Dredge
First of all, I can´t decide if I hate Dredge more than I like Michael or vise versa. He´s a nice guy (with seemingly a huge purse, owns several Legacy Decks with each having Sets of Duals for their own) and a competent player. Never saw him playing dredge thou.
So, G1 I don´t know what im up against. I hold a hand with two Cabal Therapy but I don´t like blind shots against decks I dont know. Not much to say here, after I realize what he is doing T2 ge quickly overruns me with a zombie horde. GG
G2 I board all of the Leylines and Reinforcements. I board out the two thoughseize and three cabal therapy. I´m never sure what to take out against Michael, cause it strangely seems like I am always missing the cards I board away. Anyway, I hold a lucky hand with 2 leylines and he ain´t seeing land that game. Nothing special to mention here, he simply doesn´t find an answer.
G3 he boards some Graveyard-hate-hate (I guess) and I start with an okay hand but no leylines. He starts with an mediocre hand as well it seems, cause it takes him surprisingly long to get going. T4 I draw a Leyline which I am luckily able to play. Seems gamebreaking, cause I can handle the few threats with Swords and liliana. My tokens make the race.

Round 3, last one already, against Sarah with Combo Elve. Don´t ask me how she came that far, i asked her and even she didn´t know.
I knew what she was playing through some other player´s irritated verbal outbursts when they faced her but I never played against Combo elve and hardly knew the mechanics.
G1 she simply goes off T2 with emrakul and concordant crossroads. No deck to get distracted against. That was scary and quick.
G2 I boarded my beloved canonists, my Needles and my Extirpates. And indeed I was able to drop Canonist T1 with Mox. Not much to say after that point. She dropped some elves for stalling i guess but to some point i equipped a flyer with jitte and batterskull and well... got revenge for g1.
G3 almost ended with a timeout. G2 seemed to be longer than it felt. I didn´t see any canonists the whole game, but i managed to make her discard a glimpse of nature. then I needled that "tap three untapped elves" guy and, gamewinningly, I Extirpated her glimpse T5. Win. GG. Dance hard techno.

After all I left the store as the winner, what doesn´t make me freak out much considering it´s only a very small local thing. I know, that maverick and Miracle decks were out there, but I seem to have missed them. Don´t know if that was my luck, but I would have loved to see Miracle cause I never played against it.

Some thoughts in the end. Timely Reinforcements is a monster. I would have simply ignored that card if it wasn´t mentioned here. Thanks for that. Intangible Virtue was a great card when I played it. Of course Zealous Persecution would have probably done it against Gobbos as well, but the option to attack AND chumpblock next turn is very neat to my eyes. Did I mention, that Virtue is a permanent?
last but not least, cutting Hymn and Vindicate was a good idea. They slowered the deck and despite of their possible great impact on the game I don´t see them return soon to dga.

Sorry for my english, and I hope I´ll find out soon how to tag cards^^

Made top 8 in a 39 man tournament in Mississauaga, Ontario. It's called Untouchables.

Will be posting on the Tournament report part of the forum. Went 4W-1L and 2 draws.

Gatekeepers and Cabal Therapy were insanely good today.

Hi I need help. I am a B/W player and in desperate need to beat a splash goblin deck (R/b/g). Is there any good sideboard to beat this annoying goblin deck ?

Currently his goblin deck is like this

4 Aether Vial

Creatures
4 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Mogg War Marshal
3 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

Tribal Sorceries
1 Warren Weirding

Basic Lands
4 Mountain

Lands
3 Arid Mesa
2 Badlands
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga

Sideboard:
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
2 Perish
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Skirk Prospector

Is there any suggestion ?

My deck is
4 StP
3 Zealous Persecution
4 Lingering Souls
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize

4 Dark Confidant
4 Stone Forge Mystic
3 Thalia Guardian of Thraben
2 Tombs Stalker

3 Liliana of the Veil

2 Umezawa Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sensei Divining Top

2 Scrubland
2 Plains
4 Swamp
4 Marsh Flat
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Arid Mesa
4 Wasteland

My Sideboard
2 Perish
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Timely Reinforcements
1 Serenity
1 Cop Red
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Engineered Explosion
1 Oblivion Ring

My current meta is Aggro everywhere

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rei4u2005

Hi I need help. I am a B/W player and in desperate need to beat a splash goblin deck (R/b/g). Is there any good sideboard to beat this annoying goblin deck ?

Currently his goblin deck is like this

4 Aether Vial

Creatures
4 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Mogg War Marshal
3 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

Tribal Sorceries
1 Warren Weirding

Basic Lands
4 Mountain

Lands
3 Arid Mesa
2 Badlands
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga

Sideboard:
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
2 Perish
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Skirk Prospector

Is there any suggestion ?

My deck is
4 StP
3 Zealous Persecution
4 Lingering Souls
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize

4 Dark Confidant
4 Stone Forge Mystic
3 Thalia Guardian of Thraben
2 Tombs Stalker

3 Liliana of the Veil

2 Umezawa Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sensei Divining Top

2 Scrubland
2 Plains
4 Swamp
4 Marsh Flat
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Arid Mesa
4 Wasteland

My Sideboard
2 Perish
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Timely Reinforcements
1 Serenity
1 Cop Red
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Engineered Explosion
1 Oblivion Ring

My current meta is Aggro everywhere

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Enlightened Tutor likes to look for Engineered Plague?

Well for Engineered Plague, the Goblin deck need at least 2 Engineered Plague to be really sealed the battlefield and The Krosan Grip because of the Instant and split second kill the active jitte and Engineered Plague and the moment the goblin is free right in an instant he do a combo goblin haste to kill me off (especially the pile driver for insane damage)

Have you tried Burrenton(spelling?) Forge-Tender?

And I'm not convinced you would need multiple plagues on board as you have 3 ZP in your main, that plus plague should wipe the board?

Well Yes I do have tried it but I to gotten kill in the next turn because of the overwhelming goblin on the play. That's why i tried to switch to Timely Reinforcement to get a extra life and token to chump block but with sharpshooter around it still tough

"And I'm not convinced you would need multiple plagues on board as you have 3 ZP in your main, that plus plague should wipe the board?" Hmm you got a point there I really never tried the E. Plague with zealous as backup

Burrenton Forge-Tender is a nice option indeed. Try three of those.
Also, one Engineered Plague instead of the Zealous Persecution should help.

For the main, I would suggest -1 Jitte, +1 Sword of Fire and Ice.
Equipments are usually too slow against goblins anyway, so if you have the time to set one up, SoFaI will seal the win more quickly, killing guys and drawing into more removal.

I don't really see why the Zealous Persecution would be all that good anyway, even though they are quite strong against Goblins. Perhaps Disfigure would be okay in their place. The trick is to prevent Goblins from running rampage with Lackey/Instigator. The rest is actually not that fast, it just comes in great numbers. Disfigure is another way to blow up Lackeys turn one.


Last suggestion: Infest works like a Wrath of God for only three mana against Goblins. Also Infest is pretty strong against Elves, Maverick. Perhaps -2 Perish, +2 Infest? Swords to Plowshares will take care of the remaining creatures that suvive Infest anyway.

Pretty sure Infest is a great card to play against Deaduy Ale.

Zealous Persecution is really good vs decks like elves, goblins and maverick early(mom cant protect herself against it), really stellar against unflipped delvers and non thresholded mongeese. Its really awesome combat math blowout with lingering souls tokens. No its not the best removal but it works two ways by pumping your things as well. It shines really good in the Chrome Mox version where you can imprint it for access to either color...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

Pretty sure Infest is a great card to play against Deaduy Ale.

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Timing is everything. Goblins/Maverick/Elves play some dudes while you Top and Hymn/Seize them. Then you blow up their board with Infest, and the turn after go SFM > Batterskull. Next game? :cool:

I can see why Zealous Persecution could work, but it feels suboptimal to me. Then again, I'm not really an expert Modern Pikula player. :tongue:

Try to add this in you SB,

2x Phyrexian Crusader
2x Darkblast

i been using phyrexian crusader in my SB and it win the game vs goblin and UR delvers, the protection from red and first trike is the best control vs goblins..

@Asthereal
I'm still prefer 2 Perish and add 2 Infest because in my current meta there still roaming Maverik and Elves. Heck sometime I face 2 deck burn and 2 Merfolk. Hmm I'll try to MB the SoFI to replace the Jitte

@nedleeds
Yes i try to sideboard the infest

@conley1000000
Yes I agree with you 100% zealous is good against the 1 toughness utility creature deck it really kill elves I tell you. I tried the chrome mox version and I think its make the deck unstable

@Baldo
F*** it against control deck or combo deck I'll try to add 2x darkblast and 2x phyrexian crusader to beat aggro deck like Goblins thank you Baldo

BTW what is the best card in B/W deck against U/R deck (besides phyrexian crusader) and Junk ?

Hi, quick question, how important are the Chrome Mox? What purpose do they serve, is it critical to have them?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LDX

Hi, quick question, how important are the Chrome Mox? What purpose do they serve, is it critical to have them?

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Chrome Mox is there for one reason: mana acceleration. So you can cast a first turn Dark Confidant or Stoneforge Mystic. Play two of them so you give yourself a good chance of drawing one in your opening hand. And if you don't get one in your opening hand, it's usually going to be a dead draw.

Some people play three. I'm not sure I'd do that.