[DTB] Blade Control

Obviously, I like the creature suite of:

1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic

I run this config in UWr and I'm interested in seeing an Esper list run the same suite as I usually see some trimming in order to squeeze in Lingering Souls. Has The Token Express fallen out of favor in the Esper builds? I recall it being a trump in the Jace wars, although TNN seems to do that now (can't be bounced, kills Jace outright unless he +2) and TNN seems like a more reliable equipment carrier.

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

Obviously, I like the creature suite of:

1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic

I run this config in UWr and I'm interested in seeing an Esper list run the same suite as I usually see some trimming in order to squeeze in Lingering Souls. Has The Token Express fallen out of favor in the Esper builds? I recall it being a trump in the Jace wars, although TNN seems to do that now (can't be bounced, kills Jace outright unless he +2) and TNN seems like a more reliable equipment carrier.

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I'm not a fan of lingering souls in esper. Most of the same cards that kill TNN take out all of the tokens (zealous, golgari charm, toxic deluge etc), but it ends up costing you more mana to cast (not always obviously, sometimes two tokens are a good enough clock). Also, it isn't blue, which is a pretty big deal for enabling FOW. The decks that I side in the white planeswalkers also happen to be the decks that I typically side out FOW's. In the past I'd usually run 2 TNN and 2 Vendilion Clique, but TNN is really good against eldrazi and that prompted the change.

Lingering souls is much better vs Liliana, and that's pretty much what sways me one way or the other. If I was expecting a lot of LOTV's I may run a couple lingering souls. I'd probably cut a ponder and a tnn.

Have you ever considered running Painful Truths? If I were to ever go back to Esper, that is certainly one of the draws for me. As someone who's cast it more than a few times in Esper Mentor, it feels insane and allows us to keep pace with Shardless and the like. It's very easy for us to trade 1-for-1, then hope and pray Jace happens. Same idea, just a turn faster to draw 3.

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

Have you ever considered running Painful Truths? If I were to ever go back to Esper, that is certainly one of the draws for me. As someone who's cast it more than a few times in Esper Mentor, it feels insane and allows us to keep pace with Shardless and the like. It's very easy for us to trade 1-for-1, then hope and pray Jace happens. Same idea, just a turn faster to draw 3.

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I played two main deck for a while, it was too much of a liability. 3 mana (very specific mana) for a non-blue card rotted in my hand too much. It eventually became two esper charms and then down to one, and then zero, where I'm currently at.

It was certainly good in some match ups, but very poor in others. It's probably more of a sb card for esper, if anything. I'd probably have to cut the white planes walkers to make room, I don't know if I'd want to do that.

I would agree that the deck wants some sort of card draw on top of the two jtms, but I haven't a good fit. It really needs to be an instant. For now I'm just playing more ponders, and they are okay.

Agreed, I've maxed out on Ponder a year ago and haven't looked back. Our bombs are gamebreaking, it's simply a matter of finding them on time. 4 Ponder has helped smooth things out tremendously and I feel better about running a 1-of sb card because of my cantrip suite.

The discard of Esper vs. the supplemental spot removal (Bolt) and REB/Pyroblast of Jeskai is really the only thing that separates the two builds if you're not running strictly-Esper stuff like Lingering Souls, Painful Truths and Esper Charm. In that situation, why do you feel Esper gets the nod over Jeskai? Again, assuming you're NOT running Esper-specific stuff.

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

Agreed, I've maxed out on Ponder a year ago and haven't looked back. Our bombs are gamebreaking, it's simply a matter of finding them on time. 4 Ponder has helped smooth things out tremendously and I feel better about running a 1-of sb card because of my cantrip suite.

The discard of Esper vs. the supplemental spot removal (Bolt) and REB/Pyroblast of Jeskai is really the only thing that separates the two builds if you're not running strictly-Esper stuff like Lingering Souls, Painful Truths and Esper Charm. In that situation, why do you feel Esper gets the nod over Jeskai? Again, assuming you're NOT running Esper-specific stuff.

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I think it's very metagame dependent. I've certainly played jeskai before, and I would again depending on what I expected to face. Thoughtseize is obviously better vs combo and is a great card for breaking apart any random opponents game plan, at times. Honestly though, playing a deck this slow, breaking up their game plan usually isn't enough. We can't really punish slow draws very well. The red splash is probably a little better vs more of the decks to beat, but thoughtseize is much more punishing card where it's good that I currently prefer it to bolts / blasts. Even in the match ups where you don't want thoughtseize, like burn or rug delver it's often good (saving a SFM from a bolt can easily be gg).

I think the biggest reason I still play black over red is that thoughtseize is a better main deck card than the red cards. When I play red I usually play 1-2 each of spell snares and pierces main (which I hate playing because how bad they both frequently are) in hopes of beating combo decks game one, but still lose most game ones.

Yeah, I have nothing but fair stuff in my meta save for a single Storm player. Getting crushed regularly by AnT, but smashing all the other decks is what I've been shooting for with Jeskai. 4 StP, 3 Bolt, 3 Snare and 2 Snapcaster takes care of pretty much 99% of the fair dude decks (Junk, RUG Delver, D&T, etc), then leaning on 3 Snare + 3 REB vs Miracles has been a godsend. I do feel pretty bad sometimes at how abysmal my combo matchup is, particularly g1, but that's the price I pay for having overwhelming edge vs non-combo decks.

Had a very long, good session yesterday vs. Colorless Eldrazi. Stock list, no spicers. I was pleasantly surprised at how well we can still operate under an early Chalice in g1. Like, it's rough to be sure, but we run enough 2-4 mana spells where we have a very realistic chance of winning. Outside of Smasher, they have no answer to TNN and even less answers for equipment + TNN. Postboard, it gets better as we're bringing in Disechant effects and sweepers like Verdict (Blood Moon if you're on Jeskai). Overall, pleasantly surprised at how the matchup went and didn't feel out of it except for a very small number of games.

EDIT: Tuning up for SCG Milwaukee on at end of this month. Ran through the testing gauntlet (Grixis, Storm, D&T, Eldrazi, etc). Will have tourney report after May 1st.

Hey everyone,

I was looking through my cards this morning and realized I was closer to playing Esper Stoneblade than I had imagined. I have an almost finished UB Death's Shadow/Delver deck and some random cards that fit the deck. Esper Stoneblade is a deck I've always really liked and I want to move away from playing tempo (since it's not really my style) and go to control. Here is the decklist I would be using:

Land
4X Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
2x Marsh Flats
2x Island
2x Plains
1x Swamp
3x Watery Grave
3x Hallowed Fountain
1x Godless Shrine

Creatures
4x Stoneforge Mystic
3x True-Name Nemesis
2x Snapcaster Mage

Instants
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
1x Counterspell
1x Spell Snare

Sorceries
4x Thoughtseize
3x Ponder
1x Council's Judgment
1x Lingering Souls
1x Supreme Verdict

Artifacts
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Batterskull
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Planeswalkers
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard (I'm a horrible sideboarder, so open to all suggestions you guys got)
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Engineered Plague
1x Perish
2x Meddling Mage
2x Rest in Peace
2x Pithing Needle
1x Zealous Persecution
2x Spell Pierce
1x Lingering Souls

All in all, the above list should cost me about $650 to complete with what I currently have. I understand that playing with shock lands is extremely sub-optimal and will most likely cause me to lose games, however I still feel like the deck would be at least somewhat playable. I'm not someone that is too concerned with wins and losses and am mostly playing to have a good time because I enjoy legacy. I do have some questions though:

1) Do you guys think that playing a deck like this would be worth it, or do you think that shock lands make stoneblade unplayable to the point where I should just finish my Death's Shadow deck instead?

2) What order should I pick up the cards in? I keep hearing that blue duals will shoot up once eternal masters comes out so now is the best time to get them. If I do get a couple duals now, then I probably won't be able to get the core cards for at least another couple of months. Also, I've seen speculation that some cards in this deck (Stoneforge, Snapcaster, Jitte, True-Name) may be reprinted in eternal masters. Does that mean I should wait for the set to come out before buying them? Or can them not being reprinted cause a huge spike in the price?

3) If this isn't a good approach for getting into Stoneblade, can you guys recommend an alternative?

Thanks for reading!

I've said this in other threads, but I think you want maybe 1 (2 at the most) of each shock, then some of the BFZ lands if you're interested in having more dual-ish lands, but it's probably best for you to run as basic-heavy as possible. With 10 fetches it's fairly easy to have basics over some of your shocks, and Esper and Jeskai Blade aren't nearly as greedy in their color requirements as something like Deathblade or BUG.

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Originally Posted by btm10

I've said this in other threads, but I think you want maybe 1 (2 at the most) of each shock, then some of the BFZ lands if you're interested in having more dual-ish lands, but it's probably best for you to run as basic-heavy as possible. With 10 fetches it's fairly easy to have basics over some of your shocks, and Esper and Jeskai Blade aren't nearly as greedy in their color requirements as something like Deathblade or BUG.

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Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely test with upping the basic land count and maybe squeezing in a couple of those BFZ lands (I didn't even know those existed since I wasn't keeping up with new cards at that time).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El_Drazi_Landscaping

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely test with upping the basic land count and maybe squeezing in a couple of those BFZ lands (I didn't even know those existed since I wasn't keeping up with new cards at that time).

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I'd go with two hollowed fountain, one G. Shrine and replace the rest with basics. Sideboarding, or even main decking a couple back to basics would be nice with that land base.

As for cards to get first, one tundra and one UG sea seems like the way to go.

I disagree with Jambak in that I'm certain you need a UB land in there before the Shrine.

2 hallowed, 1 watery grave, 1 godless seems like it'd be okay. Color requirements are tough sometimes in this deck.

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

I disagree with Jambak in that I'm certain you need a UB land in there before the Shrine.

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You're right, I meant watery grave, I wouldn't play any shrines. Scrubland doesn't always make the cut for me, taking two damage to play scrubland certainly wouldn't :)

Sup guys, I've been playing Deathblade for a while, and decided to go back to Esper Blade, because I like a more controlish deck with a stable manabase. Deathblade gets color screwed pretty often if your Shaman dies right away.

Lands [23]
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Karakas

Creatures [10]
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique

Instant and Sorceries [21]
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
2 Lingering Souls
1 Counterspell
1 Spell Pierce
1 Council's Judgement
1 Ponder

Planeswalkers [3]
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil

Equipment [3]
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard [15]
3 Meddling Mage
2 Back to Basics
2 Pithing Needle
2 Council's Judgement
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Rest in Peace
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Flusterstorm

Sideboard is pretty much catch-all. Lingering Souls have been working overtime, mainly against Miracles. They hate being force to use Terminus on 2 Spirit tokens.

I usually board like this:

RG Lands
-3 Thoughtseize (on the draw) / -2 Swords to Plowshares -1 Council's Judgement (on the play)
-1 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Stoneforge Mystic
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Rest in Peace
+2 Back to Basics

Grixis Delver
-4 Force of Will
-1 Council's Judgement
+2 Back to Basics
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Zealous Persecution
+1 Rest in Peace

UWr Miracles
-4 Swords to Plowshares
+2 Pithing Needle
+2 Council's Judgement

Mentor Miracles
-1 True-Name Nemesis
-1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Force of Will
+2 Pithing Needle
+1 Zealous Persecution
+1 Council's Judgement

Death and Taxes
-4 Force of Will
-1 Spell Pierce
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Zealous Persecution
+2 Pithing Needle
+1 Council's Judgement

Sneak and Show
-1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-1 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Stoneforge Mystic
-1 Council's Judgement
+3 Meddling Mage
+1 Flusterstorm

Storm Combo (ANT and TES)
-4 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-1 Council's Judgement
-2 Jace, the Mind Scultpor
-1 Lingering Souls
+3 Meddling Mage
+2 Pithing Needle
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Rest in Peace
+1 Flusterstorm

Eldrazi Stompy
-1 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Stoneforge Mystic
-1 Spell Pierce
-2 Lingering Souls
+2 Back to Basics
+1 Supreme Verdict
+2 Council's Judgement

Finished 21st out of 118 players at SCG Milwaukee. Ran good ol' UWr Stoneblade to a 5-2 record. Mini tourney report all from memory, so I apologize for any errors. Here's the 75 I registered (not too different from the list I posted a page back):

MAIN

1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Engineered Explosives

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Council's Judgment
4 Ponder

1 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

1 Karakas
1 Plateau
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
3 Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand

SIDE

1 Blood Moon
1 Pyroclasm
3 Pyroblast
2 Wear // Tear
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Containment Priest
2 Rest in Peace
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique

ROUND 1: Lands (2-1)

Game 1: I'm on the play and keep hand of Stp x2, Bolt, Brainstorm, and lands. I land, pass. He drops Mox Diamond and I'm basically praying that he's Aggro Loam and not Lands... he discards a Tabernacle to his Mox Diamond. Ugh. I "aggro" him down to 5 with Bolt and Snapcaster beats, but he eventually makes a 20/20 after much dredging and Loaming.

Game 2: I somehow am able to get Jitte + TNN online and just bash face until he dies, never being able to assemble anything to stop me.

Game 3: I keep hand of 2 lands, 5 cantrips. We both durdle for a few turns, me cantripping and him dredging. I play a Blood Moon turn 5 and that pretty much seals the game as I'm able to play Magic and he is not. Pivotal lucksack moment was when he dredged away 2 Krosan Grip on an earlier turn.

ROUND 2: Shardless BUG (0-2)

Game 1: This game played out textbook Shardless vs. Blade. He answered everything I did and his 2-for-1's eventually wore me down until I could do nothing.

Game 2: Much more of a game. We grind FOREVER, trading card for card, but eventually he resolves an Ancestral Vision and that allows him to answer my back-to-back TNN with back-to-back Toxic Deluge. He beats me with Goyf + Tar Pit for a couple turns, then just Tar Pit when I don't have an answer. This matchup is rough.

ROUND 3: Imperial Taxes (2-1)

Game 1: My opponent opens with t1 Plains, Vial, so I naturally put him on D&T. I'm able to keep board clear with Stp and Bolt on his white dudes. Eventually, he taps Vial at 3. I say "ok" and he puts in Magus of the Moon out of fucking nowhere (2 Plains + 1 Wasteland only thing I see on his side). I promptly get locked out of the game and lose. I was likely one of many "gotcha" wins he scored.

Game 2: I boarded in a metric ton of cards and this game wasn't even close. Pivotal moment was when I was able to EE @ 1 his Mom x2 and Vial @ 1. He never recovered.

Game 3: I 1-for-1'ed his board with spot removal and eventually just played TNN, into SFM Jitte. Jitte eventually equipped to TNN and that was all she wrote. I feel very favored in D&T matchup, so didn't feel bad about the Magus loss.

ROUND 4: Miracles (1-2)

Game 1: Super grindy game where he never sees Top or Counterbalance, but able to clear my board with Terminus hardcast (yes, it went verrry long). He finally found an Entreat I had no answer for and I died.

Game 2: I found Gideon and he had no answer to it. Immediately crushed face.

Game 3: Even grindier than game 1, haha. I'm able to answer his bombs (Pyroblast his Jace, catch his Counterbalance with Tear), but he answers mine too (C Judgment on my Gideon, Terminus everything) and I eventually die to a Clique that slips through my counter/removal wall. Opponent was very good, technically sound player and we both enjoyed the match a lot.

ROUND 5: Burn (2-0)

Game 1: I keep removal, SFM and lands on the play. He opens with t1 Swiftspear and I smile inside as this is a fantastic matchup. I eventually get an active Jitte and he loses. Life total was safe whole game.

Game 2: This was a nail biter as he boarded in Exquisite Firecraft. Wow, that card is brutal. I stabilize at 6 life with a TNN + Jitte. He topdecked a Sulfuric Vortex, but I have the Wear/Tear for it and that's game.

ROUND 6: Jund (2-0)

Game 1: I initially put him on Elves, and kill his two DRS early, then resolve SFM Jitte. He then drops Liliana, makes me sac SFM and I'm mildly salty for putting him on Elves. I then topdeck TNN and that was pretty much game as he has no way to kill TNN with a Liliana at 1. Such a swingy two turns, haha.

Game 2: He gets me down pretty low, but runs out of cards. I draw Gideon and stabilize with TNN in play. TNN swings while Knight Ally token holds off his 5/6 Goyf. He scoops when I point out that I'm going to -4 Gideon to anthem my TNN to swing for lethal 4.

ROUND 7: Pox (2-0)

Game 1: I know my opponent and he's (a.) very good and (b.) playing a deck I'm highly unfavored against. He's on the play and drops Mishra's Factory, passes. Whew. I lay fetch, pass. He drops Urborg and casts Hymn. Hymn gets Snared. I t2 SFM Batterskull. He gets his t3 Liliana Forced and that's the game as he's never able to recover. Him not having t1 discard spell was verrrry lucky, omfg, haha.

Game 2: Super grindy as he has Top for most of game. Near end, I'm at very low life total due to single Factory beats. I'm able to get SFM in play with Jitte. I then draw Containment Priest and now have an equipped SFM + Priest vs his 2 Factory. He's Topping for like 4 turns and miraculously doesn't find 1 of a dozen outs (I'm topdecking and have just Island + Plains in play). He swings with his two Factory into my SFM Jitte @ 2 + Priest. I declare blockers, then give the Priest's Factory -1/-1 and give my SFM +2/+2; I don't think he thought I was going to do that as he was regretful afterwards. I got super lucky here.

5-2 is good for 300 prize wall tickets aka $75 store credit. Happy with finish as I didn't have any major misplays and the deck was reasonably positioned for the expected meta (Midwest LOOOOVES fair durdle).

EDIT: Esper Stoneblade finished 2nd at SCG Milwaukee, losing to Grixis Pyromancer. Keep Blade alive!

Guys, I need help understanding this list better. MKM Tournament, 410 players. Props to the pilot!

FELIX HÖFLER – ESPER STONEBLADE


Lands (20)

3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas

Instants (15)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
1 Spell Snare
1 Diabolic Edict

Sorceries (10)
3 Ponder
2 Lingering Souls
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Vindicate
2 Thoughtseize
1 Supreme Verdict

Planeswalkers (3)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

Creatures (13)
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 True-Name Nemesis
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Baleful Strix
1 Horned Turtle

Artifacts (2)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Total: 63 cards main



SIDEBOARD:
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Meddling Mage
1 Containment Priest

1 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm
1 Disenchant
2 Spell Pierce
1 Zealous Persecution

1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

1 Rest in Peace

1 Toxic Deluge
1 Cabal Therapy

Source: http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/cov...acy/#top8decks

I'm very glad to see the deck performing, but obviously such a list is unusual. I can understand someone having a pet card, in this case, Horned Turtle. Sure, it isn't optimal,but it's a pet card. It has no rational behind it. However...

Sorin, the four copies of 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, a singleton Baleful Strix, only 20 lands, 63 cards main, 3 copies of Ponder, Diabolic Edict, Spell Snare over Spell Pierce...

What to think about that?

Hey, I am the guy who played this deck. I will try to answer you some questions.

First I would like to mention that I didn't play the whole playset of jace, vryn's prodigy, I just played 1, it is just a little typo.
The maindeck was 60 cards.

Horned turtle is just my pet card so I decided to maindeck this little guy to give him an appearance at a big tournament..
I mean he is boltproof and blocks thalia all night long.

I like to have a nonblue planeswalker in the maindeck vs the miracle players and vs the many grindy matchups.
So I chose between elspeth and sorin.
Maybe Elspeth is a little bit stronger but sorin is a bit easier to cast.

Another thing is that i really love 1offs and hate being flooded.
So i cut down on lands and play the 3 ponders so I always find enough lands and of course the many 1offs.

Don't understand me wrong, the deck is far away from being perfect, I just had a good run this weekend and played the cards i wanted to play.

You don't have auto wins with this deck but you have the tools to beat everything in the field, so just keep the blade alive ;)



Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

Grats on your finish!

I appreciate what you already answered. I still have a few questions if you can answer those:

1) Would Painful Truths compete with Ponder? 1 vs 3 CMC is a huge difference, but Painful Truths is such a powerful card that could ''fix'' your 1-of/mana problems just like Ponder. I would guess that Ponder allows you to fix earlier mana problems, which might be what you feel is the most needed, at least over the late game card advantage, but I would like to know what role would have Painful Truths in your deck, and why it didn't make the cut.

2) What's the upside of Toxic Deluge in the sideboard over an additional Supreme Verdict? On top of my head, I don't really see a match-up in which the one turn you gain is a better benefit than being uncounterable, and I'm not even talking about the lifeloss or the fact that some creatures could still live despite the Toxic Deluge. If it's a color issue, did you have many situation in which colors really were a problem? I play more lands than you do, but never faced colors issues, despite Wasteland & company. I'm curious about your experiences and what lead you to this choice.

3) How is it to play Engineered Explosives without Academy Ruins?

4) Diabolic Edict. Was it any useful, do you have any stories to share regarding the card? What is it for?

Thanks again, it's very inspiring to see a Blade list succeed!