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Cutting Adept is a REALLY bad idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by chysn
He is probally the best merfolk, or close second to Lord of atlantis. It creates good card advantage and you really need it. if you want to run commander, either cut on the flex slot (jitte echoing truth) or sovereign.
well i guess you could go back to the debate on wether or not play with cold-eyes selkie for card advantage then
I've never understood this idea that Silvergill Adept is bad. I've tested the mono-blue version of this deck a shit-ton (although less so recently), and I can probably count on two hands the number of times I've actually had to spend :4::u: to play him, which seems to be the most common complaint. I very seldom find myself without either a Vial on :2: or a Merfolk to reveal, and I tend to play about 22 Merfolk in the deck, which is basically the standard number. His drawback can be a little annoying, but it hardly ever forces you to give away information that is actually going to turn the game in your opponent's favor (I don't think I've been screwed over by the reveal in this way ever), and if you plan ahead just a tiny bit, you should find it pretty easy to have a fish to reveal when you need one.
Bottom line: He's a Merfolk, he's aggressively costed, and he cantrips for fuck's sake. How is this bad?
I'm not defending cutting Adept, but... While it might not be necessarily bad, it won't harm you to test to see if something's better, right?
I'm all in favor of testing Coralhelm Commander. At first blush though, what I would do is keep what I consider the core of the creature package (4x each of Cursecatcher, Silvergill Adept, Lord of Atlantis, and Merrow Reejerey), and do something like a 3-3 or 2-2 split with Coralhelm Commander and Merfolk Sovereign, or something along those lines.
I think he's a good card, but he's too mana-intensive to make me want to play him as a four-of. I think 2-3 copies will be enough, because he's better in the mid-to-late-game anyways.
However, all this being said, what I would like to see printed the most to help this deck is another dope Merfolk for :u:, and it makes me sad that they still haven't given us any one-drops better than Tidal Warrior as something to run alongside Cursecatcher, even after all these years since Stronghold was printed. Lol.
he is definitely worth mentioning at least b/c a resolved moat does mean game over unless you have flyers/echoing truth
I thought that was one of the best cards in the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by chysn
If i was to run a mono u merf list i would somehow run something like this.
Lands [20]
13 island
3 wasteland
4 mutavault
Creatures [21]
4 cursecatcher
4 silvergil adept
4 lord of atlantis
3 coralhelm commander
4 merrow reejerey
2 merfolk sovereign
Utilities [19]
4 aether vial
4 standstill
4 force of will
3 daze
1 spellsnare
3 psionic blast / stifle
I have always found cold eyes is something that improves favorable match ups and weakens poorer match upsQuote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut056
I dont believe that we can run both Jitte and Coralhelm mainboard. Both are sorcery speed mana sinks, IMO its one or the other.
edit: If coral starts to become main stream- sideboarding threads of disloyalty is almost a must
At this point, I'm not going to strongly advocate for Coralhelm Commander in the Adept's place, but I don't see Silvergill Adept as particularly sacred.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaul Zan
I appreciate that she draws a card, and I might find that I really miss that. But here's my thought process: in games where I get the nuts draw with a great creature and permission balance, a two-power creature is as good as another. But in games where cards are traded and my opponent stabilizes, I'd rather have Coralhelm Commanders off the top.
Silvergill Adept needs the card draw because she can't do much alone. If you draw a lord with her, you have to commit that lord to the board. The Commander's level up cost is aggressive, so you can more easily hold back against mass removal. And he could make Standstill better by increasing the number of board positions that make it playable (for example, with a Kird Ape on the other side). And then there's Engineered Plague, which makes Adept utterly pointless. Card advantage is more than "draw a card."
I might be totally wrong about all this stuff, but it's certainly not going to do me any harm to try it.
I posted the following section on MTGSalvation. Hopefully it will make it past the "which bad island maker to play" discussion they are having. People are talking about Commander. I've been comparing him to Sovereign. I choose this because he seems the weakest card of the bunch.
+The casting cost at 2 is much better then the casting cost at 3.
-The casting cost at 2 also opens it to spell snare.
+The casting cost at two means its easier to slip under standstill then the sovereign.
+He comes down faster then Sovereign.
+On his own, he plays better under Standstill.
+He plays better with others, under Standstill.
//A quick aside, Jitte is not the card for the deck, but, if you want to keep Jitte this point is less relevant.
+He gives us something to do with our mana when we have nothing else to do.
+Better post wrath top deck then Sovereign.
+Better then Sovereign against Moat.
-You can sink 4 mana into him and he gets Pathed/Swords.
-You can sink mana into him and he gets bolted.
+Flying, for most purposes, is unblockable.
//Tombstalker, Spellstutter Sprite, Vendellion Clique, Sower of Temptation, Trygon Predator, Eternal Dragon (?) are all played, or semiplayed creatures with flying. Notice that against the more commonly played creatures with flying most are running Islands.
This is why lists are bad. Which of these is more common/relevant in the current metagame? I hope that you're not implying that they're equal. Also consider that all decks with Moat are either running Swords or cards like Elephant Grass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avier
You're also missing a lot of pros and cons that should be mentioned.
Sovereign is a good card early, particularly this matters vs. Combo. Basically he comes in with some of his power on Haste because he pumps.
Sovereign can be vialed in at 3, which is more efficient than vialing something in at 2 (assuming you have a second two drop, it's much more efficient and gives you flexibility instead of forcing you to use the Vial at upkeep).
Sovereign can be vialed in and used to save your Merfolks from Burn or as a combat trick, but this guy can never effect combat off of Vial (except as blocking like a bear).
An important pro is that he can get to 4 toughness on his own.
It's also worth noting that he synergizes very poorly with Jitte and very well with Kira who, in turn, synergizes poorly with Jitte.
Kira and this guy both fly, so you can apply a flying clock, and her ability makes it hard for your opponents to take advantage of you investing all of your resources into a single point that's vulnerable to removal.
I never expected this to be a extensive list. I failed to copy and paste the part mentioning how more insights would be helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
Neither are great against combo. The hastey pump is relevant however.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
The thing is, we never want Vial at three. Yea, you save mana by having it at three, but we have far more cards at the two drop slot. This gives us another card at that slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
Excellent point. I think this might be the most important.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
This is another good point. Also of note is at three power he cannot be hit by Lavamancer which was relevant during testing today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
As I noted above, if your playing Jitte then theres some tension. However, I have stated previously that I think Jitte is not the correct call, and that Kira is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
Again, we can agree that flying is good. The commander and Kira seem to be a good package.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
coralhelm should not be compared to sovereigns, it should be compared to Wake Thresher. I'm to lazy to make a list right now because i have some beer to take care of, but its way better.
Here's what you need to realize about Coralhelm.
One Coralhelm is better than one Merfolk Sovereign.
One Coralhelm is worse than one of every other Merfolk in your deck.
Two Coralhelms is worse than two of any other pair of Merfolk in your deck.
Therefore, if you were running the standard 20 Merfolk before, you should now be running 2-3 Sovereign and 1-2 Coralhelm. You do -not- want to be running 3-4 of this guy. You can't support having two down at once. And it's also worth noting that this guy, unlike all the others, can't do stupid pet tricks with Aether Vial.
In testing, if I only have one merfolk out, I want it to be him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
This is true. However, I keep finding myself wanting to have at least one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
In testing, this hasn't mattered too much. The scenario is that you have two lords out to make them all 3/3's and they attempt to bolt. You can vial in a guy and keep them alive. True, thats very good. But if you had two lords in play and a third in hand, you were going to win anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
One thing to note in my testing is that is obvious if you think about it. Hes not playing well with Daze. There are times where hes almost there and then doesnt get there because you returned an island. Just something to keep in mind.
That and that this whole discussion is probably irrelevant because splashing green + Goyf is about 10 times better.
I was thinking something like what Tacosnape says. He is definitely not a 4-of.
3 lords != win. I don't know where you got that formula.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avier
Here is my current list:
Land
13 Island
3 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
Creature
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
2 Merfolk Sovereign
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Coralhelm Commander
Instant
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Rushing River
3 Stifle
Artifact
4 Aether Vial
Enchantment
4 Standstill
Sideboard
3 Submerge
3 Spell Pierce
2 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Back to Basics
Coralhelm needs UU, Sovereign 1UU, Lord UU and Threads 1UU, so in my opinion I need 13 Island, my question is:
Should I play 3 Mutavault and 4 Wastelands or 4 Mutavault and 3 Wasteland?
Do you have any other suggestions?
You could always try cutting Rushing River for the fourth Mutavault, I think it would probably be worth it actually. Stifle is definitely a meta call, and you're the only one who can say whether or not it's still good in your meta, but it can be kind of dead I've found. The sideboard seems pretty standard-fare. I'm guessing there are a lot of nonbasics in your meta, since you're using Stifle and Back to Basics.Quote:
Originally Posted by schniggaz
In unrelated news, now that Reanimator is somewhat of a big deck, it seems to me like Gilded Drake might be worth reevaluating, especially in versions of the deck that run a few bounce spells somewhere in their 75. Thoughts?