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Yeah Steppe Lynx is an idea, however the Lynx is a card I hate to draw, I onlw like it when it is in my opening hand. I will give it a try though. If the Lynx dosent work out I'll go with Kird Ape or Loam Lion.
Yeah Price of Progress feels like a sideboard card atm.
First time poster on the Zoo thread, but I've been enjoying the discussion so far.
I played in my local GPT yesterday in a crowd of 20 players and came in first for the 3 byes that I wanted :) I am a regular TES and Team America enthusiast but decided I was going to go with consistency this time around. We don't get a lot of sanctioned Legacy in the area so I wanted to target the lowest cost decks which would be out in full force - Merfolk, Goblins etc. I expected Welder Servant/Affinity as well so I geared for those in my SB.
The format was 5 rounds, then cut to T8 playoff.
Small Zoo a.k.a. "Cat Power"
My maindeck was as follows:
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Pridemage
4x Goyf
3x Lavamancer
3x Knight
3x Steppe Lynx
2x Loam Lion
2x Sylvan Library
4x Bolt
3x Path
4x Chain Lightning
2x Fireblast
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Savannah
2x Taiga
3x Plateau
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Arid Mesa
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Mountain
1x Wasteland (in place of a spell slot ... good for the surprise value.)
Sideboard:
3x Pyroblast
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Gaddock Teeg
3x Null Rod
3x Krosan Grip
1x Karakas
Round 1 vs. friend playing Rock - WIN
Game 1 I got a quick start and kept the pressure on. I ended the game at 22 life. I surprised him with Knight fetching Wasteland blowing up his Maze of Ith to punch through the last bits of damage.
Game 2 he got the jump on me and Knight beats won it for him. He gets three Wastelands on me.
Game 3 his life totals showed 16, 11, 6, 1, 0. Again, I had a quick start.
Round 2 vs. Goblins splashing Black for Weirding/Perish - WIN
Game 1 he mulls to 5 and I manage to take it.
Game 2 I do 13 damage to myself with Sylvan Library/Canopy and he price of progresses me to tie the game, when he got way behind in the attrition battle.
Game 3 He overruns me.
Game 4 We start with time called. I had nuts draw with Nacatl, Pridemage and 3 burn spells. Life totals showed 17, 14, 11, 5, 0 so I pulled it through in 5 turns.
He mulled to 5 on every game so it sucked not playing a fair game of Magic with him. He was good natured about it, though.
Round 3 vs. Affinity - LOSS
Game 1 he kills me super fast with Plating. I pathed some guys but they kept coming!
Game 2 I get out Null rod and stabilize at 5 life. He reads Null Rod and does a double take. He does make a go for it but he's unable to play anything because the Rod turns off his Seats/Furnaces/Opals.
Game 3 was very interesting. He Thoughtseizes me and takes Chain Lightning over Null Rod in my hand after I play T1 Nacatl. That proved to be the right play as he equips Cranial Plating on the Ornithopter and once it's equipped the Null Rod doesn't help me. He beats me with a 5 power flying Ornithopter while my landlocked troops couldn't race him.
Round 4 vs. Natural Order Bant - WIN (BY FAR THE TOUGHEST MATCHUP OF THE DAY)
Game 1 I race his Progenitus by being aggressive and bolting through his Goyf wall.
Game 2 I couldn't race his Progenitus fast enough.
Game 3 I curve out perfectly and land Mr. Teeg on the board too. He tries to play defense with War Monk but my Pyroblast cleared the way.
Round 5 vs. Canadian Thresh - INTENTIONAL DRAW
So on to the Top 8 playoff...
Round 1 vs. Canadian Thresh - WIN
Game 1 he's stuck on a one lander. He stifles / counters my stuff but I get there eventually.
Game 2 I do what Zoo is supposed to do. I punch through 3 Goyf walls with Burn/Lavamancer and blow up his Basilisk Collar.
Round 2 vs. Merfolk - WIN
Game 1 was a race. He would have swung for Lethal but I go for the Path on his Reejerey, he counters. I then Fireblast Reejerey and it goes through. I win next turn on double Goyf swing for the win when I'm at 2 life.
Game 2 I blew up all his little fishies and started beating with Knight. The pressure was too much and the only thing I didn't draw were the null rods (I thought he may have Jitte as well as Vial, turns out he didn't run Jitte).
Round 3 - Final vs. sdematt playing BW mid-range/Rockish build - WIN
Game 1 I get the jump on him. I keep Bob off the table, and Path his Revoker after he names Pridemage. On 8 life he reveals abyssal persecutor with Bob, I fireblast him on his draw step.
Game 2 My opening hand was nutty - 2 bolts, 2 nacatls, pridemage etc. He sticks e-Plague naming Cat, and also Wasteland some of my lands. I stick Loam Lion, Lavamancer and they go the distance while he gets mana flooded. Sided in Null Rods as he was playing both Top and Jitte, but I didn't draw any of them and he also didn't draw any of his.
Felt kinda choked for my friend (sdematt on these forums) as Game 2 he was completely flooded and I would have loved for the games to be closer. But I'm stoked because we are both planning to go to the GP and we finished 1-2. Even before we played, I was super happy that one of us on the same team was going to get the byes.
Learnings
- Zoo is great for a player like me who makes a fair number of mistakes. It doesn't punish play errors too severely, and was super consistent as a whole.
- Perish got played on me a total of 6 times in the tournament. I still did OK due to not running out too many green guys and having the Loam Lion/Lynx backup.
- Running on voltron's advice, I replaced PoP with Sylvan Library and loved it.
- The random 1x Wasteland punished players for fetching irresponsibly ;)
- Fireblast was great for the added reach, although I sided it out in a number of matchups where going all-in wasn't going to help.
- GSZ would have been awesome even in Small Zoo, to fetch Teeg and Nacatl when I needed them.
- I feel that Null Rod was pretty awesome. Since I'm not running Jitte, it really doesn't harm me and shuts off so many different cards - Grindstone, Top, Jitte, Vial, etc.
If you choose to run Zoo again, look into Sulfuric Vortex for your board. Especially wiht the fast builds, it's a house.
Congrats James on the finish! If I had to lose to someone, I'm glad it was you :)
The only matchup I didn't want to play was you, since I wasn't packing the Absolute Law tech in the board ;)
-Matt
Jandax -- I had considered it as one of my SB choices before the tournament started. With 2 tutors it would be good to run just 1 and run it out vs combo. In the end I decided it was more important to answer Emrakul and affinity, but I may give it a shot.
I love it. I've been on an amazing run with this deck, but I'm not sure whether I've been getting lucky or the combo is just that good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidd
Metinks it's evenbetter verses control, as it provides an inevitable clock and you'll likely have gotten some of their life in the mean time. They scramble to answer it while holding your assault off, it puts them in an awkward situation. And its an out to that ass who plays infi-life Clerics and stuff. Zoo just loses to Emrakul, and can also fall quickly to Affinity as well. Just wanted to see other feedback on the card. I really like it, myselfQuote:
Originally Posted by Plague Sliver
Wouldn't be Fight to the Death be a good tech for Emrakul/Progenitus decks? You usually have 1 turn to attack before they ramp you, and they usually block your attacking dude. It looks like a weird tech, tho.
There is also the less narrow/janky Tariff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
Or Wing Shards, so you don't have to sacrifice a creature yourself, and it's harder to counter if you manage to gather some storm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbitar
Wing shards sucks against Emrakul. And 3cc/WW can be tough to keep open.
How is Wing Shards bad against Emrakul? Care to explain?Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbitar
Well, it deals with Emrakul, but Annihilator still triggers. I still think that Red Elemental Blasts and Karakas are the best options here.
I would generally agree with you, but there are merits to trying out other options. First, karakas and REBs aren't very useful against Progenitus (REB's aren't as good because Progenitus is more likely to come out via Natural Order), and second, people using an Emrakul plan are probably aware of and prepared to deal with Karakas and REBs, but probably won't be expecting to be hit with Tariff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jona
Well, there are several problem cards and several solutions, but no definite catch-all sideboard options. Some of the pro's and con's of the cards named so far:
- Karakas: good against Emrakul and Iona. Bad against Progenitus and Terastodon, although that one doen't show up that often. Completely useless against Sneak Attack. Also: attention required when facing Wasteland; so wait until the legendary badass is in the field, and then play and immediately use Karakas before they have a chance to Waste it.
- Tariff: good against basically everything except Marit Lage Tokens, but at the cost of your own fattie (or 2-3 additional mana at the most, but I'll guess that's a price you're happy to pay). Also: most sensitive to Counterspells.
- Wing Shards: good against anything that's coming your way, but Emrakul's Annihilator Trigger wil still resolve. Due to it's storm effect harder to counter, since each copy has to be countered individually. Personally I don't think that double white is difficult to gather with Zoo's mana base, but the amount of three mana is a bit heavy, especially if you want an additional mana to play a Lightning Bolt or something like it in order to gather some storm. Best suited in Big Zoo with Noble Hierarchs.
- Red Elemental Blast / Pyroblast: attacks the alternative for casting the fattie instead of the fattie itself. Good against Show and Tell, but you have to keep one source of R constantly open in order to cast it when they play S&T. Sucks against Natural Order, Eureka, Sneak Attack, and Green Sun's Zenith with a bazillion mana (elves, I'm looking at you). Big plus: it also works against other decks with Blue, like Landstill, Merfolk, Counterbalance, or any other thing with Jace, the Mindsculptor, so it's not as narrow as the other cards listed here.
I guess these are the best options, but ultimately it depends (as usual) on your metagame and your personal preference. At this moment I'm not expecting that many of these decks that I need to use sideboard slots against them, but if there were I would probably go for Tariff (with Small Zoo) or Wing Shards (Big Zoo), since I expect way more NoPro than S&T.
There's also Gaddock Teeg, who stops both Natural Order and Sneak Attack.
So far I've found that a combination of one Karakas main, 2-3 Red Elemental Blasts/Pyroblasts and 2-3 Gaddock Teegs in the sideboard (although you can play Gaddock Teeg main if you're playing Green Sun's Zenith) give Zoo a fair chance of winning against decks packing these cards. Show and Tell included. Additionally, your removal can stall Natural Order in the worst case.
You're right about Gaddock Teeg, it can be quite good indeed, and it can be used in other matchups as well.
They can always use a green-based fetch, search for Dryad Arbor, and cast Natural Order before passing priority.Quote:
Originally Posted by trivial_matters
Mh, that's true. I suppose you can still try to slow them down a bit. But in the long run it won't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Eddie
I had good luck with Zoo this past weekend as well..
"Big Legacy" tournament at Monster Den - Minneapolis, MN
I played this:
ZOO
4 - Noble Hierarch
4 - Wild Nacatl
4 - Grim Lavamancer
1 - Figure of Destiny
4 - Tarmogoyf
4 - Qasali Pridemage
3 - Knight of the Reliquary
4 - Lightning Bolt
4 - Path to Exile
3 - Chain Lightning
1 - Sylvan Library
1 - Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Wasteland
3 Windswepth Heath
3 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
SB:
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyroblast
2 Krosan Grip
2 Tariff
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Reliquary of Progenitus
1 Shattering Spree
---------------------------------------------------
I had been a long time NO Bant player, until Reanimator picked up steam, and I went searching for a new deck. A friend of mine had a Zoo list with 4 Wastelands that looked intriguing, and so I tried it. The original list ran Steppe Lynx and more Figure of Destiny - but I cut that for Noble Hierarch and the full 4 Pridemage and Lavamancer.
The meta where I play is usually Merfolk, Goblins, Junk, with a sprinkling of Blue decks. I have noticed that the combo and dredge players in my area aren't usually that good. I don't honestly think that Zoo is very good in a field of Show and Tell and Natural Order - but there didn't seem to be a lot of those players at the tournament. I haven't seen a Counterbalance deck in a long time, and I think that Krosan Grip is really just overkill now. I hedged that bet by using 1 Shattering Spree, which is mostly to mise a T1 Aether Vial, but also to replicate the dream two for one on a Vial/Jitte vs. Merfolk.
Rnd 1: - BR
My opponent is known for playing things outside the box, and his stream of Phyrexian Revokers and Dark Confidants didn't stand up to well to my removal and bigger creatures Game 1. He got me game 2 with a Bob I couldn't deal with and infinite removal. I got game 3 the same as game 1.
1-0
Rnd 2: - Ad Naseum Tendrils
I really can't explain it, but I just can't lose to this deck. He gets Game 1 as I have nothing to stop him besides trying to burn him out as much as possible. Gm 2, He burns a Burning Wish to get Thoughtseize to take my Mindbreak Trap, but has no other action and I kill him quickly. Gm 3 - He assembles a bunch of artifact mana, Orim's Chants me, but doesn't have enough mana to go off.
2-0
Rnd 3: Team America
I playing against a pretty good friend of mine, but I don't really know how this matchup is going to do. I assuming a lot of mana denial both ways, and tell myself to save my Paths for giant Terravores or Tombstalkers.
I get him game 1 as he gets stuck on land for a while.
Gm 2 he gets me with a large amount of black based removal - finishing with Jace (I think).
I'm on the play, so I sideboard to make my deck as fast as possible hoping to win before he can take over with Pernicious Deed or Jace. I keep a quick hand with Nacatl, Hierarch, and Lavamancer, and finish the game quickly. I didn't get Hymn to Tourached the entire match, and I think that could be a very key card vs. me. I was also able to Wasteland away Green sources in times when probably needed them.
3-0
Rnd 4. BW Stoneforge Mystic/ Dead Guy
I know the pilot is pretty talented, and has been playing this deck for a while. Again, I'm not sure how the matchup goes, but am glad I have 4 Pridemages to deal with Swords and Vials - And Tidehollow Scullers.
He gets game with a quick Vial - Wastleland - Tidehollow Sculler sequence, with a couple of Sword to kill my resistance.
Gm 2. I bring in the shattering sprees. I have to Turn 2 kill Mother of Ruins with a Path for negative tempo, but I can't deal with a non-sick Mother of Ruins. I land Sylvan Library and keep the pressure on him for the rest of the game.
Gm 3. I have a bit of a slow hand, but Sylvan Libary. The library keeps me in the game. I imagine the decks are pretty even on power, but the Library put me just that much ahead. I think I only took 1 hit from a creature equipped in the whole match (game 1).
4-0
Rnd 5. Zoo mirror.
His build is a bit faster than mine with Steppe Lynx, and I know he is also playing Price of Progress. My Grim Lavamancer go a long way to decimate his board game 1, and I don't have to show him my Wasteland or KOTR in hand.
Game 2 is pretty much the same, and again I think I'm favored as I can kill any of his creatures (besides Goyf) with Red Burn, and my guys are just bigger.
5-0
Rnd 6 - ID.
5-0-1
T8 - UB Tezzeret Affinity.
I had seen this list from SCG, but wasn't 100% on what it played. I thought he was straight affinity until he landed Tezzeret. The board a was even up to that point - he made his Darksteel Citadel a 5/5, but I had the path for that and a Bolt for Tezzeret and I was able to take it down from there.
Gm 2. He game out of the gates faster and landed an early Etched Champion, but it was only beating for two - as I was too. I was able to pick off trouble artifacts like cranial plating and Master of Etherium with Pridemages and take out small Artifact creatures with Lavamancer. Paths and Wastelands kept his mana short. We were on par and he hit me with a surprise Thoughtseize which took a giant monster out of my hand. I topdecked Shattering Spree and was able to replicate it once. I was then able to race his Etched Champion
The T4 usually always splits prizes. There were 2 other Merfolk decks in T4, and something I can' t recall.
I got a Force of Will and a Taiga for my undefeated day.
I felt pretty good about my performance, but have to admit I dodged a lot of bad matchups, and didn't face anything too tough.
I always feel strange playing 23 land plus 4 Hierarch, but the deck has proven itself to me a lot. There are so many options for the sideboard, and I am strongly considering Serenity for my sideboard. I think you'll see more Affinity decks show up, as well as random Enchantress decks - and I don't think the Split Second Ability of Krosan Grip is needed without Counterbalance being a major player in the format.
I'm happy I didn't have to bring in Tariff any time, but would like to test it more to see if it actually works vs. Show and Tell/ Natural Order.
You know why you can't lose against combo players, because I think they just suck in your country lol...
Here in Belgium, Netherlands, I don't want to play against combo with my zoo deck lol^^
They know their deck really good and will win even when they make a mistake, otherwise people don't play those decks I think.
But here's a list I quite like atm:
Normally I alsi play normal zoo wich is more faster, and I started testing a littlebit.
and it doesn't matter in the meta now, aggro is the most thing and much combo and control.
your aggro matchup is the same if you play big or normal zoo, the control is even better.
The combo matchup depends on what you play and if you have GSZ, why people don't play this card in normal zoo either,
it's really good and you can get so many things.
My list:
land:
1 mountain
1 plains/forest (I go with a plains)
1 dryad arbor (this one it is wich I'm not sure about, if you got a GSZ he's so good but otherwise :(
1 savanah
3 plateau
3 taiga
2 wasteland (many people underestemate this card, it's quite good with kotr or just if you draw it to)
3 arid mesa
3 wooded foothills
3 windwept heath
spells & creatures:
4 PTE
4 qasali (so good so you need to play against everything and ofcourse now with affinity he's a bom)
4 wild nacatl
3 kotr
4 lightning bolt
4 goyf
2 noble hierarch (don't play more than 2, this is enough)
3 GSZ (so a good card)
3 lightning helix/ chain lightning (I don't like chain because it's a sorcery but it's your own choice^^, I've replaced it with helix and these are much better)
3 grim lavamancer (why play less than 3, he's a bomb vs aggro and can kill and do duch so...)
2 sylvan library
1 terravore (I didn't know it in the beginning but this one is good to ramp through anyhting, also many people chump it to kill it I have seen, it's a big threath)
1 elspeth/gaddock teeg (depends on your meta, elspeth is good against many things but idk teeg is good and you can fetch it with gsz for combo)
1 stp (one spot free, I don't really like those sorcery speed damage so I took this one ** Probably I will make this an extra land but I don't know if an extra land is needed, sometimes I had to mulligan but yeah with one extra land it's almost the same so idk^^, I feel like something hate against combo should be played here but I don't know what)
Sideboard I went wrong on the tournament:
I've played this:
2 gaddock teeg
2 relic of progenitus
1 loaming shaman
2 price of progress
1 ethersworn canonist
3 REB/pyro
1 jitte
1 ghostly prison
2 kitchen finks
I should have been playing volcanic fallout or samthing liek that (firespout), because I've played against some strange aggro things and those would help me win those games, all comments and questions are welcome, ty :)